COMPLETELY VANILLA Mafia | Game Over

[osieorb18]

Mer is obvious LHF. I feel like scum could be on their wagon either way, because they're an easy misyeet or an easy bus.

I think I understand your point, Frozen. Although I don't really see the point of playing mafia if you're completely unwilling to work as a team, I suppose it is a possibility

About to look up what exactly a jester role usually entails lol


Okay thanks. The game Xiv linked had this too in RVS so I believe it's commonplace here too

Yeah, this is kinda my problem here...

Hmph.

I'mma finish my PBPA of Frozen.

 

[giraffelasergun]

Votecount 1-14

[2] Xivii : UtopianPoyzin, somitomi,
[2] Darkpit54: Boomfrog, Xivii
[1] mərcurı: osieorb18,
[1] osieorb18: #HBC FrozeηFlame

[3] Not Voting: mərcurı, Darkpit54, Chaco

With 9 alive, it takes 5 votes to eliminate.

Day 1 Deadline is at 11 PM UTC on Saturday August 8th; around 6 hours remain.

 

[Xivii]

#HBC | FrozeηFlame I know you want UP/Merc, but trust me on this. We need solidarity here.

#HBC | FrozeηFlame we shouldn't split our forces right now. Me, you, Chaco, Boom are all willing to yeet Darkpit. I see the points you're making, I do. But this is the only yeet we all agree on. Keep in mind, this is a majority yeet game. Darkpit's flip will help us understand the game state and the pushes around it, including myself and osie.

 

[Chaco]

I just think the push in Xivii was grimes as **** and definitely shouldn’t be pursued. And like I kind’ve understand Xivii I think a bit better now being concerned why I was saying what I was due to the aftermath. Like no, I wasn’t gonna jump on and wagon you ever.

We have less than 6 hours.

 

[osieorb18]

Telling you FF is town here.

• #41 - Vote for mercuri. RVS.
• #82 - There's a handful of soft points here and then sheeping (attempted pocket?) of Chaco on Somi, UP, and DP. Not really anything that progresses the game here. Also of note, he agrees with Chaco that UP doesn't seem scummy.
• #94 - So here he narrows himself out of not scumreading UP. Convenient.
• #155 - Addresses Xivii as top town. Uses Xivii and Xivii's posts rather than his own thoughts for reads. Also a decent share of "easy moments" in this post. Slight potential of progression of a UP read through defense of Xivii, but it's undercut by just how much he seems to be self-aware about setting things up.
• #241 - OMGUS push on UP. This post goes: OMGUS, Overreaction, overreaction, shade on anyone who doesn't agree with his opinion on the setup, extending that to throw dirt on UP (which he later does towards me as well by suggesting that I'm gambitting), easy shutdown of a bad idea from BoomFrog, takes two Xivii posts out of context to suggest that Xivii is contradicting himself, and then makes an offhanded OGI comment. This post is TERRIBLE.
• #253/#254 - Advocating for a policy elimination so he doesn't have to give reasons to vote people. Oh hey, his strongest townread Xivii was now always suspicious somehow. Convenient that this is when Xivii is voting for him.
• #255 - But let's not eliminate the person I just expressed suspicion on. (This is what's known as shade, kids!) Instead I'm going to go back to my other push so I can pretend to be consistent!
• #263 - Ah, back to hard townreading Xivii. Convenient how when Xivii has suggested that he might have more suspicions elsewhere, that's when FrozenFlame's read flips back. This feels like a pocketing attempt and is part of why I've never been confident on the team being exactly Xivii + FrozenFlame.
• #266 - UP hints at a potential useful role so FrozenFlame pushes UP. Then UP says "I'm town" which is apparently LAMIST. (Hint: It really isn't.)
• #267 - Implication of knowing for certain that scum have safeclaims. Feels like a scumslip.
• #271 - UP doubling down on not wanting to claim early is a backpedal because that's a way to phrase it to make UP look scummy.
• #274 - Openly making it so it doesn't matter how UP answers since it can be twisted into a scumtell. This is Scum 101.
• #435 - How dare you all disagree with me! And everyone worship Xivii's plan because it supports my agenda! Easy sheep of BoomFrog, conveniently letting someone else do the explaining again. Taking my post out of context of helping a new-looking player out as me getting a scumping on DP. Taking Chaco's post as a hard scumping instead of soft. "Scum shouldn't know about the roles of town to avoid them having good claims, but I still want a massclaim."
• #443 - Pushing for a policy elimination to happen "some time in the game". Because we wouldn't want to, y'know, actually scumhunt instead.
• #496 - The only indication is the title. This is overwrought. Then he goes as far as to essentially call me most likely "Dumb or Scum" as Xivii brought up elsewhere here, with only passing brief admissions that I might legitimately be town. At this point, this is just shade.
• #497 - Odd white-knighting of Xivii and continuing to treat Xivii as if FF is CONFIDENT that Xivii is town.
• #511 - But let's not forget mercuri! This is a lot of words about someone who FF doesn't feel should be eliminated Day 1.
• #512 - "I'm sticking with UP to continue pocketing Xivii."
• #514 - TMI of Darkpit as town, and implication that my PR claim is a gambit. Further soft push on me as a potential target to leap towards once he doesn't feel he can achieve UP.
• #703 - Chaco is locktown for agreeing with me (really because Chaco is townreading Frozen), wagon is bad. Then we have his response to my reads on him. He's just throwing **** all over the place here. And he throws in an exaggeration of my wording in the middle with the "only going after lurkers." This post is definitively unnecessary aggression. And note: Who is he trying to convince here? Because it's not me. Also of note: Again, FF is going after someone because they scumread him. I have the feeling that FF's anger towards merc this game may come explicitly from being partners with merc.
• #710 - "UP has faded to the background" while UP has been infinitely more productive than Frozen himself. And continuing on his OMGUS push on me.
• #712 - FF's argument for merc being scum is that FF is personally frustrated that merc wouldn't be more considerate of FF. This post also supports that.
• #715 - I'm going to defend myself with OGI because I can't be expected to play the game like everyone else! And then I'll springboard off of that with a pure OMGUS vote to assuage my own ego as caught scum! (Note: Regardless of Xivii's alignment, I have a mountain of respect for the fact that Xivii didn't do this.)
• #717 - I like how when I make a legitimate point he can't counter, he immediately switches to addressing me like a town player. When he just voted for me. Shows how legitimate his vote was, ehh?
• #720 - Here's my explanation of my read. I sincerely doubt that FF can manage anything of this caliber.

