COMPLETELY VANILLA Mafia | Game Over

[UtopianPoyzin]

UtopianPoyzin , Xivii : Gun to head readlist with explanations in the next 5 minutes if possible, please?

Can’t do explanations right now, much less in 5 minutes. But here’s a lil something

Poyzin
Chaco
Osieorb
Darkpit54
Mercuri
BoomFrog
FrozenFlame
Somitomi
Xivii

That seems about right tbh

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Pick one and Ill explain it in 3-4 sentences

 

[osieorb18]

Pick one and Ill explain it in 3-4 sentences

Frozen, Darkpit, BoomFrog, Xivii, somitomi, in that exact order.

 

[Xivii]

Frozen: assertiveness, certainty in setup, push on UP (genuine belief in him being scum)

Somi: scum have safe claims so likely to grasp the nature of the setup quickly and partner didn't inform him of the nature of it despite it already being public in thread (I literally stated it on the first page). The fact that he wasn't aware indicates he's probably not scum. Additionally even after the pressure he received he did not flounder at all. Admitted his misunderstanding and moved on.

You: tone, going against the grain, real paranoia about my motives, quick entrance into the game without assessing the situation

Merc: identical not as me on UP early on. Tone. We played about 6 or so discord mafia games and he was scum in probably all but one of him and I read him correctly each time with about the same amount of content he's posted here.

Boom: Process of Elimination. Pit doesn't appear to be scum with Chaco or UP.

Chaco: Wishy-washy all game, seems to be playing multiple sides. Has throughout the game failed to commit to pit. His comments about how pit's statement regarding yeeting for information in this game feels different than in Midnight is especially sketchy to me. They are literally identical. The way he's treated that slot just feels like trying not to have blood on his hands for a town yeet. And how he keeps saying he's waiting for his read on me based on pit seems like he's setting me up as a future yeet. Seems to not have suspicion of UP when UP reeks of DoS. Associated with UP as UP randomly strong reads his partners and his eat a sock lock town nonsense on Chaco at the beginning of the phase was partner indicative.

UP: stated that pushing somi on not getting the roles was just a bluff, but had no suspicion of the fact that Chaco was genuinely pushing somi on that basis. Now seems to really think somi is scum despite it apparently being a bluff. hyperconfidence in reads, which doesn't seem genuine at all. bullying. soffed cop like page 2. insistence that there is a godfather or other junk.

Pit: discussed at length

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Frozen, Darkpit, BoomFrog, Xivii, somitomi, in that exact order.

One

Frozen: I was trying to get at FF’s goat by being stubborn (which I will continue to adamantly refuse to claim early) and they showed genuine frustration at it. The problem that I have with this slot is that they seen to be very opportunistic, which seems to be a recurring characteristic this game. I wouldn’t be surprised if they were scummates with Xivii, but at the same time they seem to be more rational so they fall into the bottom of null for now.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

stated that pushing somi on not getting the roles was just a bluff, but had no suspicion of the fact that Chaco was genuinely pushing somi on that basis. Now seems to really think somi is scum despite it apparently being a bluff.

Nopey-nope. I had genuine grievances with the slot the whole time and the only bluff I made was that they were the only one who didn’t get what I was talking about, which is frankly inconsequential but whatever floats your boat.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

insistence that there is a godfather or other junk.

Lmao I explicitly pointed out I didn’t believe that (I think?) If your going to campaign at least use evidence that exists m’kay?

 

[Xivii]

We’re probably dealing with a godfather and a rolecop maybe, problem is that godfathers aren’t typically normal and I’m doing that on the premise that Chaco is truly the miller so that would be antithesized by a godfather.

Of course I have more confidence in a rolecop due to the way this game is set up but the godfather is give or take, be cautious with cop results because I’m pretty sure that our cop is probably active, given it’s not me (or is it?)

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

hyperconfidence in reads

I can’t believe you’ve never heard of an exaggeration. Sorry for being pointed but this is kinda ridiculous. I do have confidence in my reads but a lot of the things you are saying is “hypoconfident” is probably clearly an exaggeration for a point or to push an idea maybe just maybe.

