Looks like ure another one of them, ***** scrubs these days... "learn how to spell" and then u go ahead and write "hypo-condriact"... jesus, how can people be so stupid?
***** scrubs...
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Can the Physics engine be that different?
- Thread starter Corax
- Start date
***** scrubs...
KS67
Smash Rookie
You guys do know it is a error in the physics though...the wavedashing thing.
Linari Sabre
Smash Apprentice
isnt SSBB using the Havoc engine
I was hoping WD isn't taken out though, it makes a great barrier between casual and competitve play. I mean today alot of players can just run around and say "Hey I took on 3 level 9s on smash, I'm liek da best". Then the moment you ask if they can wavedash they'll just say something like "I have no idea what it is, but I probably do it anyway". XD which completely shows where they are in terms of advancing themselves in smash.
Please don't start a flame war.
MookieRah
Kinda Sorta OK at Smash
Originally I thought this was impossible, but after searching online I found this to be the case. A link is here: http://www.havok.com/content/blogcategory/37/78/
There are some things that need to be said when it comes to brawl though. The melee engine's source code was the backbone of the Brawl engine. If anything the Havok engine is going to supplement the melee source code for more realistic physics as well as collision detection and other things like that. To put it simply, it will be melee but with better physics. This can be seen in trailers too, cause the game now has ballistic physics.
As to whether or not advanced techniques will be in or not, L-canceling is a definite. Wavedashing, unless purposefully implemented, will probably not be in unless of course for the small possibility that air dodging into the ground results in sliding.
Suna
Smash Journeyman
if it used that engine then some tatics would be harder
Pluvia's other account
Smash Master
Doesn't anyone even play this game for fun? If you don't like losing, then don't buy SSBB.
I had 3 of my friends over, 1 of them was an ace, the other 2 had only played it once before. They were still figuring out how to B-up onto the land! So the first thing I thought was "Jeez, i'm going to kick their *****, that's a bit unfair.."
So I popped all items on very high, put the level selection to random, and put handicaps on Auto. It was AMAZING fun! Completely and utterly random! The handicaps evened it out, so everyone had an equal fair chance of winning. That's what SSB is all about. It's not a sport, it's a game.
I had 3 of my friends over, 1 of them was an ace, the other 2 had only played it once before. They were still figuring out how to B-up onto the land! So the first thing I thought was "Jeez, i'm going to kick their *****, that's a bit unfair.."
So I popped all items on very high, put the level selection to random, and put handicaps on Auto. It was AMAZING fun! Completely and utterly random! The handicaps evened it out, so everyone had an equal fair chance of winning. That's what SSB is all about. It's not a sport, it's a game.
MookieRah
Kinda Sorta OK at Smash
This is said sooooo much by scrubs that it hurts my face. Listen to me, no good player in melee will lose to some random casual brawl player. There is a lot more than just "advanced" techniques that goes into winning.
This also makes the assumption that brawl won't have any sort of advanced techniques, which also isn't true. L-canceling is proof that Nintendo embraced the previous glitch Z-canceling from SSB. It is not likely that L-canceling will be removed in brawl seeing as how it had survived the transition between SSB and melee. That on top of the possibility of things being used outside of what Nintendo expected, there are bound to be new advanced techniques as well.
There are alot of people who treat it like a sport though, if you've ever attended one of those giant tournaments like NCT2 then you'll get the feeling that this game is almost like one. But thats the beauty of smash anyway, cause it can be both a casual game for people who don't want to go in depth with the game or a competitive game for people who want to continually improve their play. Both ways are extremely fun, I just think the latter is better cause you can improve both yourself and compare against other people in better ways.
Cubelarooso
Smash Lord
Aren't all games/sports like that?
OnyxVulpine
Smash Champion
OMG SSBB on Xbox 360 and/or Playstation 3!
Ahem..
I was surprised to see that Brawl will have Havok. I'm really looking forward to the actual physics this time around and not just focusing on the rest. This game really is going to be a true new gen game if Havok has kicked it up a good notch or two.
I agree. Also, that's why theres a random stage selection menu, so that you won't get stages you don't want. They don't care how the game is played, as long as they can get as many people to like it as possible and to buy it. By the looks of it the physics engine shouldn't really change the game too much, from what I've seen in the e3 videos.
