C-Stick in SSE

[tral]

Is the C-Stick usable in SSE or does it follow the tradition of the previous two games? Smash+A just feels so unnatural to me.

 

[Kasek]

I don't know... but it's really that unnatural for you? I only use C-Stick for aerials. Then again, my sister AND my brother spam C-stick a lot... am I alone in using Smash Attacks with the SmashA option as opposed to using the C-Stick?

 

[Super_Nostalgic]

I think I heard somewhere that C-sticking is available in SSE, but I'm not completely sure.

 

[zeldamaster2006]

I don't use the C-stick for anything but yes I've heard it is available as well.

 

[Darkfur]

I've heard it's usable. Personally there is a time for c-stick and there is a time to charge smash. The c-stick can really help when you just want a quick smash after a combo that you wouldn't have the time to set up with a charged smash. I use both.

 

[SirAileron]

I make fun of C-stick users. It dampens the basic skill required to play Smash Bros.
It's one of the few things that I was surprised was not banned from tourney-styled play.

 

[Kit Cal-N]

I make fun of C-stick users. It dampens the basic skill required to play Smash Bros.
It's one of the few things that I was surprised was not banned from tourney-styled play.

Along with jumping with X and Y?

On topic, I would think C-stick is available in SSE, as it is in Training Mode now.

 

[Darkfur]

I make fun of C-stick users. It dampens the basic skill required to play Smash Bros.
It's one of the few things that I was surprised was not banned from tourney-styled play.

That is the most ignorant thing I've heard all day. It takes skill to know when and where to use the c-stick effectively. Just like it takes skill to know when it's better to use the Stick +A method effectively.

Obviously, if you thought it would have been banned from tourney style play, you are extremely misinformed. Perhaps you should actually learn these differences before stating that.

 

[SCOTU]

the c-stick gives a whole new level of aerial control in melee. Most competitive melee players do all their aerials with the c-stick so that they have more precise control of their motion, FFing, DIing. It still is probably better to use the c-stick for aerials in brawl (despite the damped momentum of aerials) because you can better time FFs, and spacing.
The fact that the c-stick was excluded from training mode in melee is just plain annoying.
I hope it is in training mode in brawl.

@SirAileron: It is actually one of the staple skills to play melee with any precise control. Most ppl on the tourney scene use the c-stick due to it's strictly better means of controls. (meaning, there is no detriment to using it, only benefit).

 

[SirAileron]

ooh, I kindled flames! Every "proud c-stick user" on the defensive!

Paper Sack, you raise an interesting point, though I find taking the "smash" out of "smash attack" much more amusing to discuss.

Scotu: I don't know about you, but I can retain my control over my momentum and whatnot perfectly fine without resorting to the C-stick.

 

[Darkfur]

ooh, I kindled flames! Every "proud c-stick user" on the defensive!

Paper Sack, you raise an interesting point, though I find taking the "smash" out of "smash attack" much more amusing to discuss.

I wouldn't exactly call myself a "proud c-stick" user, or say what I did was flaming.

I just don't like ignorance. =p

The more you know...

 

[Super_Nostalgic]

I make fun of C-stick users. It dampens the basic skill required to play Smash Bros.
It's one of the few things that I was surprised was not banned from tourney-styled play.

Man, C-sticking isn't lack of skill. It takes skill to know WHEN to use the C-Stick. It allows for aerials forward while DI'ing backwards, it allows for D-air's while not fast falling. It allows for quick smashes in crucial combos. It allows for many things. I'm not saying smash+A isn't important, but its only real use is charging your smashes. But that opens up for things like mind-games, edge-guards, and kill moves.

 

[SCOTU]

ooh, I kindled flames! Every "proud c-stick user" on the defensive!

Paper Sack, you raise an interesting point, though I find taking the "smash" out of "smash attack" much more amusing to discuss.

actually, the closest thing to flaming was your original post.

You know, you still "smash" the cstick. It also requires you to not have the control stick tilted in bralw (else you'll do a tilt). But it's not only for smashes, it's for aerials. The best use of the c-stick is for aerials.

