COMPLETELY VANILLA Mafia | Game Over

[#HBC | Kary]

Votecount 1-12

[2] Xivii : UtopianPoyzin, somitomi,
[2] Darkpit54: Boomfrog, Xivii
[1] UtopianPoyzin : #HBC FrozeηFlame
[1] somitomi : Chaco

[3] Not Voting: mərcurı, Darkpit54, osieorb18

With 9 alive, it takes 5 votes to eliminate.

Day 1 Deadline is at 11 PM UTC on Saturday August 8th; under 24 hours remain.

 

[somitomi]

I guess I don't really see the difference between in favor and strongly in favor haha. I actually despise language like that. It just makes it so you don't actually have to commit. Like imagine a group of friends deciding where to go to eat and everyone is like "I'm somewhat in favor of going to Chick-fil-a," "I'm somewhat in favor of going to McDonals" and then they just sit on there arse because of their complacency. **** like that irks me to no end so I tend to take up the mantle of pullout out the teeth of what everyone actually wants.

But it wasn't that, it was "in favor" and "okay with it". Imagine a group of friends, where two people want Burger King, two people want KFC and the rest of them say "I'm okay with Burger King" or "either's fine". I think it's reasonable to let the opinionated folks battle it out if the rest of the group isn't committed to either choice. Particularly because some of the "rest" had some reservations about mass claiming.
On the other hand, I can see that we wouldn't do much if someone didn't take charge in such matters. I guess I was suspicious about you trying to force this because noone else piped up in favor of mass claim while this whole debate was going on. I guess a re-evaluation is pending, but it's 1 in the morning for me.

 

[BoomFrog]

i believe i was suspicious of frog for shading my low activity yet never actively attempting to read me

This is the abyssal darkness of deep space calling the kettle black.

Do you think you've presented enough content to be readable?

Are you just like, skimming the thread?

 

[Chaco]

We have less than 24 hours. What’s the play?@osieorb18 BoomFrog #HBC | FrozeηFlame Xivii Darkpit54 UtopianPoyzin somitomi

Eff trying to tag Mercuri and copy paste that

 

[Chaco]

Xivii yeet has like no one outspoken against it, so it felt that wagon ran up way to fast.

DP would be a better play than Xivii imo. I know no one will co-sign me but I still want Somi. Can we just hardbody Somi last 24 hours?

 

[Chaco]

The only options for a DP partner potentials are Somi, Mercuri, and less likely UP or Osie

Xivii has been on the slot too much, so has Boom, and iirc FF as well.

 

[Chaco]

Darkpit54 What does your role basically do? No abilities or anything that’s obvious, but you never gave us anything as far as what your role says etc. Like does it say you just get named? What? I’m really curious to hear this.

First post of the game is a low key fish for Cop talk if scumDP

 

[Chaco]

Xivii you’re familiar with Kary, what’s the likelihood that Kary would give a named safeclaim and announce it?

 

[Xivii]

Xivii you’re familiar with Kary, what’s the likelihood that Kary would give a named safeclaim and announce it?

I don't think there's a way to say one way or the other.

 

[osieorb18]

mərcurı BoomFrog Chaco Xivii UtopianPoyzin somitomi Darkpit54

I'm feeling like the best elimination overall at this point is FrozenFlame.

 

[Chaco]

Why Frozen here?

 

[Chaco]

Cause from perspective and content here I’m reading FF as town, and that seems to be a pretty across the board read.

 

[osieorb18]

Cause from perspective and content here I’m reading FF as town, and that seems to be a pretty across the board read.

Really?

So here's my thought process:

We seem to be backing down from a Xivii elimination quite reasonably.

Frozen has a combination of low activity (One of the least active posters in the thread), unnecessary aggression (most of their posts), easy pushes (going mostly for lurkers and LHF), and fence sitting ("I don't have opinions about now, just about endgame").

I put him as the next scummiest player after Xivii for good reason, and I think that he's sorta just gotten a pass and skated through the day phase, whereas Xivii has actually shown a bit of energy to try to fight for the game.

 

[osieorb18]

Heck, FF is even openly asking people not to interact with him.

 

[Darkpit54]

Darkpit54 What does your role basically do? No abilities or anything that’s obvious, but you never gave us anything as far as what your role says etc. Like does it say you just get named? What? I’m really curious to hear this.

First post of the game is a low key fish for Cop talk if scumDP

I don't think I really understand what new info you want here that wouldn't just be quoting mod communication lol. It says I have no active abilities, and says I have the passive ability that my role will be announced at the start of the game. There's a cute picture of a little kid playing the drums.

Is that what you wanted to know? I'm kinda confused lol

About to reread Frozen, a little confused on why he's the play today

 

[Chaco]

Yeah that’s all I wanted to know, thanks. That’s as much as you can possibly elaborate it I would imagine.

