Breaking the Ice - Ice Climbers DLC Discussion Thread - Under New Ownership!

[Deleted member]

I NEED these two back in the game. I feel empty without them. Is anyone else hoping that instead of wolf like everyone thought that instead of wolf, we get ice climbers as a returning vet(it is sakurai)

 

[GhettoNinja]

I NEED these two back in the game. I feel empty without them. Is anyone else hoping that instead of wolf like everyone thought that instead of wolf, we get ice climbers as a returning vet(it is sakurai)

Well that's what I want, it just doenst make sense(assuming he doesn't win the poll) because horizon pretty much guarantees Wolfs return with a possible new comer. Personally I'd rather have Roy or Ice Climbers come back over Wolf but I'm also trying to be realisitc.

 

[MagnesD3]

I NEED these two back in the game. I feel empty without them. Is anyone else hoping that instead of wolf like everyone thought that instead of wolf, we get ice climbers as a returning vet(it is sakurai)

no, how about both.

 

[Marigi174]

How about the wolf and IC communities support one another, because the two are on good terms - better than any other duo of veteran support communities. It would be a great way for us to increase support for the two characters to maximise the chances that they both return. It is something that I have was thinking about last night. Thoughts?

 

[FalKoopa]

Similarly, what is the general opinion on them being both being back, but not as individuals and instead are just one character that look like two?

Works for me. Would eliminate the desynching and grab shenanigans, for better or worse.

 

[ROBnWatch]

How about the wolf and IC communities support one another, because the two are on good terms - better than any other duo of veteran support communities. It would be a great way for us to increase support for the two characters to maximise the chances that they both return. It is something that I have was thinking about last night. Thoughts?

If they would help us out, ya, I'd be glad to help them get Wolf back in.

 

[Nauzgo]

Could you please add me to the supporters list? Ice Climbers were my secondaries in Brawl and it was even harder to see them cut due to time constraints than my main Lucas without any good reason (luckily at least he's back). Ice Climbers are missed everywhere from many people, but it's very sad to see that many have given up right after Sakurai stated why they weren't in the game. This fanbase needs to be stronger. Look at the Ridlye's. They're still fighting tho he's a boss. Like I said, many people in my german forum who didn't really played ICies, were also sad. They said, they belong to Smash now. And thats exactly what I think. You can't exclude a character which was in two entries of the series. Thats not fair!

 

[ROBnWatch]

Could you please add me to the supporters list? Ice Climbers were my secondaries in Brawl and it was even harder to see them cut due to time constraints than my main Lucas without any good reason (luckily at least he's back). Ice Climbers are missed everywhere from many people, but it's very sad to see that many have given up right after Sakurai stated why they weren't in the game. This fanbase needs to be stronger. Look at the Ridlye's. They're still fighting tho he's a boss. Like I said, many people in my german forum who didn't really played ICies, were also sad. They said, they belong to Smash now. And thats exactly what I think. You can't exclude a character which was in two entries of the series. Thats not fair!

Well said. Thanks for sticking with us. We'll be continuing to support these guys, and hopefully they're announced as DLC during E3. In the meantime, if you haven't already, you should go and vote for them in the Fighter Ballot. They'll need as much help as they can get if we're gonna get them back in!

 

[MagnesD3]

How about the wolf and IC communities support one another, because the two are on good terms - better than any other duo of veteran support communities. It would be a great way for us to increase support for the two characters to maximise the chances that they both return. It is something that I have was thinking about last night. Thoughts?

Well I already voted for you guys a while back because cutting a two time vet is stupid.

 

[Nauzgo]

Well said. Thanks for sticking with us. We'll be continuing to support these guys, and hopefully they're announced as DLC during E3. In the meantime, if you haven't already, you should go and vote for them in the Fighter Ballot. They'll need as much help as they can get if we're gonna get them back in!

No problem! Doing what I can to promote these guys in some german forums. Yeah, let's hope so, that would be even better than Wolf's announcement. I've already voted for them once, but I'll continue to vote more often if I feel like to. It's kinda sad that so many were sad that ICies aren't in the start roster, but lots of them didn't support them anymore after Sakurais statement. If they'd do so, we could easily beat everyone but Wolf and K.Rool maybe. But that's just what I noticed.