 

[pirkid]

I make fun of C-stick users. It dampens the basic skill required to play Smash Bros.
It's one of the few things that I was surprised was not banned from tourney-styled play.

I sincerly do not understand where thr root of "C-Stick is nub" came from. I simply don't.

It's a faster Smash and a great aerial executer. What in the world is wrong with it?

 

[SCOTU]

The c-stick is no faster at smashing. but it is significantly easier to pivot smash/ dash cancel smash (in melee).

 

[SirAileron]

Oh, it's certainly true that the thing has its uses, but it does nothing that you can't do with the good ol' joystick.

Super Nostalgic: It's perfectly easy to do dairs without fast-falling, just as it's perfectly easy to do uairs without jumping. If you can't do so, it means you lack the control in your fingers for it, and as it seems, a lot of people don't have the manual dexterity to do so.

scotu: You can tilt the c-stick at your leisure. As soon as it gets to a certain point, it'll register to do a smash attack.

 

[Kruton]

c-sticking is available in every option of play in Brawl.

 

[Papapaint]

I don't know about you, but I can retain my control over my momentum and whatnot perfectly fine without resorting to the C-stick.

That's interesting. So you're able to do a fair while moving backwards without affecting your DI at all using only the control stick?

I need lessons from you. And by the sound of it, so does everyone else.

 

[SirAileron]

It's not that difficult. There's a certain point where you can hold forward without affecting momentum and still do attacks. Shield-grabbers are what forced me to learn not to tilt the stick too far in any particular direction if not necessary.

 

[Darkfur]

Using the c-stick alows you to jump forward and back air without losing any of your forward momentum.

 

[Papapaint]

It's not that difficult. There's a certain point where you can hold forward without affecting momentum and still do attacks. Shield-grabbers are what forced me to learn not to tilt the stick too far in any particular direction if not necessary.

Wrong. There is no point during an aerial attack that the control stick is not affecting your DI. Playing primarily as Luigi, with a secondary main of Falco, I have a pretty thorough understanding of aerial DI.

Not to mention that any reasonable Falco combo requires the use of the C-stick to work effectively, even down to shine JC-bair combos.

 

[SCOTU]

Actually, it's not possible to attain the level of control in the air that you can with the c-stick without it. Believe me. I've done many frame-by-frame analysises of melee. You get much more control with the c-stick. For peach, it's an absoulte must with her floats. Math can't get nearly the distance moving backward and still do a double fair without using the c-stick.
It's not that you can't tilt the c-stick, its that you smash it because you have to press it the frame you realize you need to.

 

[Mario77]

I make fun of C-stick users. It dampens the basic skill required to play Smash Bros.
It's one of the few things that I was surprised was not banned from tourney-styled play.

You fail... the C-stick is nessary to pull off certain moves without changing the direction your chacacter is traveling.... it's not noob to use it... its noob to NOT use it lol.

 

[mattc1231]

It's not that difficult. There's a certain point where you can hold forward without affecting momentum and still do attacks. Shield-grabbers are what forced me to learn not to tilt the stick too far in any particular direction if not necessary.

why even try if you have a c-stick? they implemented it for a reason, its just easier to get the hang of faster. theirs no point in trying a more difficult way, unless you think that way was easier to start with i guess.

 

[Senshuu]

I seriously did not know the C-stick did anything until last week. (I also found it weird that it doesn't do anything but zoom in training.)

Personally I like using the control stick + A, and I'll probably still use that with Brawl!

 

[pirkid]

Using the c-stick alows you to jump forward and back air without losing any of your forward momentum.

I believe we established that 4 years ago.

 

[SirAileron]

I like how people ignored the fact that I'm able to do whatever aerial I please without losing momentum.

 

[Darkfur]

I believe we established that 4 years ago.

Thank you. Now maybe you can tell that to the person who makes fun of those who use the c-stick instead of trying to make a smart-*** comment to me. ~_^.

I like how people ignored the fact that I'm able to do whatever aerial I please without losing momentum.

It's because we know you're lying. =p

EDIT: Fixed first part to be more appropriate to what I meant.

