Bread and butter combos?

[Ziodyne]

But wenbo, aren't there certain times when reverse-bair/uair work as a mixup to guarantee a kill?

For instance, I just stomped a Fox at 50~%, so he's at 70%. I'm around the center stage of FD and he just went straight up. I'm pretty sure he'll survival DI the knee to stay around a little longer (which could actually be a while longer if the fox is good lol). If I reverse-bair though, he pops himself up perfectly for a knee with his DI. In this situation, wouldn't reverse bair be a good option?

 

[The Irish Mafia]

First, what do you mean by "bread & butter"? The product of a pre 40% combo should be to get them to 40, so no autocombo will get you past that, let alone to a kill. nine times out of ten, falcons drop their pre-40 combo because they try to use an attack instead of just grabbing, techchasing, or regrabbing. Point is, if you want "guaranteed" followups, they don't exist and they aren't safe because of how crouch cancel and other pre 40 properties work. You will be better off learning to reaction techchase. If you can dthrow a fox to 40 into a techchase knee, he'll probably die. If you want a low percent autocombo tree, take it with a grain of salt, knowing that there's no always or never in melee. They can always mix up DI, or mash a move, or time a jump intelligently, or just do a specific counter to whatever "guaranteed" combo you had.

Spoiler

Vs Fox/Falco/Falcon
Pre~30, nair combos into grab, unless they buffer dodge. (If they do it once, they'll probably do it every time.) Nair g
Stomp at zero puts falcon into a crumple state, which you can combo into grab. Against the spacies, stomp knocks down unless it is decayed, in which case you get that same state. Stomp combos into grab after ~15, but it requires a near perfect l-cancel into running jc grab.
I'll mention that when landing stomp pre 40, the closer they are to zero, the more likely they are to miss the tech. No guarantees.
Below 40, you cannot combo stomp into grab or knee on reaction. You can, however, do it on prediction. After 40 it's more easily reacted to.
Side B might be the least advisable move falcon has, but it does put everyone into air knockdown at zero, assuming they aren't crouch canceling. It will auto combo into every aerial at zero. It does 7%, the same as dthrow, so while dthrow doesn't autocombo quite the same, the followup options are the same on hit confirmation.
Side b/dthrow (7) into knee (18) does 25%. This combo will knock down the spacies, and since it's at the lowest percent that the knee can knock down, it's another very commonly missed tech. While spacies must be at 7% for knee to knock down, falcon must be at 9%, meaning dthrow knee at zero leaves him standing. If launcher-knee leaves them below 25%, the knee can be comboed into grab.
At exactly 50, uthrow combos into dtilt vs spacies. This is also the lowest percent at which dtilt will knock down spacies, so it usually forces a missed tech. You've probably seen silentspectre do this. Interestingly enough, this combo starts earlier vs falcon, at 45%. You can then follow up into otg stomp, then knee.
Vs spacies, uthrow combos into uair around 65, nair around 70, and knee at exactly 100. vs falcon, the numbers are the same but about 10% lower.
Once they reach 40, combos follow the archetype of launcher-> extension / finisher, or extension -> extension/finisher, so on and so forth. You've seen IKM before, you know how it's done. While doing your 8 hit combo is all well and good, remember that people aren't ******** anymore and they figure out how to DI by the 3rd hit or so. Choose when you knee to optimise off the bad di; if they die from knee at 50, they're gonna start diing up a lot more.

I'm willing to write a similar thing for throw followups in other matchups if there's interest.

 

[RedGamer]

If you wann do something really fancy, do reverse bairs all the way across the stage. (be sure to put it on youtube and send me the link lol)

 

[kyaputenfarukon07]

auto combos lol
just hope for bad di
that is the bread and butter of melee

 

[DoH]

Isn't Falcon just all auto-combos anyway? I mean y'all have been doing the same **** darkrain did in 2004 and are still creaming your pants over it because it all ends in knee and it has teh thunder

 

[gravy]

I tried to predict DOH's comment. I got pretty close. The Darkrain threw me though, I should have seen it coming.

