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Can I PLEASE get a straight answer?

Ogre_Deity_Link

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 9, 2007
Messages
1,445
Location
Central New York
Okay, bottom line.


Does Link suck or not suck? I've gotten so many differing opinions on this I'm confused. One one hand, 99% of the Link mainers are all saying he's improved (PLEASE) and a lot of other people are saying he sucks now.

What's the answer folks? Does he suck, or not suck?

Not that it matters.


Maining Link 4 Life,

Ogre_Deity_Link
 

Wyvern

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 28, 2007
Messages
455
Location
New England
The people who are saying that Link sucks in Brawl are probably the same people who would have said that he sucks in Melee. If you like playing him now, I can't think of anything that changed in Brawl that would cause you to change your mind. I've gotten a chance to play him a couple of times, and he felt very similar aside from the Spin Attack not killing anymore (uncharged, at least) and the arrows actually being useful. It seems like he got a lot of subtle improvements, but it's hard to say when I haven't gotten a chance to adjust to the newness of Brawl in general yet. In any case, there's definitely nothing that would make anyone say "omg Link was so cool in Melee and now he sucks", aside from maybe the up-B spammers. He's probably as good or better, and a lot of the characters that used to destroy him (Falco and Sheik, for example) seem to be toned down a lot, so relatively speaking, he'll almost definitely fare better in the long run.
 

ImpactAR

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 7, 2004
Messages
595
Location
South Carolina
Nice, Wyvern. That was actually an honest and intelligent answer.

In talking to LordHDL, he says all of Link's move have been improved except for the Down Tilt. In his opinion most people are playing him too much like Melee and need spend some time working on new tactics with the new physics.

I haven't play the game yet so I'm not really trying to answer, but rather just bringing up a point.

Link overall has been improved. The real question is how does he compare to the other characters?

I have to agree with Wyvern, also, on people's perspective on Link. Let's face it Link draws in a lot of n00b players who talk to a lot of trash. So we can't really blame the higher level players for having a down look on him and not spending much time on what he has to offer. Notice how little videos there are of Link even though he's the second most popular Nintendo character?
 

ODIN787

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 12, 2007
Messages
220
Location
Trujillo Alto ,Puerto Rico
I have not played the game yet but i believe that he does not suck ,there are those that think he sucks is probably because they are not used to brawls new physics ,Link may not be the best but he is also not the worst ,the game has been fixed to make all the characters as equal as possible ,but pay no attention to those that say he sucks just listen to what you think , if you think he is good then by all means use him and even if you think he sucks try and use him a while and see if his new play style changes your heart , he does not suck for me he is just a character thats not for rookies ,you have to master him in order to use him right.
 

GTR!

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 17, 2007
Messages
392
Location
Hiram, GA
The people who are saying that Link sucks in Brawl are probably the same people who would have said that he sucks in Melee. If you like playing him now, I can't think of anything that changed in Brawl that would cause you to change your mind. I've gotten a chance to play him a couple of times, and he felt very similar aside from the Spin Attack not killing anymore (uncharged, at least) and the arrows actually being useful. It seems like he got a lot of subtle improvements, but it's hard to say when I haven't gotten a chance to adjust to the newness of Brawl in general yet. In any case, there's definitely nothing that would make anyone say "omg Link was so cool in Melee and now he sucks", aside from maybe the up-B spammers. He's probably as good or better, and a lot of the characters that used to destroy him (Falco and Sheik, for example) seem to be toned down a lot, so relatively speaking, he'll almost definitely fare better in the long run.
Listen to Wyvern here and you should be set. The people thatt are saying link suck are the ones who did not take enough to play him in melee. Also what Imact said about his convo w/ DHL once more link mainers get a hold of the game and when it gets releaesed in US alot more sensable information will start to come out about link and his potential based on acctual understanding of the game and the character.

So if you mained him in melee then u should be a little more set for brawl but link is not by far the worst character
 

Skler

Smash Master
Joined
Mar 17, 2006
Messages
4,514
Location
On top of Milktea
You want a straight answer but you won't accept anyone saying Link sucks.