 

[Xivii]

Likely you're a role cop with the safe claim confused cop. Chaco is a goon with the safe claim self-doubting miller. And your early game was to play off his miller claim to give credence to your cop claim. Hence why you insisted that there was probably a godfather in the post above to further imply that you were a cop and Chaco was the town opposing role to the hypothetical scum godfather role.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

@568 Yupperdoodles, that was the original post that I made and cannot be called an “insistence” by any stretch of the imagination. I’m basically every game I’ve played you know that I just throw things out in the open to see what sticks, and the “godfather” suggestion I inexplicably said “I don’t think that anymore”, unless I’m just imagining it. I’m not even going to call this cutting hairs, because insistence clearly refers to asserting something more than once, not just throwing it out into the open. You calling that “scum-motivated” makes me gag

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Likely you're a role cop with the safe claim confused cop. Chaco is a goon with the safe claim self-doubting miller. And your early game was to play off his miller claim to give credence to your cop claim. Hence why you insisted that there was probably a godfather in the post above to further imply that you were a cop and Chaco was the town opposing role to the hypothetical scum godfather role.

So because of this post, do you think that there really is a rolecop in the game, being me?

 

[Xivii]

Doesn't matter what you actually are. You're either scum or wishful jester and need to be yeeted regardless.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Doesn't matter what you actually are. You're either scum or wishful jester and need to be yeeted regardless.

Answer the question, because it does matter.

 

[osieorb18]

Frozen: assertiveness, certainty in setup, push on UP (genuine belief in him being scum)

Somi: scum have safe claims so likely to grasp the nature of the setup quickly and partner didn't inform him of the nature of it despite it already being public in thread (I literally stated it on the first page). The fact that he wasn't aware indicates he's probably not scum. Additionally even after the pressure he received he did not flounder at all. Admitted his misunderstanding and moved on.

You: tone, going against the grain, real paranoia about my motives, quick entrance into the game without assessing the situation

Merc: identical not as me on UP early on. Tone. We played about 6 or so discord mafia games and he was scum in probably all but one of him and I read him correctly each time with about the same amount of content he's posted here.

Boom: Process of Elimination. Pit doesn't appear to be scum with Chaco or UP.

Chaco: Wishy-washy all game, seems to be playing multiple sides. Has throughout the game failed to commit to pit. His comments about how pit's statement regarding yeeting for information in this game feels different than in Midnight is especially sketchy to me. They are literally identical. The way he's treated that slot just feels like trying not to have blood on his hands for a town yeet. And how he keeps saying he's waiting for his read on me based on pit seems like he's setting me up as a future yeet. Seems to not have suspicion of UP when UP reeks of DoS. Associated with UP as UP randomly strong reads his partners and his eat a sock lock town nonsense on Chaco at the beginning of the phase was partner indicative.

UP: stated that pushing somi on not getting the roles was just a bluff, but had no suspicion of the fact that Chaco was genuinely pushing somi on that basis. Now seems to really think somi is scum despite it apparently being a bluff. hyperconfidence in reads, which doesn't seem genuine at all. bullying. soffed cop like page 2. insistence that there is a godfather or other junk.

Pit: discussed at length

Re: Frozen - Assertiveness or aggressiveness? And why do you like Frozen's certainty in the setup?

Re: Somi - How do you know for sure that scum have fake claims?

Re: Me - For having a townread on me, it feels like you haven't addressed much of the details of my scumread towards you. Why?

Re: Boom - Boom has posted quite a bit. You don't have more of a direct read on him? I admit to having a bit of a soft read on him myself, but it's more than just PoE.

Re: Chaco - I see some of what you're saying here. Does UP's random buddying usually happen right at the start of the game, though?

Re: UP - I don't see any of the "tired of rolling scum" attitude I'd sorta expect from UP this game. He seems relatively upbeat, like he rolled town after being annoyed for game after game about scum roles. That's kinda my biggest concern with the UP scumreads beyond any individual posts which town-pinged me.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

I don't see any of the "tired of rolling scum" attitude I'd sorta expect from UP this game

Tbh, if I would’ve rolled scum, that would’ve been the attitude that I wanted to avoid for this game in particular because I made a pre-game comment on it.

 

[osieorb18]

Tbh, if I would’ve rolled scum, that would’ve been the attitude that I wanted to avoid for this game in particular because I made a pre-game comment on it.