 

[RedGamer]

falcon isn't all auto-combo only mostly lol
go to youtube and search "ariquenuubs" combo video

btw teh thunder is my name

 

[Wenbobular]

But wenbo, aren't there certain times when reverse-bair/uair work as a mixup to guarantee a kill?

For instance, I just stomped a Fox at 50~%, so he's at 70%. I'm around the center stage of FD and he just went straight up. I'm pretty sure he'll survival DI the knee to stay around a little longer (which could actually be a while longer if the fox is good lol). If I reverse-bair though, he pops himself up perfectly for a knee with his DI. In this situation, wouldn't reverse bair be a good option?

That's not guaranteed because he might DI away
You could be wrong on your assumption that they'll DI in
Granted a lot of people will but you don't know that

 

[Ziodyne]

you're right in that guarantee isn't really the word i'm looking for

i dunno, i think it's just a nifty lil mixup that actually has a good chance of working against a relatively competent fox if they don't see it too often.

 

[Nicco]

Wow, so many cool ideas here!

Thank you IrishMafia, that was really cool info!

I didn't realise anyone would take this thread seriously, since I was looking for "guaranteed" combos.
I come from the original SSB, where the combos are almost always guaranteed, since you can only SDI in that game.

Bair to knee looks so sweet, and I'm gonna start experimenting with it soon.
Also, I'm starting to use the special moves alot more. Thanks to GG7 lol. Edgeguarding with Falcon Kick+Raptor Boost is so much fun!

In all srsness tho, can someone explain when to nair instead of uair, once you got a combo going? I see alot of stuff like nair-uair-nair or uair-nair-uair. Mostly on characters like Doc, Peach and Marth I think.

 

[gravy]

Deciding when to nair and when to uair is relatively intuitive. You'll decide to Uair a lot when you're just trying to carry someone across the stage, like Peach or Peach or Peach, but nair is great for when you have a chance to connect to knee and you need more time to keep them in hitstun/land on the ground. Remember than Nair stuns them more than uair, which is why it's a better idea to dthrow nair at low percents instead of dthrow uair. Just keep testing it out, you'll figure it out.

 

[ElloEddy]

falcon is just as auto as sheik...he's just manly and cool so it glorified by melee players =D ....only un-auto (damn that takes alot of practice) falcon stuff it he platform and re-grab (just because im a boss and wanna style) combos

*edit (and them darkrain and hax combo stuff takes practice as well )

 

[Laijin]

BnBs barely exist in this game because of DI, crouch cancelling, etc etc. Lots of factors.
The most I can think of are chain grabs, Young Link bomb n-air on most characters...stuff like that.

 

[kyaputenfarukon07]

nair can eat through some projectiles like turnips and pills

 

[RedGamer]

Wow, so many cool ideas here!
In all srsness tho, can someone explain when to nair instead of uair, once you got a combo going? I see alot of stuff like nair-uair-nair or uair-nair-uair. Mostly on characters like Doc, Peach and Marth I think.

Deciding when to nair and when to uair is relatively intuitive. You'll decide to Uair a lot when you're just trying to carry someone across the stage, like Peach or Peach or Peach

I see what you did there.

but on the real, I just nair whenever there isn't enough time/space/damage to Uair.
just experiment with it and see what works.