BoomFrog Chaco Darkpit54 mərcurı somitomi UtopianPoyzin Xivii

Here's my case on FrozenFlame. I will not vote for Darkpit today.

Also, FrozenFlame likely TMI's Xivii as town.

##Vote: FrozenFlame

 

[Darkpit54]

Me, you, Chaco, Boom

We need five to yeet someone. Osie has made it very clear that he won't vote me. I will never self-vote. Mer and UP are kinda mia, and we have six hours to achieve majority or no yeet.

We need to all agree on someone. While I don't really think it's optimal, I think the only person we'll get that on is Mer. Worst case scenario and they are town, at least we've removed a slot that's clearly not benefitting us at all

 

[Xivii]

We need five to yeet someone. Osie has made it very clear that he won't vote me. I will never self-vote. Mer and UP are kinda mia, and we have six hours to achieve majority or no yeet.

We need to all agree on someone. While I don't really think it's optimal, I think the only person we'll get that on is Mer. Worst case scenario and they are town, at least we've removed a slot that's clearly not benefitting us at all

UP will probably be online. Merc as well.

 

[osieorb18]

We need five to yeet someone. Osie has made it very clear that he won't vote me. I will never self-vote. Mer and UP are kinda mia, and we have six hours to achieve majority or no yeet.

We need to all agree on someone. While I don't really think it's optimal, I think the only person we'll get that on is Mer. Worst case scenario and they are town, at least we've removed a slot that's clearly not benefitting us at all

Read my Frozen PBPA.

 

[Darkpit54]

Also a decent share of "easy moments" in this post.

Can you explain what an easy moment is? You used it in your analysis of Xiv too

 

[osieorb18]

Can you explain what an easy moment is? You used it in your analysis of Xiv too

It's when someone is doing something that looks greater than rand!town on a surface level but is actually incredibly easy for scum to fake and therefore is just busywork.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

#HBC | FrozeηFlame we shouldn't split our forces right now. Me, you, Chaco, Boom are all willing to yeet Darkpit. I see the points you're making, I do. But this is the only yeet we all agree on. Keep in mind, this is a majority yeet game. Darkpit's flip will help us understand the game state and the pushes around it, including myself and osie.

not trying to split our forces but I really think people need to look at osies #653 & #654 because those posts actively misrepresent my play and state I asked for things I've never asked for

I'll join the DP wagon if that's the only one we can agree on, no lynch would be a huge waste of this dayphase

 

[Xivii]

Look, I'm going to lay out my cards now. I fully retract my read of UP. Like I said, the way he responded to my push the other night completely guiltless. And rereading with that in mind, it's obvious now. Chaco too with how objective he's been throughout the game, not pushing any particular agenda. Frozen is so obvtown. Osie's push on him is so grimy. It's so obvious that osie came into this game with the intent on saving darkpit. His whole play has been chainsaw defending him by attacking me and strawmanning the points against him as just low hanging fruit, when the case is actually pretty solid. I implore everyone to relook at Osie's play this day and how he immediately attacked me without really reading, and how hard he has been trying to save DP. DP absolutely gives us the best idea of the game state.