Oh, and playing to win is fun. The thrill of pulling off advanced moves and combos, winning, learning more about the game and delving into it secrets... It's pretty fun
I wonder if the Final Smash is going to be included in tournaments.
Paranoid_Android
Smash Lord
If it weren't for the ZSamus dilemma, I'd assume not, since it more or less guarantees one player a kill, which, since the FS Ball is an item, comes down to luck. I look forward to seeing how the tournament scene handles players who want to use Zamus, but can't since you need to perform Samus' FS to access her. Unless...
Could Zamus be both a Samus transformation and a completely separate character? It's a possibility.
I can see that happening. Zsamus was treated like a completely different character, and it seems like she would be the next Shiek. To make her available only though access of an item wouldn't bode well with professional players, especially when items are turned off.
Oh well, my main will be Meta Knight anyways. Unless they can get ICs to come back.
MookieRah
Kinda Sorta OK at Smash
Final Smash still has a chance for tournaments. Don't let the anti item crowd get you riled up, cause the Final Smash has the potential to add something more to the conventional smash tournament scene without it's presence adding randomness. Unless it presents a HUGE problem to the game and takes away from it (not very likely imo) it will probably be a part of tournament play.
sexysanta73
Smash Apprentice
Wrong. All they'd have to do is remove diagonal airdodging. I'm not saying I want it to be removed, I use it all the time, but saying it's impossible for them to find a way to take it out is pretty dang hopeful.
Rune
Smash Lord
How are items that drop randomly not random?
Cubelarooso
Smash Lord
If someone tries to airdodge into the ground, they could just go through it and fall to their death. That'd be loads of fun the first time you boot up the game...
"Now, let's see if they kept wavedahing in.... WTF!? Maybe this time! This time! This time, this timethis time...!"
Later, after playing Melee for a while, you go back to Brawl, and you're in the middle of an intense battle, but still have the Melee mindset:
"Woops... Oh, crap..."
"Now, let's see if they kept wavedahing in.... WTF!? Maybe this time! This time! This time, this timethis time...!"
Later, after playing Melee for a while, you go back to Brawl, and you're in the middle of an intense battle, but still have the Melee mindset:
"Woops... Oh, crap..."
At some point not liking advanced techs is ok. But to those players who play the game very often and say things like "if you didn't use those blah blahs id blah win because blah" I'd have to fully address to all of them to shut the fx up.
They have to realize that by clouding themselves from "advanced techniques" because they don't think wavedashing and L canceling is fair, they're also clouding themselves from TECHING, WALLJUMPING, DASH DANCING, SHORT HOPPING, FASTFALLING, and a TONNNNNNN of other things that are suppose to be in the game.
I'm TIRED of the whole "oh nozzz this guy is wavedashing, stop it with your witchcraft you nazi noob loser". Spare me the ignorance. If all these people would actually take just a moment of their time to see that playing "advanced" actually just means playing "smarter" they'd poke heads out of the clouds.
My friends Jessica, Geo, and Cristina are the only ones of my close friends that enjoy playing SSBM without advanced techs but they just play to have a laugh and have about 2 matches and then do something else. I understand this. It's not a big deal to them. But people who really play to win and see anything that they don't do and claim it to be witchcraft, and these are the same people who could play SSBM for about 4 hours straight(complaining excessively during of course) is who I have the problem with.
Slightly more on topic. I'd care less if wavedashing didn't come back(but I think it is frankly), but I KNOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWW that teching, walljumping, and all of the actual made to be in techniques will be in. So please, for my sake, show you're friend this post Corax and tell him it's allright to not learn the oh so scary wavedash and L cancel, but for fx sake at least learn how to play "smarter" with the other "advanced but made to be in the game" things.
Ogre_Deity_Link
Smash Lord
I'd love to know what a "nazi noob loser" is....
Just picture in your head Hitler with wearing alot of cheesy colorful wristbands, a pink shortsleave hoodie, and an old man's depleted boner fuzed to his face(always limp).
