Central Texas Tournaments

[LeeHarris]

And I'll take some MMs too. I'll play ROB, Ganon, Samus, DK, Snake, MK, G&W, Ike, Fox, or Falco. You get to pick.

 

[TonyDpad]

lets mm a ganon and pikachu.

 

[LeeHarris]

Hmm didn't notice the Halbred Lylat switch.... I'd like to point out that neutral stages shouldn't be able to attack and kill you...
I can only hope you kid about the green greens thing

I think you forgot about PS in Melee and Dreamland. They could cause you die and gave certain characters an advantage.

We debated about it for a long time in the back room. Did you know you can easily smash DI out of the laser after like 5%? The canon ball is ridiculously easy to avoid, and the arm is really really weak. The walk off edges don't last long enough for a chaingrab to death.

Lylat, on the other hand, tilts and ruins a lot of autocancelled moves like Wolf's fair, Pikachu's dair, Ganon's dair, etc etc etc. It also tilts as you hang on the ledge so it can mess up your recovery and you can get stuck beneath the stage easily.

And yes I'm kidding about Green Greens (or am I?)

 

[TonyDpad]

Lee come over and play! NOW!!!!!!!

 

[K1T3]

I think you forgot about PS in Melee and Dreamland. They could cause you die and gave certain characters an advantage.

We debated about it for a long time in the back room. Did you know you can easily smash DI out of the laser after like 5%? The canon ball is ridiculously easy to avoid, and the arm is really really weak. The walk off edges don't last long enough for a chaingrab to death.

Lylat, on the other hand, tilts and ruins a lot of autocancelled moves like Wolf's fair, Pikachu's dair, Ganon's dair, etc etc etc. It also tilts as you hang on the ledge so it can mess up your recovery and you can get stuck beneath the stage easily.

And yes I'm kidding about Green Greens (or am I?)

Every neutral stage in melee gave certain characters an advantage so that is no argument unless it's for saying that no stage is neutral. I did not forget about either DL64 or PS. Neither ever attacked you. DL had a small wind that didn't efffect anything. I have never seen anyone ever have a problem with it aside from noobs. PS had a fall through tree glitch which was easy to avoid and hard to do even when you wanted to. A small point can be made for camping and for semi walls, but they are not permanent and can be easily waited out.

Yes I figured out that you could DI out of the laser the day the game came out. Canon ball is ridiculously easy to avoid and the arm is really weak. None of that detracts from my statement that neutral stages should not be able to attack and kill you. At this point it would seem logical that the stage is no longer neutral.

I was not trying to make a point that Lylat should be a neutral stage, but I'll go with it anyways and at least say that it is more neutral than Halbred. For one it doesn't attack you. The auto canceled tilting issue is fairly easily solved by simply using them downhill (if you know how to di while doing a move it's not to hard) or simply using a different move (all characters that have that feature have at least a few other options available to them) if you don't feel safe moving that cm downhill. I didn't know being able to get stuck beneath a stage was enough to make it not neutral. Best take out all the neutrals except yoshi's. Or you could simply not ledge hop or if you do use back instead of down to let go (pretty much the same principle as ledgehopping from battlefield in melee)

 

[LeeHarris]

I understand your point of view (and it is how I used to feel), but the majority of SBR members feel the opposite and I've talked to many, many players about this.

You say that the stage is automatically disqualified as a random because it can attack you, but you're ok with some characters not being able to use many attacks, strategies, ledgehops, etc because the stage tilts and has ridiculous edges? Yes, any good player knows that the randoms from Melee were not neutral. Obviously FD was better for Falco than it was Marth, etc. But none of them changed your ability to play the game like Lylat does. Halberd's hazards are no different than PS1's walls in the sense that if you really can't play with it up, you just wait a short time until it has passed.

Your point about the stage killing you isn't valid because unless you don't understand the stage it can't kill you.

We need an odd number to use the new strikeout system that all tourneys will soon use, and I'd much rather have Halberd than Lylat in the system. If you have any other recommendations, please let me know.

