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Can't beat Link! :-(
- Thread starter ChivalRuse
- Start date
Superstar
Smash Champion
Cause YOU'RE sick of of those people, WE can say tiers are for queers?
I love your logic.
lol at dark ages. People already have given good advice for beating Link, but avoid the utilt. Pretty much his only combo move against you. DI upwards, you'll get out of most Link combos.
I love your logic.
lol at dark ages. People already have given good advice for beating Link, but avoid the utilt. Pretty much his only combo move against you. DI upwards, you'll get out of most Link combos.
i should have said "tiers are for queers imo because I think people shouldnt stick with the highest tiers to prevent losing"
Superstar
Smash Champion
Usually though, the expression tiers are for queers doesn't mean pick "don't pick good chars cause you dislike losing", it means "tires don exits".
At least from what I've seen used. Most who use that expression mean that tiers don't exist.
I know it was just an english error. Just the shift from we to I made me lol.
At least from what I've seen used. Most who use that expression mean that tiers don't exist.
I know it was just an english error. Just the shift from we to I made me lol.
craiigg
Smash Lord
you complain about every topic being turned into tier discs...
you just turned this into another.
if this doesn't turn into advice for this guy and the link matchup soon im closing it
you just turned this into another.
if this doesn't turn into advice for this guy and the link matchup soon im closing it
Dylan_Tnga
Smash Master
If they have that mentality they shouldn't even be winning with pika or kirby if you've got a good fox or a good anything really.
I dunno, I find it easier to win with falcon/fox than pika/kirby.
Skrlx
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2008
- Messages
- 2,673
no i don't.
this is the first time i've said this.
the last time i was talking about that was when somebody brought that up.
as for advice a couple pages of advice is enough..
Superstar
Smash Champion
Wouldn't matter too much if it's closed...unless he has to ask something else. Doesn't seem like there will be more advice.
By tier discussions, Dair is talking about the ones where we argue who is better, not the existance of tiers or whether they should be followed. Still, off-topic by a large degree, so exact details don't really matter.
@OP: If you want, give me an IM. It's in the Player Compendium. I play Link, so if you want to try stuff vs me I'm up for it.
By tier discussions, Dair is talking about the ones where we argue who is better, not the existance of tiers or whether they should be followed. Still, off-topic by a large degree, so exact details don't really matter.
@OP: If you want, give me an IM. It's in the Player Compendium. I play Link, so if you want to try stuff vs me I'm up for it.
smasher4life+
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Aug 18, 2008
- Messages
- 1
honestly, i have always found that the best way to counter a character is to play as that character and learn their moveset inside and out. I have now mastered all characters in this game and it gives me a HUGE advantage over everyone I play, who isn't godly like Isai but I never play anyone that good, because they stick to a few characters that I can use better than them already.
If you want straight up tactics, use these:
Get 3 throws on Link, he pretty much can't recover unless it is Yoshi's stage. Learn to trap people to get these off, such as using the fully charged neutral B. One thing you can do if you are really good is forward air into the ground and Z-cancel into a Z-A grab that starts immediately after the move. If they are right next to you, there is no escape due to the hitstun of the flames.
Use the down-B bombs. I cannot stress this enough. Learn to set up little barricades with them. People find them useless, but I have enough experience to tell you that they couldn't be more wrong. Spam these as much as Link spams projectiles. Damage will add up quickly if they refuse to be careful in avoiding them. The other benefit here is that you become a small target when laying bombs so they help to avoid attacks and allow you to recover longer distances safely.
If in doubt, use some up-B. It has mad priority and can send him left or right if you know how to DI during the move, which is really simple. Fast fall out of it and get ready to assault him.
Forward smash his face in. Mad priority and quickness make this move a reliable tactic. If you can get him at 0% damage you can use it 2 or 3 times, especially since Link is heavy, before the hitstun knocks him away and then follow up with something like a dash attack or a short-hopped down air and take him to the edge.
If you want straight up tactics, use these:
Get 3 throws on Link, he pretty much can't recover unless it is Yoshi's stage. Learn to trap people to get these off, such as using the fully charged neutral B. One thing you can do if you are really good is forward air into the ground and Z-cancel into a Z-A grab that starts immediately after the move. If they are right next to you, there is no escape due to the hitstun of the flames.
Use the down-B bombs. I cannot stress this enough. Learn to set up little barricades with them. People find them useless, but I have enough experience to tell you that they couldn't be more wrong. Spam these as much as Link spams projectiles. Damage will add up quickly if they refuse to be careful in avoiding them. The other benefit here is that you become a small target when laying bombs so they help to avoid attacks and allow you to recover longer distances safely.
If in doubt, use some up-B. It has mad priority and can send him left or right if you know how to DI during the move, which is really simple. Fast fall out of it and get ready to assault him.
Forward smash his face in. Mad priority and quickness make this move a reliable tactic. If you can get him at 0% damage you can use it 2 or 3 times, especially since Link is heavy, before the hitstun knocks him away and then follow up with something like a dash attack or a short-hopped down air and take him to the edge.
Blue Yoshi
Smash Master
Objection!!!
If you miss a grab, you will gain lots of damage or even lose your stock, depending on your damage. The rule of thumb with Link's, Samus's, and Yoshi's grabs are only use them if you are 100% sure you will grab them. No matter how you try to set up a grab, Link can always avoid it. He can roll towards you to avoid it, leaving you wide open. You'll be lucky to get one grab off.