 

[Xivii]

not trying to split our forces but I really think people need to look at osies #653 & #654 because those posts actively misrepresent my play and state I asked for things I've never asked for

I'll join the DP wagon if that's the only one we can agree on, no lynch would be a huge waste of this dayphase

I'm right there with you, but osie yeet isn't happening today. Trust me on this. We'll take him out tomorrow. DP will flip scum.

 

[osieorb18]

Look, I'm going to lay out my cards now. I fully retract my read of UP. Like I said, the way he responded to my push the other night completely guiltless. And rereading with that in mind, it's obvious now. Chaco too with how objective he's been throughout the game, not pushing any particular agenda. Frozen is so obvtown. Osie's push on him is so grimy. It's so obvious that osie came into this game with the intent on saving darkpit. His whole play has been chainsaw defending him by attacking me and strawmanning the points against him as just low hanging fruit, when the case is actually pretty solid. I implore everyone to relook at Osie's play this day and how he immediately attacked me without really reading, and how hard he has been trying to save DP. DP absolutely gives us the best idea of the game state.

If you think I'm trying to defend Darkpit, then eliminate me.

 

[Xivii]

Like just look how hard osie has been trying to push anyone not DP after my wagon died down. He's going for anyone, even Merc who he was against yeeting before. His whole play was banked on saving DP today and he's digging in hard.

 

[Xivii]

If you think I'm trying to defend Darkpit, then eliminate me.

If you think I'm trying to defend Darkpit, then eliminate me.

lol what kind of town would ever say this

 

[Chaco]

Could be partner trying to save his mate? I thought Osie was objectively town from a perspective of how he came in and handled the replacing. With that being said though, 3DS didn’t do his “I’m town and will catch up eventually and post here cause I don’t wanna get NKd or lynched D1” ****ty meta there but something to think about

 

[Darkpit54]

Xivii, what's your play after I flip town? Do you trust Osie or do you think the defense comes from TMI? Who on my wagon do you think was or would be opportunistic?

Same question to Chaco

 

[Darkpit54]

I find it super unlikely that Osie wouldn't just hardbus after replacing in with a fairly large wagon already on me, right?

 

[osieorb18]

lol what kind of town would ever say this

Town who knows they will die during the nightphase for trueclaiming protective.

 

[Xivii]

Town who knows they will die during the nightphase for trueclaiming protective.

Then why would it make sense to yeet you??

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

osie trying to spin a narrative of me "not actually wanting to yeet merc" is so deliberately obtuse it's getting boring at this point. I've been the only one seriously advocating for policy lynching the slot today, other slots have essentially told me that it isn't happening and they won't realistically look at that move until atleast D2. it's gross af that he's trying to make ME look like the slot advocating for pumping the brakes on policy lynching that slot and accusing me of "having opinions about later, not now" and "having a lot of thoughts on a slot he doesn't want to lynch D1". this is literally ahistorical drivel

and how much of a reach is this holy ****:

"#717 - I like how when I make a legitimate point he can't counter, he immediately switches to addressing me like a town player. When he just voted for me. Shows how legitimate his vote was, ehh? "

we were literally having a META debate about what slots can do to control a rogue mate and now he's trying to frame it as a "point I couldn't counter?" wtf? I was literally acknowledging that his contribution to the meta discussion was valid and its obviously null af for the purposes of my reads this game, I honestly shocked that osie is interpreting this as me trying to "counter him" like talk about defensive

 

[osieorb18]

osie trying to spin a narrative of me "not actually wanting to yeet merc" is so deliberately obtuse it's getting boring at this point. I've been the only one seriously advocating for policy lynching the slot today, other slots have essentially told me that it isn't happening and they won't realistically look at that move until atleast D2. it's gross af that he's trying to make ME look like the slot advocating for pumping the brakes on policy lynching that slot and accusing me of "having opinions about later, not now" and "having a lot of thoughts on a slot he doesn't want to lynch D1". this is literally ahistorical drivel

Strawman argument. I've pointed out that you haven't pushed very hard to get people to agree with you. That's not saying that "You don't actually want to eliminate merc".