(PS: whenever you're on a flat stage, all you have to do is chaingrab and tschcahse)

 

[Wenbobular]

Uair is much better than Nair when they're at your head level or above because you can usually delay it a little for maximum time to get the next hit (obviously the fact that it hits above your head is also a plus <_<)

Nair is not very good a lot of the time because it's so slow that they can often react to it with DI away, or if they're a floaty they can sometimes just hold up and the second hit won't connect

Nair IS better at low % when Uair won't combo into anything though ... better players will just hold down and buffer roll or something but Dthrow Nair on floaties can actually work

Thing to remember about Nair is that you need to start it very fast out of your shorthop if you're trying to do close to the ground combo

 

[The Irish Mafia]

My frustration with nair is that ****ing everyone SDI's the first hit. I love seeing triple nair though. HRC acrobatic combo.
Uair's just a massive hitbox with good trajectory. It sucks that people can mash out of uair->uair before like 30 unless you do it perfectly.
*daydreams of $mike's uair combos*
The only time Uair is that great at starting combos is if you read a fullhop approach or as a reaction to a doublejump. It's an anti-air. Just throw that **** out if you think they're gonna jump and be ready to confirm off of it.
Oh also, bair to knee is more or less an autocombo, moreso than nair/uair imo. There really isn't a good way to DI it and it's hard to tech. The hard part is hitting the turnaround -> dash -> short/fullhop.
The trick to doing your super-extended dream-magic combo video zero to death is regrabbing. You might see 8 hit aerial offstage combos in IKM, but this is real life, and people don't always DI like idiots. If you find yourself trying to do three aerials in one combo, there's a high chance it's gonna drop, simply because you're using too many attacks. Find a time when they're gonna hit the ground and not be in knockdown, and bait a mashed aerial or doublejump before grabbing the lag or uairing, respectively.

 

[Wenbobular]

Strong Bair isn't really that much better than Uair at comboing into knee ... it doesn't have a launcher type trajectory like raptor boost. I think people are just more afraid of Bair / aren't expecting it somehow if you're turned backward so they DI in

DIing Bair away leads to the same result as DIing Uair away, you're not going to get a knee off someone DIing away on a Bair

Uair comes out faster which makes it easier to do late than Bair

 

[gravy]

Dude I'll figure out exactly what percents Uair and Bair combo into anything and end this debate once and for all.

 

[The Irish Mafia]

Strong Bair isn't really that much better than Uair at comboing into knee ... it doesn't have a launcher type trajectory like raptor boost. I think people are just more afraid of Bair / aren't expecting it somehow if you're turned backward so they DI in

DIing Bair away leads to the same result as DIing Uair away, you're not going to get a knee off someone DIing away on a Bair

Uair comes out faster which makes it easier to do late than Bair

Yeah, but it's a lot easier to land, lol. You can bair people out of your dashdance a lot easier than you can uair them. It's specifically during that first-hit initiation that it's so useful- You can trade bair, knock em down, and knee. Ideally you win the trade and manage to hit them before they hit the ground. Uair generally requires a launcher or good positioning to land or combo out of.

 

[Nicco]

I have problems hitting the reverse bair. I know it's propably not the most viable, but I'm a sucker for flashiness. Another question: Is the Project M gentleman the same as the NTSC one? Or is it a mix between PAL and NTSC?

 

[RedGamer]

I have problems hitting the reverse bair. I know it's propably not the most viable, but I'm a sucker for flashiness.

the reverse B-air in melee is easiest to land when you and your opponent are both moving imo.
since bair is designed to hit behind (BACK air), try to get as close to them as possible before using it so that the reverse hitbox can connect.

Another question: Is the Project M gentleman the same as the NTSC one? Or is it a mix between PAL and NTSC?

I am curious about this as well.
All I do know is that in P:M, just use A->A->Z for a camecube controller.

 

[Wenbobular]

Just press A three times it's very easy <_<

 

[RedGamer]

All I do know is that in P:M, just use A->A->Z for a camecube controller.

thank you Mr. Wenbo, sir. (not being sarcastic)
It really doesn' t matter how you do it.
I do A->A->A in melee, but I play project m very differently.

 

[oksas]

Isn't Falcon just all auto-combos anyway? I mean y'all have been doing the same **** darkrain did in 2004 and are still creaming your pants over it because it all ends in knee and it has teh thunder

hah

as if the knee gets old

 

[TheGoat]

falcon is just as auto as sheik

 

[mastermoo420]

Wenbo saving the day