Down-B bombs are useful... but nowhere near as useful as you make them out to be. If you spam down-B bombs, Link will projectile spam you. He doesn't even need to walk towards you, making bomb-spamming totally useless, and leaving you lagged during the bomb on the ground as an easy target.
Using forward smash is good to surprize your opponents, but if you use it more than once per stock, you will be punished dearly for it. It has good priority (not mad), it is slow, and has enough cool-down lag to be punished. Also, you can't follow up a combo with any move after using a forward smash, so you will not get 2 or 3 hits at 0% damage.
Up-B is useful, as you said due to it's priority, but if you miss, you're going to get punished. It is also possible to smash-DI out of it, so even if you do get them in it, they can escape it and are free to punish you.
Summary: Everything you said can be useful, but they are very situational, or only work if Link is caught off-guard. Some of the things you said (down-B spam, for example) work great on other characters, but are virtually useless against Link due to his projectiles. Avoid grabbing, avoid using down-B too often, and don't use forward smash too often.
Seeing this is your first post, and reading your opening paragraph, you likely haven't played the better Link players. What you said will work on the average Link, but won't work on a smart Link. It will work on some other characters, but not Link.
I'm not trying to be mean or anything... just saying that what you posted will not work against a good link.
If you miss a grab, you will gain lots of damage or even lose your stock, depending on your damage. The rule of thumb with Link's, Samus's, and Yoshi's grabs are only use them if you are 100% sure you will grab them. No matter how you try to set up a grab, Link can always avoid it. He can roll towards you to avoid it, leaving you wide open. You'll be lucky to get one grab off.
Down-B bombs are useful... but nowhere near as useful as you make them out to be. If you spam down-B bombs, Link will projectile spam you. He doesn't even need to walk towards you, making bomb-spamming totally useless, and leaving you lagged during the bomb on the ground as an easy target.
Using forward smash is good to surprize your opponents, but if you use it more than once per stock, you will be punished dearly for it. It has good priority (not mad), it is slow, and has enough cool-down lag to be punished. Also, you can't follow up a combo with any move after using a forward smash, so you will not get 2 or 3 hits at 0% damage.
Up-B is useful, as you said due to it's priority, but if you miss, you're going to get punished. It is also possible to smash-DI out of it, so even if you do get them in it, they can escape it and are free to punish you.
Summary: Everything you said can be useful, but they are very situational, or only work if Link is caught off-guard. Some of the things you said (down-B spam, for example) work great on other characters, but are virtually useless against Link due to his projectiles. Avoid grabbing, avoid using down-B too often, and don't use forward smash too often.
Seeing this is your first post, and reading your opening paragraph, you likely haven't played the better Link players. What you said will work on the average Link, but won't work on a smart Link. It will work on some other characters, but not Link.
I'm not trying to be mean or anything... just saying that what you posted will not work against a good link.
Daedatheus
Smash Lord
Unfortunately this is not true.
In the Samus->Link matchup, the ONLY setup that gives Samus the ability to combo into a grab without any hope of Link escaping is if Link hits one of Samus's bombs and Samus immediately throws out the grab. I don't need to tell you how rare this opportunity will be, and in a situation like that there are usually better options like aerials or smashes. The only players that will get hit by this are those that lack the experience to make the easy split-second decisions that will save them from stuff like that.
Note that at the ledge, if someone is recovering from low and hits a bomb you placed at the ledge, they will usually pop up enough for your grab to catch them. Samus's grab, like Link's, reaches deceivingly low. Experiment with it.
Anyway, forward air (or any of Samus's aerials for that matter) to grab does NOT work and is easily avoidable. I would recommend a forward tilt or forward smash instead, even that is not 100% reliable but much more likely to work.
Chaining moves with Samus is all about predicting your opponent's reaction and punishing it. Samus is good at this with her moveset but her only "real" combos are VERY short, making pressuring with Samus difficult until you have more experience. Essentially, she is a Brawl character within Smash64 (and just like a Brawl character, Samus is the least comboable of the whole cast in ssb64).
Remember that Samus's forward smash is great for shield pressure because it's so fast and powerful. You can switch up the timing of consecutive fsmashes, you can throw a jab/tilt in between fsmashes and predict their movement after that, etc. Fsmash shield mindgames are very useful, especially against Link who has no chance of shieldgrabbing you even if you purposely delay your shield pressure.
Superstar
Smash Champion
It's even possible for Link to avoid most grabs from a large portion of the cast with crap with stuff like spaced fairs [or not missing a Z-Cancel]. Samus grabbing Link? Forget it.
craiigg
Smash Lord
i wasn't talking to you, i was talking to everyone k
Seala
Smash Apprentice
Sorry to say but if you start playing online I'm sure you'll realise you're not as great as you think you are pretty quickly.
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
All aerials have 0 lag time when z cancelled.
Seala
Smash Apprentice
I'm pretty sure he ment while link is still in the air. (Trying doing a dair/uair while high up in the air and you'll see the animations last for ages)
Dylan_Tnga
Smash Master
Daedatheus
Smash Lord
Naturally, but the fact of the matter is that Link's jump is very slow, his dash is slow, and his only immediate defense is usually a jab.
If you catch someone right as they hit the ground, regardless of z-cancelling, you can still hit/grab them. People do that all the time in this game.