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COMPLETELY VANILLA Mafia | Game Over

#HBC | Kary

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Votecount 1-13

[2] Xivii : UtopianPoyzin, somitomi,
[2] Darkpit54: Boomfrog, Xivii
[1] UtopianPoyzin : #HBC FrozeηFlame

[4] Not Voting: mərcurı, Darkpit54, osieorb18, Chaco

With 9 alive, it takes 5 votes to eliminate.

Day 1 Deadline is at 11 PM UTC on Saturday August 8th; under 10 hours remain.
 

Chaco

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Could you restate this. I can't understand your point?

Also the point of a B game is nothing is standard. I don't know the culture here, but on XKCD B games had to say they were B games.
Yeah it typo’d bad on me. I meant that from what he said about his role when I asked him about it again, it was basically nothing that would indicative B modding at all. His role is pretty standard tbh.

And all games I played that were B modded were told it was that as well, but non B modding that was still using “bad” roles would even state that often times
 

Chaco

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Alright so can’t vote Kary therefore officially not a ******* game.
 

Darkpit54

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At this point though I’m almost just cool with policy lynching mercuri, and I know we could get enough traction for that.

cause the taunting back at people is just pointless. It’s blatant refusal.
This is so incredibly not the play, even if it would be insanely satisfying lol

I don't think scum does that unless DP is their mate
This. Osie isn't scum unless I am, which is why I'm so confident in him lol. If your reasoning for yeeting him is his interaction with me, that... wouldn't make a lot of sense lol. I think you switched off of this but it confused me at the time.

Darkpit54 Darkpit54 Darkpit54 Darkpit54 sorry if you are town here. Can you try explaining again to me why you thought your role might be *******?
I'll try to explain my thought process as clearly as I can, but I'm not great at that so we'll see how that goes.

I was trying to put myself into the shoes of the other townies who didn't know my alignment. From their perspective, I realized that my role wouldn't be ******* even if I was scum, because my alignment was never announced. I then extended that to the fact that it would have only had the capability of being ******* if it had been announced and then was false. This was the assumption I went to because I don't really see a full Innocent Child in a game claiming to be Completely Vanilla, even if that was already clearly misleading. So the only way I could see me being an IC was if my alignment was different and this was a ******* game.

That's probably a leap or faulty logic but hopefully you can at least see where I was coming from.

Alright so can’t vote Kary therefore officially not a ******* game.
Is this an actual thing? I didn't really think it was a ******* game anyway but like... this way of figuring it out is kinda whack lol

Wanna let everyone know I probably won't be here around deadline, so hopefully we can figure stuff out pretty early today or I can at least give my input before I have to leave :/
 

Darkpit54

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now is showing some depth I don’t remember out of him last game
Is depth good? If it's growth, you can't really not expect such from someone who has so few games and just gained a lot of confidence from a pretty good one. If it's bad... oops? I don't really know what you mean by this but I'm curious so I can improve, even if you tell me post-game

Key differences here with DP I think are, he wants to usually have faith in putting a vote behind someone, but here it looks like he’s trying to offload his vote quickly and easier. Also a big thing that pinged me was saying he was more confused in this game and no posts translated that to me.

DP is the okay toDay.
What about my vote seemed unfaithful? I've been going back and forth on if Xivii is scum all game. I have a lot of faith in Osie, and Xivii's responses during their argument seemed telling. I missed Somi's vote when I voted, so when I realized it was L-1 I unvoted immediately.

I have a theory that DP says "lol" more when nervous. But when I checked back to last game DP said lol more then I remember so I don't trust my perception there. I'd be curious to find a ratio of lol use and see if it went up but don't know a non tedious way of determining that
Boom is really smart. You're all really smart. What the heck lol. I have no idea if this is accurate. Probably at least somewhat, but I use it in a lot of ways so I'm not sure how much you can gain from this. I use it to make sentences seem more casual or lighthearted, to make it clear that something is a joke, when something sounds way more confident or aggressive than I meant for it to... but if you can decipher something from it good on ya. I definitely can't. I'll be sure to watch for this once I finally roll scum so thank you for this lol
 

Xivii

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Chaco Chaco would you say
It's a lot of tearing people down.