Not that he really sucks, he's just average. Link is average, accept it!
 

HiIH

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 20, 2007
Messages
1,036
Location
Atlanta, Ga
I'm going to reserve judgement, since there's not telling what is going to be found with every character.

I really hope Link is going to be great, but I don't think we'll have any idea how he, or any other characters, will actually stand until maybe May or June, in the long run anyway.

I'm hoping that the buff to his startup lag will help alot. I've been noticing more and more as I get deeper into using him that this is Link's main vice.

Also I haven't watched to many brawl vids yet, but how about his recovery? Has it been thrashed (as it stands so far anyway?) Also, does the clawshot heading for the ledge seem to make it shorter than it used to be? Can it still grab onto places that AREN'T the ledge?
 

Smash-Master9009

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 9, 2008
Messages
206
he is totally buffed! he is great! he rocks! his only downpoint is spin attack!! but its alright...the rest makes up for it!
 

Aleol

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 7, 2008
Messages
374
Location
San Antonio
I've played the game, and I can honestly say that link does NOT suck. He's fast, he's strong, his projectiles are crazy. And has an awesome final smash to boot! He is a little hard to combo with, but in FFA, he's definitely one of the best. didn't play 1-on-1 :ohwell:
 

Zoro

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 9, 2005
Messages
2,610
Location
Orlando, FL
Hes good better than melee link
coming from someone thats mained link competitively in melee for nearly 3 years and actually plays brawl
 

Platanos

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 17, 2008
Messages
61
Location
Indiana
Link looks improved from Melee to me.

Of course, nothing I say concerning Brawl will be first-hand information yet.
 

Mr.C

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 22, 2004
Messages
3,512
From a high-level competitive point of view I will say Link is about the same as he was in Melee I'd say a little better due to the fact everyone was Brawlified and approaching Link is a lot harder this time around. He is a solid character, isn't amazing or too bad. One things for sure , Link must be played differently than a lot of styles Melee had. His projectile game and spacing are amazing. Although Link will never be taking top 1-7ish spots at major tournaments I could really see him up there this time around.

P.S

He still gets gimped extremely easy off the stage.
 

Warriors

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 12, 2008
Messages
283
Link does not suck. anyone who thinks Link sucks sucks. if Link did suck, he would be like Kirby. but Kirby doesn't suck, only his neutral B sucks. Kirby's neutral B doesn't suck, well it does cause he sucks them up and that doesn't suck. So Link and Kirby don't suck...except Kirby's neutral B...cause it sucks people up
 

HiIH

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 20, 2007
Messages
1,036
Location
Atlanta, Ga
so I got a chance to play some brawl last night, and Link has changed a little bit, and I'm still unsure if he's better or worse. I'll try to list each attack, and if I think it's improved or not, and in what way.

Bow-Massively improved. Now possible to spam it. Great option if you've already got a boomerang out, or even to fill in a gap between boomerang and bomb spam. Also charges much quicker.

Boomerang-still pretty good. About the same. I didn't really notice the gale effect, and it does hit like normal, for anyone who was confused. The gale effect only happens when it is coming back.

Bombs-fall a little bit slower than in melee, but are very much improved. They actually have ok knockback at relatively mid percents.

Spin attack-HYAH. Pretty nice. Has less start up lag, but with minimum charge it becomes a nice launcher or killer. Fully charged it *****, minimum charge you can knock someone off far enough to edgehog them (especially if you're fighting someone with a tether recovery only, other than Z-amus)

Clawshot-NERFED and BUFFED. For use as an attack (not a grab) it got a huge boost, as it's capable to short hop spam it, as long as you space it, but takes a little bit to get used to. Recovery was nerfed in three ways. First is the air dodge, since you no longer pause when airdodging. Second is you are bait for edgehogging, since it only grabs the ledge, and not a wall anymore. Third is the length. It feels like it's about 3/4 of the melee hookshot. FAIL.

Grabwise it got a nerf in range. Still useful in shieldgrabbing. Just it just feels alot smaller.