 

[Ember Reaper]

I actually voted for Popo alone. He alone has an interesting moveset. Just take Nana's meteor smash, and make Nana appear during special attack and disappear (that animation has already been around for year amiright). So she's only there for a little bit, much like Chrom for Robin, or ATs, Duck Hunt's Gunman, etc. And hey for alternate costumes? NANA. Win win to me

 

[Marigi174]

I actually voted for Popo alone. He alone has an interesting moveset. Just take Nana's meteor smash, and make Nana appear during special attack and disappear (that animation has already been around for year amiright). So she's only there for a little bit, much like Chrom for Robin, or ATs, Duck Hunt's Gunman, etc. And hey for alternate costumes? NANA. Win win to me

But that takes away the thing that makes Ice Climbers a unique character. Their two full character mechanic made both playing and defeating them a unique task, and having SoPo takes that away.

 

[Nauzgo]

But that takes away the thing that makes Ice Climbers a unique character. Their two full character mechanic made both playing and defeating them a unique task, and having SoPo takes that away.

Right, that's it. It'd be pretty weird if they'd be the Ice Climbers again in Sma5h, while in Sm4sh only Popo appeared. That'd be the wrong way. I bet the Ice Climbers could work on the normal 3DS if they put a bit more work on them than in the main development process. I can understand that if something is difficult and time consuming and not really necessary for the game, that it'll be cut. I think that was the case with the Ice Climbers and that's why I hope that they will take their time now and solve this problem.

PS: getting them for free would be kind cuz like Sakurai said they were intended to be in the vanilla game so that's content we actually didn't have to pay for extra. Would only be fair.

 

[Marigi174]

Right, that's it. It'd be pretty weird if they'd be the Ice Climbers again in Sma5h, while in Sm4sh only Popo appeared. That'd be the wrong way. I bet the Ice Climbers could work on the normal 3DS if they put a bit more work on them than in the main development process. I can understand that if something is difficult and time consuming and not really necessary for the game, that it'll be cut. I think that was the case with the Ice Climbers and that's why I hope that they will took their time and solve this problem.

PS: getting them for free would be kind cuz like Sakurai said they were intended to be in the vanilla game so that's content we actually didn't have to pay for extra. Would only be fair.

Yeah. You're right. They never said that they were impossible. They only said that the limitations meant that the time constraints were severe and IC were low priority 'cause they have no forseeable reboot (although I do want to see this - just more accessible than the original XD). We all have our fingers crossed!

 

[lightdasher]

I've wanted an Ice Climber sequel/reboot since Kid Icarus got a GBC game.

 

[Nauzgo]

I would love a sequel! But first they have to come back to Smash, otherwise they won't getting a new entry. I'd enjoy that, Nintendo doesn't have that much cool IPs to revive, but I think the most important are in Smash and they should get a new game. Good, R.O.B. isn't possible, Game & Watch is over, and Punch Out like Kid Icarus got a revival. That should happen with Duck Hunt and Ice Climber too!

Man, I'm so excited whether our ICies coming back or not. It'd be soooo awesome...

 

[Marigi174]

I would love a sequel! But first they have to come back to Smash, otherwise they won't getting a new entry. I'd enjoy that, Nintendo doesn't have that much cool IPs to revive, but I think the most important are in Smash and they should get a new game. Good, R.O.B. isn't possible, Game & Watch is over, and Punch Out like Kid Icarus got a revival. That should happen with Duck Hunt and Ice Climber too!

Man, I'm so excited whether our ICies coming back or not. It'd be soooo awesome...

Duck Hunt probably missed its chance with the death of the wii (cause a wii u game without gamepad functionality would be dumb), but IC are DEFINITELY capable of getting a reboot. PLEASE DO THIS NINTENDO!!!

I actually voted for Popo alone. He alone has an interesting moveset. Just take Nana's meteor smash, and make Nana appear during special attack and disappear (that animation has already been around for year amiright). So she's only there for a little bit, much like Chrom for Robin, or ATs, Duck Hunt's Gunman, etc. And hey for alternate costumes? NANA. Win win to me

Maybe for you, but not for the majority of us.

I would love a sequel! But first they have to come back to Smash, otherwise they won't getting a new entry. I'd enjoy that, Nintendo doesn't have that much cool IPs to revive, but I think the most important are in Smash and they should get a new game. Good, R.O.B. isn't possible, Game & Watch is over, and Punch Out like Kid Icarus got a revival. That should happen with Duck Hunt and Ice Climber too!

Man, I'm so excited whether our ICies coming back or not. It'd be soooo awesome...

Honestly I'd be fine with just getting a R.O.B. without a game...

 

[Nauzgo]

Honestly I'd be fine with just getting a R.O.B. without a game...

