Brawl is very close...

[teamrocketspy621]

And the two things I worry about most are the Tier List and what will be tournament legal, if there is any.

Let me start with the Tier List. Both games have had a Tier List, and I doubt that Brawl will be any different.

Or will it?

Pokemon Trainer is three Pokemon in one character. Will he be grouped as one "Pokemon Trainer" on the Tier List (likely low-tier due to the almost-forced Pokemon switching), or will Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard be separated on the Tier List? This matter may be what concerns me the most about the Tier List for Brawl, although the whole Samus/Zero Suit Samus problem worries me quite a bit, as well.

Another thing that worries me is tournament legal, if there is any. Most stages are relatively simple, and I can see multiple stages -- Battlefield, Smashville, Yoshi's Island -- being tournament legal. It's almost like Sakurai has designed most of the stages with tournament legal in mind. This is good, because this means that there will only be a few stages that won't be tournament legal.

However, what worries me most is the Smash Balls. Yes, you heard me right. Smash Balls. By the looks of things, Smash Balls aren't true items, like a Bumper or Cracker Launcher. They seem to appear on stages whenever -- and even wherever -- they please. Does this mean that they could possibly be unable to be turned off, allowing for unfair disadvantages in tournament matches? For example, a 1v1 match. One player is in the lead, but the whole match turns around when the other player suddenly grabs the Smash Ball and unleashes an unfairly powerful Final Smash.

Can there truly be any tournament legal? Can there truly be a tier list?

Discuss, please.

 

[Icarus Descent]

I'm sorry for this post but what is a tier list *sorry*

 

[lukintosh]

I'm sorry for this post but what is a tier list *sorry*

It is the ranking list of characters based on their meta-game(how well they perform at tournaments)

 

[Doggalina]

I'm guessing Final Smashes can be turned off. Hopefully stage hazards can be turned off too.

 

[Twin Dreams]

A tier list seperates the playable characters into how good they are.


The pokemon will each be a different spot on the tier list. See: Zelda & Sheik




Also, The Final Smashes don't look like OMGWTFPWN moves. This is just another hammer. If they can't be turned off. People will find away around it. Giga Bowser.....Pikachu's Thunder Ball thing...... Mario's Fire ball........ All avoidable. Actually, if you watch the trailer, it appears as though Link doesn't go anywhere when hit with Mario's Fireball. So, I'm not really worried about it.

 

[Kirby knight]

I'm guessing Final Smashes can be turned off. Hopefully stage hazards can be turned off too.

That's just stupid. Most stage hazards are not random (as items are) and after a few sittings though the stage you should know where the hazards are. If you have that much of a problem with stage hazards play FD or BF.

Sakurai's not going to give the option to turn off stage hazards when people worked so hard on incorporating those elements into them, that is why he has stages like FD, and BF.

-Knight

 

[Andromeda]

Now that you mention it... Yes, PT will probably be cut of into 3 characters.

 

[Frogla]

well i doubt they would be cut into 3, since you must be good with all of them to succed with PT

 

[TheSpindoctor]

I think you have a problem with your little theory here. You are under the misconception that the majority of people that play smash bros use advanced techniques, go to tournaments all the time and stuff like that.
Most people that play smash dont even know what wavedashing. DI,or L-canceling is, and if they do they probably have only heard of them and dont really apply them.

If anything, Sakurai is not thinking of the roughly 20 percent of "hardcore"smash bros. players, he is thinking of the 80 percent of people that are casual players.

 

[CartooN]

Personally I dont think the final smashes look that unfair. But the fact that smash balls spawn will come down to the age old "Items fair or not?" question. and if it ends up like melee did, wether the items are fair or not, its where they spawned that was classed as unfair.

 

[shipoffools]

Zelda and Sheik have a different tier because you dont have to be Zelda for a second of the battle, they're two entirely seperate entities. PT on the other hand into order to accomplish anything you MUST switch played frequently in order to achieve any type of succees. The difference between PT and Zelda/Sheik is that with PT you must work as a team, while with Z/S they might as well be two different characters. If anything PT should have a tier list within a tier list, where PT is on the overall tier list and then the 3 Pokemon are rated against eachother.

Everything you said is not consistant. Why would Sakurai have a tournament mindset for one area of gameplay (stages) but then totally shun the idea in characters and items? In the end, he's just trying to make a sweet video game reguardless. He knows how big tounreys are; he'll make everything work out in the end. HEveryone needs to have a little more faith in the man.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

Can there truly be any tournament legal? Can there truly be a tier list?

