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COMPLETELY VANILLA Mafia | Game Over

Xivii

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New avatar to help xivii read me this game.
I actually thought your other avatar was townie, hence why I was paranoid of you because it was townie just like my initial impression of you in Crossover. It wasn't until you flipped scum that game that I came to associate the frog avas as scummy. By the way, I forgot to mention that this was indeed true:
I don't think Boom and Rajam are partners. I'd put Boom at around 20% scum.
Honestly Boom you're kind of obvtown. I'm surprised anyone is scumreading you tbh. I didn't even intend to execute you yesterday.
I didn't think you were scum (even Day 1, I was just pushing you for the heck of it) until your Z push which completely reversed my read. And it solidified with that feels like we're getting it wrong comment. Before that, though, I really was just messing around.
 

Darkpit54

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What's the scum motivation behind blatantly rolefishing? Further, if doing so was genuinely scum indicative, would the fact that no one answered really nullify that scumminess?
I don't think I need to explain why scum would want to rolefish lol. I was seriously struggling to see the town intent behind a massclaim, and still kind of am. I actually asked what the point would be a couple of times I'm pretty sure if you don't believe me here lol

However, I read his retraction of it not as being because no one answered, but because he realized a massclaim would likely help scum. This reads as town motivated to me, as I feel like scum, especially scum that hasn't been called out, would be more likely to stick to their guns and try to get a claim out of at least a few people, right? But maybe I'm just reaching lol

This is the retraction:
But Ive decided I’d like to hold off on that for now, give it a rest for a lil bit. Keep your roles to yourself for now, there’s a good chance that there’s a rolecop and I don’t want to do scum’s work for them.
mərcurı mərcurı and 3DSNinja 3DSNinja where are your heads rn? What are you thinking about the current state of the game?
 

Chaco

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Why did you call out 3DSNinja, but not Mercuri as well?
Mercuri has at least posted in a somewhat game relevant fashion. 3DS did similar things last game and then replaced out is why I’ve spoken out about that. I’m not trying to be mean or anything, I just don’t see the point of coming in and saying I’m gonna post and then not doing so and having a replacement come in end of D1.

Mercuri will get it too if there’s no real content produced soon.
 

BoomFrog

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I didn't think you were scum (even Day 1, I was just pushing you for the heck of it) until your Z push which completely reversed my read. And it solidified with that feels like we're getting it wrong comment. Before that, though, I really was just messing around.
Well I am comforted that everything that made me suspicious of you was accurate. Your chocolate claim was fake and your push on me was fake. Even still on D2 I thought you were not going to go through with my yeet right up until you called for the hammer. I thought you'd see no one was defending me and call it off.
 

BoomFrog

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#HBC | Kary #HBC | Kary Request modprod on 3dsNinja. Considering his behavior last game I'd like to request that we get a replacement sooner rather then later.
 

BoomFrog

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Also, I was thinking about the whole speed hammer thing last game and I realized that the reason vote analysis works at end of day is because votes are only serious when a yeet is a realistic possibility. So I propose we make yeets always a real possibility. We pick one person to be "the judge", then everyone else votes with the intention of getting someone to L-1. Then the judge decides to hammer or give up judgeship. If they decide to not hammer then we have to pick someone new to be judge and someone new to bring to L-1. And we do that until we get a yeet.

What do you guys think?
 

Chaco

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Well I am comforted that everything that made me suspicious of you was accurate. Your chocolate claim was fake and your push on me was fake. Even still on D2 I thought you were not going to go through with my yeet right up until you called for the hammer. I thought you'd see no one was defending me and call it off.
It was the goober drag that did you in.
 

Chaco

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Also, I was thinking about the whole speed hammer thing last game and I realized that the reason vote analysis works at end of day is because votes are only serious when a yeet is a realistic possibility. So I propose we make yeets always a real possibility. We pick one person to be "the judge", then everyone else votes with the intention of getting someone to L-1. Then the judge decides to hammer or give up judgeship. If they decide to not hammer then we have to pick someone new to be judge and someone new to bring to L-1. And we do that until we get a yeet.

What do you guys think?
Basically just electing a town leader to always hammer? I really don’t see an issue with that, that’s basically what I did to DP the end of UP’s game. Cause I don’t see the likelihood of a bomb role here with such a small set up, and they aren’t common anyways.
 