I... don't think Mala was relevant. Mala had JUST started.



Probably a full reevaluation, but I'd be looking particularly closely at interactions or lack thereof with Darkpit.
Can you point out what you mean by tearing people down?

Sorry, I'm not sure what you meant by your statement then.

Can you give a shotgun read list based on scum!Darkpit. It's not something I'm going to hold you to of course. Obviously your reads will be refined in rereading, but I'd like to see what your current perception of how a scum!Darkpit would shift things around for you.
 

Chaco

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Yeah I was wondering what you meant til I saw beneath it.
 

osieorb18

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At this point though I’m almost just cool with policy lynching mercuri, and I know we could get enough traction for that.

cause the taunting back at people is just pointless. It’s blatant refusal.
I hate policy eliminations and I'm kinda okay with this anyways.
 

Chaco

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Darkpit54 Darkpit54 I just can’t tell with you as much this game, and because you were so blatantly town last game it’s bothering me. Depth is indicative of growth, yes, but in such a small ramp up period I guess I didn’t expect it? But in a lot of ways you’re staying true to what I see last game from you. Your town play to me is a team player that hinges a lot on a TL to bounce things off of, which follows suit here as well. There is just something about your slot that keeps throwing me off, and I can’t 100% identify it. There’s definitely a tonal difference that I would expect from you scum you. But then there’s the “following suit”s that is highly indicative of what I’ve seen your town play to be. Maybe your growth is why I don’t see the “purity” from asking questions that nailed you as town last game. Idk. I’m mulling it over.
 

Chaco

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I hate policy eliminations and I'm kinda okay with this anyways.
Well it’s passive responses back to Boom and in no way helpful to town. Unless they’re a jester or bomb or something and I’d be pissed that they played it perfectly
 

Darkpit54

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Pros and Cons of yeeting Mer:

Pros
  • All slots will actually be contributing
  • Removes a potential mate from a lottt of people due to the fact that Mer could be scum with pretty much anyone
  • No evidence of townie intent

Cons
  • We get literally no information from this
  • There's a good chance this is actually town refusing to contribute
Are we sure this would be worth it? Obviously the slot is annoying but I'm really not sold that it's scum
 

Darkpit54

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Wait. Mer would have a scummate. Everyone else in this game has been at least somewhat active. I don't think I see anyone letting their mate get away with that, right?
 

Chaco

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Cause literally at this point the two viable wagons we have had thus far were DP and Xivii. Xivii’s wagon seemed much more likely to have scum on it due to the quick acceleration. But they all had “viable” reasons for joining on the wagon, so it’s not distinctly scummy in itself.
 

Xivii

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Xivii Xivii Xivii Xivii The cognitive bias stuff was a response to you saying you felt like you had changed dimensions since everyone started saying "angley". Figures that your job is related to cognitive stuff.
OH I see yeah I was just being fun with the dimension-hopping.
I have a theory that DP says "lol" more when nervous. But when I checked back to last game DP said lol more then I remember so I don't trust my perception there. I'd be curious to find a ratio of lol use and see if it went up but don't know a non tedious way of determining that.
I picked up on this as well, though my thinking was that he was putting conscious effort into using lol in order to make sure he is properly emulating his natural use. If you skim that off-site game I linked, the difference is salient. That being said, while it's interesting, I wouldn't say be comfortable marking it as a point against him.
Dropping the DP push only to reluctantly tag along with me is also very concerning.
Could you, using quotes and your interpretation of them, layout the timeline of this.
Also the point of a B game is nothing is standard. I don't know the culture here, but on XKCD B games had to say they were B games.
This is indeed the case. The last b-game we had was Video Game Mafia 2 (this was the game where UP didn't actually count as a player, so we could bus him while progressing toward parity).
 

osieorb18

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I refuse to elim DP. I'm more and more convinced that he's town the more I read of him.

Chaco Chaco would you say
Can you point out what you mean by tearing people down?

Sorry, I'm not sure what you meant by your statement then.