The only grab I got to get off was a downthrow, which still seems to be able to combo with the utilt.

utilt-About the same. Still pretty good.

Dtilt-can't remember, think it came out a little faster

ftilt-also unsure, but I think it came out a little faster

Jabs (aaa or Hold down A)-Same nice little jab combo, though the illusion stab as been taken out (sob)

uair-ok, other than bad ending lag. Still comes out fast, still juggles, it will just be harder to juggle someone at lower percents since you can't get a second or third off as fast.

Dair-Still as horrible ending lag, but it's harder to get popped out of it now (though it's nowhere like toon Link's) the sword now comes a little bit lower, so something like Samus's Uair in melee wouldn't pop you out of it before she got hit.

Fair-Incredibly improved. Less start up lag, almost zero ending lag. I tried to shffl it instinctively, and landed in a shield. It made me happy.

Nair-About the same, still comes out fast, still has almost no ending lag. Good sexkick.

Bair-Unsure. I feel like the second hit comes out slower, and Link makes him self a bigger target when doing it (it's no longer like two nairs, it's now more like a spin kick). I don't know if it's been nerfed or buffed.

Upsmash-Yes please. Increased alot. The first two hits have less knockback, and the last hit's knockback improved. This means that almost every time, all three will hit.

Downsmash-About the same, hasn't changed to much

Forward smash-still good, didn't change to much, though I can't remember if both swipes were still in, since I only hit with the first one before I got popped out of it to try another.

Final smash-YAUS. I killed an olimar with it when he was at around 30 percent.


Final verdict-eh, Link's kind of become a different charcter than he was in melee. He's quicker (especially compared to the really slow characters, like Bowser, Dedede, Ike, etc), feels like he has more range (to me), has great projectile spam...... yet he has a horrible recovery now, just from the fact that the clawshot now officially sucks. It's to easy to get edgehogged, and the short length becomes even shorter when it goes to the ledge at an angle. You need to stick with your up+B when getting back, and when recovering, you'll probably get edgehogged and die easy. All in all, I think he'll be an average character, but I don't think he'll be super high tier material.
 

Ti11erTheKi11er

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 29, 2008
Messages
145
Location
Wisconsin
Hith knows what he is talking about........especially about the claw shot tip!

seen it in videos that's what im basing it off of and it seemed to work great cause there is no lag in the short hop and claw shot ability
 

ImpactAR

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 7, 2004
Messages
595
Location
South Carolina
HiIH,

Geez. Thank you. About time we had somewhat of the solid evaluation of Link's moveset. Good stuff.

Link might end up Mid or Low, again. Hopefully the game is balanced enough where matches will only be slightly unbalanced.

I got some questions. When you say horrible recovery. Do you mean...

1. He has bad recovery compared if you compare it to others.

2. He needs to be careful about how much damage he takes cause he's easy to screw over.

Is his hookshot longer in the air for recovery purposes than compared to when he's on the ground for grabbing purposes? I know in Melee his aerial hookshot is ridiculously long compared to his ground hookshot. I also see saw in some vids that ZSS and Olimar has very long tethers so I'm curious about how long Link's is.

Also, Deva is pretty creditable, IMHO. Can you confirm that bombs are "better" but "not useful" because to easy to catch / accidentally catch?

Thanks in advance.
 

JoeTang

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 7, 2008
Messages
74
Location
MB, Canada
Compared to Melee, I feel he has less Knock-Back in his Aerials, but that might just be in relativity to percentages of the opponent. I wasn't impressed by the changes and found a lot of tactics used in Melee had become almost obsolete. One of the major downfalls in my gameplay is expecting a longer Hook Shot, but missing because they shortened it.
With his Down Stab's ridiculous ending lag, another KO move has been removed from his arsenal. I also felt that his Boomerang had less Knock-Back and Throwing Speed. At the moment, I'm still more comfortable with Melee Link since I'm still L-Canceling every Aerial I do (with any character, not just Link. It's a conditioned response...), even though I've been playing for a month...
 

