COMPLETELY VANILLA Mafia | Game Over

[ranmaru]

somitomi What makes you think DP is scum?

You know, I've been thinking about this all morning and I really can't put my finger on what I found suspicious about DarkPit on D1. The bast*rd logic is the only thing I could point at, but I don't think that's very strong. I'm still suspicious of Xivii after this much re-evaluation and seeing my progress so far I'm not sure how much I'll get done in the remaining 9 hours.
##Vote: Xivii
I honestly just feel rather lost though. Probably my own damn fault for not dedicating enough time for the game.

somitomi what do you find suspicious then.

Also somitomi you didn't explain why Boom is lock town for you.

Somi hasn't answered and hasn't posted by the time hammer has happened at that point, so these Xiivi questions still need answering.

 

[ranmaru]

somitomi : Additional Question: If you can't think about what was suspicious about Darkpit why did you put him in the bottom (second to last) of your reads list? Also please answer my #1399 and #1393.

 

[ranmaru]

BoomFrog : Somi should be leaning scum since twice, he gives out a reads list but has trouble justifying the order or placement. Once regarding why Darkpit is suspicious to him, and twice on having UP being last when he meant having my slot as last. So I'm curious what you think of his answer to your question above, and also why you liked Xiivi's #1041.

 

[ranmaru]

friday and saturday night are going to be complete no shows from me, I'm booked solid, but I do plan I being available saturday afternoon and probably most of sunday. Monday will be iffy depending on my court schedule which isn't 100% set in stone yet but I'm going to make every effort to clear atleast 2 hours pre-deadline

It's afternoon my time. I'll humor your question: The only mate to UP would be Somi. Yet I find that to be unlikely. Start with Somi.

 

[BoomFrog]

BoomFrog : Somi should be leaning scum since twice, he gives out a reads list but has trouble justifying the order or placement. Once regarding why Darkpit is suspicious to him, and twice on having UP being last when he meant having my slot as last. So I'm curious what you think of his answer to your question above, and also why you liked Xiivi's #1041.

What makes you think that I think Somi is town?

 

[ranmaru]

I didn't, you said you haven't decided on which. I'm saying why he should be leaning scum.

 

[ranmaru]

somitomi is mostly a meta read. I've played with him a fair bit on xkcd before. As Town he's usually very cautious in making reads and evaluations of people, but this shouldn't be taken as a sign of scumminess, especially not this early in the game. It takes him some time to figure things out. He tends to struggle a lot more as mafia and is usually quite transparent.

 

[BoomFrog]

I didn't, you said you haven't decided on which. I'm saying why he should be leaning scum.

Alright. Noted then. I'm not confirming if I find it persuasive though.

 

[ranmaru]

I'm going to lay out why Somi messed up the order and placed UP at the bottom. There was support for UP from Frozen, and you (Boom) were questioning UP so he likely saw the support, and decided to place UP last because others were considering his direction. He isn't trying to determine who is scum legitimately, he is trying to adapt his list with the consensus. Backtracking out of this also is a bad look for him, unless he can give a good explanation.

 

[ranmaru]

Boom
Frozen
Xivii/Ranmaru (with Frozen)
UP (with Boom)
On one hand, I just can't trust nobody now, but on the other hand this streamlines things a bit.

somitomi So You think UP is more likely to be scum then Xivii?

Oh crums, I typed up the player list, checked some interactions with possible mates and then didn't sort the order out properly. No, at the moment I think Xivii/Ranmaru is more likely, mostly because of the way the wagons have played out.

 

[ranmaru]

BoomFrog : You still need to answer my #1403.

 

[BoomFrog]

BoomFrog : You still need to answer my #1403.

No.

 

[ranmaru]

By that response I assume your reason for liking Xiivi's #1041 is related to your read on Somi then.

 

[BoomFrog]

ranmaru Do you find my 1394 convincing or do you still think my enigmicity is scummy toDay?

 

[ranmaru]

I don't find it convincing. I expect you as scum to play in a static manner with a good position. My stance on you is still the same. Why do you ask?

 

[BoomFrog]

I don't find it convincing. I expect you as scum to play in a static manner with a good position. My stance on you is still the same. Why do you ask?

Because your tone has shifted to assuming I'm town and trying to convince me to vote Somi.

I agree tha tI would take advantage of my position if I managed to get here as scum. But if I am town, is it not also the best move?

 

[ranmaru]

I am mostly asking you questions about your questioning towards Somi to further develop my case on you. For example, you state that Somi isn't scummy, but you then state that you are still thinking about whether his response to you is a cover up or not. I also want to see your response to my reasoning so you have no room to wiggle out of voting Somi. At the same time I am putting down why I think Somi is scum so all of town can see that and vote correctly today.

I do not think UP is scum at all so I will not accept a cross vote between him and I so I will continue to dig. That is all I can do, and the frustrating part is I think one town is being a wall and another town is simply really busy. I can't do much else but keep sending my voice into the void.