Can you give a shotgun read list based on scum!Darkpit. It's not something I'm going to hold you to of course. Obviously your reads will be refined in rereading, but I'd like to see what your current perception of how a scum!Darkpit would shift things around for you.
I mean, I'm actually even more convinced that Darkpit is town with their posts on this page, but okay. Scum!Darkpit...

UP starting vote doesn't feel like a bus.
Talk with Xivii on pg 1 could be theatre.
Maybe Chaco is trying to provide IC cover when he knows it's just the Noisy Child?
UP may be doing some theatre with DP on pg 2. Actually, that would be a LOT of theatre. It's not completely untoward, but it's meh.
Somi might be unaligned?
Somi, UP, and Xivii all seem unaligned from DP on pg 3.
Chaco's handling of DP doesn't look THAT painful.

%%%

Frozen, Mercuri... I'm exclusively at a Frozen/Mercuri/Xivii elim. At least I sorta feel like somi should be set aside for toDay.

That said, I'm sorta inclined to believe that there's at least one scum in somi/merc.

%%%

Yeah, I got to the Frozen post I hated the most again, #241, and teammates for DP still seem like Frozen/Mercuri.

Frozen & Mercuri are generally two of the scummiest players in the thread. I was giving Mercuri the benefit of the doubt, but they've wasted away the whole day phase now.
 

osieorb18

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Boom/DP could be a team, but Boom is categorically outside of the bottom 3 too.
 

#HBC | FrozeηFlame

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Votecount 1-11

[4] Xivii : osieorb18, UtopianPoyzin, somitomi, Darkpit
[2] UtopianPoyzin : #HBC FrozeηFlame, Xivii
[1] Darkpit54: Boomfrog
[1] somitomi : Chaco

[1] Not Voting: mərcurı

With 9 alive, it takes 5 votes to eliminate.

Day 1 Deadline is at 11 PM UTC on Saturday August 8th; approximately 31 hours remain.
if there aren't multiple scum on this xivii push I'll eat my shoe

osieorb18 osieorb18 How do you feel about how quickly this wagon got to L-1, and do you feel any jumps into this wagon are unjustified/opportunistic?
chaco asking the right people the right questions

I’m surprised he hasn’t considered Somi/DP either. When Somi and DP have little stance or talking about one another and both votes say on his own wagon. Inexperienced scum team hopping in the wagon while the getting me good?
ok chaco can be locktown now

I think Darkpit's opportunism on the Xivii train is pretty apparent considering how strongly he concluded UP before. Honestly, if this yeet doesn't go through, then I really don't know what to say.

##Vote: Darkpit

I also have to reconsider osie, somi, and Merc. Something isn't lining up. Chaco and UP aren't DP's mate. Boom is looking less likely so. Frozen is town. So I need to reevaluate. For now though, I'm exhausted thinking about this game.
if that wagon was our lynch pool I'm so ****ing confident that we have a 50/50 shot at hitting scum even if we picked randomly

Frozen has a combination of low activity (One of the least active posters in the thread), unnecessary aggression (most of their posts), easy pushes (going mostly for lurkers and LHF), and fence sitting ("I don't have opinions about now, just about endgame").

I put him as the next scummiest player after Xivii for good reason, and I think that he's sorta just gotten a pass and skated through the day phase, whereas Xivii has actually shown a bit of energy to try to fight for the game.
what's your definition of "one of the least active?" bottom 50%? because I've objectively contributed more that merc and somi just on pure volume, my paper trail is FAR more meaningful that UP's useless LAMISTing, and I think in terms of volume I'm probably just under boom so this is a lame, lazy jab that abuses interpretive degrees of freedom to seem like a legitimate criticism of my slot

where have I been "unnecessarily aggressive"? what does that even mean? is using words that get censored what you consider unnecessarily aggressive? or are you trying to shade my legitimate gripes with UPs play by calling my push for the slot "aggressive"? funnily enough this contradicts the very next point you make saying I'm "only going after lurkers" which is definitionally untrue considering I've said UP is the play for awhile now. accurately calling out merc's slot for being the nightmare endgame liability that it is is not "only going after lurkers"

this fencesitting allegation is just blatantly untrue and is a massive mischaracterization of my problems with the merc slot and non-contributing slots in general, like seriously is anyone else who's actually reading this game seeing me fence sitting anywhere? how can be "fencesitting" yet "unnecessarily aggressive" at the same time? am I pushing people or not bro make up your mind. you're literally ignoring my very clearly stated scum read on UP which I'm pretty sure is an opinion about "now." suggesting that I only have opinions about endgame because I called one slot a blatant endgame liability is so grimy and disingenuous

Heck, FF is even openly asking people not to interact with him.
this is also blatantly false, link to where I've done this?

