Brawl 64 - Don't Get Hit

[Rikana]

I'm looking forward to the final production. I never had an interest what you were making before - your dBrawl.

I think I suggested something for a Brawl64 before.. let me look it up.

edit: just an opinion. I'd probably like it either way if it had the ssb64 feeling. It doesn't have to be exactly the same for me - just as long as the feeling is there. For example, if everyone had their own ways of shield breaking; something hard enough to pull off but the possibility exists.

I was just talking about ssb64 last night and hoping that someone would pick up on it and make Brawl a Brawl64.

I think the project is dead anyways so..

I think it should keep everything Brawl has. Only thing to add/readjust is:

-hitstun; amplify it like crazy
-shield hitstun; same as above
-gravity worked out for individuals; more floaty
-physics; can be more like Brawl+'s physics
-manual l-cancel; reduces ALL lag
-ledge cancels
-platform drop; we will leave side stepping in but include this also. make it specific like.. control stick down + shield is side step. cStick down + shield is platform drop (side step when not on a platform)
-DJC for the originals; ness, yoshi, and peach
-possibly little adjustments for certain attacks that are broken when these things are applied

Everything else left alone so its more of a "modernized" ssb64

 

[Zantetsu]

I'm confused on the fact of how you transitioned your "dBrawl" idea into "Brawl 64" when your ideas for dBrawl were nothing like Smash 64. So did you just rename it or are you starting over completely?

Anyway if this is strictly a Smash 64 project, I'd love to help out. I once opened a thread on a 64 -> brawl project but I never did do anything with it, I didn't even know where to start and I didn't have anyone willing to truly help out. But if you need someone who has 4 years of competitive smash 64 experience, I'd be glad to help.

 

[Fireblaster]

Now if you guys want to create a 64 engine in brawl, here's the basics that you need (I'm just ignoring everything else said in this thread):

• Way more hitstun
• Way more shieldstun
• No lag when grabbing a ledge
• No autosnap ledges
• Far smaller ledgegrab distance
• 0 frames of lag on landing with an aerial (Technically, you have to press Z before landing, but making players press an extra button for no reason is a really bad design decision)
• 0 frames of input buffer
• Getting pushed backwards off a ledge while shielding does not trip you
• Some characters fall really fast while others are really floaty
• No ledgejump
• No spot dodge
• No air dodge
• No side B's
• Everyone can shield jump
• DJC on Ness and Yoshi
• No phantom hits
• No tripping

 

[Zantetsu]

Now if you guys want to create a 64 engine in brawl, here's the basics that you need (I'm just ignoring everything else said in this thread):

• Way more hitstun
• Way more shieldstun
• No lag when grabbing a ledge
• No autosnap ledges
• Far smaller ledgegrab distance
• 0 frames of lag on landing with an aerial (Technically, you have to press Z before landing, but making players press an extra button for no reason is a really bad design decision)
• 0 frames of input buffer
• Getting pushed backwards off a ledge while shielding does not trip you
• Some characters fall really fast while others are really floaty
• No ledgejump
• No spot dodge
• No air dodge
• No side B's
• Everyone can shield jump
• DJC on Ness and Yoshi
• No phantom hits
• No tripping

Adding:

• Throw power increased by a lot
• No Up/Down throws (Change Jigs up throw to forward)
• No wall jumping / wall teching

(Yes, I picked at your list because I'm trying to be a douche)

 

[Fireblaster]

Adding:

• Throw power increased by a lot
• No Up/Down throws (Change Jigs up throw to forward)
• No wall jumping / wall teching

(Yes, I picked at your list because I'm trying to be a douche)

>implying I'll get annoyed at someone improving my list

 

[Zantetsu]

>implying I'll get annoyed at someone improving my list

Yes, you suck.





A lot.

 

[Scufo]

• 0 frames of lag on landing with an aerial (Technically, you have to press Z before landing, but making players press an extra button for no reason is a really bad design decision)

Uh oh. I sense a manual vs. auto L-cancel argument coming on.