 

[Chaco]

Osie was never on you though? they basically immediately picked up on to Xivii.

And you as town or scum basically leaves me in the same position minus those who hard pushed you and wasn’t opportunistic in doing so. I don’t see a lot of opportunism on your wagon, I see more multifaceted gathering of differing views point pointing to the same idea in differing ways. So it would be harder to say that people pushing those views points would be as scummy as late comers who didn’t express a concern in that.

 

[osieorb18]

Then why would it make sense to yeet you??

Because my role is relatively likely to be useless at this point and I'd rather stand by my convictions and protect town Darkpit. If you think I'm scum defending Darkpit, regardless of what you believe about Darkpit, I should be the elimination here.

In practice, you should take your head out of Frozen's pocket instead.

 

[Chaco]

If frozen is scum I’m mad I didn’t roll scum with him. But he’s not, so I’m not mad

 

[BoomFrog]

Boom/DP could be a team, but Boom is categorically outside of the bottom 3 too.

Again, in what world? I've spearheaded the DP yeet. How can this be a consideration?

FF with another wolfy pop-in...

There's 7 hours left in the day phase.

BoomFrog Chaco Darkpit54 somitomi Xivii

Frozen or Mercuri? That's the way to go here. I'm probably dying tonight anyways, so maybe y'all can make it not be for naught?

If you die and DP is town I promise to seriously consider FF.

253/#254 - Advocating for a policy elimination so he doesn't have to give reasons to vote people. Oh hey, his strongest townread Xivii was now always suspicious somehow. Convenient that this is when Xivii is voting for him.

I read your whole case and find a lot of your points to be very biased interpretations and not convincing. I think some of that is your unfamiliar with FF's style, but the rest is either scum motivated or confirmation bias.

However this above quote send completely false. I don't see how 253 or 254 indicate a scum read of Xivii at all.

Your desperateness to protect DP is concerning and I'm not going to follow you to another yeet. Your only points in DP's defense have been repeating "they feel so town". How about addressing my actual points? You've never even mentioned the B game logic issue.

 

[osieorb18]

we were literally having a META debate about what slots can do to control a rogue mate and now he's trying to frame it as a "point I couldn't counter?" wtf? I was literally acknowledging that his contribution to the meta discussion was valid and its obviously null af for the purposes of my reads this game, I honestly shocked that osie is interpreting this as me trying to "counter him" like talk about defensive

Again, a strawman argument. I pointed out that he has a contradiction from talking to me like a townread while voting for me.

 

[Chaco]

NK will probably be more revealing as who to push toMorrow from the stronger players, who don’t give as much room for tells. (If DP isn’t scum if we were going here)

But if I was scum I would kill Mercuri to leave no paper trail.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Strawman argument. I've pointed out that you haven't pushed very hard to get people to agree with you. That's not saying that "You don't actually want to eliminate merc".

not at all a strawman argument, you literally said:

"#511 - But let's not forget mercuri! This is a lot of words about someone who FF doesn't feel should be eliminated Day 1. "

This is patently false. I have repeatedly said that merc is a good D1 play. everyone else told me to chill out on the policy lynching blatant refusals to play by the slot for various reasons. what else exactly am I supposed to argue? the slot literally gives me nothing to work with, your setting an impossible burden of proof here. how else exactly am I supposed to push the merc slot other than calling bull**** on his refusal to play? the disagreement other slots have with that policy lynch entirely comes down to value/fundamental strategy differences

 

[Darkpit54]

Osie was never on you though? they basically immediately picked up on to Xivii.

And you as town or scum basically leaves me in the same position minus those who hard pushed you and wasn’t opportunistic in doing so. I don’t see a lot of opportunism on your wagon, I see more multifaceted gathering of differing views point pointing to the same idea in differing ways. So it would be harder to say that people pushing those views points would be as scummy as late comers who didn’t express a concern in that.

I never said he was? And it seems like my misyeet gives you no new information lol, something to think about. I don't see Osie as scum here, ever. Maybe I've been hard pocketed, but I don't think so

 

[BoomFrog]

I'm about to be gone for the day. osieorb18 You can't be scum unless DP is scum imo. But it's possible DP is scum and you are just wrong. So I'll yeet DP first. Yeeting you because you would get shot anyway doesn't make sense. The NE target is the person scum most wants to get rid of, which means they are the last person we should yeet. Let's not do scum's work for them.

 

[osieorb18]

Again, in what world? I've spearheaded the DP yeet. How can this be a consideration?


If you die and DP is town I promise to seriously consider FF.