I just don’t see FF flipping scum here at all. The “aggression” ,which I would say is more being direct, is more indicative of town here I think, last game as scum he was saying “good read” “solid point” etc and he’s not doing that here but forming his own opinions. I got hella town pings off that one post where I said after that’s town Frozen.

So FF is off the table here, you’d be fighting an uphill battle to convince anyone there I think.

Why not low content Somi? Possible slip up early in the game which we never got to check on, low interactions and safe stances mostly across the board. Generally easy to forget their slot rn. Lurkscum?

 

[Chaco]

FF is always gonna be lower activity, for meta sake here.

 

[Darkpit54]

That ISO was really short lol, and a lot of it wasn't really much I could make note of

Mildly interesting that he hasn't posted in over 24 hours despite being so vocally against lurkers, but I imagine he has some irl complications tying into that

alright so UP is scum, all this slot does is LAMIST and then deflect and backpedal to avoid real conflict with any slot, its so ****in grimy

and then he flips to voting for me immediately after xiivi makes a post keeping me open as a play after claiming that he was only having me as unyeetable as a meme to contradict xiivi? opportunistic as ****,

"lol im not backpedaling, I was just pretending to care about claim order the whole time! I totally don't care at all!"

"but actually tho I care"

:thinkingemoji:

Pretty confident that Frozen and UP aren't both scum, though Frozen could potentially be scum with Xivii, with the weak push earlier being distancing but I'm not completely sure

I will agree that he's made some much stronger stances this game than last, even if I disagree with some of them. That's a point in his favor imo

I'm really not sure that Frozen is scum here, but ig I wasn't last game either lol

Should we get claims from the people we're considering yeeting before the end of tomorrow?

 

[Chaco]

He’s a lawyer at a larger firm iirc.

 

[Xivii]

But it wasn't that, it was "in favor" and "okay with it". Imagine a group of friends, where two people want Burger King, two people want KFC and the rest of them say "I'm okay with Burger King" or "either's fine". I think it's reasonable to let the opinionated folks battle it out if the rest of the group isn't committed to either choice. Particularly because some of the "rest" had some reservations about mass claiming.
On the other hand, I can see that we wouldn't do much if someone didn't take charge in such matters. I guess I was suspicious about you trying to force this because noone else piped up in favor of mass claim while this whole debate was going on. I guess a re-evaluation is pending, but it's 1 in the morning for me.

It's more like 2 people want Burger King (Zen, Frozen), 1 wants Burger King but wants everyone to order in the sequence the fourth guy lays out (Boom), 2 in favor of Burger King (Chaco, Darkpit), 1 Ambivalent (Somi), 2 in favor of KFC. Then the third guy (Boom) goes back and forth on which he prefers and the first guy (Zen) leaves, drives to the ocean, gets on a boat, and spends his life at sea.

 

[osieorb18]

Why not low content Somi? Possible slip up early in the game which we never got to check on, low interactions and safe stances mostly across the board. Generally easy to forget their slot rn. Lurkscum?

Somi felt purer to me the last time I read that slot.

 

[Chaco]

Somi felt purer to me the last time I read that slot.

In comparison to FF? Or like the last time you read their slot to rereading it now? Your wording lost me here.

 

[osieorb18]

In comparison to FF? Or like the last time you read their slot to rereading it now? Your wording lost me here.

In comparison to FF.

 

[Chaco]

In comparison to FF.

Alright so your mid day reads said you fully expect to find scum between Xivii, FF, and Somitomi. I looked back and read Somi again just now, it’s not a whole lot of content but more than I thought. Also, nothing inherently scummy. I think the only way we could’ve gotten anything there was with a full claim to see if the disconnect added up, but looking back now I think I accredited them to a slip they couldn’t acknowledge.

Alright so basic thoughts heretalked about Somi above first)

Osie’s content level and depth of push into Xivii seems to raw to be scummy. Might reread if all ends come up dead and Xivii becomes more apparently more townie than Osie. 496 by FF leaves the 3 distinct possibilities for Osie reaction to Xivii’s push.

Darkpit fundamentally felt different to me at the beginning of the game here you until recently and now is showing some depth I don’t remember out of him last game. Player growth or different alignment? Pros are named roles. Cons are different tells from usual. (DP had a very pure presence last game and an innocence that was tangible)

Mercuri has largely done nothing except scrape by activity protocols and essentially taunt so.

Xivii rapid pushes and typical Xivii fashion. Wagon accumulated way faster than I expected it to. Somi/DP would be suss votes here. Town credit for angles Xivii chose to pursue and heavily questioning my read on them is heavily townie.

Frozen is town. 496 illustrates it, and so does 435 where I got the bells that FF is obv town.