Yeah, but you felt naturally upbeat. It doesn't feel forced.

 

[osieorb18]

Xivii Let's say UP is town and Chaco is still mafia. Who is Chaco's partner and why?

 

[osieorb18]

(Not that I am in agreement that Chaco seems like mafia, but...)

 

[Xivii]

Re: Frozen - Assertiveness or aggressiveness? And why do you like Frozen's certainty in the setup?

Re: Somi - How do you know for sure that scum have fake claims?

Re: Me - For having a townread on me, it feels like you haven't addressed much of the details of my scumread towards you. Why?

Re: Boom - Boom has posted quite a bit. You don't have more of a direct read on him? I admit to having a bit of a soft read on him myself, but it's more than just PoE.

Re: Chaco - I see some of what you're saying here. Does UP's random buddying usually happen right at the start of the game, though?

Re: UP - I don't see any of the "tired of rolling scum" attitude I'd sorta expect from UP this game. He seems relatively upbeat, like he rolled town after being annoyed for game after game about scum roles. That's kinda my biggest concern with the UP scumreads beyond any individual posts which town-pinged me.

Frozen: Assertiveness. I like how he addressed UP's understanding of the setup here and the certainty he had:

I think anyone who hasn't figured this out by now is legitimately suss, like it wasn't immediately obvious when I only knew my role in a vaccuum but as soon as people started their roles were weird/contradictory/useless it clicked for me as I've made similar design decisions, especially hosting IRL games, when I want to give slots more "things to do" that actually don't really affect the balance of the game. im like 99% confident that this game is just full of red herring roles that do effectively nothing, like a patriot in a game with no recruiters or a firefighter in a game with no arsonist

like unless UP somehow the only legit PR in the game I cannot comprehend how you can miss the ball this hard

If we were dealing with scum!Frozen and town!UP, I think Frozen wouldn't be pushing this so hard because he would know that town!UP really did have a reason to believe what he did and he would be playing for long game of when that was revealed. Pushing it this hard just leaves him open to a potential blast radius of UP actually coming out as a real PR.

Somi: Because Kary wouldn't leave scum hanging and safe claims are the norm on this site. I linked the game Kary hosted before: link. Regardless, the other points I made are the meat of why somi is town. This is just the lettuce.

You: Your push on me hasn't been in a good faith / solving manner. You assumed I was scum and interpreted all of my actions in that light. When I made that post explaining how my discussion of mafia ethics was different than adherence to a mechanical strategy, you just reiterated your points instead of updating your perspective. This told me that attempting to come to a mutual understanding was a waste of resources and thread space. I want to keep the clutter down this game, and long drawn out TvT battles are just unnecessary when the flips will tell the story. This is the first time I feel like you're actually trying to read me.

Boom: I need to give him some more thought. You asked me for a flash list, I'm tired, and I haven't assimilated his recent content into my view yet.

Chaco: Yes, if you recall, in sorcerer's he went right at Raxxel and Z25 right out of the gate. Additionally, if their safe claims are miller and cop, it's likely they'd want to capitalize on that as early as possible, playing off the idea that if there is a miller there must be a cop and vice versa. UP locktowning Chaco for his claim is so fake, like he just wanted to give credence to his own claim.

UP: The last game he was scum in was sorcerers. He was town in the last few games. And that low-key ness wouldn't be a tell anyway as that's how he was in Oasis and was town.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Votecount 1-10

[3] UtopianPoyzin : #HBC FrozeηFlame, Dark Pit, Xivii
[2] Xivii : osieorb18, UtopianPoyzin
[1] Darkpit54: Boomfrog
[1] somitomi : Chaco

[2] Not Voting: mərcurı, somitomi

With 9 alive, it takes 5 votes to eliminate.

Day 1 Deadline is at 11 PM UTC on Saturday August 8th; less than 37 hours remain.

 

[Chaco]

Xivii you call me wish you washy but I’ve been on a standard all game. Sorry if you’re mad that I don’t cosign your play style, but you’re just flailing rn. I don’t think it’s scum flailing either. Like it’s time to sit back and stop being the center okay? I’ve adequately answered your questions and concerns to the point of bashing my head against a wall. So let me make it blatantly clear:

You are a self serving town player. You do as town what you think is best for town, in the name of town, when it helps you more than anyone else. Lynch all liars can’t apply to you because you lie every game.