#HBC | Kary

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ANNOUNCEMENT

3DSNinja was sent a 'prod' at the time of votecount 1-4

If you believe any player has violated a game rule, including rule 3 which governs activity, we appreciate you bringing it to our attention.
To guarantee it receives our attention, please mention it in reply to your role PM or via private message. Thank you.
 
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Xivii

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Also, I was thinking about the whole speed hammer thing last game and I realized that the reason vote analysis works at end of day is because votes are only serious when a yeet is a realistic possibility. So I propose we make yeets always a real possibility. We pick one person to be "the judge", then everyone else votes with the intention of getting someone to L-1. Then the judge decides to hammer or give up judgeship. If they decide to not hammer then we have to pick someone new to be judge and someone new to bring to L-1. And we do that until we get a yeet.

What do you guys think?
I think this gives too much control to scum.
I don't think I need to explain why scum would want to rolefish lol. I was seriously struggling to see the town intent behind a massclaim, and still kind of am. I actually asked what the point would be a couple of times I'm pretty sure if you don't believe me here lol

However, I read his retraction of it not as being because no one answered, but because he realized a massclaim would likely help scum. This reads as town motivated to me, as I feel like scum, especially scum that hasn't been called out, would be more likely to stick to their guns and try to get a claim out of at least a few people, right? But maybe I'm just reaching lol

This is the retraction:
The thing is, you didn't say you town read him for it. You left it open in a way as for him to still be pushed for it. Again it's similar to how Frozen treated Chaco's push on me in Midnight. It's throwing shade while keeping your hands clean.
 

Chaco

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I understand that concern though, cause wrong person gets chosen it’s auto cred. Cause scum wouldn’t back off a bus if they were town leader if they knew they’d gain massive cred off of it and someone else would just hammer anyways.
 

Xivii

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I understand that concern though, cause wrong person gets chosen it’s auto cred. Cause scum wouldn’t back off a bus if they were town leader if they knew they’d gain massive cred off of it and someone else would just hammer anyways.
What are your thoughts on #200?
 

Chaco

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I'm looking through this again and there are actually two separate things about it that are indicative of scum:

First, as I mentioned, the self-nullifying nature of the statement is not one that is likely to come from a town position. I made note of this same tell from Mala in Midnight Ops. Basically it's a filler format that scum use to portray a sense of solving. It's displayed in different ways, but it's basically statements that are formed as "I thought this, but...," "I agree with this, but...," meant to show a sense of progression. It's not the way that townie players tend to actually communicate their views though. Townies tend to respond in a straightforward manner without the conjunction. So for example, town!darkpit may have said something like "he went back on it before anyone actually answered though so... eh?"

Darkpit, you said that you made statements like this in the previous game but I don't think you did. Yes, you made statements challenging arguments and reads, but they were in the form such as that of the yellow line, not as conjunctive hedging.

Second, it's the fact that Darkpit considered the rolefishing (pre-retraction) to be scum indicative in the first place. The fact that Darkpit thinks it's not scum indicative because UP went back on it implies that he thinks it would be scum indicative if he didn't. I don't this sort of read comes from someone as intent-minded as Darkpit. What's the scum motivation behind blatantly rolefishing? Further, if doing so was genuinely scum indicative, would the fact that no one answered really nullify that scumminess? He is implying that the action isn't scummy because it didn't result in a negative outcome. This isn't reasonable to think. An assassin that fails to kill his target is still an assassin.

Ultimately, it looks like Darkpit was being opportunistic here, playing off of somi's suspicion while distancing himself from the blood. It's similar to how in Midnight, Frozen played off of Chaco's suspicion of me while keeping his hands clean from the actual push.


_________





Looking at this again as well, Darkpit's reasoning still does not hold up. Again Chaco made a statement about the game potentially being a b-game because his role was miller despite the game claiming to be vanilla. Darkpit showed that his own role was not bast and so concluded that the game was not bast. This doesn't make sense though as it doesn't at all refute Chaco's point about Chaco's role.

Look again at the first like "I think if this game was bast, my role would probably be..." This assumption is not justified. He's completely pulling it out of thin air. What reason would there be for that in order for the game to be bast, every role would have to be bast?