Yes. Yes. It has already been done. Brawl will present new challenges in this area, but the community will overcome.

As for the Pokemon Trainer tier list entry, I can see a few possibilities. Unlike Zelda and Sheik, the various pokemon have a form of "stamina" (see. their DOJO entry). So, supposedly the player cannot stay on any single pokemon for the duration of a match without suffering penalties. Therefore, I believe that Pokemon Trainer will have his own single spot on the tier list. However, since the three pokemon are quite different, people will analyze their strengths/weaknesses on an individual basis to no end. So, perhaps the tier list could feature "ghost entries": the three pokemon will be inserted into the tier list to show where they would be if they were their own characters.

 

[JPW]

god... swome of you guys takev this game way too seriously with the tier list and tournament rules. Why can't you just have fun. And play smash for fun like me.

Forget the rules play with items or play with final smashes, or play any character you want.

Forget the list and requirements.

 

[Demon Kirby]

I don't think Smash Balls will be allowed in tournaments, because of this:

Stage is Battlefield, a fast character with good jumping (Meta Knight) is on the left, and Bowser (Slow, bad jumping, etc) is on the right. Suddenly a Smash Ball appears in the middle of the stage, and it's obvious who's going to get it. Bye bye Bowser.

 

[:034:]

We'll see when the game is out. For Pokémon trainer, it's probably one spot due to the necessary constant switching. You have to play all three of them (though there might be a loophole somewhere).

 

[Twin Dreams]

Depends on the stamina.


As it stands now, matches aren't that long. Usually lasting 2-4 minutes. If they can make that duration without switching.....

They'll each have their own.

 

[Artc]

We won't really know until the game comes out.

PT, I think it(they) will be one character, since you are forced to play as all of them due to the stamina thing. With sheik and Zelda you could just be one. As for ZS and Samus I'm not sure, it depends on if you can start as Zamus or not.

And the final smashes don't seem to be game breaking anyway, and I anticipate that they can be turned off.

Give Sakurai some credit, he'll come though for us.

 

[Kentalish]

TBH i dont give a crap about tiers and PT u cant play as one of the pokemon cuz they have stamina so i think heil be fun.. like i always say at the first brawl tourny everyone is going to play as all the characters in a tourny i doubt there will be a single character not played at it

 

[Terrabottuti]

This will probably sound lame, but most of these questions will be answered when the game comes out... it's impossible to tell by Sakurai's slightly vague updates and screenshots!
What I can safely say though is that people are always more than willing to make tier lists for fighting games... it doesn't matter how wierd the game is, people will always find a way to calculate who should logically win in a match.

To the best of my knowledge, the Pokemon Trainer would require 4 tier spots... one for him and all his pokemon in the general scheme of things, and possibly a more in-depth section with his pokemon since they are all thier own characters, even if they have to switch out every now and then!

 

[Kentalish]

there not there own characters they share % and apparently if u use the same pokemon the whole match your noob cause of the stamina

 

[Demon Kirby]

there not there own characters they share % and apparently if u use the same pokemon the whole match your noob cause of the stamina

I'm gonna go ahead and call you a "Noob" because you failed first grade English class.

 

[Kentalish]

wow man this is a forums if i was the topic starter it would be different theres no rule agains proper grammer on this forum

 

[Demon Kirby]

wow man this is a forums if i was the topic starter it would be different theres no rule agains proper grammer on this forum

I know, but it hurts my brain to try to translate it. Years of playing MMORPGs have helped though.

 

[Kentalish]

is it cuz i did there instead of they're?

 

[mario-man]

god... swome of you guys takev this game way too seriously with the tier list and tournament rules. Why can't you just have fun. And play smash for fun like me.

Forget the rules play with items or play with final smashes, or play any character you want.

Forget the list and requirements.

You make it sound like our way of playing isn't fun. It is. Your way may be fun to you, but to me (and others), we like it without items and such because it is fun to us when we use skill. Not that it takes no skill to win with items. It just adds that "random" factor and removes some of the skill factor. Which of course we don't want.

 

[Kentalish]

im going to play with fs turned on... i hope its not on a item catagory

 

[TheSpindoctor]

I think you have a problem with your little theory here. You are under the misconception that the majority of people that play smash bros use advanced techniques, go to tournaments all the time and stuff like that.
Most people that play smash dont even know what wavedashing. DI,or L-canceling is, and if they do they probably have only heard of them and dont really apply them.