A real R.O.B. or his amiibo? :D

 

[BridgesWithTurtles]

I actually voted for Popo alone. He alone has an interesting moveset. Just take Nana's meteor smash, and make Nana appear during special attack and disappear (that animation has already been around for year amiright). So she's only there for a little bit, much like Chrom for Robin, or ATs, Duck Hunt's Gunman, etc. And hey for alternate costumes? NANA. Win win to me

I'd be completely fine with this. Yeah, it'd be a bummer losing the unique partner gimmick, but a solo Climber would still have a unique moveset not cloned from or similar to anyone else on the roster. It'd be my last resort option, but not one I'd be sad for them to take. Ice Climbers returning as fighters in practically any form would make me happy.

 

[Ember Reaper]

But that takes away the thing that makes Ice Climbers a unique character. Their two full character mechanic made both playing and defeating them a unique task, and having SoPo takes that away.

You could very well say that about Zelda/Sheik and PT. Now they are working alone. Yes we lose the duo mechanic, but we keep the characters we know and love and retain said series. Then it would confirm they will return in later games, it's keeping the veterans there and adjusting it to still be playable. Popo alone is still unique, not everyone even has some interesting mechanic, it just matches what the character does.
There's likely going to be give and take in a scenario like this, and from what I've seen that keeps all the necessary things, it cuts back a bit, but will likely work in game with little issue.

EDIT: What BridgesWithTurtles said.
It's not that I prefer this, it's that I think this idea works and would be the next best option.
I'd love to have the wobblers back in all their glory.

 

[RawstyleEevee]

@ ROBnWatch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ookR3kIqzg SoPo can kick plenty of ass though.

Although I do agree getting Ice Climbers original gimmick back should be Sakurai's top priority, but if SoPo(Nana as alternate costume) is the only option to make this Smash icon return, I gladly take it.

 

[Marigi174]

You could very well say that about Zelda/Sheik and PT. Now they are working alone. Yes we lose the duo mechanic, but we keep the characters we know and love and retain said series. Then it would confirm they will return in later games, it's keeping the veterans there and adjusting it to still be playable. Popo alone is still unique, not everyone even has some interesting mechanic, it just matches what the character does.
There's likely going to be give and take in a scenario like this, and from what I've seen that keeps all the necessary things, it cuts back a bit, but will likely work in game with little issue.

Commenting on the bolded part: Sakurai never said that it was impossible for IC to work. All he said was that the team was having difficulty due to the hardware and they were low priority, and that was the reason they got cut. Having one climber for the sake of making them "still playable" when the hardware is capable of handling it (the 3DS is more powerful than the gamecube and is about on-par with the wii) is not a valid reason to do so, and quite frankly it would be copping out to do so. Just thought I'd put that out there.

 

[Ember Reaper]

Commenting on the bolded part: Sakurai never said that it was impossible for IC to work. All he said was that the team was having difficulty due to the hardware and they were low priority, and that was the reason they got cut. Having one climber for the sake of making them "still playable" when the hardware is capable of handling it (the 3DS is more powerful than the gamecube and is about on-par with the wii) is not a valid reason to do so, and quite frankly it would be copping out to do so. Just thought I'd put that out there.

Reference?
and in terms of power i'm pretty sure it;s not cause ONE 3ds couldn't handle it, it's that when connectivity between 3DSs was implemented, it couldn't handle 8 people on screen. It's the wifi between up to 4 3DSs. They made an executive decision to cut them. The fact that they were fully implemented on Wii U means they worked hard, I'm talking aching backs and canker sores hard, to get them in game. If they were such low priority, they would not have made it to full implementation on the Wii U.

 

[ROBnWatch]

A real R.O.B. or his amiibo? :D

Both.

@ ROBnWatch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ookR3kIqzg SoPo can kick plenty of *** though.

Although I do agree getting Ice Climbers original gimmick back should be Sakurai's top priority, but if SoPo(Nana as alternate costume) is the only option to make this Smash icon return, I gladly take it.

I never said SoPo was unreliable (actually I did, back when SSB4 was still in speculation and we were talking about improvements we wanted to see with ICies), but I'd still prefer both Climbers as opposed to SoPo. I don't think Sakurai and the team want to go that route anyways, as I would expect they would have made this happen if they ever had the intention to. Like most other people have been saying, it would take away what made them some unique. Could SoPo still have a unique moveset? Yes, but without the dual character, they're (he is?) just another singular fighter. Currently, we have 3 characters in Smash 4 that can be considered a duo, RosaLuma, Olimar and co., and Duck Hunt. A dual character makes them unique from the rest of the cast, and you get a sense that whichever duo character you are playing as should be played more strategically (except in the case of Duck Hunt, where you will never lose the partner). It would just feel awkward and a bit less enjoyable if they didn't make their return in the same way they have in the past.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

I actually voted three times; once each for Takamaru, Rayman, and solo Popo (with Nana as an alt listed) - I'm fine with just one Climber, considering what happened to Sheik and ZS.