The helping you read my slot post is bull**** and you wouldn’t be remotely scum reading me if I had taken your side vs Osie. Just face the facts of you have set your town slot up to be handled with a grain of salt 100% of the time. And that’s no ones fault except the way you choose to play as town. So when you say you aren’t, this game, no one believes you.

Can I emphasize this any further I eluded you the bluntness of this posts in earlier, but you’re beating a dead dog here.

 

[Chaco]

Also Xivii my explanations for not commuting to out aren’t valid to you? So basically you’re saying you’re trying to force a mislynch?

 

[Chaco]

Committing to Pit*

 

[Chaco]

Like literally your PoE changes every. single. day, and it’s so distracting. Mercuri hasn’t said **** all game. Somi came and went. Where tf is DP? When a third of the player base is MIA and we are over here stroking Xivii’s ego cause we don’t like the way he presents himself as town. Like get over it.

I wasted so much time yesterday trying to diffuse the two of y’all, for no damn reason. For Xivii to be claiming TvT now. Like gtfo.

 

[Chaco]

Like I have to come back and point this out: you did the exact same thing to me last game, I become scummy to you because of my general disdain of how you conduct yourself at times. Then you’ll come back to the realization of “oh **** Chaco is town and I’ve been dumb”. Like I’m not going to change, my thoughts on your play are the same consistently. I think you go over the top when you don’t have to and it serves as much more a distraction than benefit. Difference here? I gave you the benefit of the doubt. Osie is seeing it as me not just flat out Scumreading you. You’re seeing it as wish washy. Reality: I don’t care, it doesn’t help me game solve. Why do you think that Boom is the only one that gets it? Liked alllll my posts in regards to your play style?

I ignore a lot of what you say cause it’s fluff and irrelevant. Totally the only pure post youve put out in 24hours is after Osie cut you some slack, and you can see the tonal shift. I noticed the same thing in UPs game. You start to flail when you have no idea where to go, and then go pilfering through the game to find substance. So, go pilfer and don’t flail. It’s distracting. You’ve literally came against every person in this game almost so far, and at some point you will. If that’s how you read, cool. But leave the dramatics out of it. I was ignoring the **** for solely this point, cause I know if I get pestered with it I will say something cause it is blatantly unbeneficial, and clogging up the thread with ego soaking is anti town.

 

[Chaco]

Tonally***

 

[Darkpit54]

Sorry guys, I'm here. About to reread all of yesterday's stuff, then I'll respond and then hopefully I'll have time to reread Frozen and Boom

 

[somitomi]

What do you like of Chaco, Boom, and Frozen?

Mostly it's just a lack of any negative impressions really. Chaco's the only one, where I could vaguely point at the way they claimed super-early when they (presumably) had no idea what the game was about. As I said, it's a list based on gutfeels.

Do you think UP and I could be scummates?

Honestly, I have no idea, but then I don't look for connections on D1 as a policy. I don't think there's enough information to do that, so I'd rather try to evaluate people individually.

somitomi why are ignoring the fact that that is already settled.

Because Osie's request seemed reasonable and I didn't get the impression it was settled, there was still ongoing discussion. I think complying with that request was a reasonable compromise that actually addresses the concerns some people (myself included) had and allows the discussion to run its course. As far as I recall the "votes" weren't actually that black and white on the matter, but fell into four basic groups (at the time of my post):
- positively wants it: you and Frozen
- okay with it: mercuri, Chaco and yours truly
- indifferent: Boom and DarkPit (doesn't think it'll achieve much, but not against it)
- against it: Osie and UP
I'm actually genuinely concerned by your push for a mass claim. You presented it as the will of the majority for the second time even though most of us are not so strongly in favor of it.
##vote: Xivii

i do much better lategame dont worry about it

You could still make more of an effort. I dislike D1 as much as the next guy, but I still make an effort.

yes but can you say with a straight face that you're very confident that a pseudo claim like that, given his posturing re: the massclaim generally, isn't a gambit? anyone else see what I mean?

I sure as hell can't, but I can't tell if it's a town gambit or a scum gambit.

