Can falcons learn from ganon play styles?

[Windrose]

I just watched kage's MM vs palpi where he went falcon only.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlEKjqfZM_w

his style of falcon incorporates a lot of his ganon stuff which falcon mains almost never do as much.

It got me thinking that perhaps we can learn some things from watching how ganon mains interpret falcon.

Things I noticed:
-kage uses crouch cancel alot more than most other falcons do. He got a few good grabs/punishes off of CC no doubt due to how amazing ganon's cc is, he tried to incorporate that into falcon.

-he really takes advantage of the speed that falcon has in comparison to ganon whom is a lot slower. I think from playing a much slower character, the transition to a much faster character lets you appreciate all the extra things you can do that ganon could not.

ie. here: http://youtu.be/GlEKjqfZM_w?t=3m41s

where he stomps fox and immediately catches fox with the knee very quickly. I think most falcons would not be able to catch that as there's only a few moments before fox falls back down and techs on the platform. Most people would've just waited and tried to hit fox after he lands or done some other thing. this comes from watching countless videos and personal experience.

That's just one example i'm sure you guys can notice the difference from watching the whole video.

These are just a few of the many things I noticed. I'm sure you guys can see kage's ganon mind games wiht platforms and other stuff incorporated into his falcon too.

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I brought this up because I think knowing when ganon stuff can work can expand falcon options and give you more to work with in your tool box of options.

Discuss?

 

[Deleted member]

I have stolen some ganon stuff

in last recorded sets on youtube, I used f-tilt after quick aerial, lots of foxes not used to it get caught by it because they don't expect it on falcon. f-tilt after aerials seem more like a necessity on ganon and it's much more central to his game.

Just another gimmick I can add to my bag of tricks.

I have recently moved away from doing it since most of the foxes in my area adapted already but I might use it against new opponents, most won't adapt until they get kicked out of weird spots 50 times

that falcon stomp knee is a darkrain special where he can hit awkward knees rising up. in that spot, because of fox's location after getting popped up i would cover both tech in place/ roll to left with a knee and if he techs right I still have time to grab/dash attack.

It's great if you can do it really consistently, but I am lazy and go for non-optimal option

Also, looking at it short hop knee would hit him BARELY before he lands on plat

 

[linkoninja]

Falcon and Ganon can definitely learn from each other, since they have a lot of the same moves. When a Fox is below the stage I love to wave-land> Up-Air them. it's pretty good. Or waveland> B-air on characters like Marth.

Falcon's Down Tilt can definitely be used like Ganon does it. Random Down-Tilt to pop them up and then do something. I definitely need to use more tilts and ground moves. My falcon is too aerial based that if I get intercepted I get *****. :/

 

[ryankam10]

ie. here: http://youtu.be/GlEKjqfZM_w?t=3m41s

where he stomps fox and immediately catches fox with the knee very quickly. I think most falcons would not be able to catch that

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUL57lOLVb8#t=1m18s
where u at broski!
hehehe.... T_T

 

[Windrose]

I have stolen some ganon stuff

in last recorded sets on youtube, I used f-tilt after quick aerial, lots of foxes not used to it get caught by it because they don't expect it on falcon. f-tilt after aerials seem more like a necessity on ganon and it's much more central to his game.

Just another gimmick I can add to my bag of tricks.

I have recently moved away from doing it since most of the foxes in my area adapted already but I might use it against new opponents, most won't adapt until they get kicked out of weird spots 50 times

that falcon stomp knee is a darkrain special where he can hit awkward knees rising up. in that spot, because of fox's location after getting popped up i would cover both tech in place/ roll to left with a knee and if he techs right I still have time to grab/dash attack.

It's great if you can do it really consistently, but I am lazy and go for non-optimal option

Also, looking at it short hop knee would hit him BARELY before he lands on plat

Yeah, one thing that's perhaps a good idea is to use cross overs more as falcon such that when you land behind your opponent's shield you can still use tilt after you L-cancel. It would be a substitute gentlemen since there's not enough time to turn around and gentlemen.

Ah I see, I knew I saw it elsewhere before but for some reason I thought it was a scar thing. Anyways, being able to hit these awkward/super fast stomp knees consistently would be something that'd be worth mastering and being able to hit consistently as letting fox land and teching gives up a free guaranteed strong hit/finisher.

Falcon and Ganon can definitely learn from each other, since they have a lot of the same moves. When a Fox is below the stage I love to wave-land> Up-Air them. it's pretty good. Or waveland> B-air on characters like Marth.

Falcon's Down Tilt can definitely be used like Ganon does it. Random Down-Tilt to pop them up and then do something. I definitely need to use more tilts and ground moves. My falcon is too aerial based that if I get intercepted I get *****. :/

Yeah, although it should be noticed that ganon's up air has a lower reach for reverse up airing compared to falcon's. This is due to a difference in the hitboxes between falcon and ganon's up airs.

I'm curious if falcon can shield stab with dair like ganon can when timed and placed precisely.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUL57lOLVb8#t=1m18s
where u at broski!
hehehe.... T_T

yeah i noticed that when I saw your video in the critique section. Most falcons actually don't hit those that fast as there's lots of time in the stun duration of stomp. People will take their time with double jumps or delayed jumps to have more time to position their knee precisely. However this creates a bad habit of waiting more time than is needed to hit it where in certain situations there is very little time but is still possible to link stomp to knee. (ie. when there's a platform above like in the kage vs palpi video).


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What do you guys think about 2:36 (in the video in the OP)?
It's pretty funny and clearly adapted from ganon's wizard kick finisher. Falcons would obviously never do this cuz falcon kick is generally pretty bad but he saw the right moment to use it and it worked LOL. (i don't think any other option would've reached fox fast enough....not sure...) discuss?

 

[Palpi]

There was definitely a bunch of strange nuances you don't see from a "normal" falcon during the set, but I agree that you can learn a lot from good players that don't main falcon, because they utilize different moves. I was not expecting those CC grabs. Also, I told him to go falcon

We are doing another MM at apex...i'll be more comfortable and competitive next time, i was so sloppy

 

[Warhawk]

Never thought I'd see Kage ever play anyone but Ganon lol. That being said I was pretty impressed, liked the way he used his uairs.

 

[Mr Postman]

Cool upairs by Kage.

 

[JonnyW]

Kage should main falcon

 

[Cleod]

Heck ofc falcon can copy some Ganon play, just know Ganon is just a slower more powerful clone than falcon so just copy Ganon's fast play and rid off the slow play and chazam, you get falcon who's learned ganon's playing style.

 

[S l o X]

the main thing falcons can copy is to not approach and play gay af.

 

[Citizen Snips]

Kage doesn't really play Falcon. He plays a Ganondorf with Falcon's moveset. Every time I watch his Falcon it looks so rough, but his mental game backs it up so much that it's really good.