 

[GhettoNinja]

I actually voted three times; once each for Takamaru, Rayman, and solo Popo (with Nana as an alt listed) - I'm fine with just one Climber, considering what happened to Sheik and ZS.

I don't mean to sound rude, but what?!?! What does Shiek and ZSS have to do with Ice climbers? Both those characters could switch between two movesets. Splitting them up doesn't affect the characters themselfs much. Splitting the Ice Climbers would completely kill a orignal character and kill a veteran. Now a personal reason I want them back is because my friend thinks it takes so much skill to use Rosalina and Luma and I'd like to show her a actually tag team.

 

[ROBnWatch]

I don't mean to sound rude, but what?!?! What does Shiek and ZSS have to do with Ice climbers? Both those characters could switch between two movesets. Splitting them up doesn't affect the characters themselfs much. Splitting the Ice Climbers would completely kill a orignal character and kill a veteran. Now a personal reason I want them back is because my friend thinks it takes so much skill to use Rosalina and Luma and I'd like to show her a actually tag team.

RosaLuma= Puppet Master + Puppet team.

 

[Freduardo]

I voted for these guys two days ago. Mostly so one of the guys I generally plays with gets his main back.

 

[ROBnWatch]

I voted for these guys two days ago. Mostly so one of the guys I generally plays with gets his main back.

Thanks for the support!

 

[Deleted member]

Since its national siblings day, I think we should put a little more effort today to spread our champaign for these two. Maybe even have peoplepeople around the board vote on them today.
We could have some art of the two today.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

I don't mean to sound rude, but what?!?! What does Shiek and ZSS have to do with Ice climbers? Both those characters could switch between two movesets. Splitting them up doesn't affect the characters themselfs much. Splitting the Ice Climbers would completely kill a orignal character and kill a veteran. Now a personal reason I want them back is because my friend thinks it takes so much skill to use Rosalina and Luma and I'd like to show her a actually tag team.

They had their own gimmick that got cut. Nothing says that can't happen to IC.

 

[ROBnWatch]

Since its national siblings day, I think we should put a little more effort today to spread our champaign for these two. Maybe even have peoplepeople around the board vote on them today.
We could have some art of the two today.

SHOOT!!! IT IS SIBLINGS DAY!!!

I wanted to make some art for them but I've got a family thing to attend today. Sorry.

I'll be sure to vote for them today though, and get others to vote for them too if possible.

 

[SmashChu]

Just thinking about something.

For whatever reason, Rosalina and Luma work fine in the game, despite having their own moveset (sans final smash and specials). But for what ever reason, IC don't. I wonder if they can resolve the issue by programming Nana more like Luma. For instance, make Nana, when she's separated, only rush back to Popo. She won't attack and will only jump. To compensate, Nana could move much faster when alone, and their Up B can pull in Nana when she's away, even when she's off stage (within a certain range of course). They will lose the ability to control them when they are away, but Rosalina and Luma cover this already. It will be a focus on controlling two characters and sticking together. I'l like to here from someone with more technical skill the reasons Luma can work but not Nana.

 

[Nauzgo]

Just thinking about something.

For whatever reason, Rosalina and Luma work fine in the game, despite having their own moveset (sans final smash and specials). But for what ever reason, IC don't. I wonder if they can resolve the issue by programming Nana more like Luma. For instance, make Nana, when she's separated, only rush back to Popo. She won't attack and will only jump. To compensate, Nana could move much faster when alone, and their Up B can pull in Nana when she's away, even when she's off stage (within a certain range of course). They will lose the ability to control them when they are away, but Rosalina and Luma cover this already. It will be a focus on controlling two characters and sticking together. I'l like to here from someone with more technical skill the reasons Luma can work but not Nana.

Hey, I read that once again and still like this idea! But if Sakurai do so, the second, non playable climber, has to make damage too. He has to work exactly like Luma. Less frames, less damage, computer controlled. Then I think they'd be handable.

 

[Frostwraith]

Just thinking about something.

For whatever reason, Rosalina and Luma work fine in the game, despite having their own moveset (sans final smash and specials). But for what ever reason, IC don't. I wonder if they can resolve the issue by programming Nana more like Luma. For instance, make Nana, when she's separated, only rush back to Popo. She won't attack and will only jump. To compensate, Nana could move much faster when alone, and their Up B can pull in Nana when she's away, even when she's off stage (within a certain range of course). They will lose the ability to control them when they are away, but Rosalina and Luma cover this already. It will be a focus on controlling two characters and sticking together. I'l like to here from someone with more technical skill the reasons Luma can work but not Nana.