I mean, they've done very little. That's kinda the only reason they aren't in my >rand!town at the moment.

Which is exactly why yeeting mercuri wouldn't give us a lot to work with and I'd rather not do a second pseudo-D1.

 

[somitomi]

Because Osie's request seemed reasonable and I didn't get the impression it was settled, there was still ongoing discussion. I think complying with that request was a reasonable compromise that actually addresses the concerns some people (myself included) had and allows the discussion to run its course.

Although now that I think about it with my less tired brain, it actually doesn't solve the whole "outing actual PRs" problem, which makes me wonder:
osieorb18 What was the point of that suggestion exactly?

 

[Darkpit54]

I don’t see townPit saying I can’t convince you of my alignment either. But then again, advancement in style? Idk.

I can't convince you of my alignment by saying I'm town and explaining the intent of my actions. I'd rather actually scumhunt and hope that my alignment becomes clear in time, and if it doesn't hopefully my posts will help find scum after I flip. Osie's game I tried to convince everyone I was town and it did nothing, when I should've spent that time pushing the SK that I was 100% confident and correct on. I won't make that mistake this time. If anyone has a question about a post I've made or makes and argument that isn't correct, I'll respond obviously, but that's not where I'm going to spend most of my time this game, because that only benefits scum

Darkpit54 Do you have any habitual things that you routinely clean up in your posts but haven't been doing so this game? For example I have frequent spelling errors and always need to carefully double check my spelling of "definitely", I often autocorrect to "defiantly".

Not really any spelling errors, because I'm on mobile so autocorrect saves me lol. Mostly formatting and clarity of my thoughts, though my phone has a tendency to squish wordstogether like that so I'm sure there's some of that in this game, but I usually try to fix that as I go. Also typos at the last word of a paragraph or sentence, because those don't get autocorrected

Also, while I'm at it building a case on DP. The fact that DP is seriously considering Xivii as scum but still stated that their push on DP was solid is a super guilty attitude. Town DP would think Xivii's push was flawed or would think Xivii is town. But scum Xivii with a legit argument makes no sense.

Xivii's a very skilled player, I feel he's 100% capable of making good pushes as scum. Also, at the time I posted that, I was leaning towards town Xivii. After Osie's last posts I'm less sure, but that's irrelevant to this and I'll get into it later lol

Why are you considering meta on players for which you have very little but not considering much the more established meta of Xivii being one of the strongest and most outspoken scum players in the forum?

This made me realize that if Xivii is scum he's probably scarier than anyone else if we let him lead us

Xivii can you link a recent scum game for me to skim. Same question to UtopianPoyzin

Darkpit's assessment that I'm advanced+ is definitely wrong.

I don't know what this means, so I think you're thinking of someone else lmao

I hardclaim a protective role.

I'll full claim my role if people still want that massclaim

I meant to quote Osie's "congrats you've rolefished successfully" too but oops. Pretend like I did. At this point, I think we've lost everything we can lose from a massclaim while gaining absolutely nothing. I see no reason not to go all the way and hopefully get some information, scum already has a clear target for toNight and some clear options for the next. With a massclaim now we can get something, right? Scum already has what they need, so we have nothing to lose. This way we can get a target for Osie, or confirmation that it's all weak roles, or something of substance. I'll fully advocate for a massclaim now. Osie should claim last

WTF is Xivii talking about here? There can be 3 scum in a 9 person game.

Thank you for this lol, I thought I was stupid. I'd based it on 4 potential scum out of 13 last game, so 3 out of 9 this game would be the same ratio. But I assumed they knew better than I would lmao

yes but can you say with a straight face that you're very confident that a pseudo claim like that, given his posturing re: the massclaim generally, isn't a gambit? anyone else see what I mean?

It could very definitely be a gambit. If it is, I'm pretty confident it's a town gambit, so we should go with it. If Osie doesn't die tonight maybe I'll reconsider, but I don't think scum claims a visiting protective role, because when they don't get NKd no one will believe them lol. If it's a gambit, it can wine scum and maybe protect a stronger target for a night. I think we should accept it for now regardless, right? I don't see this coming from scum

it’s very hard for me to discern your intent a lot of the times

But, DP popped in and out with something that we could have had him expound on and dig further into why he thinks what he does when he’s your main suspect.

