culexus・wau
Purchased premium only to change name ><
In this thread I shall be breaking down lucario's options on getting up from the ledge.
I will also be covering stall options
[collapse=Move]
Description: description of the move
Covers: What it covers
Loses to: What it loses to[/collapse]
will edit frame data in later [gotta talk to kinzer/kita].
Basic Options.
[collapse=Get-up <100]
Description: Fast Get-up
Covers: slow moves (buffer into shield or roll), quickly getting up in general
Loses to: Meaty Attacks, Grabs, etc[/collapse]
[collapse=Get-Up Attack <100]
Description: Imagine forward smash, but quick, from the ledge, and amazing, blind spot behind lucario.
Covers: Attacks, just standing
Loses to: Shield, Roll, jumping over. [/collapse]
[collapse=Get-up Roll <100]
Description: Quick Roll onto the stage, purely mix-up as below 100 get-up buffer f-roll covers almost everything this does.
Covers: attacking in one place
Loses to: moves that cover both sides, easily reacted to so OOS options are possible [/collapse]
[collapse=Get-up Jump]
Description: Our best Ledge Option in my opinion, due to the fact we have 4 very viable mix-ups off it [and a bunch of other not-so viable mix-ups, but ok nonetheless] no differences below or above 100?
-Buffer Airdodge
Covers: Attacking
Loses to: Delayed Attacking D:
-Buffer Dair
Covers: People standing there, attacks/projectiles that are going high.
Loses to: Shields
-Buffer Double Team
Covers: Attacking
Loses to: Waiting
-Buffer Footstool/Jump
Covers: Shielding, simply waiting
Loses to: very quick attacks (slower attacks although won't be interupted can be immediately airdodged after jumping) [/collapse]
[collapse= Get-Up >=100]
Description: Slower version of get-up, very laggy and easily reacted to, pure mix-up. keep in mind Get up roll and get up over 100 look the same at the beginning.
Covers: Waiting for get-up attack in shield sometimes if they're slow
Loses to: holding shield and meaty grab, various other hitboxes [/collapse]
[collapse= Get-Up Roll >=100]
Description: Slower then the below 100 version, but since it puts you midway into the stage I believe its better then ledge get-up over 100 looks the same as get-up in the begining
Covers: Holding Shield, sometimes attacks
Loses to: Buffer turnaround OOS
hitboxes that cover both sides, meaty hitboxes[/collapse]
[collapse=Get-Up Attack >=100]
Description: Lucario Flips onto the stage, Gets up in an Arc unlike below 100, so doesn't lose to SH as much, less horizontal range?
Covers: Attacks, SH baiting
Loses to: Shield [/collapse]
Advanced Options.
the most invulnerability frames you have letting go from the edge is 20.
[collapse=Ledge Drop Snap Cancel]
Description: Drop from the ledge (jump? you don't have to but makes it easier for me and you get it back anyway) UpB Ledge Cancel. Can buffer any action afterwards and your jump is restored.
Covers: depends on what you do
Loses to: depends on what you do[/collapse]
[collapse=ledge drop jump fair/uair/nair]
Description: dropping from the ledge and jump fairing, you'll have some invuln frames if you do immediately.
Fair: buffer something afterwards
Uair: ^^^
Nair: Fast Fall asap or delay the nair so you get the strong hitbox right before you land for it to be safe on block.
Covers: Attacking, Shielding sometimes
Loses to: Attacking once the invuln wears off [/collapse]
[collapse=Ledgedrop Jump Buffer BAS -> Snap Cancel]
Description: Buffer a SH BAS and buffer a snap cancel afterward, have multiple options post snapcancel, takes time to set-up but is effective.