 

[Hylian]

I understand your point of view (and it is how I used to feel), but the majority of SBR members feel the opposite and I've talked to many, many players about this.

You say that the stage is automatically disqualified as a random because it can attack you, but you're ok with some characters not being able to use many attacks, strategies, ledgehops, etc because the stage tilts and has ridiculous edges? Yes, any good player knows that the randoms from Melee were not neutral. Obviously FD was better for Falco than it was Marth, etc. But none of them changed your ability to play the game like Lylat does. Halberd's hazards are no different than PS1's walls in the sense that if you really can't play with it up, you just wait a short time until it has passed.

Your point about the stage killing you isn't valid because unless you don't understand the stage it can't kill you.

We need an odd number to use the new strikeout system that all tourneys will soon use, and I'd much rather have Halberd than Lylat in the system. If you have any other recommendations, please let me know.

I suggest you edit this, considering FD was much better for Marth then Falco >_>.

Marth counters falco on FD.

 

[K1T3]

I understand your point of view (and it is how I used to feel), but the majority of SBR members feel the opposite and I've talked to many, many players about this.

You say that the stage is automatically disqualified as a random because it can attack you, but you're ok with some characters not being able to use many attacks, strategies, ledgehops, etc because the stage tilts and has ridiculous edges? Yes, any good player knows that the randoms from Melee were not neutral. Obviously FD was better for Falco than it was Marth, etc. But none of them changed your ability to play the game like Lylat does. Halberd's hazards are no different than PS1's walls in the sense that if you really can't play with it up, you just wait a short time until it has passed.

Your point about the stage killing you isn't valid because unless you don't understand the stage it can't kill you.

We need an odd number to use the new strikeout system that all tourneys will soon use, and I'd much rather have Halberd than Lylat in the system. If you have any other recommendations, please let me know.

Marth counters falco on FD, as Hylian pointed out.
I said it is disqualified as neutral. Look up the word neutral and maybe you'll understand why I think that a stage that goes out of it's way to attack and kill you do not count as such. Also, though it's obstacles are easy to get around (the cannon and bomb) your opponent can still throw you into them for a kill. The claw is harder to avoid and can set you up bad positionally. Halbred's hazards are quite a bit different than PS1s walls. PS didn't ever try to attack and kill you. Also the wall only really made a difference when fighting fox and you were someone who didn't fall from the shine, whereas Halbred attacks everyone, it doesn't only attack people when fox is on the stage. Now you could say the walk off ledges only matter for certain characters but that's a little different and still more than just fox.

I went out of my way in my previous post to say that I wasn't trying to say that Lylat was a neutral stage yet you somehow still took me as saying that it was. Again I said it is more neutral than Halbred. Again all the attacks can still be used just fine you just have to DI a cm downhill in the case of a stage tilt. I simply said the characters had other options as well if one is to lazy to DI a tiny bit not that they could no longer use the other moves. I don't see where you lose strategies either, in fact Lylat gives you added strategies with the moving platforms so you can platform cancel and I'm sure the tilt adds some strategies in as well. Also again, as I pointed out ledgehops still work just fine, you simply have to drop from the ledge with back instead of down. Laziness is not a good reason for it to not be neutral. Also again I would like to point out that you can get stuck under many of the neutral stages ledges in some form or fashion. As far as Lylat changing your ability to play the game I still don't really see how. I mean it's just about stage positioning. In melee if you're fighting marth on a platform stage you pretty much had to always stay on the ground, if you were on a platform you were in a very bad position. This was understood and people learned hey don't randomly stay on platforms. Having to learn stage positioning on Lylat seems no different to me.

Also it's fine that you talked to other backroom people about this and all... but that does not seem to bare much relevance unless you're going to go look up those conversations and find the logical points that they made to convince you that Halbred was neutral and make an argument with them. If you simply want to say it's my tourney this is how I'm gonna do it that's fine too. But logically speaking Lylat is a more neutral stage than Halbred, at least with the points I've seen made thus far.

