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Bringing Ganondorf up to A tier

MerzA

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 20, 2014
Messages
54
Location
Chicago, IL
I just posted this over on r/SSBPM but I figured I'd post it here as well to hear your thoughts.

It's generally agreed that Ganon needs some more help in PM to put him on an even playing field with the rest of the cast when it comes to tournament viability.

In my opinion, Ganon is being held down in the tier lists due to his inability to deal with projectiles, and his ridiculous combo-ability.

Which leads us to my suggestions for a fix.

1) Replace Warlock Punch with a projectile reflecting back-handed slap that can be 'charged' (circa OOT). By tapping neutral B (like short hopping) the slap would come out quite quickly (around the same speed as his jab) but without the jab's knockback. This gives Ganon a true jab that can be used for jab-resetting, and also gives Ganon a projectile reflector similar to Mario's cape (reflects the projectile at the same speed, increases damage a bit). By pressing and holding neutral B, Ganondorf would charge up the back hand for as long as Warlock Punch can last (max charge) but can also be released at any time, resulting in a stronger backhand that knocks enemies further back, and also hits projectiles back at a faster speed/knockback. The fully charged neutral B would essentially be Ganon's current Warlock Punch with projectile reflecting capabilities.

2) New Nair. Ganon's nair is by far the worst of his aerials, and while it has its uses (and nice auto cancel from short hop) it just isn't as useful as it could be. My suggestion: give Ganon a new nair that comes out fast (nice priority pls) which actually gives Ganon the ability to escape deadly combo strings in the event that he loses his jump.

In my opinion, both of these changes keep Ganondorf true to his melee playstyle, while also de-cloning Ganondorf a little bit more from Captain Falcon to play a bit more similar as how he did in OOT. Thoughts?
 

foxygrandpa

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 30, 2013
Messages
414
Location
Long Island
I respect that you're thinking critically, but none of these address ganon's main weakness-his mobility. He needs something to either help him move faster or hinder the opponents movement, like a projectile.
 

MerzA

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 20, 2014
Messages
54
Location
Chicago, IL
Honestly after learning to Waveland I don't think Ganon's mobility is that bad. Sure it could be better but I dont think that its mobility alone that's holding him back
 

foxygrandpa

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 30, 2013
Messages
414
Location
Long Island
Honestly after learning to Waveland I don't think Ganon's mobility is that bad. Sure it could be better but I dont think that its mobility alone that's holding him back
wavelanding is only effective on platform courses like battlefield. Even so, he is still out-mobilized. Out of both of your ideas, the second is the most potent.
 

Hungry Headcrab

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 6, 2013
Messages
541
Location
Washington
Nair is fantastic as-is.

The only change that Ganondorf NEEDS is a new neutral-B. I don't even care what it is anymore, I just don't want Warlock Punch.
 

teluoborg

Smash Otter
Premium
Joined
Mar 12, 2008
Messages
4,060
Location
Paris, France
NNID
teloutre
Why hello there, maybe you'd want to look around before creating a new thread.

Seriously everything said in this thread has already been said 10 times in 10 other threads, it's getting old and you people should seriously consider learning to read the thread index before expressing your thoughts.

And since I should practice what I preach I'm gonna use that thread I linked to talk about Ganon.

Peace.
 

BladeOFLucas

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 24, 2013
Messages
249
I just posted this over on r/SSBPM but I figured I'd post it here as well to hear your thoughts.

It's generally agreed that Ganon needs some more help in PM to put him on an even playing field with the rest of the cast when it comes to tournament viability.

In my opinion, Ganon is being held down in the tier lists due to his inability to deal with projectiles, and his ridiculous combo-ability.

Which leads us to my suggestions for a fix.

1) Replace Warlock Punch with a projectile reflecting back-handed slap that can be 'charged' (circa OOT). By tapping neutral B (like short hopping) the slap would come out quite quickly (around the same speed as his jab) but without the jab's knockback. This gives Ganon a true jab that can be used for jab-resetting, and also gives Ganon a projectile reflector similar to Mario's cape (reflects the projectile at the same speed, increases damage a bit). By pressing and holding neutral B, Ganondorf would charge up the back hand for as long as Warlock Punch can last (max charge) but can also be released at any time, resulting in a stronger backhand that knocks enemies further back, and also hits projectiles back at a faster speed/knockback. The fully charged neutral B would essentially be Ganon's current Warlock Punch with projectile reflecting capabilities.

2) New Nair. Ganon's nair is by far the worst of his aerials, and while it has its uses (and nice auto cancel from short hop) it just isn't as useful as it could be. My suggestion: give Ganon a new nair that comes out fast (nice priority pls) which actually gives Ganon the ability to escape deadly combo strings in the event that he loses his jump.

In my opinion, both of these changes keep Ganondorf true to his melee playstyle, while also de-cloning Ganondorf a little bit more from Captain Falcon to play a bit more similar as how he did in OOT. Thoughts?
Your first idea is fantastic, I heartily agree. Would your reflector actually do damage in close quarters. But your nair idea I'll have to think about. With the nair as it is, it is very conducive to combos, and it assists in the Zelda MU with the Arty Vortex used to get rid of Din's fire
 
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