BoomFrog has been widely accepted as town, but less content than I remember. Overall nothing that has jumped out as scummy, but not sold for sure on townieness. Town cred for mediation though.

UP was a very strong early game presence, but as we have progressed has fallen back tremendously. I really don’t know what to make if their slot due to never having seen them play. Gung-ho to low content and activity is a weird adjustment to try and read as well, curious about some of their stances and attitudes towards things. Doesn’t feel inherently scummy, but could be “dressed up” play. Seems the type that could and would do so.

Tl;dr Pit stands out the most from tells alone and gives us literally the most to work with moving forward, sans Xivii and I think from a comparison standpoint that Xivii fits his town meta better than DP does.

##Unvote
##Vote: DarkPit

 

[Chaco]

Key differences here with DP I think are, he wants to usually have faith in putting a vote behind someone, but here it looks like he’s trying to offload his vote quickly and easier. Also a big thing that pinged me was saying he was more confused in this game and no posts translated that to me.

DP is the okay toDay.

 

[mərcurı]

This is the abyssal darkness of deep space calling the kettle black.

Do you think you've presented enough content to be readable?

Are you just like, skimming the thread?

youre doing it again

thanks for proving my point though

 

[Xivii]

somitomi - Paranoid about the first post here,

What were you paranoid about?

In this case, don't we know that they are both relatively new players? (DP for sure has a low single-digit number of games. I don't remember for certain on somi, but I vaguely recall them starting recently.) Why would we not Hanlon's Razor this behaviour in this context?

By both, are you referring to Mala? Mala was indeed scum and had the same tell.

osieorb18 what would the general layout of your reads if Darkpit flipped scum?

BoomFrog why did you ask Darkpit about if there's anything he checks for in his posts such as spelling errors?

BoomFrog would you say there are differences between your play this game and your last three games? If so, what are they? And are they intentional or unintentional?

 

[osieorb18]

What were you paranoid about?

It's a lot of tearing people down.

By both, are you referring to Mala? Mala was indeed scum and had the same tell.

I... don't think Mala was relevant. Mala had JUST started.

osieorb18 what would the general layout of your reads if Darkpit flipped scum?

Probably a full reevaluation, but I'd be looking particularly closely at interactions or lack thereof with Darkpit.

 

[osieorb18]

Darkpit fundamentally felt different to me at the beginning of the game here you until recently and now is showing some depth I don’t remember out of him last game. Player growth or different alignment? Pros are named roles. Cons are different tells from usual. (DP had a very pure presence last game and an innocence that was tangible)

I remember looking at Darkpit during VTR and thinking "Wow, this person is making some good points which will be entirely ignored because as a player, they don't conform to what people expect.

 

[BoomFrog]

Xivii The cognitive bias stuff was a response to you saying you felt like you had changed dimensions since everyone started saying "angley". Figures that your job is related to cognitive stuff.

BoomFrog why did you ask Darkpit about if there's anything he checks for in his posts such as spelling errors?

BoomFrog would you say there are differences between your play this game and your last three games? If so, what are they? And are they intentional or unintentional?

I have a theory that DP says "lol" more when nervous. But when I checked back to last game DP said lol more then I remember so I don't trust my perception there. I'd be curious to find a ratio of lol use and see if it went up but don't know a non tedious way of determining that.

I was just thinking about how my play has evolved. It's mostly not on purpose, but I think I'm playing more straightforward and "traditional townie". Back in the day I used to get a lot of value by intentionally nose diving and seeing who took the bait only to later argue my way back to safety and get the opportunist who was usually scum. However, Oasis and midnight have shown I don't have the capacity to wiggle out of yeets anymore. Partially a culture change but mostly I think because I don't have the time and energy to address people's individual concerns and carefully manipulate the mood of the thread.

But I think my play has been mostly similar to Midnight, minus the betrayed outbursts from when you went after me that game.

I was planning to push my little hammerer game to get something interesting going D1 since this is vanilla, but the delicious noise from the nonsense roles has given us plenty to talk about without needing extra shenanigans.

 

[BoomFrog]

youre doing it again

thanks for proving my point though

I'm throwing shade at your play style. I'm not saying you are scummy, I'm saying if everyone played the way you do then town would have much worse win percentages as the game would end up almost purely random.

 

[mərcurı]

I'm throwing shade at your play style. I'm not saying you are scummy, I'm saying if everyone played the way you do then town would have much worse win percentages as the game would end up almost purely random.

is there a purpose to it

 

[BoomFrog]

is there a purpose to it

I was hoping to engage you into actually participating. Also knowing if you are skimming vs fully reading at least let's my know your perspective to glean what I can from your meagre posts.

Tell me, how can I best encourage your participation and sharing your views?