 

[sos246]

what are all of you guys talking about? theres strategey involved in brawl? lollololololololOLOLolOLolOlOLoLolOlOlOL no but seriously stop playing this game already. i mean do you ACTUALLY enjoy it? if so then by all mean's... lololol

what a shame. the death of melee... how sad...

 

[Kirin]

I'm coming for sure!

But in all seriousness, sounds fun. There's a HOBO on that same day in Spring, TX, but this sounds like it might be more fun. Hylian are you going to HOBO 7 or this?

 

[LeeHarris]

Also, though it's obstacles are easy to get around (the cannon and bomb) your opponent can still throw you into them for a kill. The claw is harder to avoid and can set you up bad positionally. Halbred's hazards are quite a bit different than PS1s walls. PS didn't ever try to attack and kill you. Also the wall only really made a difference when fighting fox and you were someone who didn't fall from the shine, whereas Halbred attacks everyone, it doesn't only attack people when fox is on the stage. Now you could say the walk off ledges only matter for certain characters but that's a little different and still more than just fox.

If someone manages to knock you into a canonball for the kill, they deserve 10 e-props. In the many, many matches I've played on this level (and the many I've seen) I've never once seen a hazard come even close to killing someone.

Yes, PS didn't try to attack you, but Halberd doesn't have flaws that allow you to be gimped easily. Consider it a trade off. A slight annoyance for another slight annoyance. If we were to have just gone by "completely neutral" logic for Melee, PS wouldn't have been a random. It didn't matter just for Fox and you know that.

I went out of my way in my previous post to say that I wasn't trying to say that Lylat was a neutral stage yet you somehow still took me as saying that it was. Again I said it is more neutral than Halbred. Again all the attacks can still be used just fine you just have to DI a cm downhill in the case of a stage tilt.

Well, TOs stopped using the word "neutral" a long time ago because no stage is neutral in Melee or Brawl. We're looking for stages that are moderately neutral that most players can agree to playing on.

I know that's what you said. But what I'm saying is, we either need 3, 5, or 7 stages in order to move to the stage strikeout system. The rest of the country is trying to figure out what stages to use and about 2/3 have decided on Halberd over Lylat. It's really a matter of opinion because neither are perfect in the sense that they are "neutral" (but remember, they are randoms, not neutrals). Plus, with the new stage strike system and the current random reset system you can avoid this level altogether if it bugs you that much.

Also, DI a cm downhill? Try buffering a Wolf fair or a Ganon dair AS the stage is tilting and tell me it won't mess you up.

I simply said the characters had other options as well if one is to lazy to DI a tiny bit not that they could no longer use the other moves. I don't see where you lose strategies either, in fact Lylat gives you added strategies with the moving platforms so you can platform cancel and I'm sure the tilt adds some strategies in as well. Also again, as I pointed out ledgehops still work just fine, you simply have to drop from the ledge with back instead of down. Laziness is not a good reason for it to not be neutral. Also again I would like to point out that you can get stuck under many of the neutral stages ledges in some form or fashion. As far as Lylat changing your ability to play the game I still don't really see how. I mean it's just about stage positioning. In melee if you're fighting marth on a platform stage you pretty much had to always stay on the ground, if you were on a platform you were in a very bad position. This was understood and people learned hey don't randomly stay on platforms. Having to learn stage positioning on Lylat seems no different to me.

Yes, of course it gives you new strategies. Every stage gives you new strategies. The key is to see which one detracts from the core gameplay. The entire stage tilts and I guarantee you it gives some characters a significant advantage and some a horrible disadvantage. Halberd, on the other hand, has hazards that target both players. Wouldn't that make it "neutral" in terms of fairness?

Also it's fine that you talked to other backroom people about this and all... but that does not seem to bare much relevance unless you're going to go look up those conversations and find the logical points that they made to convince you that Halbred was neutral and make an argument with them. If you simply want to say it's my tourney this is how I'm gonna do it that's fine too. But logically speaking Lylat is a more neutral stage than Halbred, at least with the points I've seen made thus far.