If anything, Sakurai is not thinking of the roughly 20 percent of "hardcore"smash bros. players, he is thinking of the 80 percent casual players.

 

[M.K]

Ehh, I don't think that "most" players are tournament, advanced players, but a good chunk of them are. As you can tell, Sakurai is trying to appeal to both the casual, non-casual, and lonely player (See "Tourny" Update).

 

[Luke Groundwalker]

I don't worry about it too much. But, however, all fighting game have tier lists, but they aren't completely accurate at all times, which is why there's constant changes to them. I do hope that there's more balance to the tier list than in the past games, however.

And I'm pretty sure Smashballs are going to be items, which is why they appear under the item section.

 

[Pluvia's other account]

Actually, tourney players all the minority. They are out classed by millions.

But, who really cares how other people play?

 

[vesperview]

SO many topics on this already!

 

[Kentalish]

i dont see smash balls in the item part of the dojo

 

[Luke Groundwalker]

i dont see smash balls in the item part of the dojo

Sorry, I missed that, but I still think they're going to be items. The updates that introduces the Smashballs say that they are, so I highly doubt they would have anything special about them to not be considered items like the other items.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

I don't see FS's turning the tide of a battle that drastically. The way I see it, I would have more admiration for someone who was on the recieving end of the FS yet was able to win despite that as opposed to the person who wants everything to be "fair".

Tournaments are communistic, ne?

 

[Tony_]

And the two things I worry about most are the Tier List and what will be tournament legal, if there is any.

Let me start with the Tier List. Both games have had a Tier List, and I doubt that Brawl will be any different.

Or will it?

Pokemon Trainer is three Pokemon in one character. Will he be grouped as one "Pokemon Trainer" on the Tier List (likely low-tier due to the almost-forced Pokemon switching), or will Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard be separated on the Tier List? This matter may be what concerns me the most about the Tier List for Brawl, although the whole Samus/Zero Suit Samus problem worries me quite a bit, as well.

PT SHOULD be a singular character, and if their is a tier list, he will be low tier.

Another thing that worries me is tournament legal, if there is any. Most stages are relatively simple, and I can see multiple stages -- Battlefield, Smashville, Yoshi's Island -- being tournament legal. It's almost like Sakurai has designed most of the stages with tournament legal in mind. This is good, because this means that there will only be a few stages that won't be tournament legal.

Actually, its the opposite. Only 3 stage so far are tournament legal compared to melee's six. These will probably be the only stages WITHOUT hazards in them.

However, what worries me most is the Smash Balls. Yes, you heard me right. Smash Balls. By the looks of things, Smash Balls aren't true items, like a Bumper or Cracker Launcher. They seem to appear on stages whenever -- and even wherever -- they please. Does this mean that they could possibly be unable to be turned off, allowing for unfair disadvantages in tournament matches? For example, a 1v1 match. One player is in the lead, but the whole match turns around when the other player suddenly grabs the Smash Ball and unleashes an unfairly powerful Final Smash.

Smash Balls should not be items at all. If they are, Brawl will be Melee 2.0 with online play.

 

[Red Exodus]

I'm not too concerned about the tier list, I just hope you have options. Options don't kill anyone, I wish scrubs could comprehend that.

 

[M.K]

PT SHOULD be a singular character, and if their is a tier list, he will be low tier.



Actually, its the opposite. Only 3 stage so far are tournament legal compared to melee's six. These will probably be the only stages WITHOUT hazards in them.



Smash Balls should not be items at all. If they are, Brawl will be Melee 2.0 with online play.

1. You don't KNOW that! Stop making inferences in which nobody can predict the outcome!

2. We've seen twelve stages, there are bound to be many, many more stages!

 

[Pluvia's other account]

PT SHOULD be a singular character, and if their is a tier list, he will be low tier.

********.

You know nothing.

 

[Lunytunes4.4]

I'm not too concerned about the tier list, I just hope you have options. Options don't kill anyone, I wish scrubs could comprehend that.

i know man it just makes no sense


they will probably be a tier list as usual

now tourney legal i truly don't know i mean to me it only seems like 3 stages are gonna be playable in tourneys

 

[Eternalfire]

Even if Smash Balls are not items, there will be an option to turn them off. Why? Because the developing team isn't ********. Have some faith in Nintendo. They are aware of tournament rules. End of discussion.

Why do tiers matter? Just play who your favorite character is. Over time, the tiers will be refined, but just play for fun in the mean time. It's okay to play like a n00b every once an a while.