You say you are confident there is scum between myself and UP, without having a solid bead on Somi. If you are town and having doubts of this read, then no I don't think what you are doing is the best move. Best move for you as town would be to re-evaluate. I feel if you are town you should have enough content to be able to flesh out all your reads at this point.

 

[BoomFrog]

Best move for you as town would be to re-evaluate. I feel if you are town you should have enough content to be able to flesh out all your reads at this point.

I have done that. I'm just not sharing it with you. Do you think the not sharing part is townie or scummy or neutral?

 

[ranmaru]

Scummy for not sharing it with anyone, considering you have no solid push of your own to speak of, and you have stalled multiple times during the game before giving your own opinion. I am curious why you want Frozen to commit to a read before you do, though.

 

[ranmaru]

#HBC | FrozeηFlame It is 4PM EST. 1PM PST. You around?

 

[ranmaru]

The game is really stagnant right now.

 

[ranmaru]

somitomi Please post.

 

[BoomFrog]

Yeah, it was mostly me, Xivii, Chaco and DP. Now two of them are dead and only you and I seem to actually care about the state of the game. (FF is legit busy, not throwing any shade there).

If I have another game like this with half the people barely posting I'm just going to only yeet in the quiet end of the pool.

 

[BoomFrog]

Scummy for not sharing it with anyone,

How do you suggest I share my reads with only a few of the players?

 

[ranmaru]

You just share. I don't see a good reason for withholding at this point especially with the game being stagnant. I am going to take a break, eat some food, etc. I expect to see Frozen Flame at some point. Then will re-read as that is really the most I can do with most of town being away.

 

[ranmaru]

somitomi Twice today you have viewed the boards. Why are you lurking yet not posting?

 

[somitomi]

somitomi Twice today you have viewed the boards. Why are you lurking yet not posting?

I'm typing up the replies to your questions right now, it's just taking me a bit as it usually does.

 

[somitomi]

somitomi : Can you explain how you messed up your scum list order? Why did you vote Xiivi regarding the mass claim but not show such concern in your #70?

Sleepy posting, because I'm generally writing these right before going to bed, especially now with the long weekend going on. What made me suspicious wasn't the mass claim itself, but how strongly Xivii was pushing for it. Some of this came from our different perception of how many people actually wanted it to happen, but trying to make Osie claim when they jumped in was just shady even if we had all agreed to claim, hence the vote.

The first fire drill I would do as town as well, and I have done exactly that in Oasis Mafia. Xiivi has done this as town before as well. The point being, drum up chaos to find scum, because it's in scum's best interest to remain comfortable. I can also see it as Xiivi likely having doubts on Mercuri, as Merc was really nulling it up. I think that Xiivi doing that at all, shows he, and therefore I, am town because scum don't want to do such things that can draw attention to themselves. It would make more sense if Darkpit was scum.

Yes, but "scum wouldn't do this" is wine and I think steering the wagon onto a null player was pretty useful for mafia, as it denied town a more informative flip. It also resulted in DarkPit looking even more suspicious on D2 for having narrowly avoided the noose, allowing mafia to slip by.
Additionally, I don't think redirecting the yeet from a suspicious player to a big null is town in any way, so while I can see the town motivation for such last-minute vote shenanigans, the specifics of this particular instance make me think it wasn't a town move.

Hey there Somi, good to see you. Can you explain your reads list with reasoning for them individually and for the pairing.

Boom is a bit of a vibe read, I just didn't notice anything off with Boom's play.
FrozenFlame is the "generally null" read in this list
UP is rather erratic. I was leaning scum because the slightly tongue-in-cheek tone on D1 made it easy for them to backtrack by claiming something was a joke. The way they lamented over the misyeets feels off to me as well, particularly the bit about wanting Xivii to apologise.
Xivii/Ranmaru is my strongest scumread based on deflecting the hammer from DarkPit while continuing to scumread them afterwards. They also did some shady things trying to get claims out (see above).
For the pairings, I just checked my bottom two with all possible mates. The following does factor into the above list as well.
Xivii & UP: were scumreading each other for pretty much the entire game and voted each other several times.
Xivii & Boom: Xivii had a strong scumread on Boom for the most part, but Boom was townreading Xivii, so this is a possible pair.
Xivii & Frozen: I don't recall a lot of interactions between the two beyond discussing a few points on D1. This might be because of the generally low amount of Frozen posts (yeah, pot calling the kettle and stuff). Overall, this seems to be the most likely pair
UP & Frozen: started the game with a big argument and voting each other early D1, which would be a pretty ballsy distancing move and Frozen continued to scumread UP since.
UP & Boom: UP was scumreading Boom early in the game and Boom called out some UP posts on D1, but their opinion on each other has been difficult to read since then. I do think
I realised Boom & Frozen is the only possible pair I didn't cross-check. I should do that tomorrow.
PS:
I know I missed some Xivii questions from yesterday, but this has already taken up over an hour.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Votecount 3-3

[5] Not Voting: somitomi, #HBC FrozeηFlame, BoomFrog, UtopianPoyzin, Ranmaru

With 5 alive, it takes 3 votes to eliminate.