So what was the purpose behind making the post? We know it wasn't actually to conclude that the game wasn't a b-game because it didn't actually address Chaco's point. This leads me to suspect that the entire purpose of this post was to establish in our mind that he was an innocent child. He went into how we shouldn't conclude he is an IC, but it's not like we were? It's like if you were at a bar and a girl randomly came up to you and was like "I know I don't have corona because I was just tested, but I don't think we should make out with all this corona stuff going on hahaha."
I’m inclined to believe some of the points you’re making here, but I want to see DPs progression. Cause I think he’s speaking the way he is in some regard due to your role in UPs game. Role as in position in securing victory, basically he’s bowing to a vet somewhat. I do see what you’re saying though with his role, and it is almost completely unnecessary to say don’t treat me as confirmed because I’m not to gain credibility. But I need to see more overall to really make a stand on him one way or the other. His play does feel different here though, so I will give you that. Coming from someone who’s as so easy to townread to now, it’s a noticeable difference, and that’s completely aside from the role issue.
 

Xivii

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Vote: BoomFrog

I'm sorry BoomFrog, I wanted to give you some breathing room this game but I do think you're scum here. I also am also inclined to agree with Chaco's assessment and give Darkpit some space.

I'm vibing with Up here.

Unyeetable -
Chaco
FrozenFlame
UP

Dark Pit - I can see the Xivii's perspective, but I'm still leaning town for other reasons and think the thought process is plausible.
Xivii - very wrong on a lot of points. Probably still town.

Somitomi - Doesn't get it
mərcurı - Seems to be avoiding the whole topic.

I agree we should mass claim today. But I don't want to hear anyone else debate the merits of that besides somitomi somitomi , mərcurı mərcurı and 3DSNinja 3DSNinja

3DSNinja 3DSNinja play post more. About anything. You don't need to fully catch up, just raw post your thoughts and reactions as you think them.
This read list is easy and opportunistic. He also placed Chaco as unyeetable for who knows why? Frozen for who knows why? UP for who knows why? And again, what is it that some doesn't get? And what is the scum intent behind Merc's play?

It seems like Boom is trying to pocket Chaco with his read of him and somi. And he has an unnatural town read on me.
 

BoomFrog

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You'll get your answers as promised. Hold your horses.
seems like Boom is trying to pocket Chaco with his read of him and somi. And he has an unnatural town read on me
If anything I'm trying to pocket UP. Why did you neglect to mention that?
 

Xivii

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Town Reads/Leans

Chaco
I am town leaning for this set of posts:
If we don’t get some 3DSNinja 3DSNinja content today I’m truthfully gonna be annoyed.
Mercuri has at least posted in a somewhat game relevant fashion. 3DS did similar things last game and then replaced out is why I’ve spoken out about that. I’m not trying to be mean or anything, I just don’t see the point of coming in and saying I’m gonna post and then not doing so and having a replacement come in end of D1.

Mercuri will get it too if there’s no real content produced soon.
ranmaru ranmaru seems as if he’s ready to replace, if needed.
I think the annoyance is genuine, and I don't think scum pushes so hard for a replacement when 3DS would be a welcome liability (and no I don't think they are scummates).

somitomi
I actually like his tone quite a bit and the questions he has asked. He doesn't come off as having a guilty conscience. Specifically, I like the fact that even after coming to realize he had previously failed to grasp why Dark Pit claimed and the assertion that there was something he wasn't getting, that did not cause him to flounder and he continued to push in an assertive manner in #179.

mərcurı
I think this is more likely a town observation than a scum one:
maybe retracting read on poy with the basis that he really doesnt seem to have an agenda right now given his... volatile reads

Probably Town/Reserve

3DSNinja

#HBC FrozeηFlame
There is a line from Frozen that I do think could be from scum, but I'm waiting on a response. His play overall is alright so far.

UtopianPoyzin
I think these are townie thoughts:
Btw #62 feels like omega distancing
Xivii is scum trying to save their scum is that I put in my PoE, presumably either Somitomi or Mercuri, probably not either Ninja nor BF.
I'd have to say on the surface, UP is by far the most scummy player, but I'm thinking this may have more to do with a misunderstanding of the setup. My biggest issue right now is his reluctance to reevaluate his Darkpit read. I also think the interactions Boom has had with him has scummate potential.


Scum Reads

BoomFrog
Summary in #220

DarkPit54
My case in #200 sums everything up.

_________


Associations:
X UP and Darkpit aren't scummates due to DP's opportunism / open defense in #74, UP's doubts response in #88, DP's #109 which is too organic for them to be scummates, and UP's shouting response in #191.