I'll be happy to show you some of their points. It does have a LOT of relevance considering they are creating the standard ruleset and it is filled with all of the top players and TOs in the entire world. Players like Azen, M2K, Chillin, Cort, etc are all throwing in their opinions and votes while top TOs like the Kishes are doing so as well. In fact last week we did the voting on whether Halberd should be a random or a counter and I think about 3/4 voted random. I'm not going to say, "it's my tourney I'll do what I want" because it isn't my tourney. It's up to the players to decide. Right now 2/3 or so are agreeing with me that Halberd is a better neutral. If there is enough of an opposition to this, I'll switch it to Lylat.

 

[LeeHarris]

what are all of you guys talking about? theres strategey involved in brawl? lollololololololOLOLolOLolOlOLoLolOlOlOL no but seriously stop playing this game already. i mean do you ACTUALLY enjoy it? if so then by all mean's... lololol

what a shame. the death of melee... how sad...

I wrote up a thing a few days ago about how Melee can stay alive. Instead of hosting Melee as side tournaments to Brawl, Melee players should just consolidate a bunch of small events into spaced out large events. If it's a massive Brawl tourney with a side Melee tourney your turnout for Melee will always be **** because the Melee players don't want to travel for a low turnout tourney that is focused on Brawl.

If Melee players can quit complaining and just announce a Melee only tournament months in advance I'll bet you can get a great turnout. I'm not trying to kill Melee and I think it is a better game than Brawl in many ways. The fact is, though, that the demand is for Brawl right now and Melee's 6 year domination of the Smash scene has come to an end. That doesn't mean it has to fade away, it's just not the #1 anymore.

So start hosting some tournaments ;p

 

[Kirin]

Quick question, why are DDD's grabs limited and not ICs'?

 

[LeeHarris]

Because DDD's is really easy and can truly infinite some characters without a problem. Basically the same reason levels with walls are banned.

Also, I've come up with a compromise on Lylat / Halberd. I'll change the rules so that you can strike 2 stages instead of one. That way you can use one on a random reset if you don't agree with it. Based on the feedback I will determine the list for the next tournament.

 

[Kirin]

But, while I don't want to start the IC debate again, it's kind of the same thing. Skill isn't a factor; if it can be done, people will figure out how to do it. I guess just watch the tournament on the 21st, hopefully you don't see people getting infinite-cg'ed by the ICs.

 

[LeeHarris]

You're right. It's not a matter of skill. It's a matter of it happening in tourney. So far, Hylian has yet to infinite someone with the ICs in a tourney (even if it wasn't banned). I've picked DDD and pulled infinites off on Samus, etc before and I would do it again if the occasion called for it. It's not like I had to even practice it much at all. If you can show me a tournament that ICs won by infiniting rather than just being badass, then I'll gladly ban it.

That's been the rule since the first days of Melee. You don't ban something else it's a problem at tournaments. If Hylian wrecks everyone's *** with the IC infinites, then I'll ban it next time.

 

[Hylian]

D3's infinites should not be banned.

It is way to early to ban anything like that. It only works on 5 characters...so what? That just means those characters suck vs D3. It's nothing game breaking at all.

And even if I **** everyone with ICs...that doesn't mean ICG is broken considering I could probably **** the people I own with ICs using G&W.

Does that mean G&W should be banned? No. Roy_R beat my ICs with Marth, which is my favorite match-up. And sethlon doesn't really lose to my climbers anymore, only my GW. You know why? They don't get grabbed.

 

[Kirin]

Just consider it Lee. I'm not going to doubt you if you keep it banned, it's just my (and apparently Hylian's) opinion.

 

[Sethlon]

what a shame. the death of melee... how sad...

Forgive me if I can't get misty-eyed, mr chain-grab-from-0-to-120%

Oh, I found an action figure of Guts when hes just starting out as a mercenary. A-kon is awesome

sethlon doesn't really lose to my climbers anymore, only my GW. You know why? He plays really really really really gay.

Fix'd.

Sadly, theres a houston tournament on the same day as this, so I won't be attending.

(For the record, I approve of Lylat not being a random stage.)

 

[TonyDpad]

sethlon, best joker quote ever!