I read your whole case and find a lot of your points to be very biased interpretations and not convincing. I think some of that is your unfamiliar with FF's style, but the rest is either scum motivated or confirmation bias.

However this above quote send completely false. I don't see how 253 or 254 indicate a scum read of Xivii at all.

Your desperateness to protect DP is concerning and I'm not going to follow you to another yeet. Your only points in DP's defense have been repeating "they feel so town". How about addressing my actual points? You've never even mentioned the B game logic issue.

Because there isn't something to mention. It's an innocent tone that people are reading into like crazy.

DP is incredibly pure newish town.

The frustrating part of this post is that you've set things up so that Frozen can choose not to kill me now and argue that I just was falseclaiming.

DP's posts are friendly and trying to help contribute. He's putting himself out there and trying to analyze what information he can see. He doesn't show any of the awkwardness of a first scumgame, instead being offbeat in ways that reflect trying to grow as a new town player.

That's why I say I'd never vote for DP. Because he wants to play the game. He wants the game to be positive. And that's never scum motivated.

FF wants to make the game a ****fest. He borders on toxicity and lurks out. He's happy with a DP miselimination, so he's willing to vote there.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Again, a strawman argument. I pointed out that he has a contradiction from talking to me like a townread while voting for me.

what are you talking about? this is the exchange, #717 is the last quote block:

you understand that no player in any game of mafia can actually do anything to control a slot from playing however they want right? If merc is scum and banking on the "I'm too obvscum to be scum" strategy, there is literally no way any mate of his could do anything to stop him from playing that strategy. you're projecting your own personal willingness to accommodate the preferences/pleadings of scummates here

They could hardbus him into the ground in disgust.
tough bullet to bite in a small game but fair point. this still only would limit a trolling mate's antics to one day phase, can't stop the person instantaneously, and is of course reliant on convincing town slots to join the bus so it can't be done unilaterally for any immediate effect

tough bullet to bite in a small game but fair point. this still only would limit a trolling mate's antics to one day phase, can't stop the person instantaneously, and is of course reliant on convincing town slots to join the bus so it can't be done unilaterally for any immediate effect

you posted this: " #717 - I like how when I make a legitimate point he can't counter, he immediately switches to addressing me like a town player. When he just voted for me. Shows how legitimate his vote was, ehh?"

I wasn't trying to "counter" any point, I was acknowledging that you saying a hardbus is some for of an answer to a completely rogue scummate was a valid point that I didn't think about when I was trying to make the point to DP that scum can't fundamentally control what their mates do

 

[osieorb18]

I'm about to be gone for the day. osieorb18 You can't be scum unless DP is scum imo. But it's possible DP is scum and you are just wrong. So I'll yeet DP first. Yeeting you because you would get shot anyway doesn't make sense. The NE target is the person scum most wants to get rid of, which means they are the last person we should yeet. Let's not do scum's work for them.

But you already are.

 

[BoomFrog]

I never said he was? And it seems like my misyeet gives you no new information lol, something to think about. I don't see Osie as scum here, ever. Maybe I've been hard pocketed, but I don't think so

If you are town then Osie is lock town, so that's something. And you should be thinking that xivii and I are likely scum for pushing you. That would be new info to Chaco in this case. It's concerning that you don't see this.

 

[osieorb18]

what are you talking about?

When you have your hard scumread on me, that means you believe I'm not trying to analyze the game. If you turn around and talk to me as if I am trying to analyze the game, then you're talking to your hard scumread as if they are town. That's a macro-micro contradiction.

It has nothing to do with the actual point that you made. I'm catching you on tone in a micro-macro tonal contradiction.

 

[BoomFrog]

K, I gtg. Xivii ping me about your progression D2 if you still care then. No time to do it toDay.

 

[osieorb18]

If you are town then Osie is lock town, so that's something. And you should be thinking that xivii and I are likely scum for pushing you. That would be new info to Chaco in this case. It's concerning that you don't see this.

Exactly. If Darkpit is eliminated, I die for sure. So let's cut out the middle man.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

yikes I botched my formatting #754, this is the meta exchange I'm referring to

you understand that no player in any game of mafia can actually do anything to control a slot from playing however they want right? If merc is scum and banking on the "I'm too obvscum to be scum" strategy, there is literally no way any mate of his could do anything to stop him from playing that strategy. you're projecting your own personal willingness to accommodate the preferences/pleadings of scummates here

They could hardbus him into the ground in disgust.

tough bullet to bite in a small game but fair point. this still only would limit a trolling mate's antics to one day phase, can't stop the person instantaneously, and is of course reliant on convincing town slots to join the bus so it can't be done unilaterally for any immediate effect