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Smash 3DS Bowser's coming for weaves: What do you think of the game after the 3DS tournament?

Shudouken

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Dec 19, 2013
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I'm still skeptical. Alot of the gameplay looked like it had the same campiness as Brawl, and players were getting punished almost ALL the time for being agressive, save for Bowser players.
I fully agree, every defensive move is way too powerful in this build, hope they tweak it.
Look at this for example. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/47208810/air-dodge_op.webm
shiek is trying to combo and attack as fast as she can but bowser's air-dodge has a lot less lag than every attack from shiek, allowing him to just spam it and other defensive options
 

Yoshi Kirishima

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I'm saying Bowser seems to be the easier option to win among people that don't play on professional levels, even in 1vs1's. Just look at Bowser's success rate compared to other characters. Now, whether Bowser keeps that spot or not in more professional games(when Sm4sh has been out for a year or 2), remains to be seen. But...the way people played in the tournament(nobody was really above the mid-skill level due to it being their first time) is the way Sakurai intended for the game to be played. So, he blatantly made Bowser way overpowered for his demographic. The lack of Samus success rate vs Bowser's, and even Hugs not wanting to play Samus at the invitational, proves just how badly Sakurai seems to understand proper balancing.



You're right. I mixed up my words.



I'm not saying there's no ways at all to counter these, I'm saying Nintendo boosted it's effectiveness unnecessarily even further. Shield grabbing has been a thing in every Smash, but it's been especially powerfull in Brawl, and now they seemed to have buffed it even more, further encouraging everyone to shield first, act later. Yet, the opposite was necessary, encouraging people to not be afraid to attack.

As for Bowser, yes. He was indeed quite godly in FFA. Also notice how he completely annihilated the competition in 1 vs 1's and was the only one that made it to the finals. Sheik and Toon Link stood no chance in the 1vs1's. Samus hasn't been shown a single succesfull moment in either 1vs1 or FFA yet, save for Bill's all-items matches where mostly the ridiculous amount of Final Smashes decided the winner. I specifically keep mentioning Samus because Sakurai called her the most powerfull character when everybody and their dog could tell she wasn't even close.
Just to throw it out there. There was a combo found for Samus that involved stringing Zairs with a couple other moves that I forget repeatedly. Also, many people didn't expect MK to be such a good character in Brawl, let alone virtually broken. Most people felt he was pretty good but not great since he lacked ways to kill. A couple months later and people realized that he has great ways to kill.

Have more faith in Namco/Sakurai/people in general! People are just playing SSB4 fresh and there are so many things that we don't know yet. First impressions are aren't reliable at predicting how good a character will be considered a few months later when people get to figure some things out.
 
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SmashWolf

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Just to throw it out there. There was a combo found for Samus that involved stringing Zairs with a couple other moves that I forget repeatedly. Also, many people didn't expect MK to be such a good character in Brawl, let alone virtually broken. Most people felt he was pretty good but not great since he lacked ways to kill. A couple months later and people realized that he has great ways to kill.

Have more faith in Namco/Sakurai/people in general! People are just playing SSB4 fresh and there are so many things that we don't know yet. First impressions are aren't reliable at predicting how good a character will be considered a few months later when people get to figure some things out.
Oh, I'm sure there is, but at that point, we're talking about pro's. I was specifically referring to Bowser being OP for Sakurai's intended audience, low to mid-skill. Whether Bowser will fare well against pro's later in the game's lifecycle, like I said, remains to be seen. A random player picking up Samus right now facing off against a random guy using Bowser is probably going to get schooled.

Also, aren't you basically suggesting Sakurai knew beforehand about Metaknight and let it slide, and is now doing the same with Samus because of something hidden that's broken on her? Because that would make me even more worried about his balancing decisions.
 
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RPGatWill

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Oh, I'm sure there is, but at that point, we're talking about pro's. I was specifically referring to Bowser being OP for Sakurai's intended audience, low to mid-skill. Whether Bowser will fare well against pro's later in the game's lifecycle, like I said, remains to be seen. A random player picking up Samus right now facing off against a random guy using Bowser is probably going to get schooled.

Also, aren't you basically suggesting Sakurai knew beforehand about Metaknight and let it slide, and is now doing the same with Samus because of something hidden that's broken on her? Because that would make me even more worried about his balancing decisions.
I doubt that's the case at all. The only way certain balancing issues wouldn't be fixed are if there isn't enough time or they don't know about them before release. Even then nowadays there are patch updates for fighting games that can address this, so I wouldn't worry too much They'll figure it out.
 