Luma is controlled directly by player inputs and has a simplistic AI for when returning to Rosalina. It's a simple object tied to Rosalina (not unlike a projectile or such).

Nana, on the other hand, is a full-fledged character with a special AI program running constantly (Nana's movements are synchronized to the player, but they still have a slight delay as she doesn't respond directly to the player's input). Technically speaking, Ice Climbers are effectively two player characters running at once, putting a bigger strain on the CPU.

The 3DS version seems to only be able to handle 5 players at once, as Multi-Man mode has 4 opponents at once as opposed to 5 and that number is cut down to 3 when playing co-op. It could handle more players, but it's likely prone to frame rate drops and similar issues.

The Wii U version can handle more players at once, but even so 8-player Smash seems to push the hardware to its limits considering stages have certain background elements and bosses removed. Some character models are also downgraded a bit. 8-player Smash with all players picking Ice Climbers would effectively amount to 16 characters running at once.

Sakurai did claim that Ice Climbers ran fine on the Wii U version, though we can't be sure if that was at a development phase where 8-player Smash had been implemented already or not.

 

[SmashChu]

Luma is controlled directly by player inputs and has a simplistic AI for when returning to Rosalina. It's a simple object tied to Rosalina (not unlike a projectile or such).

Nana, on the other hand, is a full-fledged character with a special AI program running constantly (Nana's movements are synchronized to the player, but they still have a slight delay as she doesn't respond directly to the player's input). Technically speaking, Ice Climbers are effectively two player characters running at once, putting a bigger strain on the CPU.

The 3DS version seems to only be able to handle 5 players at once, as Multi-Man mode has 4 opponents at once as opposed to 5 and that number is cut down to 3 when playing co-op. It could handle more players, but it's likely prone to frame rate drops and similar issues.

The Wii U version can handle more players at once, but even so 8-player Smash seems to push the hardware to its limits considering stages have certain background elements and bosses removed. Some character models are also downgraded a bit. 8-player Smash with all players picking Ice Climbers would effectively amount to 16 characters running at once.

Sakurai did claim that Ice Climbers ran fine on the Wii U version, though we can't be sure if that was at a development phase where 8-player Smash had been implemented already or not.

Very interesting. So in order for my idea to work, the second Climber would have to be more of an object rather than a separate character. I also wonder if some of the problems would be fixed if Nana would respond directly to your input. Maybe make the animations a bit different to compensate. It might not work, but it's a thought.

Perhaps with post release content, Sakurai and his team and continue working on the Climbers and make them work.

 

[Frostwraith]

Very interesting. So in order for my idea to work, the second Climber would have to be more of an object rather than a separate character. I also wonder if some of the problems would be fixed if Nana would respond directly to your input. Maybe make the animations a bit different to compensate. It might not work, but it's a thought.

Perhaps with post release content, Sakurai and his team and continue working on the Climbers and make them work.

Maybe.

They did say that the reasons they were cut was due to lack of time to get them running well on the 3DS version. They didn't imply it was impossible, just that finding a solution more time consuming than desired.

An understandable predicament, as development has a limited time and is scheduled, so they don't have the luxury to take too much time to implement something, as it can drag the next phases and delay the schedule.

This is why the Ice Climbers were dropped and the team went on to develop other, more feasible features that could be implemented faster.

If they had insisted on finishing the Ice Climbers, they could have compromised the entire game's development. Such risks are not wise to take when there are deadlines to meet.

As they had advertised since the beginning that both games would have the same roster, they had no choice but drop the Ice Climbers entirely as leaving them as Wii U exclusives would be effectively amount to false advertising.

I don't think this was an easy decision, as the fact they had them running on the Wii U version meant that resources and time have been spent for nothing (unless they can implement them successfully on the 3DS and bring them back as DLC). But that isn't a uncommon occurrence in software development, as ideas are often dropped to accommodate resource restrictions.

Sakurai has even stated that more characters have been planned than those in the final game. Likely, that goes for other features as well.

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

How high are ICs now? Are they one of the most requested characters still?

 

[Dynamo68]

Should we continue voting for this character?
I want them to be single fighters (Nana as an alternate costume) instead of a pair.

I'll definitely keep voting.

 

[ROBnWatch]

I'll definitely keep voting.

Hey! YOU'RE BACK! How's it been???