 

[Crispy4001]

Would it be possible to 'rip' the N64 Smash's physics in the same way that was done with Melee's for Project M?

I'm confused on the fact of how you transitioned your "dBrawl" idea into "Brawl 64" when your ideas for dBrawl were nothing like Smash 64. So did you just rename it or are you starting over completely?

I'm confused about this as well. If it's not a do-over, the new name is a farce. That said, I'd look forward to this project a lot if the intentions matched the title.

 

[GPDP]

Uh, if it's truly going to be Brawl64, Z-canceling MUST be included.

 

[Zantetsu]

Uh, if it's truly going to be Brawl64, Z-canceling MUST be included.

That's obvious. Now, Z-Canceling being manual or automatic is a question that remains unanswered.

 

[Scufo]

After playing tons and tons of Brawl+ and then going back to Melee, I prefer manual L-cancel. Brawl+'s "aerial lag reduction" was largely a failed experiment in my eyes. B+ could get away with it because it was aiming to be a completely new game, but if this project strives to be like Smash 64, manual L-canceling needs to be in.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

MANUAL Z-CANCELING WILL BE IN.

None of this argument over Manual vs. Auto.

For those confused, yes, I'm starting from scratch.


Way more hitstun
Way more shieldstun
No lag when grabbing a ledge Should be easy enough
No autosnap ledges Code already exists
Far smaller ledgegrab distance I'm pretty sure Tabuu can edit ledgegrab distance
0 frames of lag on landing with an aerial (Technically, you have to press Z before landing, but making players press an extra button for no reason is a really bad design decision) Uh... No. Manual Z-Canceling will remain
0 frames of input buffer
Getting pushed backwards off a ledge while shielding does not trip you
Some characters fall really fast while others are really floaty
No ledgejump
No spot dodge Done
No air dodge Done
No side B's Done
Everyone can shield jump So, uhh, Yoshi needs a shield jump.
DJC on Ness and Yoshi This I'm fairly certain was done in one of the other mods, I think + has it. Also, you forget Lucas as well.
No phantom hits Phantom hits have no effect on gameplay in Brawl, they don't even do damage. No reason to remove them except for aesthetics.
No tripping Done
Throw power increased by a lot Will be done
No Up/Down throws (Change Jigs up throw to forward) Not done yet
No wall jumping / wall teching The latter has been done.

 

[kenshen]

=D Is all i have to say will this game be as slow as smash 64?

 

[Supreme Dirt]

This game will be as close to Smash 64 as I can make it. Remember that we have more than 20 new characters in addition to the original 12, too.

The original 12 will for the most part be their Smash 64 incarnations. Some other characters will be tweaked when it comes to specials. For example, Toon Link will have no Boomerang, he will instead have the arrows, while Link has a boomerang.

 

[Zef]

I will LOVE to see Snake64, lmfao. Or Metaknight64. Anyway, you're making a newer code and not the old S-Cancel, right? I think you said something about it, idk. Is dashdancing gonna be ******** for everyone except Falcon, too?


btw all the DJC implementaton in smash mods sucks

 

[V-K]

Hitstun will remain unchanged

Wut?

10chars

 

[Zef]

Wut?

10chars

and then you read post 92 and feel stupid because its not dbrawl anymore

 

[Supreme Dirt]

I will LOVE to see Snake64, lmfao. Or Metaknight64. Anyway, you're making a newer code and not the old S-Cancel, right? I think you said something about it, idk. Is dashdancing gonna be ******** for everyone except Falcon, too?


btw all the DJC implementaton in smash mods sucks

S-Cancel? You mean Z-Cancel, I assume? And I can't make any codes at all, I don't have a USB Gecko.

DJC was in 64, so it'll be in Brawl 64

Wut?

10chars

That's the old project you're reading from. Don't know why I left it there.

 

[libertyernie]

It might be fun to get back to KOing people with throws instead of smash attacks

 

[Supreme Dirt]

I always loved Smash 64 because of the kill throws. Kirby's FThrow amused me the most. It EXPLODED, for no apparent reason.