*bows*
Ogre_Deity_Link
Smash Lord
*dies laughing*
It's almost as bad as "Mexican Jew Lizard..."
(And yes, I got that from VGcats.)
im one of those none advance tech players .when playing against adv. tech players the game becomes different because i have to just to the different strageties.
but when i play agaisnt my own kind im a lot better (geez i hope this makes sense )
so i don't think that adv tech are better they just have different strageties.
so what would happen if the avd tech people were forced to play as we normal players play would we finally have the upper hand or what
by the way it's all without items and different stages not just the flat ones
What do you guys think?
but when i play agaisnt my own kind im a lot better (geez i hope this makes sense )
so i don't think that adv tech are better they just have different strageties.
so what would happen if the avd tech people were forced to play as we normal players play would we finally have the upper hand or what
by the way it's all without items and different stages not just the flat ones
What do you guys think?
Cronius
Smash Apprentice
I think that advanced techniques are so ingrained into our strategies now that it's next to impossible to NOT do them. But, if somehow advanced techniques ceased to exist, the "advanced technique smashers" would still have the upper hand, due to the amount of time they've put into the game learning those techniques. Really, it all comes down to practice.
From a different thread:
My definition of skill is:
The ability to win. If one beats somebody else more than that person beats them, they have more skill.
There you go, a quantitative method of determining who is more skilled.
This means that somebody who uses advanced techniques will generally be better than somebody who doesn't.
1) Better tech skill and control of the character
2) Better mindgames because adv. techs give the player more options, therefore making players harder to predict.
3) Better spacing.
So, advanced techniques not only bring up the technical side of the game, they also up the mental side of the game.
It's so liberal when people try to make everybody seem equal, but that does not apply here. People who don't use advanced techs are not somehow skilled in their own way, they are (generally) simply less skilled.
It does not matter if you say "well that guy would have won if he used advanced techs" because:
1) He did not
2) You have no way of knowing
3) Playing without advanced techs requires less ability to predict the opponent, and therefore somebody who uses advanced techs will generally have a stronger mental ability in smash also.
So, how is somebody who does not use advanced techniques "as skilled" as someone who does not?
My definition of skill is:
The ability to win. If one beats somebody else more than that person beats them, they have more skill.
There you go, a quantitative method of determining who is more skilled.
This means that somebody who uses advanced techniques will generally be better than somebody who doesn't.
1) Better tech skill and control of the character
2) Better mindgames because adv. techs give the player more options, therefore making players harder to predict.
3) Better spacing.
So, advanced techniques not only bring up the technical side of the game, they also up the mental side of the game.
It's so liberal when people try to make everybody seem equal, but that does not apply here. People who don't use advanced techs are not somehow skilled in their own way, they are (generally) simply less skilled.
It does not matter if you say "well that guy would have won if he used advanced techs" because:
1) He did not
2) You have no way of knowing
3) Playing without advanced techs requires less ability to predict the opponent, and therefore somebody who uses advanced techs will generally have a stronger mental ability in smash also.
So, how is somebody who does not use advanced techniques "as skilled" as someone who does not?
Coincidence that I would find a thread such as this.
A friend of mine completly hates that I began to play Peach now. He claims she is the epitome of bull**** because she is too over powered.
He is going to love that article.
A friend of mine completly hates that I began to play Peach now. He claims she is the epitome of bull**** because she is too over powered.
He is going to love that article.
Knifey McStab
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2007
- Messages
- 64
smash has physics? last time i checked, hitting someone more doesn't necessarily make them go farther...
Imspartacus
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2007
- Messages
- 1
Wavedashing is a glitch and should be taken out, it and many other "Advanced techniques" open to the game up to many other exploits that make certain characters litrally unbeatable.
The difference between Melee and Brawl is that brawl will most likley include balancing patches which will be able to nerf and buff certain characters to keep thing's balanced overall.
In my opinion, items should be allowed, the items are pretty much what sets other fighters apart from Smash, Randomness is what Smash bros so fun to play and it's annoying when I am called a "Scrub" because I find everyone clamering for the Pokeballs fun.
Also calling people scubs is ******** anyway, as all tournament players who advocate banning of items or levels or characters are actually "Scrubs", Scrub was coined in the fighting scene as someone who "Scrubs away" at the game removing items, stages, so gg at calling people that.