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SmashWolf

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I doubt that's the case at all. The only way certain balancing issues wouldn't be fixed are if there isn't enough time or they don't know about them before release. Even then nowadays there are patch updates for fighting games that can address this, so I wouldn't worry too much They'll figure it out.
There's hope indeed. The E3 build was made in January, so they're far ahead of what they are now. On top of that, they had plenty of feedback from the E3 builds, so who knows, they may still get it right. My major gripe was just that Sakurai somehow thought Samus was the most powerfull in the E3 build when she was clearly not. It makes me question what his idea of "powerfull" really is. It's almost Smash tradition at this point for some characters to be much better than others, so excuse me for my skepticism.
 

UltimaLuminaire

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Getting too hyped for my own good. All this Bowser rep and I don't think I've seen so many people participating in Bowser discussions in all the time I've been registered.

I'm excited for the 3ds Smash. I love all of the analysis people here have put into it and I can't help but want more. If only there was more time in our busy schedules to devote to this. Definitely going to be checking back here frequently for more opinions and analysis from the SDCC tourney. Getting pumped!
 
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Malkior7

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I learned from that tournament that Bowser is going to be top tier
 

Yoshi Kirishima

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Oh, I'm sure there is, but at that point, we're talking about pro's. I was specifically referring to Bowser being OP for Sakurai's intended audience, low to mid-skill. Whether Bowser will fare well against pro's later in the game's lifecycle, like I said, remains to be seen. A random player picking up Samus right now facing off against a random guy using Bowser is probably going to get schooled.

Also, aren't you basically suggesting Sakurai knew beforehand about Metaknight and let it slide, and is now doing the same with Samus because of something hidden that's broken on her? Because that would make me even more worried about his balancing decisions.
Ah, ok I getcha now.

And nah, like RPGatWill said it's mostly due to lack of time. Also Sakurai's recognized that the balance hasn't been that great previously and has made it a much bigger priority in SSB4, which they seem to be living up to with all the redesigns for moves and such. He may have leaned on the side of MK being at the top rather than low or bottom, but I don't think he intentionally wanted to make him the clear #1.

Regarding Samus, I think it's more like they may wait for a while before changing the balance, as in the devs keep playing more just in case maybe they don't feel she's the best anymore, and that period was just when E3 happened.
 

jwj442

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Is it possible that when Sakurai said Samus is the strongest, he meant in the current development build? Remember that the E3 build was probably a couple months old even in June - making demos takes time. The game has changed since then.
 
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☆Jazz☆

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I always have been excited for this version. There is a 101/100% chance that i'll get it.
 

Galespark

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Looking at the Winners Finals makes me think that this time around camping playstyle is much weaker and unneffective.

I can easily see a Sheik doing a much better job in the hands of an offensive player rather than this guy's "run n fire" playstyle.

 
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RPGatWill

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Looking at the Winners Finals makes me think that this time around camping playstyle is much weaker and unneffective.

I can easily see a Sheik doing a much better job in the hands of an offensive player rather than this guy's "run a fire" playstyle.

What made me confused was how the sheik didn't get a second chance in the loser bracket they just dropped the player entirely like 'haha you should've lost sooner.' Weird.
 

Raijinken

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-There's the Brawl airdodge, letting you dodge anything anytime in midair with relatively no risk.
-The throws rarely set up for combos.
Numerous people have confirmed that even though you can multidodge in midair, it has significantly more lag than in Brawl, and is thus punishable.

And there are plenty of ways to do combos without throws. Smash 64 did fine with throws primarily as a finisher/spacemaker. Personally, I can't wait to see a game again where throws are a nice way to kill people and not the sole non-aerial combo starter.
 
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Hydde

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It is me or that sheik was clueless about the character?.

Bowser looks a little toos trong in the ko DEpartment..but sheik looked clueless.
 

Mr. KoopaTurtle

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I fully agree, every defensive move is way too powerful in this build, hope they tweak it.
Look at this for example. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/47208810/air-dodge_op.webm
shiek is trying to combo and attack as fast as she can but bowser's air-dodge has a lot less lag than every attack from shiek, allowing him to just spam it and other defensive options
This may be true, but Bowser had PLENTY of lag upon landing after that airdodge. Shiek had little to no lag when she landed, so she could've punished Bowser with one of her attacks.. The Shiek player used an up tilt instead of something like her ftilt, so Bowser wasn't punished at all.
 

warionumbah2

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Sonic was solid on this game although the player kept on running into Bowser bombs. Overall this surpass my expectations(which is why i keep it low so the game can wow me).