 

[talkingbeatles]

I'd love to come to this. Barring work on that day, with a job I might not actually have, I'm going.

 

[Kirin]

Sethlon isn't it in Spring, TX?

 

[JonBeBonanza]

Corpus Christi is going... anyone know how far we (Corpus) are from New Braunfels?

 

[LeeHarris]

Sweet. Good to hear dudes. It will be fun and there will be lots of *******, games, and mexicans.

And Hylian: I've yet to see an IC knock someone out of a tourney due to the infinites. I have, could, and would knock people out of a tourney with D3's infinite. It's so insanely easy to use. Yes, it only affects 5 characters but I disagree with others who say that doesn't make it ban worthy. I would have banned the infinite against Ness/Lucas if all characters could use it against them. I believe that if we don't moderately protect the low tier characters the game will lose its luster and it will become boring. It's just a personal opinion. I have a feeling it won't affect anyone either way because if someone plays Samus chances are they are awesome with huge balls like me or they suck horribly and they would lose anyway.

Corpus Christi is going... anyone know how far we (Corpus) are from New Braunfels?

Depends on how fast you drive! 1:45 if you drive fast, 2:30 if you drive normal.

 

[JonBeBonanza]

Sweet. Good to hear dudes. It will be fun and there will be lots of *******, games, and mexicans.

And Hylian: I've yet to see an IC knock someone out of a tourney due to the infinites. I have, could, and would knock people out of a tourney with D3's infinite. It's so insanely easy to use. Yes, it only affects 5 characters but I disagree with others who say that doesn't make it ban worthy. I would have banned the infinite against Ness/Lucas if all characters could use it against them. I believe that if we don't moderately protect the low tier characters the game will lose its luster and it will become boring. It's just a personal opinion. I have a feeling it won't affect anyone either way because if someone plays Samus chances are they are awesome with huge balls like me or they suck horribly and they would lose anyway.



Depends on how fast you drive! 1:45 if you drive fast, 2:30 if you drive normal.

Fast you mean 90?

 

[Kirin]

I would have banned the infinite against Ness/Lucas if all characters could use it against them.

Well the true infinite DDD can do only works on 5 characters. The wall infinite can be used on a lot of the cast, but none of your stages, neutral or counterpick, are abusable with this as none of them have lasting walls. Some such as Delfino and PS1 have walls for a short time, but you can't infinite them because they go away pretty quickly.

 

[Hylian]

You are missing the point lee.

The point is that banning anything this early in the games life hinders the devolpment of the meta-game. The ONLY time something should be banned is if it becomes everthing vs that one tactic.

 

[Kirin]

Anyone ever play Magic: the Gathering? Remember when Darksteel came out and eventually the metagame became that you were either playing a Ravager deck or you were playing an anti-Ravager deck? Yeah, that's why they banned most of those cards. But they didn't do it until the whole tournament scene was dominated by it.

 

[LeeHarris]

You are missing the point lee.

The point is that banning anything this early in the games life hinders the devolpment of the meta-game. The ONLY time something should be banned is if it becomes everthing vs that one tactic.

Concerning the characters that are affected by it, the game does become everything vs that tactic. If I play Samus against a DDD I have to work the entire game to get grabbed ONCE. If I get grabbed I'm down a stock.

It doesn't hinder the metagame at all either. In fact I'd say it advances the metagame. Since the tactic is so ridiculously easy to do, banning it forces DDD to come up with real strategies to win rather than to get off a single grab. This is way different than the ICs.

I've had this discussion a billion times and 99% of the time I am arguing against a ban, but I support it in this case..

Anyone ever play Magic: the Gathering? Remember when Darksteel came out and eventually the metagame became that you were either playing a Ravager deck or you were playing an anti-Ravager deck? Yeah, that's why they banned most of those cards. But they didn't do it until the whole tournament scene was dominated by it.

Darksteel what? There's tons of Darksteel stuff. You mean Darksteel Colossus? Isn't that restricted, not banned? It's been a long time since I've played Magic.

Anyways, it's different. That's like the people who compare Brawl to chess.