Covers: Dashing, standing there
Loses to: walking and perfect shielding. [/collapse]
[collapse=Ledgedrop Jump Airdodge]
Description: Simple but effective, 4 way mix-up between Nair, Dair, AD again or Double Team
-Nair
Covers: Shielding, not very quick attacks
Loses to: perfect shielding, invincible moves or sidestep
-Dair
Covers: Attacks that are nair is too slow to beat
Loses to: shielding (there is more time to react then FF nair)
-Airdodge Again
Covers: nothing much really, depends on what you buffer afterwards
Loses to: Meaty Attacks
-Double Team
Covers: Attacks
Loses to: Waiting, Meaty Attacks[/collapse]
[collapse=Ledgedrop fair/uair]
Description: a bait for people to chase you offstage, multiple options afterwards, hardest being the buffer jump Aurasphere with fair.
Covers: Depends
Loses to: Depends[/collapse]
[collapse=Ledgedrop jump Aurasphere charge]
Description: You can choose to shoot or airdodge and grab the ledge again, during the airdodge you can also decide to move forward and land onstage. if FCAS you of course, can only fire it.
Covers: waiting for you, shielding sometimes
Loses to: preemptive attacks[/collapse]
[collapse=Ledgedrop Turnaround Aurasphere charge Airdodge]
Description: Lovetaps your opponent with a hit of aurasphere charge and then Airdodge cancel it. can choose to go onstage or grab the ledge again post airdodge. Gimmick mix-up? not sure, only started using it recently.
Covers: TBA
Loses to:TBA[/collapse]
[collapse=Ledgedrop jump/ES regrab]
Description: grabs the ledge again, depending on how low you go you open yourself to getting edgehogged and depending on how high you go you might get hit.
Covers: depends
Loses to: depends[/collapse]
[/collapse=Ledgedrop jump Forward Aurasphere Charge]
Description: Goes into any ASC cancel once you hit the floor, needs respect to work, risky mix-up, can be canceled into airdodge if you think they'll attack tho
Covers: depends
Loses to: preemptive attacks, depends.[/collapse]
[collapse=Ledgedrop B reverse Aurasphere Charge]
Description: Used for either a cross-up grab or to hit people with the charge hitbox. sorta gimmicky.
Covers: Depends
Loses to: preemptive attacks, depends [/collapse]
if I missed anything or you want anything added tell me.
work in progress
I will also be covering stall options
[collapse=Move]
Description: description of the move
Covers: What it covers
Loses to: What it loses to[/collapse]
will edit frame data in later [gotta talk to kinzer/kita].
Basic Options.
[collapse=Get-up <100]
Description: Fast Get-up
Covers: slow moves (buffer into shield or roll), quickly getting up in general
Loses to: Meaty Attacks, Grabs, etc[/collapse]
[collapse=Get-Up Attack <100]
Description: Imagine forward smash, but quick, from the ledge, and amazing, blind spot behind lucario.
Covers: Attacks, just standing
Loses to: Shield, Roll, jumping over. [/collapse]
[collapse=Get-up Roll <100]
Description: Quick Roll onto the stage, purely mix-up as below 100 get-up buffer f-roll covers almost everything this does.
Covers: attacking in one place
Loses to: moves that cover both sides, easily reacted to so OOS options are possible [/collapse]
[collapse=Get-up Jump]
Description: Our best Ledge Option in my opinion, due to the fact we have 4 very viable mix-ups off it [and a bunch of other not-so viable mix-ups, but ok nonetheless] no differences below or above 100?
-Buffer Airdodge
Covers: Attacking
Loses to: Delayed Attacking D:
-Buffer Dair
Covers: People standing there, attacks/projectiles that are going high.
Loses to: Shields
-Buffer Double Team
Covers: Attacking
Loses to: Waiting
-Buffer Footstool/Jump
Covers: Shielding, simply waiting
Loses to: very quick attacks (slower attacks although won't be interupted can be immediately airdodged after jumping) [/collapse]
[collapse= Get-Up >=100]
Description: Slower version of get-up, very laggy and easily reacted to, pure mix-up. keep in mind Get up roll and get up over 100 look the same at the beginning.