Mr Mattastic

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 11, 2006
Messages
241
Location
Fayetteville, NC
Im going to say that he got nerfed. I mained Link in melee and have got many many many hours under my belt. The Spin doesn't act as a smash anymore unless its charged up and he has one of the worst recoveries in the game. It's not as bad as it was in 64 but it doesn't give you the same height as it did in melee. Also the lack of an L cancle leaves you very open to attack if you miss a swordplant. I think it might be best for Link lovers to start looking into WW Toon Link as an alternative
 

webrunner

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 14, 2008
Messages
84
Link feels more or less the same, it's just that everyone else is so much better. Everything I liked about link, other people can do better, now, mostly newcomers
 

exo5

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 10, 2008
Messages
24
Location
The Lost Woods of Hyrule
A skilled SSB player can use any char and survive.

I took a hiatus from melee and jumped back into SSB world with Brawl. I started out with Link. After getting used to him its a little difficult to use some of the other players.

His projectile attacks do a fair ammount of dmg. 9-14% per hit. The range on his bombs suck, and are a little under powered.

Also many of his normal attacks like the overhead downward slash (?) is good for KOs and knocking players around.

He is slower than most and his grab attack when missed is a big mistake when in the middle of a fight. Also due to his attacks moving players away from him combos are between 3-5 hits.

Edit: Moving in the air seems to be a difficult task when trying to get the smash ball also.

I cant use anyone else effectively to be honest.
All in all hes a good char and unique. He reminds me of pit in many aspects. I cant seem to mount an affective attack against pit.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
mix 64 link and melee link and u get brawl link

recovery isnt broken anymore (melee + 64 = up b recovery only [grapple sux])
low acceleration (64)
scrah **** (melee)
4 kill moves (up b, dair [64], fsmash, fair [melee])
bombs are fast and have good knockback (speed from melee, knockback from 64)

final conclusion: nerfed

bad recovery doesnt help you in this game...
 

Mr.C

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 22, 2004
Messages
3,512
HiIH,

Geez. Thank you. About time we had somewhat of the solid evaluation of Link's moveset. Good stuff.

Link might end up Mid or Low, again. Hopefully the game is balanced enough where matches will only be slightly unbalanced.

I got some questions. When you say horrible recovery. Do you mean...

1. He has bad recovery compared if you compare it to others.

2. He needs to be careful about how much damage he takes cause he's easy to screw over.

Is his hookshot longer in the air for recovery purposes than compared to when he's on the ground for grabbing purposes? I know in Melee his aerial hookshot is ridiculously long compared to his ground hookshot. I also see saw in some vids that ZSS and Olimar has very long tethers so I'm curious about how long Link's is.

Also, Deva is pretty creditable, IMHO. Can you confirm that bombs are "better" but "not useful" because to easy to catch / accidentally catch?

Thanks in advance.
Ill give some info. All of Links aerials cannot be used to kill except for Uair, Dair....the others ones are extremely safe though. His kills usually come from Fsmash/Ftilt/racking up enough % to kill. Link cannot combo for chit except at low percents most of his game is around spamming projectiles and spacing yourself correctly, Link is pretty hard to approach in Brawl.

1. He does have bad recovery compared to others.
2. If he is hit once while trying to recovery he is pretty much dead. It is also very easy to hit him while he is upb'ing.

Hookshot does not help recovery at all, it is a lot shorter....but if you are already close to the edge and want to sweet spot faster just hook shot. If your opponent is on the edge any tether recoveries will not work so thats pretty gay. Also,Links grab is still long compared to others but shorter than in Melee.

Bombs are not as good in Melee but still a very important part in Links game. But then you realize most projectiles in the game are like this.

Also, people should not as up'b is a kill move anymore, they should think of it as a get out a jail free card, upb out of shield is still very good even though it doesn't kill at higher %'s
 

MeestaWombat

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
24
Location
Palo Alto
link was definitely improved, and in my opinion, he feels the same as in melee, except that you'll probably win a bit more.

his sword range is much longer (and dare i say, faster?). his upsmash is also less escapable, which is a huge buff in my opinion.

have fun!
 