As long as these "Advanced technique" Glitches stay in the game, Smash will remain the laughing stock of the fighting scene and will probably never be classified as a true competitive game in the eyes of the WCG and other such organizations, you should all really be asking to get rid of wave dashing and the such and add more depth to the characters move sets.
The difference between Melee and Brawl is that brawl will most likley include balancing patches which will be able to nerf and buff certain characters to keep thing's balanced overall.
In my opinion, items should be allowed, the items are pretty much what sets other fighters apart from Smash, Randomness is what Smash bros so fun to play and it's annoying when I am called a "Scrub" because I find everyone clamering for the Pokeballs fun.
Also calling people scubs is ******** anyway, as all tournament players who advocate banning of items or levels or characters are actually "Scrubs", Scrub was coined in the fighting scene as someone who "Scrubs away" at the game removing items, stages, so gg at calling people that.
As long as these "Advanced technique" Glitches stay in the game, Smash will remain the laughing stock of the fighting scene and will probably never be classified as a true competitive game in the eyes of the WCG and other such organizations, you should all really be asking to get rid of wave dashing and the such and add more depth to the characters move sets.
Yes, and using that way of thought, shouldn't items be allowed?, isn't a "Professional" someone who can face all situations and adapt to it naturally?.
WiiPlaya77
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- May 28, 2006
- Messages
- 42
Here...
http://translate.google.com/transla...83q%83b%83g%83X%83g%83b%83v%82%B8%82%E7%82%B5
this is a list of advanced moves straight from the old official 64 site, these are techs that they obviously expect to be used and learned to be an advanced player....now as to wavedashing, I truly believe that it will be in the game in some form, even if it's inputted in a different way, I just think that they'll tell us about it in some way if it is meant to be used, especially since it's already been in Melee and used by so many, they have no reason not to reveal it as a real advanced tech if they mean for it to be.
http://translate.google.com/transla...83q%83b%83g%83X%83g%83b%83v%82%B8%82%E7%82%B5
this is a list of advanced moves straight from the old official 64 site, these are techs that they obviously expect to be used and learned to be an advanced player....now as to wavedashing, I truly believe that it will be in the game in some form, even if it's inputted in a different way, I just think that they'll tell us about it in some way if it is meant to be used, especially since it's already been in Melee and used by so many, they have no reason not to reveal it as a real advanced tech if they mean for it to be.
MookieRah
Kinda Sorta OK at Smash
That doesn't make you a scrub.
THIS is what makes you a scrub.
The term scrub did come from the fighting game scene, but it was referring to button mashers that just "scrubbed the buttons." Your definition doesn't make any sense, because in traditional fighting games you have very very little control over options.
To be a scrub, one is to play the game with some kind of system of self-imposed rules. Usually scrubs will label this as "playing honorably" because they don't use cheap methods to win. So by claiming all these advanced techniques ruining the game, and by the fact that you yourself don't use them, you are making an ignorant statement and thusly, are a scrub.
Smash is the laughing stock of the fighting game scene because some tournaments have banned Wobbling (the easy Ice climber infinite) when it's not broken in the least and because so many members on these boards are immature and will complain about *cheapness* as well as clamoring to ban things. It should be known that the traditional fighting game community created the term "scrub" and they were the ones who laid the original groundwork for all of the advanced competitive play in fighting games today. It's obvious you don't know anything about the actual tournament scene of the other competitive fighters, because if anything, they are way WAY more hardcore than us when it comes to this kind of thing.
You, who doesn't have a deep understanding of these things, are asking us, the people who have pushed the game to it's limits, that our way is wrong on the basis of some organization? Not to mention that you don't know what you are talking about when it comes to the game, but why should we care? Besides, we have an organization, it's called MLG, and it's a national tournament chain. Also smash was picked up by Evolution (I think that's the name of the tournament series, my mind went blank) which is the biggest traditional fighting game tournament in the US. The fact that they have added smash to the roster means we are becoming more acceptable to them.