Covers: Waiting for get-up attack in shield sometimes if they're slow
Loses to: holding shield and meaty grab, various other hitboxes [/collapse]
[collapse= Get-Up Roll >=100]
Description: Slower then the below 100 version, but since it puts you midway into the stage I believe its better then ledge get-up over 100 looks the same as get-up in the begining
Covers: Holding Shield, sometimes attacks
Loses to: Buffer turnaround OOS
hitboxes that cover both sides, meaty hitboxes[/collapse][collapse=Get-Up Attack >=100]
Description: Lucario Flips onto the stage, Gets up in an Arc unlike below 100, so doesn't lose to SH as much, less horizontal range?
Covers: Attacks, SH baiting
Loses to: Shield [/collapse]
Advanced Options.
the most invulnerability frames you have letting go from the edge is 20.
[collapse=Ledge Drop Snap Cancel]
Description: Drop from the ledge (jump? you don't have to but makes it easier for me and you get it back anyway) UpB Ledge Cancel. Can buffer any action afterwards and your jump is restored.
Covers: depends on what you do
Loses to: depends on what you do[/collapse]
[collapse=ledge drop jump fair/uair/nair]
Description: dropping from the ledge and jump fairing, you'll have some invuln frames if you do immediately.
Fair: buffer something afterwards
Uair: ^^^
Nair: Fast Fall asap or delay the nair so you get the strong hitbox right before you land for it to be safe on block.
Covers: Attacking, Shielding sometimes
Loses to: Attacking once the invuln wears off [/collapse]
[collapse=Ledgedrop Jump Buffer BAS -> Snap Cancel]
Description: Buffer a SH BAS and buffer a snap cancel afterward, have multiple options post snapcancel, takes time to set-up but is effective.
Covers: Dashing, standing there
Loses to: walking and perfect shielding. [/collapse]
[collapse=Ledgedrop Jump Airdodge]
Description: Simple but effective, 4 way mix-up between Nair, Dair, AD again or Double Team
-Nair
Covers: Shielding, not very quick attacks
Loses to: perfect shielding, invincible moves or sidestep
-Dair
Covers: Attacks that are nair is too slow to beat
Loses to: shielding (there is more time to react then FF nair)
-Airdodge Again
Covers: nothing much really, depends on what you buffer afterwards
Loses to: Meaty Attacks
-Double Team
Covers: Attacks
Loses to: Waiting, Meaty Attacks[/collapse]
[collapse=Ledgedrop fair/uair]
Description: a bait for people to chase you offstage, multiple options afterwards, hardest being the buffer jump Aurasphere with fair.
Covers: Depends
Loses to: Depends[/collapse]
[collapse=Ledgedrop jump Aurasphere charge]
Description: You can choose to shoot or airdodge and grab the ledge again, during the airdodge you can also decide to move forward and land onstage. if FCAS you of course, can only fire it.
Covers: waiting for you, shielding sometimes
Loses to: preemptive attacks[/collapse]
[collapse=Ledgedrop Turnaround Aurasphere charge Airdodge]
Description: Lovetaps your opponent with a hit of aurasphere charge and then Airdodge cancel it. can choose to go onstage or grab the ledge again post airdodge. Gimmick mix-up? not sure, only started using it recently.
Covers: TBA
Loses to:TBA[/collapse]
[collapse=Ledgedrop jump/ES regrab]
Description: grabs the ledge again, depending on how low you go you open yourself to getting edgehogged and depending on how high you go you might get hit.
Covers: depends
Loses to: depends[/collapse]
[/collapse=Ledgedrop jump Forward Aurasphere Charge]
Description: Goes into any ASC cancel once you hit the floor, needs respect to work, risky mix-up, can be canceled into airdodge if you think they'll attack tho
Covers: depends
Loses to: preemptive attacks, depends.[/collapse]
[collapse=Ledgedrop B reverse Aurasphere Charge]
Description: Used for either a cross-up grab or to hit people with the charge hitbox. sorta gimmicky.
Covers: Depends
Loses to: preemptive attacks, depends [/collapse]
if I missed anything or you want anything added tell me.
work in progress