 

[Zantetsu]

So, I have another question. If you can't make codes, what do you plan to do to contribute to this project? Also, do you have a team of people in mind such as coders, animators, etc.?

 

[Zef]

There's a code out there named S-Cancel, it gets rid of all aerial lag, like z cancel

 

[Supreme Dirt]

So, I have another question. If you can't make codes, what do you plan to do to contribute to this project? Also, do you have a team of people in mind such as coders, animators, etc.?

I'll be modifying character movesets and animations, and eventually stages.

At the moment the team seems to only consist of myself. Though standardtoaster did make me a couple of codes.

Basically, once the codes are in place, I'll start modifying the characters.

 

[standardtoaster]

Oh that's great.

I'd forgotten you couldn't wall or ceiling tech actually. This is perfect. I think I'll need to discuss inclusion of side specials with 64 players, though. Now to get a hitstun value.

How do I go about removing ability to cancel hitstun with attacks?

If you use the 2 line code for modifying hitstun, the first line actually disables the airdodge/attacking hitstun thing.

Now if you guys want to create a 64 engine in brawl, here's the basics that you need (I'm just ignoring everything else said in this thread):

• Way more hitstun
• Way more shieldstun
• No lag when grabbing a ledge
• No autosnap ledges
• Far smaller ledgegrab distance
• 0 frames of lag on landing with an aerial (Technically, you have to press Z before landing, but making players press an extra button for no reason is a really bad design decision)
• 0 frames of input buffer
• Getting pushed backwards off a ledge while shielding does not trip you
• Some characters fall really fast while others are really floaty
• No ledgejump
• No spot dodge
• No air dodge
• No side B's
• Everyone can shield jump
• DJC on Ness and Yoshi
• No phantom hits
• No tripping

most of this can be done

Adding:

• Throw power increased by a lot
• No Up/Down throws (Change Jigs up throw to forward)
• No wall jumping / wall teching

k

I can start working on the stuff from this that I did not do yet when I get another chance.

EDIT: You don't need a USB Gecko to make codes. You can make the simple codes like the ones I posted on the previous page using a fighter.pac injection. Shanus made a topic on them a long time ago. http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=266053

 

[Supreme Dirt]

I would like button-press Z-canceling, just keep that in mind.

 

[standardtoaster]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Z-Cancelling is just pressing Z at any time during attack landing lag and you go to wait, right?

 

[Crispy4001]

Glad to see this is getting off on the right foot.

 

[GP&B]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Z-Cancelling is just pressing Z at any time during attack landing lag and you go to wait, right?

IIRC, there's no fail window in 64 for a Z-cancel, but, like Melee, it must be pressed within a certain number of frames of contacting the ground.

Also, I think the ground teching window didn't have a fail window either. Another important thing: are DI functions being replicated to how they were in 64? With the knowledge of the DI ASM function, this should be very possible to some extent. And finally another thing, can a Smash 64 pro tell me if wall bouncing differed greatly? I felt like characters lingered so much more after a wall bounce (they certainly spun a lot more in a hilariously comical fashion).

Bah, one more thing: will there be reduced end lag on all grabs and no more dash grabs? Related to this, characters being grabbable during a damage bounce and in tumble should also be allowed.

 

[Zef]

But, if we're using a GC controller wouldn't it be more reasonable also mapping it to L+R+Z, since the Z buttons kinda small

 

[Fireblaster]

=D Is all i have to say will this game be as slow as smash 64?

SSB64 is faster than brawl

IIRC, there's no fail window in 64 for a Z-cancel, but, like Melee, it must be pressed within a certain number of frames of contacting the ground.

Also, I think the ground teching window didn't have a fail window either. Another important thing: are DI functions being replicated to how they were in 64? With the knowledge of the DI ASM function, this should be very possible to some extent. And finally another thing, can a Smash 64 pro tell me if wall bouncing differed greatly? I felt like characters lingered so much more after a wall bounce (they certainly spun a lot more in a hilariously comical fashion).