FF is always gonna be lower activity, for meta sake here.
He’s a lawyer at a larger firm iirc.
these are both true, anyone with experience playing with me knows that my activity is feast or famine depending on irl schedule/workload changes

At this point though I’m almost just cool with policy lynching mercuri, and I know we could get enough traction for that.

cause the taunting back at people is just pointless. It’s blatant refusal.
finally someone else seeing the same middle finger I'm seeing from the slot

Alright so can’t vote Kary therefore officially not a ******* game.
I don't think we have sufficient evidence to necessarily warrant this conclusion but I understand where you're coming from. being able to vote for the mod is a common B-game mechanic but definitely not inherent to ALL B-games, I've played in many without such a mechanic. I really don't think we're in a B-game though and the scum are just confused as hell about it

Wait. Mer would have a scummate. Everyone else in this game has been at least somewhat active. I don't think I see anyone letting their mate get away with that, right?
how exactly could a scummate do anything to prevent a troll slot like merc's from going all in on a gambit strategy of playing so overtly anti town that they couldn't be anti town? yell at them in scum chat? seriously you buying into the WIFOM logic of "no scum would throw this hard" and trying to legitimize it by saying "cmon guys obviously if his mates asked nicely he'd stop actively trolling? right?" is suss af
 

Xivii

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If your reasoning for yeeting him is his interaction with me, that... wouldn't make a lot of sense lol. I think you switched off of this but it confused me at the time.
What are you referring to here? I don't recall Boom voting osie, but I could have missed it.
 

Darkpit54

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how exactly could a scummate do anything to prevent a troll slot like merc's from going all in on a gambit strategy of playing so overtly anti town that they couldn't be anti town? yell at them in scum chat? seriously you buying into the WIFOM logic of "no scum would throw this hard" and trying to legitimize it by saying "cmon guys obviously if his mates asked nicely he'd stop actively trolling? right?" is suss af
I've never been scum, so I don't really know how the dynamics of scum chat work. However, a lot of people mentioned this when discussing 3ds last game and it seemed like a valid point with Mer as well. You obviously know more about this than me but I don't see scum doing this unless they're trying to bus.

What are you referring to here? I don't recall Boom voting osie, but I could have missed it.
He never voted, but he seemed to be implying he could be a yeet option but really only cited his defense of me as the reason. It was confusing, and I may have misinterpreted it, but that's what I got from it lol.

Give me a sec for the other question
 

Chaco

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Yeah I just based it off of common ******* mechanics of being able to vote the mod, it’s not always a mechanic, but it generally is one if the game has no indication of being *******. But then again I’ve only played in like one maybe two B games, can’t entirely remember and I wanna say they were on MS which was more commonplace for modvotes.
 

#HBC | FrozeηFlame

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merc can go as a policy lynch

UP still feels grime to me and for a slot that was so gung-ho at the start of dayphase he really has faded to the background which doesn't make me feel any better about the slot

osie was redeeming the 3DSninja just based on sheer effort but I really don't know if I'm giving him too much credit because I've never played with him before and have no idea if he's a legit power wolf that I'm just not respecting. his attacks on my slot are just straight up characterizations of my play and I think anyone who's actually been paying attention to what I've contributed this game will see that. the think about the attacks is they're either intended to strawman me or are just lazy gut reads that he doesn't actually want to admit are lazy gut reads, but that doesn't follow at all given how thorough his posting has been since he entered the game. #653 and #654 are just plain gross, "hard claiming" protective to stifle consensus around the mass claim felt scum motivated as I've stated before, and presence on the xiivi opportunist wagon tell me this slot can absolutely go
 