 

[JonBeBonanza]

So is NB south or north of CC?

 

[Hylian]

Bum doesn't lose to D3's. And they allow the infinite. A D3 player posted a story about how he had to play Bum and couldn't grab him, because Bum stayed in the air, and used his tilts to avoid the grabs. Bum WINS tournaments beating many D3 players.

Just because you THINK that it is broken, doesn't mean it is. There is proof of DKs/Samus's ect beating infiniting D3 players.
It is possibile. It has not been proven broken by tournament results, and it should not be banned.

I myself have actually used Samus vs D3 in tournament and won. I think the match-up is in Samus's favor, even with the infinite.

This is not nearly as abusable as say...fox's shine spike in melee.

There is no reason to ban it. Tournament results so far have shown that it is not broken by any means. I would be glad to play you Samus vs D3 and show you how not broken it is.

 

[LeeHarris]

DK is an exception to the characters. Notice how I didn't use him as an example. His tilts have insane range and so does his bair. Samus, on the other hand, only has the zair to prevent approaches and that's as useful as Falco lasers at preventing approaches (not very).

Also, what good D3 players are in Bum's area? I'll bet you $100 that M2K could get a grab off and infinite him.

And you used Samus vs who's D3? I don't play D3 usually but I think it'd be good for us to play.

Either way, everyone is arguing for the sake of arguing. No one around here plays DDD and relies on this tactic to win tournaments. If anything I am protecting others from myself because I would gladly infinite every Samus, DK, etc if they were fine with it not being banned.

 

[Hylian]

DK is an exception to the characters. Notice how I didn't use him as an example. His tilts have insane range and so does his bair. Samus, on the other hand, only has the zair to prevent approaches and that's as useful as Falco lasers at preventing approaches (not very).

Also, what good D3 players are in Bum's area? I'll bet you $100 that M2K could get a grab off and infinite him.

And you used Samus vs who's D3? I don't play D3 usually but I think it'd be good for us to play.

Either way, everyone is arguing for the sake of arguing. No one around here plays DDD and relies on this tactic to win tournaments. If anything I am protecting others from myself because I would gladly infinite every Samus, DK, etc if they were fine with it not being banned.

Are you saying that the entire New York smash scene has 0 good D3 players? Bum has beaten Cort...I think he would do pretty well vs M2K.

And please do infinite all you want. You won't beat good players with it. There is no reason to ban something. Saying it's not going to affect anything is no justification. Thats like banning Pichu from melee tournaments. There is no point.

I don't even understand the reason you are banning it.

Adress these points:

1. Tournament Results prove that the characters that D3 can infinite, still beat him.

2. D3 players will not win tournaments because of this.

3. If it isn't broken, don't fix it. Please point me in the direction of the tournament brackets where every character D3 can infinite loses to them...(They don't exist)

4. Point out the masses of people sweeping tournaments with D3?

This is NOT ban-worthy. This isn't even a threat to good players.

 

[LeeHarris]

Are you saying that the entire New York smash scene has 0 good D3 players? Bum has beaten Cort...I think he would do pretty well vs M2K.

And please do infinite all you want. You won't beat good players with it. There is no reason to ban something. Saying it's not going to affect anything is no justification. Thats like banning Pichu from melee tournaments. There is no point.

I don't even understand the reason you are banning it.

Adress these points:

1. Tournament Results prove that the characters that D3 can infinite, still beat him.

2. D3 players will not win tournaments because of this.

3. If it isn't broken, don't fix it. Please point me in the direction of the tournament brackets where every character D3 can infinite loses to them...(They don't exist)

4. Point out the masses of people sweeping tournaments with D3?

This is NOT ban-worthy. This isn't even a threat to good players.

DK counters Snake. You can't use him beating Cort as any kind of evidence to beating a great D3. And no, I haven't heard of any great D3s coming out of NY. Same with TX.

D3 is already probably top tier material. If someone is good with them plus has the infinites down, then yes they will have a significantly easier time beating someone. All they have to do is play normal then when the other player misses one time they lose a whole stock.