Grining_Ghoul

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 9, 2008
Messages
131
Location
Tx
I think it's funny how ppl go around and say Link is weak or not as good as other characters. I love using Link and for awhile I thought it was because a lot of ppl underestimated his abilities and would get an A** whoopin when they did, but since I started playing Brawl I finally realized why I really do love using him! It's because unlike most characters he is well-rounded and offers stability, when I see friends use charcters other than Link they'll get a little win streak going, but soon after start losing just as much or more. Take me for instance, i'ver tried to use other characters in Brawl, but none seem to fit my play style and just seem uncomfortable in a sense to use. The only ones to even come close are other swordsmen (except Meta-Knight he sucks). So in the end it all really depends on what's your play style and who would be best to fit it not the broken or most used in tournament characters.

:3
 

Squadallah

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 11, 2008
Messages
19
No character "sucks" in this game. You just have to learn how to use all the moves, along with the basic/advanced techniques every character is given in this game. That shouldn't take very long. But then you have to take what's given to you and learn how to apply them in a given scenario. This is what will take practice against HUMAN players. What's the best tactic to use after a throw, best moves to use to edge-guard, how should my strategy change if I'm at a high %, how should I adjust my strategy based on the stage, opponents abilities, etc... (I could go on forever)

The key is being situational.
 

Syde7

The Sultan of Smut
Joined
Dec 7, 2004
Messages
1,923
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Winston-Salem, NC
NNID
syde_7
I don't think he sucks at all. In fact, I think he's gotten a bit (if not a lot) better than in Melee.
The main thing I noticed is his speed. In Link terms, his speed is nuts. For what its worth, and this just might be because I know my way around a Link (always mained or second-ed him) he is one of the few characters that I can consistently beat any lvl 9 CPU at this point. (For those of you unaware, the lvl 9 CPU's in Brawl are actually *good*)

His U-smash has been buffed because of the decreassed knockback from the first two swipes.
D-Air has bad lag, but definately less than a non L-cancelled one in Melle.
His bombs have improved slightly- seems to pack a bit more punch than before.
I don't like the new Boomerang, but- that's just me.
His B-Air is actually a good 'off-stage KO' move, most notably the second of the two kicks.
N-air is about the same.
Up-B has been toned waaaay down, and is useless for edgeguarding unless you time your charging of it correctly.
Hookshot is useless now for recovery- especially given that information about the tether recovery glitch when someone is holding onto the edge. (Haven't tried it out for myself as of yet)

But the thing that is important to remember is how he compares with the OTHER characters in THIS game, not himself in Melee. When comparing him to the chars in this game... he seems slightly above, if not above, average.
 

b13lion

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 9, 2005
Messages
98
Location
An hour drive away from New Orleans, LA
Link owns if you know how to play with him...I haven't had the chance to master him yet in brawl but just to give you a little tourney info I played with Link in the gamestop tourney the night brawl came out and I made it to the semi finals and lost...guess who won the tourney...LINK

I can't wait to see who wins the rounds 2, 3, and 4
 

Mr.C

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 22, 2004
Messages
3,512
Link owns if you know how to play with him...I haven't had the chance to master him yet in brawl but just to give you a little tourney info I played with Link in the gamestop tourney the night brawl came out and I made it to the semi finals and lost...guess who won the tourney...LINK

I can't wait to see who wins the rounds 2, 3, and 4
But then you realize that it was a Gamestop tournament and all of those players were completely worthless when it comes to high-level competition, lol.
 

Eten

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 29, 2006
Messages
580
Overall, I'd rank Link as pretty high tier if it wasn't for his recovery. Link can overpower and frustrate even the best of the rest of the cast with his sword and projectiles, but losing stock because you get a gimped recovery is going to bring him down a lot. Spam the projectiles and abuse his sword's range and ground game, up-B out of a shield instead of shield grab, aerials are for flavor, they aren't bad but the opportunities to really use them are low, and link doesn't ever combo but he doesn't need to, and you can win out over even some of the best of the rest of the cast, but weak recovery prevents him from being top tier.
 
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