Off topic: Guys i need your advice, should i get this in October or the new pokemon? I'm only buying one game in that month and the Wii U version is right after. TT-TT
 
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Soul.

 
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Sonic was solid on this game although the player kept on running into Bowser bombs. Overall this surpass my expectations(which is why i keep it low so the game can wow me).

Off topic: Guys i need your advice, should i get this in October or the new pokemon? I'm only buying one game in that month and the Wii U version is right after. TT-TT
Get Smash 3DS. You can get Omega Ruby or Alpha Sapphire on the eShop when they're released.
 

Yoshi Kirishima

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This may be true, but Bowser had PLENTY of lag upon landing after that airdodge. Shiek had little to no lag when she landed, so she could've punished Bowser with one of her attacks.. The Shiek player used an up tilt instead of something like her ftilt, so Bowser wasn't punished at all.
I think SSB4 is looking great, but that GIF was really starting to worry me for a second, but thanks for pointing that out! Faith restored in SSB4!
 

LancerStaff

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I think it's looking pretty great. The immediate balance looks pretty nice for SSB standards, we've seen more of some potentially tournament viable stages and they're looking good, we've seen that playing on a 3DS works out, and finally that the offense to defense ratio isn't completely borked this time around.
 

PingPongCop

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My opinion of the game was already and still is : "3DS VERSION ALL THE WAY!!!"

Tournaments will be so much fun! Just imagine, lounging on a couch with random strangers or friends, playing Smash Run or practicing while waiting for the next match!

In fact, it doesn't even have to be in person! Online tournaments will be wicked! Chat Rooms and streams, people requesting matches and Smash Runs, Skyping each other while playing... It just feels so right.

I have a feeling the 3DS version will be the one to bring everyone together.

(PS: Does anyone think there will be a voice chat option while playing With Friends? I do!)
 

Soul.

 
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My opinion of the game was already and still is : "3DS VERSION ALL THE WAY!!!"

Tournaments will be so much fun! Just imagine, lounging on a couch with random strangers or friends, playing Smash Run or practicing while waiting for the next match!

In fact, it doesn't even have to be in person! Online tournaments will be wicked! Chat Rooms and streams, people requesting matches and Smash Runs, Skyping each other while playing... It just feels so right.

I have a feeling the 3DS version will be the one to bring everyone together.

(PS: Does anyone think there will be a voice chat option while playing With Friends? I do!)
Online tournaments will be the main thing for the 3DS version. Like you were saying, chat rooms and all the other stuff will be used a lot.
It will bring everyone together eventually. It's just a matter of time. The 3DS has a larger install base, so doing that won't be such a problem.
 
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RPGatWill

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Online tournaments will be the main thing for the 3DS version. Like you were saying, chat rooms and all the other stuff will be used a lot.
It will bring everyone together eventually. It's just a matter of time. The 3DS has a larger install base, so doing that won't be such a problem.
While the Wii U will probably still be best for event tournaments at cons and the like, maybe the 3DS will open up the market for online tournaments throughout the year? I mean, it'd be pretty cool to have a 3DS tournament once a month or something, but since 3DS is internet based you could just take your time. a couple matches from the tournament a day or something, you know. At least it'll be easily accessible to everyone.
 

Soul.

 
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While the Wii U will probably still be best for event tournaments at cons and the like, maybe the 3DS will open up the market for online tournaments throughout the year? I mean, it'd be pretty cool to have a 3DS tournament once a month or something, but since 3DS is internet based you could just take your time. a couple matches from the tournament a day or something, you know. At least it'll be easily accessible to everyone.
Maybe. I think the 3DS should have as many tournaments as possible. It doesn't matter in which way they are (local or online), they're still tournaments and will most likely be fun to watch because of the nerfs to defensive gameplay.
 

PingPongCop

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While the Wii U will probably still be best for event tournaments at cons and the like, maybe the 3DS will open up the market for online tournaments throughout the year? I mean, it'd be pretty cool to have a 3DS tournament once a month or something, but since 3DS is internet based you could just take your time. a couple matches from the tournament a day or something, you know. At least it'll be easily accessible to everyone.
smash3dsa.enjin.com

Check it out :)
 
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