 

[SirAileron]

I never said there wasn't a good use for it. I merely stated that it required less skill to use.

 

[SirAileron]

It's because we know you're lying. =p

Merely because you're unable to recreate what I claim to be doing doesn't mean it's impossible. If you can do a dair using the control stick without fast falling, you can likely perform backward aerials without losing forward momentum, as the principles behind it are hardly any different.

Edit: Seems like I accidentally double-posted.

 

[Yeroc]

Don't bother, everyone will always take that as an insult as opposed to stating a fact about the level of manual dexterity required.

And he's not lying. With enough ability in your left thumb, you can certainly attain a similar level of control without the Cstick as with. Scotu, you might be right that at a frame level, it's not the same, but I can also attest that it's close enough to be inconsequential. I've done reverse double fairs and come within inches (in game of course - to the point that I couldn't see the difference) of doing them with the Cstick.

 

[Darkfur]

Merely because you're unable to recreate what I claim to be doing doesn't mean it's impossible. If you can do a dair using the control stick without fast falling, you can likely perform backward aerials without losing forward momentum, as the principles behind it are hardly any different.

You don't even realize that you are telling someone who has done frame by frame analysis that you can do something that you can not do.(Scotu) You are lying to try and prove your point, and it makes you look incredibly foolish to people who actually KNOW what they are talkinga bout.

I like how you ignore an extremely technical person like that because he completely discredits you.

 

[Sol]

i actualy used to use the cstick alot more back when i first started playing compettively but now i only use it for smashes and ledge hoped arials and down airs, i find it easyer to aim fox's uair with up and a then with the c stick

 

[SirAileron]

My question for scotu is how far he actually tilted the control stick during the frame-by-frame analysis.

 

[Arteen]

I merely stated that it required less skill to use.

How so? Knowing where and when to use the C-stick takes as much skill as knowing when and where to use A-button smashes.

 

[Somasu]

I never said there wasn't a good use for it. I merely stated that it required less skill to use.

Making something more difficult to do =/= more skill

No matter how many times you can pull off an aerial with the control stick without any loss of control (note that I didn't say momentum), someone can do the same thing as you with the C-stick. In fact, they can probably do it slightly better than you as they have more control over their aerial momentum than if you were to use the control stick.

It's the same thing for Smash attacks. You can pull off a Smash attack with the control stick and the C-stick in the exact same ways at the exact same speeds (minus the ability to charge), but in a good amount of situations, the C-stick can be a much quicker reaction and more useful than the control stick, an example being Crouch Cancel DSmashing.


Your points are faulty, Sir. Please attain new ones.

 

[BokutoGuy]

My question for scotu is how far he actually tilted the control stick during the frame-by-frame analysis.

Your logic fails. How could you possibly DI backwards while doing a fair at the exact same time.... unless you have another hand. I would believe you if I saw a video of you doing it but then I wouldn't be able to see your hands so no...

 

[SirAileron]

How so? Knowing where and when to use the C-stick takes as much skill as knowing when and where to use A-button smashes.

That argument becomes moot when you're able to perform A-button smashes just as fast as the C-stick, as it doesn't become an argument of judgment as much as it becomes an argument of comfort.

Edit:

Your logic fails. How could you possibly DI backwards while doing a fair at the exact same time.... unless you have another hand. I would believe you if I saw a video of you doing it but then I wouldn't be able to see your hands so no...

It's called not tilting the stick all the way. Aerials are by no means smash attacks. ._.

 

[Arteen]

That argument becomes moot when you're able to perform A-button smashes just as fast as the C-stick, as it doesn't become an argument of judgment as much as it becomes an argument of comfort.

So basically there is no difference in skill between them, even though you earlier said there was a difference in skill between them? More/less comfortable and efficient != more/less skill.

 

[BokutoGuy]

That argument becomes moot when you're able to perform A-button smashes just as fast as the C-stick, as it doesn't become an argument of judgment as much as it becomes an argument of comfort.

Edit:



It's called not tilting the stick all the way. Aerials are by no means smash attacks. ._.

I still see no video, plus that would still cause backwards DI however slight.