I don't have anything to add to this aside from it complimenting Osie's argument that Xivii is just pushing for a yeet really well

His comments about how pit's statement regarding yeeting for information in this game feels different than in Midnight is especially sketchy to me. They are literally identical. The way he's treated that slot just feels like trying not to have blood on his hands for a town yeet

I think this is the first time Xivii seems to be seriously considering me as town, but it doesn't affect his read of me at all, just Chaco. If you believe I'm a town yeet, why are you pushing me?

Doesn't matter what you actually are. You're either scum or wishful jester and need to be yeeted regardless.

Wait, how does it not matter? Yeeting a jester rn would be wayyy less helpful to us than yeeting scum. Can you explain this?

- I don't see any of the "tired of rolling scum" attitude I'd sorta expect from UP this game. He seems relatively upbeat, like he rolled town after being annoyed for game after game about scum roles. That's kinda my biggest concern with the UP scumreads beyond any individual posts which town-pinged me

Can you elaborate on this? I feel like I may be missing something on UP lol. Does he have a drastically different tone as scum?

Xivii Let's say UP is town and Chaco is still mafia. Who is Chaco's partner and why?

Xivii can you answer this lol? Also the same question but with Boom with me as town. It seems like you're only argument for them being scum is that I don't seem to fitwith anyone else?

Also Xivii my explanations for not committing to pit aren’t valid to you? So basically you’re saying you’re trying to force a mislynch?

Lol.

I trust Osie a lot more than I trust Xivii, and more than anyone in the game other than maybe Chaco. So I think I trust them a lot more on who to push

I still think UP is kind of sketchy, but Xivii is wayyy scarier and if he is scum that'll pretty much clear UP for me.

Hoping Osie can be our Fonti this game lol

##Unvote

##Vote: Xivii

Unrelated, but osieorb18 what are your pronouns?

 

[Darkpit54]

Crap I didn't respond to one of them. Basically I really relate to Chaco's intent point, as it's almost impossible to determine that with Xivii

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

UP locktowning Chaco for his claim is so fake

Yeah lol this is scum, I’ve moved on from the claim really early and they’re just a townie slot. I know you think I’m an easy yeet but sadly you don’t have any actual dirt on me. Oh wait, it’s actually impossible because I’m town.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Page 3:

For those curious, my progression on Chaco was “mechanically town probably, sort in endgame to see if miller claim still holds up”, to “yeah they just sound townie I would’ve townread them even if they weren’t miller”

Page 6:

Chaco is the towniest towner to everybody town the town, and he also had a realistically timed half-miller claim to boot. Don’t be skeptical, just trust the groove, man.

Xivii, I townread Chaco as well, but you grabbed the most NAI posts of all time to prove your point. That’s just asking for a replacement; he isn’t even pushing that hard for it, and I’d do the same as any alignment.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

The last game he was scum in was sorcerers

It does feel like a lot more than that. I know that I played since sorcerer’s and I was town in two and scum in two. So yeah, I’m still sick of being scum, but I suppose that’s not really evident. Tbh that probably isn’t obvious information so it’s understandable.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

(Btw I know that you’re technically right with Sorcerer’s being my last scum game here. It’s just that I’m having a “huh, really?” revelation because it genuinely feels like I’ve been scum basically every game. It was more of an out-of-game comment, you don’t need to respond to it.)

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Answer the question, because it does matter.

Still waiting on an answer Xivii , do you think that there’s a rolecop in the game that could or could not be me?

 

[Chaco]

I’m gonna catch up here in a bit.

giraffelasergun #HBC | Kary Can we get an updated VC? Thanks.

 

[giraffelasergun]

Votecount 1-11

[4] Xivii : osieorb18, UtopianPoyzin, somitomi, Darkpit
[2] UtopianPoyzin : #HBC FrozeηFlame, Xivii
[1] Darkpit54: Boomfrog
[1] somitomi : Chaco

[1] Not Voting: mərcurı

With 9 alive, it takes 5 votes to eliminate.

Day 1 Deadline is at 11 PM UTC on Saturday August 8th; approximately 31 hours remain.

 

[Chaco]

I thought that was L-1. Okay catching up.