Bah, one more thing: will there be reduced end lag on all grabs and no more dash grabs? Related to this, characters being grabbable during a damage bounce and in tumble should also be allowed.

You are correct, there are no fail windows for Zcancelling and teching. The only DI in SSB64 was smash DI (moving your character around during hitlag, can't change trajectory). I'm not sure how different the wallbounces are but in SSB64 characters have a few frames of invincibility after bouncing off a wall.

In SSB64, non grapple grabs could be spammed as fast as grabs and their dash grabs were just like melee's JC grabs.

 

[standardtoaster]

I would map it to shield+A, which Z will also register. With no fail window, you could just spam shield and you'd tech at the right time? DI is not editable much at this time.

 

[Fireblaster]

But, if we're using a GC controller wouldn't it be more reasonable also mapping it to L+R+Z, since the Z buttons kinda small

Zcancelling means pressing shield to cancel. It's called Zcancelling because of the n64 controller.

 

[Zef]

I know, the way he typed it made him sound like he was going to map it to Z.

 

[GP&B]

SSB64 is faster than brawl

Very true and a sad misconception that I've seen many make. Players like Isai can make Smash 64 move at pretty quick speeds. It's between Brawl and Melee as far as play speed goes.

You are correct, there are no fail windows for Zcancelling and teching. The only DI in SSB64 was smash DI (moving your character around during hitlag, can't change trajectory). I'm not sure how different the wallbounces are but in SSB64 characters have a few frames of invincibility after bouncing off a wall.

So I did remember correctly. I believe Dantarion was messing around with the DI ASM and managed to tweak one constant so that there was absolutely no stick DI. I think characters might've been more sensitive to wallbounces. Look at Peach's Castle in 64 and see how ridiculously often characters will bounce off of the floating slopes rather than sliding down them. At least I'm pretty sure it's different.

In SSB64, non grapple grabs could be spammed as fast as grabs and their dash grabs were just like melee's JC grabs.

I figure they could be brought back to that and grapples could not suck as much.

 

[Lightosia]

Oh no....
Pikachu is becoming broken again.

About Metaknight64, will you guys remove the tornado, or the drill rush?

 

[Luco]

Very true and a sad misconception that I've seen many make. Players like Isai can make Smash 64 move at pretty quick speeds. It's between Brawl and Melee as far as play speed goes.



So I did remember correctly. I believe Dantarion was messing around with the DI ASM and managed to tweak one constant so that there was absolutely no stick DI. I think characters might've been more sensitive to wallbounces. Look at Peach's Castle in 64 and see how ridiculously often characters will bounce off of the floating slopes rather than sliding down them. At least I'm pretty sure it's different.



I figure they could be brought back to that and grapples could not suck as much.

I know it can move at quick speeds... Unfortunately, i played it where it was quite slow, and i wasn't used to the speed. I played as ness recently on it, and tried PK thunder multiple times. First one hit the ground. Second one went above me. Third one didn't even go to the right and back. I was too quick for it and instead of doing the loop, it turned to the laft and went that way. Fourth time i went down instead of up(and died) and fifth time i only just got it to where i wanted. Over time, i'd get it perfectly again, it's just that with my one, it's quite slow, so it's a hange from brawl, just like brawl was a change from it when i first got it.

 

[GP&B]

Dude, learn to DJC with Ness, play Falcon, Fox, or Pikachu, or just watch Isai's Link of all characters. You'd be very surprised how fast SSB64 can move.

Also, I love how far and how powerful Ness' PKT2 is in 64. It's a bit rougher to control, but it's so much more rewarding.

 

[The King Of Hearts]

When this is finished. Can you make a mod tutorial to play my N64 controller with this? and why all the jumps?

 

[GP&B]

OP needs to be updated significantly seeing as how the goal was changed.

 

[GHNeko]

>mfw dBrawl was canceled


NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO