Can you Di out of bullet seed?

[S.K.I.D]

Everything i read people keep saying that ivysaurs bullet seed will **** in this matchup (just read the snake matchup and people claimed this) and stuff like that. but cant you just di out of it and make it a useless move?

 

[Retro Gaming]

Sure but if Ivysaur gets a clean hit (Which can be difficult if you expect it and DI before you even get in the stream) you're still going to take like 15-20%.

 

[orange/xd]

Yes, but like Retro said, it will still do around 15%.

 

[Nysyarc]

Yah I can never SDI out of it before taking like 15% at least. DIing out of it doesn't seem to work the same as with other moves, although I couldn't tell you why.

 

[IThinkAboutIvysaur]

Please correct me if I'm wrong but if you get hit by that first hitbox that's not a seed then you have to DI towards Ivysaur, right?

 

[Tien2500]

Yeah you can DI towards Ivy on the initial hit. But the move comes out very quickly so it may be hard if you aren't expecting it. Once you're in it its still about 20 percent about if you smash DI it. It depends who the character is and their size/floatiness. Its not going to "****" anyone but it is useful against heavier characters.

Edit: Oh and in the future ask questions like this in the characters tactical discussion topics. Otherwise the mods will yell at you.

 

[joeyjoeyjoejoe]

Actually, I find that sometimes they can DI towards ivy after that first hitbox and avoid BS altogether

Edit: beaten

 

[Steeler]

it ***** charizard's *** really hard though

 

[Miles.]

Brawls weird buffering makes it so that there situations where if you were imputting something for 8 frames you cannot change what you buffered.

Leading to horribad di at times (see chudat ****** inuis mk)

So often bulletseed still ***** especially fatties.

If someone could di it 100 of the time on the intial hit it would suck, but good thing that's basically impossible.

They wouldn't be able to play well enough always preumptively di-ing bulletseed.

 

[Llumys]

It's impossible to DI out of Bullet Seed. It's a guaranteed 50%.

 

[Toby.]

A lot of moves auto DI bullet seed pretty well.

Shaya perfect DI's (ie takes 0 damage) out of bullet seed about half the time. The other half of the time he takes about 10-15% damage.

If somebody sits down and thinks about ivysaur's options, escaping the bullet seed becomes easier.

My room mate also perfect DI's out of bullet seed a lot...he uses DK.

But then I go to tournaments and everyone else takes like a billion damage and never DI's it properly, so who am I to complain??

 

[Magik0722]

Alot of people attempt to smash DI out of the stream by tapping the control stick in one direction. This is the wrong way of doing it, actually all you have to do is hold the control stick in one direction, that is the fastest way to get out of the stream when you are already caught in it.

 

[Steeler]

Alot of people attempt to smash DI out of the stream by tapping the control stick in one direction. This is the wrong way of doing it, actually all you have to do is hold the control stick in one direction, that is the fastest way to get out of the stream when you are already caught in it.

really? good info there magik. info that should never ever leave the pt boards.

 

[T-block]

what if you did quarter-circles back and forth? i think that might actually be faster than just holding

 

[Bestiarius]

Well, I know you don't get out very fast by smashing the same direction over and over again. My friend who mains Kirby does that and always takes around 30-40 % damage.

 

[Retro Gaming]

I just hold in one direction with the control stick and smash in the same direction many times with the C-stick, and that seems to be the fastest way?

I'm actually kind of convinced that there's a link between the fact that you can edge forward/backward with the C-stick if you use it to input aerials and using it to DI stuff.

I've made it so I jump backwards (Actually moving backwards) with the jump button and the C-stick alone (no attack). Also might be tied to it?

 

[Steeler]

I've made it so I jump backwards (Actually moving backwards) with the jump button and the C-stick alone (no attack). Also might be tied to it?

i think i know what you are talking about. you mean when you initially jump off the ground and try to buffer an attack right? i'm fairly certain that what is actually happening is that you timed the c stick on the frame where the game ignores your aerial buffer input.

i hate when it happens

 

[Bestiarius]

Ugh, I haven't had a Captain Nimrod question this bad in about a year. What does buffer mean again?

 

[Toby.]

When you buffer something, you do the input for the action before its possible for your character to do it. Doing this will make your character perform the action as soon as possible. You can only begin buffering shortly before you would normally be able to do the action.

For example, lets assume we're falling to the ground. When we hit the ground we have landing lag, but if we input a dsmash during those landing frames, the moment we leave the lag our character will execute the dsmash. It's extremely useful.

 

[Bestiarius]

Ok, I do that all the time. I just didn't know that that's what buffering is. I think everyone does that, whether they realize it or not. Like N00bish panic: press every button possible because you just got hit.

Moving on.

So, is it best to DI towards Ivy as soon as you're hit, or to SDI away?

 

[Toby.]

That really depends on where you are. If you're further away, DI away, if you're close, you can DI towards ivysaur.

If you're big its probably better to always DI away.

 

[Bestiarius]

Is it possible that stuff like this could render Bullet Seed useless?

 

[Toby.]

I've been saying that bullet seed is unsafe for ages. The people I play against regularly DI out, taking no damage, a good portion of the time. Bullet seed is great against people who don't have practice in the matchup, but otherwise it can get you *****.

I've been saying this for so long and nobody listens

Like everyone saying bullet seed lols at bowser. My room mate uses donkey kong and he gets straight out of the seed all the time. uuuuuuuugh

 

[Bestiarius]

How long is the ending lag to startup lag? Would it be possible to mindgame somebody with it? Like, you know they always DI out, so you just do the beginning of the move (tap b) and then move under them to hit them with it unexpectedly. Possible? Practical?

 

[Toby.]

Impossible. The end lag is way too long for that. Basically if they DI it they are totally fine and we can't follow it up. It they were out of range for the hit, then they get a free attack.

Think of bullet seed as a tilt that does about 15% damage. If it is shielded or we miss, we always get punished by a smash attack. If it hits it does about 15% and has no guaranteed followups. If it hits they can still DI out of the attack and receive no damage if they are paying attention.

So yeah, its not all it's made out to be.

 

[T-block]

Nah if they DI the first hit and don't get caught in the stream you're probably going to get punished even if you stop the seeds as soon as possible.

 

[Bestiarius]

Well, I know one thing about Bullet Seed: 60% of the time, it works every time.

 

[0^2]

Wait.. People are completely DIing out of Bullet Seed, even if they get caught right in the middle of Ivysaur's bulb?

 

[Magik0722]

nah just the pop up hitbox that appears on the sides, making the move miss completely

 

[0^2]

Jeez... and I thought Bullet Seed was one of Ivyaur's best moves. Guess I should ween off using it.

 

[Kith]

Bullet seed is a great move, you just can't spam it.