Thor
Smash Champion
So... you aren't often going to gimp Link at low percents since nair doesn't realistically gimp Link with good DI... good to know... personally, I don't know how well this works, but since the bombs have almost zero KB I'd either avoid it and try to avoid Samus too (as you pointed out) or just hit it and be ready to tech a follow up while I up+B again - it's kind of like Link's own bomb jump then. If Samus goes offstage and I have my DJ still I also consider going high...Barbie said:
So yeah... gimping Link at low percents is kinda hard for Samus, as I figured earlier. Higher percents seems like she might have something more guaranteed, but it's not perfect...
Doesn't screw attack take like 26 frames to grab the ledge [so says frame data thread]? Link's dair has a hitbox on frame 14-16 - you may see it coming, but if Link's ready, the only option is to tether or perfect sweetspot - so if you hit the perfect sweetspot, it's just Link whiffing and I guess eating a very fast ledgehop nair or fair (or uair I guess). Seems more rewarding on the Link side, but eh, I may just be very lucky when I land it [not like most my opponents are good-tier or anything, and I'm also grossly untechnical, I just try to learn as much as I can and improve so I'll rarely (never) be at a loss at what I should work on].Barbie said:
Barbie said:
Eh... Link gets center stage and he can outpace missiles... Samus gets like 2 a second but Link's blowing them giving himself time to get more stuff up... if he's got powershielding down Samus is kind of screwed, and he can clank out missiles and force a close quarters encounter where if she shoots a missile, she'll eat a nair. That's not easy, but Link's ability to beat out missiles and crap means if he's playing aggressively (which is something Samus kinda wants), he can penetrate her camping (I've never struggled to as Link at least, and I can't think of any high level matches of this MU period, so if you know of one, please do link it). Yes you're gonna get missile camped, but I don't think she can put out missiles fast enough, or safely enough to make this a dominating strategy... at some point you'll corner her if you can break the camping (which isn't terribly hard since all of Link's good projectiles help you do that) and you have to reset. I don't usually go PS anyway - I do so against the random Samus players I find who really like CC dsmash (read: bad/aggressive Samus players [not mutually exclusive or one implies the other, but I do this to both) and tend to go Battlefield or FD. If I can tell they're an aggressive or impatient Samus, PS is great, since I don't at all mind playing the waiting game for 8 minutes.
Incidentally, this kinda proves half my point - you desperately need a good projectile game to keep up with a Samus going ham with missiles (if she CPs you there, since FoD is the obvious ban in my opinion) - but since her supers are only straight and her regular missiles don't home that well, Link is mobile enough to weave around while blowing others up - and Yoshi's has top platform, which Samus rarely wants to be on but Link doesn't mind being on [though it's not a good position], since he can angle rang down and throw bombs downward if he jumps off it - as a result if Link DOES let Samus setup he just has to get to the other platform and then he's a jump away from the top where he's mostly safe from missiles and has to play close-quarters with Samus then.
I only CP'd to PS twice in tournament (if doing friendlies where we have fake sets I go there more to work on it and give them a chance to work on missile cancels if they care to, since one or two I occasionally see practice that frequently) and in tournament I won both times, but neither of them was trying hard to missile camp me - I had to fight through some missiles but they changed strategy when they saw I wasn't getting hit (and to one of them, jabbed a missile) and so they didn't hardcore camp, only use the platform when I wasn't approaching as a means to force me to approach. I am willing to go all Jedi under heavy fire and deflect everything, which is why I don't mind the stage as a CP (plus blastlines).
Incidentally, this kinda proves half my point - you desperately need a good projectile game to keep up with a Samus going ham with missiles (if she CPs you there, since FoD is the obvious ban in my opinion) - but since her supers are only straight and her regular missiles don't home that well, Link is mobile enough to weave around while blowing others up - and Yoshi's has top platform, which Samus rarely wants to be on but Link doesn't mind being on [though it's not a good position], since he can angle rang down and throw bombs downward if he jumps off it - as a result if Link DOES let Samus setup he just has to get to the other platform and then he's a jump away from the top where he's mostly safe from missiles and has to play close-quarters with Samus then.
I only CP'd to PS twice in tournament (if doing friendlies where we have fake sets I go there more to work on it and give them a chance to work on missile cancels if they care to, since one or two I occasionally see practice that frequently) and in tournament I won both times, but neither of them was trying hard to missile camp me - I had to fight through some missiles but they changed strategy when they saw I wasn't getting hit (and to one of them, jabbed a missile) and so they didn't hardcore camp, only use the platform when I wasn't approaching as a means to force me to approach. I am willing to go all Jedi under heavy fire and deflect everything, which is why I don't mind the stage as a CP (plus blastlines).
TL;DR - I may be off-base with stating PS is a good CP for a Link with a strong projectile game, but it goes to show that Link needs a strong projectile game on that stage if he wants to keep up there. And I don't think Link is gong to lose a projectile war there unless he's also hard-core committed to it - I think he can break through it if he uses his own projectiles to break up hers and approach enough to make continued missiles seem risky. Yoshi's has top platform which aids him more than Samus so I don't think he's at a disadvantage on this stage in projectiles either, only that these stages (and perhaps fountain) have the best missile cancels for Samus (platforms move but killzones are still easily the best shape for her, and Link has less room to camp).
I usually dair if I'm reading that they'll nair or up+B me (try to trade), if they whiff an aerial while I'm above them or just misspace an approach (not very common), or I'll try to convert from a bomb or rang. If I think they have a tech or roll habit I'll make that read too.Barbie said:
I don't often random dair, but I do it occasionally when I can ledge-cancel it, since sometimes people random jump into things, especially aggressive spacies : P [or people so eager to punish I ledge-cancel and nair them for it - plebian mindgames of course, but still hilariously effective at times].
But if I ever fight a good Samus [I know that's kinda subjective... the best one in my current area is Ripple, and while he's good at PM I doubt you count him] and land a super random dair and it's on-stream, I'll link the video here and ask if I can make my tag become "Barbie | Thor" for however many tournaments you'll sponsor me for
[or however my sponsorship would be incorporated into my tag, since everyone seems to do that.]
Last edited:
