COMPLETELY VANILLA Mafia | Game Over

[ranmaru]

Boomfrog, can you explain your Somi read from your #148. Xiivi asked this in his #186 and you reply with:

@Xivii I'll answer after I've gotten my answers from 3ds and Mel. Any answer I give would be "within my scum range" anyway, so it's not really helping you to answer.

I need to go to bed so don't have time to figure out the context of this. Let me know if you wanted answers to anything else. I think I've explained my perspective well.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Could not get involved today.

If you are going to do it, do it.

Why the rush? Genuinely curious

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

this game really might not be for you.

Why are all of my hyperboles always taken at face value

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Sweet, but those are all evidence that came after you'd already concluded I'm town. I want to know what made you think I'm town before that. Because I have to understand your thinking so I know it's sincere and not just jumping to a conclusion that scum already know.

I decided that you were town toDay after I thought it was you and Xivii, if you were curious. Xivii’s mentioning of him townreading you was a part of that, as well as the two of your interactions. My townread of you strengthened over time as we were talking. In fact, another portion of my townread on you was Xivii apparently jumping to the conclusion that you were town, which is why I theorized that he did so in order to win points with your slot. If you’re also town then you will have a tough decision if/when I vote Ran. Ngl I’ve been moderately underwhelmed with the reactions to it; I’m not sure what somi’s opinion is of it which I think could be beneficial to hear.

 

[ranmaru]

UtopianPoyzin What do you think of what I have posted about Somi? I want you to go in depth.

 

[ranmaru]

I'm also curious why your read changed on Somi, and why you scumread Frozen.

 

[BoomFrog]

Yeah, let's not encourage an alpha strike Boom. Why are you encouraging a vote if you have yet to give a reads list? Are you not waiting for Frozen to commit a read first?

It's hardly an alpha strike, we have less then 48 hours. I would love for Frozen to get out a reads list, but considering he obviously doesn't have RL time I'm not going to wait and end up in a mad last minute scramble.

And I won't be giving my read list before UP votes.

Why the rush? Genuinely curious

Once you vote the game gets dramatically simpler. Assuming the game doesn't end, it means one of you must be scum.

 

[ranmaru]

I'd rather not answer that right now, I'd like Frozen to commit to a read first. I've been generally considered solid town by most players and I'm pretty sure that I'm going to end up in the final judgement position here. No need to tip my hand prematurely. You should trust your predecessor, he knows me better then you do.

And I won't be giving my read list before UP votes.

 

[ranmaru]

I find this to be a red flag. Especially since you change it from Frozen giving a read to UP voting. UP, for this very reason, I think it is important we wait for Frozen to give input, and discuss until deadline.

 

[ranmaru]

So, yeah, I'm willing to bet the game that you and UP contain exactly one scum and me withholding my true opinions right now will help me catch the second scum.

Boom, can you explain why you think this is the case? (In red)

 

[BoomFrog]

As you can see here. Somi messes up his reads list, and this is his explanation. This does not fly. So I have proven that Somi is Mafia struggling to construct reads, and still has to answer for messing up the Darkpit read.

I don't get what you think you've proven? Somi's explanation of being sleepy is possible. I agree this is evidence, but be careful with words like "proven".

I find this to be a red flag. Especially since you change it from Frozen giving a read to UP voting. UP, for this very reason, I think it is important we wait for Frozen to give input, and discuss until deadline.

Sorry for being unclear, my reads will be coming after both of those events and a few other things.

Boom, can you explain why you think this is the case? (In red)

I don't think Somi-Frozen is likely and I really don't think Ran-UP is possible.

Goodnight again Ran. Btw, thanks for catching up so quickly.

 

[ranmaru]

Sorry for being unclear, my reads will be coming after both of those events and a few other things.

 

[ranmaru]

Somi being sleepy seems like an excuse. If he were sleepy, he shouldn't be posting until he wakes up and has a clearer mindset. Yet he posts in that time frame to appease. Compare this to me, I state I'll be taking a break, I fall asleep, and I come back shortly after you encourage UP to vote. (Also oog, I dreamt of Somi being a monkey or something ) Also, his constant mistakes with reads goes against Laserguy's town meta of Somi. (#1407) Therefore I find his explanation confirms he is scumleaning, as that is not a good explanation. I'll take back 'proven', yet I am confident Somi is scum.

 

[ranmaru]

Also, I'm still re-reading. UtopianPoyzin Would love your input on what I asked.

 

[ranmaru]

Also an ordered reads list from you would be nice, UP. I haven't seen you post an updated one.

 

[somitomi]

I'm a bit alarmed by BoomFrog trying to rush the end of the day and being so cagey about their opinions.

This is their Boom read. They have Boom as top town, and this is the reasoning.

Yes, because "top town" in this context pretty much amounts to "least shady". I could say "BoomFrog's play and tone was consistent with what I'd expect from town!BoomFrog" in so many words, but it'd amount to the same thing. I think I have complained in many games about how much time I can sink into rereads and one way I'm cutting down on this is that I don't overthink townreads on people that haven't done anything I see as suspicious.

Eureka. I have found an inconsistency from Somi. Somi downgraded Frozen from town to null without explanation.

I feel like you're grasping at straws here, Frozen is close to the middle on the "old" list as well and I did mention the reason for the apparent downgrade, although not explicitly regarding Frozen. Two out of four remaining players are mafia, but my bottom two slots can't be mafia together, casting doubt on the other slots. I don't discard the UP & Boom team as a possibility, because my Boom read is nowhere confident enough to clear UP either.

Sorry for being unclear, my reads will be coming after both of those events and a few other things.

I can sort of understand waiting for Frozen's opinion, but why do you want to wait until UP votes? Why withhold your reads until a moment when they might not matter at all because the game's already over?

 

[ranmaru]

It's understandable to not want to overthink townreads, but when your basis of a read is that flimsy, I would think you'd want to build on it somewhat first before getting to a point where you'd want to commit to it in either direction. Yet with Frozen, as the size of town shrinks, that doesn't mean he'll suddenly become null. So, I want to see your explanation for why Frozen has become null to you at this point in the game, that then makes your earlier town read on Frozen void.

 

[ranmaru]

somitomi If you can't think about what was suspicious about Darkpit why did you put him in the bottom (second to last) of your reads list?

 

[ranmaru]

BoomFrog : Answer my #1441.

 

[somitomi]

Where on Earth is Frozen Sandiego by the way?

Somi hasn't answered and hasn't posted by the time hammer has happened at that point, so these Xiivi questions still need answering.

1) See below.
2) Already answered in my first post of the day, Xivii even asked followup questions about it.
3) Boom looked like town!Boom to me, there really isn't any other way I can put that. This was compounded by the fact that my top scum candidate was pushing them, so I felt like I could put them into the "reconsider later if necessary" pile.

somitomi : Additional Question: If you can't think about what was suspicious about Darkpit why did you put him in the bottom (second to last) of your reads list?

Because at the time I made that list, DarkPit seemed scummier in my recollection. The realisation that I'm actually not sure where that came from happened afterwards while I was rereading some D2 stuff, because DarkPit's posts didn't seem very suss. I'm guessing that I ended up giving more weight to the odd logic regarding Darkpit's role, because UP faded into the backround due to V/LA stuff and I felt like there wasn't much to go on.

It's understandable to not want to overthink townreads, but when your basis of a read is that flimsy, I would think you'd want to build on it somewhat first before getting to a point where you'd want to commit to it in either direction. Yet with Frozen, as the size of town shrinks, that doesn't mean he'll suddenly become null. So, I want to see your explanation for why Frozen has become null to you at this point in the game, that then makes your earlier town read on Frozen void.

Yes, but with the size of town reduced and the fact that one of my townreads is mafia by PoE, my confidence in all of my townreads is reduced. This basically shifts the entire list towards the scum side, offsetting the townread I have on Frozen. The same happened to Boom, but I had more confidence in my read at that point and they still remained on the town side, at least before they started pushing UP to vote.

 

[ranmaru]

somitomi Who do you think is scum between Xivii and DP? Or both?

I'm generally reading both of them as scummy, but Xivii is stronger right now. Some of Darkpit's posts today gave me little town-vibes and I know town can be wrong, but I'm somewhat influenced by Osie townreading Darkpit as well.

Can you explain this then?

 

[ranmaru]

Now in terms of your lessened confidence of Frozen, that's my point. Your townread on him should get weaker, and not suddenly become null, because then you are saying you aren't actually evaluating him. What should be happening is town > slight town. (Going down a notch, and not a few notches) Also, in response to your question, he said he'd be around saturday afternoon and possibly sunday. Yet he last viewed the night I replaced in at 12AM. (When I asked him to talk to me) I hope to see him today.

 

[ranmaru]

UtopianPoyzin Where you at? I would really like to talk reads especially on Somi and Frozen.

 

[somitomi]

Quick check in, because I'm going out in the evening.

Can you explain this then?

I don't really know what you need an explanation for here.

Now in terms of your lessened confidence of Frozen, that's my point. Your townread on him should get weaker, and not suddenly become null, because then you are saying you aren't actually evaluating him. What should be happening is town > slight town. (Going down a notch, and not a few notches) Also, in response to your question, he said he'd be around saturday afternoon and possibly sunday. Yet he last viewed the night I replaced in at 12AM. (When I asked him to talk to me) I hope to see him today.

Yes, but Frozen was already "mild town" to begin with, so one notch down is "neutral". Perhaps I should've used that instead of "null", I should have enough amateur programming skills to know the difference between zero and null.

 

[ranmaru]

Explain why you answered Boom's question (DP v XV) with 'both are scummy'. Fair on Frozen already being mild town to begin with. I'll drop the Frozen point.

 

[BoomFrog]

BoomFrog : Answer my #1441.

Sure. I don't mind helping you get context of my earlier mindset.

Boomfrog, can you explain your Somi read from your #148. Xiivi asked this in his #186 and you reply with:

Somitomi - Doesn't get it

This was in reference to the day one idea of "it" which was eventually explained by Frozen. That all the roles were joke roles. And I followed up with my explination of my read on DP, that not getting it indicated a scum mindset because a town player was more likely to assume their role was typical of town. After Somi claimed, it became clear why Somi didn't get "it" because Somi's role isn't obviousely a troll role if you don't know there are no real messaging/recruiting powers in the game.

 

[BoomFrog]

somitomi I know my behaviour doesn't fit the typical idea of what town should do at lylo but I have a plan. Right now scum control two votes and need me to cooperate to get the 3rd vote the way they want. By not revealing which way I plan to vote, I force both scum to vote together and reveal their team associations. This way, If I get it right toDay we get both scum confirmed. If I reveal early, the 2nd scum can muddy things by bussing and we need to get it right again toMorrow.

 

[ranmaru]

Thank you.

 

[BoomFrog]

Somi being sleepy seems like an excuse. If he were sleepy, he shouldn't be posting until he wakes up and has a clearer mindset. Yet he posts in that time frame to appease. Compare this to me, I state I'll be taking a break, I fall asleep, and I come back shortly after you encourage UP to vote. (Also oog, I dreamt of Somi being a monkey or something ) Also, his constant mistakes with reads goes against Laserguy's town meta of Somi. (#1407) Therefore I find his explanation confirms he is scumleaning, as that is not a good explanation. I'll take back 'proven', yet I am confident Somi is scum.

You are making the assumption that everyone behaves like you. Somi as town or scum is trying to work with you (or pretend to work with you). Both versions of Somi feel pressure to put in extra time and get some posts out before the next day. I think the mistake was caused sleepiness either way. The questions is was the mistake not reviewing the order carefully, or was the mistake forgetting to stay consistant with their previous positions.

 

[ranmaru]

I think it's the latter since it's more than once this has happened. (Three times) See above, as I have another question relating to Darkpit. Although sleepiness is not a good explanation to me. This is the Boom defense I have been expecting regarding your stance on UP earlier in the game. I also don't see it as working with me, I see it as him doing his due diligence, responding to pressure. Although, no one is really working with me at this point.

 

[ranmaru]

UtopianPoyzin Please post.

 

[BoomFrog]

This is the Boom defense I have been expecting regarding your stance on UP earlier in the game.

Did you mean Somi instead of UP here?

 

[ranmaru]

No, I meant UP. As in, as you are defending Somi here, I have expected you to do the same regarding UP.

 

[ranmaru]

Mod Request Prod On FrozenFlame

 

[ranmaru]

Yeah Chaco, I completely agree with that ping. I’ll be elaborating on it later because I don’t want to provide scum with information they may not know too early, but I’m really mind-melding with you here.

Have you elaborated on this? If not, can you do so now.

##Vote: #HBC | FrozenFlame

Why did you move from Somi to FrozenFlame here?

 

[BoomFrog]

No, I meant UP. As in, as you are defending Somi here, I have expected you to do the same regarding UP.

Ah, I see what you mean. If it makes you feel better I had the same sort of defense of DP D2 and Xivii also misunderstood it as trying to defend a scum buddy.

I just like to clarify when I see people misinterpreting. I'm trying to be the sounding board you need to refine your reads, without actually saying what my reads are. Saying Somi was actually sleepy is not saying Somi isn't scum.

 

[ranmaru]

#HBC | FrozeηFlame Get your butt in here.

 

[ranmaru]

somitomi Why didn't you vote UP in your #394 as opposed to voting Xiivi in your #589.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Votecount 3-4

[5] Not Voting: somitomi, #HBC FrozeηFlame, BoomFrog, UtopianPoyzin, Ranmaru

With 5 alive, it takes 3 votes to eliminate.

Day 3 Deadline is at 11 PM UTC on Monday August 24th; less than 25 hours remain

#HBC FrozeηFlame was sent a 'prod' earlier today.

NB Due to ranmaru aka Ranmaru's change in display name, we will be accepting votes for either of his names provided they begin '##'.
His name will remain as 'Ranmaru' on votecounts for the sake of consistency.

 

[ranmaru]

BoomFrog Has Somi made similar reads mistakes in previous games? somitomi Can you answer this question, and provide a post number(s)?