#HBC | FrozeηFlame

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I've never been scum, so I don't really know how the dynamics of scum chat work. However, a lot of people mentioned this when discussing 3ds last game and it seemed like a valid point with Mer as well. You obviously know more about this than me but I don't see scum doing this unless they're trying to bus
you understand that no player in any game of mafia can actually do anything to control a slot from playing however they want right? If merc is scum and banking on the "I'm too obvscum to be scum" strategy, there is literally no way any mate of his could do anything to stop him from playing that strategy. you're projecting your own personal willingness to accommodate the preferences/pleadings of scummates here
 

osieorb18

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Telling you FF is town here. So Mercuri definitely.
Okay.

##Vote: Mercuri

Xivii Xivii I feel like you're talking to Darkpit like you think he's town while pushing for his elimination at the same time, and I really don't like that.
 

osieorb18

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you understand that no player in any game of mafia can actually do anything to control a slot from playing however they want right? If merc is scum and banking on the "I'm too obvscum to be scum" strategy, there is literally no way any mate of his could do anything to stop him from playing that strategy. you're projecting your own personal willingness to accommodate the preferences/pleadings of scummates here
They could hardbus him into the ground in disgust.
 

#HBC | FrozeηFlame

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FF with another wolfy pop-in...
oh ok I get it so I'm lurking scum when I don't have time to post and when I do get time to post I'm doing a "wolfy pop in"

everyone else seeing this convenient double bind he's trying to use to shade my slot without substance right before deadline?

##Unvote: UtopianPoyzin
##Vote: osieorb18
 

Darkpit54

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Also Darkpit54 Darkpit54 what would you say the merits are of a Boom/Osie team?
osieorb18 - Came into the thread with a hard defense of DP. I don't think scum does that unless DP is their mate. There have been a few key interactions that make me think they aren't mates with DP, but if DP flips scum I will take a second look. If DP is town then this is a hard town read. Tone had been very townie so that's a plus as well.
Nvm I clearly misread this lol

They're townreading eachother, but Boom's is so strong I doubt that comes from a mate. Diametrically opposed on my slot means they could easily push a misyeet from multiple different directions. Still, Mer is a slot both could easily yeet. If Osie is scum I could see them being a team.

Why'd you pick those two specifically?
 

#HBC | FrozeηFlame

BRoomer
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They could hardbus him into the ground in disgust.
tough bullet to bite in a small game but fair point. this still only would limit a trolling mate's antics to one day phase, can't stop the person instantaneously, and is of course reliant on convincing town slots to join the bus so it can't be done unilaterally for any immediate effect
 

osieorb18

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oh ok I get it so I'm lurking scum when I don't have time to post and when I do get time to post I'm doing a "wolfy pop in"

everyone else seeing this convenient double bind he's trying to use to shade my slot without substance right before deadline?

##Unvote: UtopianPoyzin
##Vote: osieorb18
Sorry, I'm not going to get into an ego-measuring contest with you.
 

Darkpit54

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Mer is obvious LHF. I feel like scum could be on their wagon either way, because they're an easy misyeet or an easy bus.

I think I understand your point, Frozen. Although I don't really see the point of playing mafia if you're completely unwilling to work as a team, I suppose it is a possibility

About to look up what exactly a jester role usually entails lol

Yeah I just based it off of common ******* mechanics of being able to vote the mod, it’s not always a mechanic, but it generally is one if the game has no indication of being *******. But then again I’ve only played in like one maybe two B games, can’t entirely remember and I wanna say they were on MS which was more commonplace for modvotes.
Okay thanks. The game Xiv linked had this too in RVS so I believe it's commonplace here too
 

#HBC | FrozeηFlame

BRoomer
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Sorry, I'm not going to get into an ego-measuring contest with you.
what does ego have anything to do with me calling you out for attacking me in a grimey and baseless way?

are you going to actually address the contradictions in your attempts to shade my slot that I point out in #703 or are you just going to handwave it?

didn't you try to get at Xiivi earlier for "handwaving" away your attacks on his slot? why the change of heart?
 
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