 

[Chaco]

All I know is DP not feeling the same here goes beyond any other tell I’ve seen this game thus far, and if the yeet isn’t on DP it falls to Xivii, and I think that’s a terrible idea. Cause I have a creeping suspicion that if the DP route is wrong that it’s Osie due to PoE and town points to other slots

 

[Chaco]

At this point though I’m almost just cool with policy lynching mercuri, and I know we could get enough traction for that.

cause the taunting back at people is just pointless. It’s blatant refusal.

 

[BoomFrog]

osieorb18 - Came into the thread with a hard defense of DP. I don't think scum does that unless DP is their mate. There have been a few key interactions that make me think they aren't mates with DP, but if DP flips scum I will take a second look. If DP is town then this is a hard town read. Tone had been very townie so that's a plus as well.

Chaco - My theory of the game is that scum got actual ineffective versions of town vanilla roles, not safe claims. This means fake-miller is the one role they wouldn't get as that is too confusing for scum to receive as a role. But that is a lot of assumptions. Aside from that Chaco's time has been very easy going and raw. - Strong town lean.

Chaco If you role scum how to you try and mimic your "steam of conciseness" still posting?

Utopian Poyzin - I vibed hard with UP early game and I'm going to hold onto that good feeling. I agreed with almost every post and I could tell when he was being flippant vs serious. This feels similar to Oasis UP. A townie mindset with a dose of "lol-chaos" strategy. The only negative is that they overcompensated when toning it down. I'd expected UP to come back and participate more roughly yesterday. - Town lean

UtopianPoyzin Come back and play.

#HBC FrozeηFlame - Hasn't posted much, but they got "it" very early which I still think is a townie mindset. But I'll try not to give too much credit since FF is a savvy player. Still, their tone has been good and I've agreed with all their points. Their D1 pushes have been lazy LHF, but that is typical of FF D1 no matter alignment, if I recall. - Town lean

Xivii - Early posts all had bizarre logic, especially like giving Chaco town points for the replacement stuff which as UP said was the most inconsequential part of Chaco's play. Dropping the DP push only to reluctantly tag along with me is also very concerning. If DP is town I will be very suspicious of Xivii. That said, their tone has felt town, and I think the mass claim was probably town motivated. Their attitude about pushing me some but giving me space is what I expected from town Xivii after last game's fiasco. - Town lean

mərcurı - It's hard to say, but I assume Mercuri wouldn't be so passive as scum if their buddy was in any danger. I doubt mer is scum unless their partner is very confident. So dispite the player being infuriating, I think the slot is likely town for now. - Slight town lean

somitomi - I haven't gotten any strong pings either way here. But as a low hanging fruit player it's too easy to say they are scum. A somi-DP team would be quite a coincidence and more likely I'm wrong somewhere. If I wasn't confident about the DP yeet I'd reread here to see if I really want to yeet Somi or not.

DarkPit54 - The *******-logic thing really still sticks out strongly to me here. This is going to be the best yeet we have D1.

Darkpit54 sorry if you are town here. Can you try explaining again to me why you thought your role might be *******?

 

[Chaco]

Dude this game is becoming tough to siphon tells out of people.

BoomFrog its been so long since I’ve rolled scum that I don’t exactly know how I’d do it again. I’m much more gut based now than I was before. In all likelihood my first scum game will be botched from trying to emulate my town style. My best guess on how would prob be operate under the assumption that there’s two scum teams and I’m still scumhunting, and just don’t take any special allowances for my mates. Treating them different is what allows tells etc. I mean that from a meta standpoint and an in game standpoint, if I would push them as town, I’m gonna push them as scum. Of course I played scum, used to, and loved it, so idk gonna be interesting when I actually roll scum to see if I actually still like it and how I do with it. Used to be my favorite thing, lol, I had a very good scum w/l

 

[Chaco]

Like to the above I don’t just mean it’s been 6-7 years, cause I played a few games of mafia then; but I was always town in those, iirc. And it was offsite somewhere with Marshy, and J and a few others. Can’t remember what site though... it had a green background at the time. Hmm. Back to the main point, so it’s been like almost 10 years since I’ve played scum.

 

[Chaco]

And at the above regarding DPs role, from what he told me about his role when I promoted him on it, nothing does truthfully. But that could be lack of experience regarding B Modding.

Plus standardly in B games you can vote the mod, which I’ve seen no indication of here.

##Unvote
##Vote: #HBC Kary

 

[BoomFrog]

And at the above regarding DPs role, from what he told me about his role when I promoted him on it, nothing does truthfully. But that could be lack of experience regarding B Modding.

Could you restate this. I can't understand your point?

Also the point of a B game is nothing is standard. I don't know the culture here, but on XKCD B games had to say they were B games.