We used items for a long time, but eventually we decided to drop them. The determining factor was that you couldn't turn off barrels and capsules, which sometimes exploded. That led to a lot of upsets, because someone would be in the middle of an attack and just get KOed. There was A LOT more to that debate as well, and instead of condemning us for the lack of items, why don't you read some of the item debate threads and get educated on the matter.
Before you try to debate why your methods are right you should first understand our methods. Until you do that, you won't have a grasp on how these things really affect the game. You make a lot of popular assumptions by ignorant people, and I'm sorry you have such a big beef with us, but we know this game inside and out and advanced techniques didn't ruin this game.
Also, you act like Brawl will have balance patches, like it's a fact, when they haven't mentioned ANYTHING about it online. You can't debate with speculation, only facts.
Revven
FrankerZ
Well, now we know that Brawl uses the Havok Physics Engine what things do you think has changed now? What will become of the advanced techs from Melee? Do you think L-Canceling will still appear in Brawl like it did in Melee?
The new physics could change a lot of things, especially, Wavedashing since it was an exploit in Melee's physics engine. Think there will be an exploit for it in Brawl with the new physics engine? Will it be removed completely? Or be done in a new form?
The new physics could change a lot of things, especially, Wavedashing since it was an exploit in Melee's physics engine. Think there will be an exploit for it in Brawl with the new physics engine? Will it be removed completely? Or be done in a new form?
Wavedashing makes no character literally unbeatable in any way shape or form.
kin3tic-c4jun-3
Smash Ace
First of all, people complaining about the wavedash need to go here http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=110719, and take a good long look.
Next, this thread is totally speculative. There's no way anyone can tell for sure if the physics will be the same or different.
Having said that, it is my belief based on the videos and pics that they're using the same game engine as Melee, and therefore the physics wil be extremely similar. If they're like any other game company on this planet, they'll simply build on the old and make it better or work out minor flaws.
Don't be surprised if we see the return of wavedash.
Next, this thread is totally speculative. There's no way anyone can tell for sure if the physics will be the same or different.
Having said that, it is my belief based on the videos and pics that they're using the same game engine as Melee, and therefore the physics wil be extremely similar. If they're like any other game company on this planet, they'll simply build on the old and make it better or work out minor flaws.
Don't be surprised if we see the return of wavedash.
MookieRah
Kinda Sorta OK at Smash
If someone who knew advanced techniques was beaten by someone who did not, the guy didn't know what he was doing in the first place. Knowing how to do the advanced techniques is only half the battle. Learning when to do them is just as important.
Seeing how L-canceling doesn't have anything to do with the physics at all, I really don't think they would remove it cause of the physics engine. Keep in mind, they are tweaking it to work specifically for Brawl the way they want it too. It's not going to change the game into something different, it will just have a better physics engine.
Wavedashing is a different story, but it's not really that important.
Littleonetwo
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2007
- Messages
- 57
you ever tell him to hit ^B right after being spiked, or to just jump, it works wonders if you actually know about it.
and for the most part the physics were added to cut development time on the game, not to eliminate glitches, because anyone whos played Halo 2 will know Havok can create some pretty weird glitches.
i can see tommorrows update... How to Play...Super Jumping.
Cant win head to head...theres a real easy way to fix that, simply find a corner walk into for a few secs then Jump... WHOOPS WHERE'D YOU GO?
I feel asleep
Smash Apprentice
my group never complains about that kind of stuff because we all know its fair game (Me, Taj, B, Chaostheory, Blackmamba, Altf4warrior, puma, glide, wobbles)
however, i laugh so hard at random tournaments when people say "WHAT THE HELL!!!" when i dash dance ^_^ all i can say about this to the people who complain.
STOP IT AND EITHER LEARN TO PLAY OR QUIT WHINING!
also, i think shinespiking will be in brawl, simply because it was in 64(to an extent) and melee. as was Z/L canceling.
however, i laugh so hard at random tournaments when people say "WHAT THE HELL!!!" when i dash dance ^_^ all i can say about this to the people who complain.
STOP IT AND EITHER LEARN TO PLAY OR QUIT WHINING!
also, i think shinespiking will be in brawl, simply because it was in 64(to an extent) and melee. as was Z/L canceling.