You keep using logic and references that doesn't apply to the situation at hand. This is nothing like banning Pichu from Melee. D3 is a top tier character that has the advantage on most of these characters anyway. One grab during the match and they immediately go from having a slight advantage to a massive advantage.

If you can show me a single *good* D3 player that has lost to a Samus, please do. Honestly.

Of course people aren't going to be sweeping tournaments with D3 when you have Snake and MK that are so ridiculously easy to use. That's a silly argument. That doesn't mean that a great D3 player won't win the matches against the characters he can infinite.

Like I said, you're arguing for the sake of arguing. The only way you'll change my mind is to play me with Samus and not get grabbed once the entire match. Banning this does not give any of the 5 characters an advantage over D3 because he is still significantly better. It protects those 5 characters from dropping off the charts due to infinites. I promise you one day an OS like player will rise in TX and will gay everyone in every possible way. I am trying to prevent that gay before it starts. The IC chaingrab is very hard to do and takes skill. If you banned it it would change their metagame. With D3 you just get ONE grab and it is way, way, way easier than any other no-wall infinites.

 

[sos246]

Forgive me if I can't get misty-eyed, mr chain-grab-from-0-to-120%

Oh, I found an action figure of Guts when hes just starting out as a mercenary. A-kon is awesome

lol no johns. brawl is A mentally challanged version of melee.... lolol after playing melee competitively how can you even stomach to look much less attempt to take this game seriously!?!? it blows my mind...
you might as well play tic tac toe or rock paper scissors competitively lol

i mean come on. brawl is more homosexual then doh xelic and smiles put together.(all peach players lolol) and thats reallllllllllllly gay.

but hey its your time and money and effort your wasting so hats off to ya.

as for the guts figure !!!!!!!!! pics i wanna see lol

 

[LeeHarris]

dude competitive tic tac toe is pretty sick

 

[Hylian]

DK counters Snake. You can't use him beating Cort as any kind of evidence to beating a great D3. And no, I haven't heard of any great D3s coming out of NY. Same with TX.

D3 is already probably top tier material. If someone is good with them plus has the infinites down, then yes they will have a significantly easier time beating someone. All they have to do is play normal then when the other player misses one time they lose a whole stock.

You keep using logic and references that doesn't apply to the situation at hand. This is nothing like banning Pichu from Melee. D3 is a top tier character that has the advantage on most of these characters anyway. One grab during the match and they immediately go from having a slight advantage to a massive advantage.

If you can show me a single *good* D3 player that has lost to a Samus, please do. Honestly.

Of course people aren't going to be sweeping tournaments with D3 when you have Snake and MK that are so ridiculously easy to use. That's a silly argument. That doesn't mean that a great D3 player won't win the matches against the characters he can infinite.

Like I said, you're arguing for the sake of arguing. The only way you'll change my mind is to play me with Samus and not get grabbed once the entire match. Banning this does not give any of the 5 characters an advantage over D3 because he is still significantly better. It protects those 5 characters from dropping off the charts due to infinites. I promise you one day an OS like player will rise in TX and will gay everyone in every possible way. I am trying to prevent that gay before it starts. The IC chaingrab is very hard to do and takes skill. If you banned it it would change their metagame. With D3 you just get ONE grab and it is way, way, way easier than any other no-wall infinites.

No, I am arguing because I completly disagree with banning any tactic for any character. It is WAY to early to do that. It bugs me a ****load when people ban things. It's like you want those match-ups to be fair. THEY ARE NOT FAIR. GET OVER IT. Shieks chaingrab made Bowser and many other low-tiers in melee almost unplayable in tournament. No one even considered banning it.

You don't ban things before they happen. If they would of banned wobbling at the start of melee, then we never would of found out how NOT broken it is.

You don't know what will happen. Samus vs D3 MM? $10? If it's so broken, then beat me with it.

 

[LeeHarris]

ok. you sure are getting worked up over this lol

 

[Hylian]

Sorry :/. I just have a really strong opinon about things being banned.

 

[LeeHarris]

It's all good mang. We can definitely debate the topic and once we get the chance to play soon it may change my mind.