The way that BoomFrog interacts with UP has scummate potential. Specifically, his "I'm vibing with UP" and "Xivii is very wrong" comments in #148. In the event that I'm incorrect on Darkpit, I think this forms a cohesive explanation for why UP is strongly town reading Darkpit despite the evidence I presented. And #181 and #192 from Boom seem like over-the-top reactions that are characteristic of distancing.

There is some potential that Frozen and Darkpit are scummates. Frozen didn't address any of the points that I made on Darkpit. I had anticipated that of anyone Frozen would have been the one to agree with me on both the points I made on Darkpit and UP, but he ignored them entirely. Despite that, in #155 he stated that I clearly demonstrated Darkpit "doesn't get it," which kind of feels like a bus type of throwaway.

So I think each of these teams is currently possible, from most likely to least likely:

1. Darkpit and Boom
2. Boom and Poyzin
3. Darkpit and Frozen
 

BoomFrog

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Despite that, in #155 he stated that I clearly demonstrated Darkpit "doesn't get it," which kind of feels like a bus type of throwaway.
I agree with this. I think you demonstrated issues with Darkpit's thought process, but that is unrelated to "it".

#HBC | FrozeηFlame #HBC | FrozeηFlame Time for the reveal. What is "it" that you, UP, Choco and I get but Darkpit doesn't get?
 

#HBC | Kary

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Votecount 1-5

[2] mərcurı : #HBC FrozeηFlame, Boomfrog
[1] somitomi: Chaco
[1] Darkpit54: Xivii
[1] #HBC FrozeηFlame : UtopianPoyzin

[4] Not Voting: 3DSNinja, mərcurı, Darkpit54, somitomi

With 9 alive, it takes 5 votes to eliminate.

Day 1 Deadline is: 11 PM UTC on Saturday August 8th

NB a link to all Votecounts can be found in post #2
 
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#HBC | Kary

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IMPORTANT INFORMATION

per rule 10, the following 'vote' was not counted:
Vote: BoomFrog
as a reminder;
10. You can vote and unvote with the commands "##vote: example" and "##unvote". votes without '##' will not be counted.
we appreciate that this rule may be unfamiliar to many of you but it helps us to track votes accurately and effectively.
please remember to include '##' with your vote and be mindful that we intend to enforce this rule.
 
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Xivii

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Actually, there's something that contradicts the notion of Boom/UP, so I'd remove that from the potential teams.


Also your quotes of mine are bad too because those are the only two where I toy around with the idea of you being scum so you’re using anti-OMGUS to say “he’s town because he considered me as scum”
Nah that's not my reasoning.
 

Chaco

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We need to see more Mercuri and then we will see the verdict on 3DS, if they replace or play. Anyways, with 9 players two inactive slots sucks. I’m trying to get a good overall game grasp, and that’s just currently not possible with missing links.

If things don’t change toDay, DP is looking like he could be the play overall.

I really wanna hear some more Somitomi thoughts as well. We have had some input here but not a lot.

Boom seems typical Boom to me rn from my experiences last game, so I’m waiting for the larger Boom posts to tell for sure. But I fought my gut in UPs game and didn’t townread Boom when I liked their posts a lot. So I feel I have a pretty good townBoom radar, so I’m waiting for that to develop fully.

Nothing about Xivii strikes me as overly townie here, but I do agree with the points on DP, so he’s a town lean. Like I said, I’m waiting to see how that goes though.

Same with UP, lots of presence but nothing overly townie yet that has confirmed my read. New slot to me as well, so I’m trying to figure him out. Not sure if he’s townreading me so heavy from watching me play last game and getting a good sense of my town style, or my curbside appeal to be stuffed into a pocket.

Waiting for FF to dig in as well so I can get a grasp there.

Don’t Yeet:
Boom
Xivii
UP
FF

Maybe Yeet:
Somi
DP

Fat Null:
Mercuri
3DS
 

BoomFrog

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While we wait for Frozen to show up.
I think this [Judge and early hammering plan] gives too much control to scum.
Why? This plan gives a lot of power to one person, but town is usually pretty good at picking one trustworthy person. And if we do pick a scum judge then that great responsibility will force great accountability. I think high pressure situations like that are more likely to make scum crack.
 

Darkpit54

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I agree that Chaco seems very townie, both for his early Miller claim and his content overall. I think if we are picking a leader to I would probably pick Chaco, or Xivii if not.

Reallyyyy want some content from Mer and 3ds, can't really judge their slots at all rn.

Xivii, can you explain the case on Frozen? So far his little content has me pretty much at null lol
 
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