Day 3 Deadline is at 11 PM UTC on Monday August 24th; less than 48 hours remain

 

[BoomFrog]

UtopianPoyzin If you are going to do it, do it. I have important discussion to have after you vote. If you are town and you trust I'm town, then the only way it's a bad move is if the scum team is Frozen-Somi.

 

[ranmaru]

Yeah, let's not encourage an alpha strike Boom. Why are you encouraging a vote if you have yet to give a reads list? Are you not waiting for Frozen to commit a read first?

 

[ranmaru]

UP, right now I implore you to not vote until deadline. I'm doing a re-read, and ending it now would not be fair to all the dead townies in this game. This is mylo/lylo, and we have a duty to at least weigh everything. You have a heavy burden right now. If in the end, you talk to me, and look me in the eye, and say that you still think it's me. Fine. At least I have no regrets. Yet I'm not ready to give up.

 

[ranmaru]

Boom
Frozen
Xivii/Ranmaru (with Frozen)
UP (with Boom)
On one hand, I just can't trust nobody now, but on the other hand this streamlines things a bit.

somitomi So You think UP is more likely to be scum then Xivii?

Oh crums, I typed up the player list, checked some interactions with possible mates and then didn't sort the order out properly. No, at the moment I think Xivii/Ranmaru is more likely, mostly because of the way the wagons have played out.

I'm going to lay out why Somi messed up the order and placed UP at the bottom. There was support for UP from Frozen, and you (Boom) were questioning UP so he likely saw the support, and decided to place UP last because others were considering his direction. He isn't trying to determine who is scum legitimately, he is trying to adapt his list with the consensus. Backtracking out of this also is a bad look for him, unless he can give a good explanation.

 

[ranmaru]

Sleepy posting, because I'm generally writing these right before going to bed, especially now with the long weekend going on.

As you can see here. Somi messes up his reads list, and this is his explanation. This does not fly. So I have proven that Somi is Mafia struggling to construct reads, and still has to answer for messing up the Darkpit read.

 

[ranmaru]

Boom is a bit of a vibe read, I just didn't notice anything off with Boom's play.

This is their Boom read. They have Boom as top town, and this is the reasoning.

 

[ranmaru]

somitomi Who do you think is scum between Xivii and DP? Or both?

I'm generally reading both of them as scummy, but Xivii is stronger right now. Some of Darkpit's posts today gave me little town-vibes and I know town can be wrong, but I'm somewhat influenced by Osie townreading Darkpit as well.

somitomi What makes you think DP is scum?

You know, I've been thinking about this all morning and I really can't put my finger on what I found suspicious about DarkPit on D1. The bast*rd logic is the only thing I could point at, but I don't think that's very strong. I'm still suspicious of Xivii after this much re-evaluation and seeing my progress so far I'm not sure how much I'll get done in the remaining 9 hours.
##Vote: Xivii
I honestly just feel rather lost though. Probably my own damn fault for not dedicating enough time for the game.

somitomi what do you find suspicious then.

Also somitomi you didn't explain why Boom is lock town for you.

 

[ranmaru]

You see this exchange here. Somi states he scum reads both my slot and Darkpit, yet cannot produce a reason after the fact.

 

[ranmaru]

Let's see, Chaco and BoomFrog are my town core right now
Frozen (I got some frustrated town vibes from Osie vs. Frozen)
UP
DarkPit
Xivii

This is also Somi commiting Darkpit to his reads list. So putting him down there is certainly intentional. Yet if he can't produce a reason, then he has a reason that he simply cannot explain that would otherwise doom him to being scum.

 

[ranmaru]

Not if the unknown variable doesn't appear in any of your equations.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Why would he not be a part of the equation?

Also it's concerning that this is all you have to say regarding everything that's gone on. Why on earth is BoomFrog in your core town? Also it seems that from your perspective I should be eliminated from being or unlikely to be scum just through deduction/PoE.

From an objective point of view, it seems kind of absurd to think I'm partnered with either DP or UP. And if you think the other three are town, then I'm town through PoE. So me at the bottom of your list seems like it's more likely to be coming from someone who needs a scumread rather than someone who is trying to solve the game.

This post from Xiivi, Boomfrog liked. So I am very curious as to why he liked it, but seems content with not having a solid read on Somi, after questioning him multiple times.

 

[ranmaru]

Frozen (I got some frustrated town vibes from Osie vs. Frozen)

FrozenFlame is the "generally null" read in this list

Eureka. I have found an inconsistency from Somi. Somi downgraded Frozen from town to null without explanation.