Bowser Stage Discussion: Counterpicking, Banning, and All That Jazz

[Tmacc]

This is where we will talking about everything involving selection of which stages to play Bowser on, and which stages to ideally avoid. This involves striking stages, counterpicking, and banning.

However, it's a lot deeper than that.

Let's talk about WHY Bowser is good on a stage, or bad on a stage, or why a specific match-up shouldn't be played here or there. This will help us expand our knowledge and think more critically about the stages, rather than just saying "Yoshi's Island Melee or Metal Cavern, then say gg yo."

Annnnnnnnnd go!

 

[Shadow Huan]

i'll start it off i guess...

IMO

SSE: Jungle is a really bad stage for bowser, too much space for most of the characters to run away and take advantage of the fact you're slow, even if you can control space really well

i've personally had bad luck on Pictochat, i think it has to do with the drawings messing up setups and combos/punishes, the stage is big but not overly big.

i like Halberd a lot, the floating platform sections make edgeguarding a breeze

 

[Chaos_Blasta]

My favorite stages for bowser are, like..

YS
WW
DL64
BF
SSE Jungle
Metal Cavern

But of course it depends heavily on the char you are facing, even the opponent. Generally though, i tend to avoid FD or smashville, due to the lack of platforms that you can use to mobilize yourself properly, and to use for followups if you get your opponent into one of them.

I also hate Skyloft, FoD, Halberd and Kongo Jungle, because they either impact bowser negatively with their layout or i just have a personal dislike for them.

Oh, and of course i wouldn't mind discussing a certain stage in specific in case that's requested

 

[AncientPancakes]

What do you guys think of picking warioware against bowser's bad matchups? Right now i'm feeling like small stages benefit him more especially against link.

 

[Chaos_Blasta]

It depends, what do you think are his bad MUs?

I personally prefer WW or YS immensely when i am dealing with spacies or other huge characters like DDD or DK. The very small space lets you get gimps and KOs rather easily, and getting huge combos is easy vs big characters if you make proper use of the platforms to tech chase correctly and stuff.

 

[AncientPancakes]

Please correct me if i'm wrong, but i'm thinking (based on personal experience and forum discussion) that his worst matchups would include the falcon, the space animals, sonic, both links, and Sheik. Idk maybe more, but my MU knowledge is pretty limited. I feel most comfortable on YS and WW definitely. Metal cavern is nice too.

But would I be doing myself a disservice by picking a small stage against any of the characters I mentioned?

 

[Overswarm]

From my experience. This is done from the perspective of someone counterpicking you or you counterpicking someone else. If the stage could potentially be bad for Bowser due to a counterpick, I put it as red. If it was likely to be good for Bowser and a good choice for my counterpick, I made it yellow. Those that could easily swing either way or had no major impact I left blank.

 

[Gimpyfish62]

i have so many thoughts that i will share in this topic

definitely do not agree with dreamland always being a counterpick, nor do i agree that fd smashville and the two stadiums have no major impact

but there are things that need to be discussed.

also woah i have a back roomer banner

neat.

 

[AncientPancakes]

I feel pretty limited playing on FD personally. That lack of platforms really makes a difference

 

[Gimpyfish62]

fd is one of the worst stages in smash and is DEFINITELY bowser's worst stage vs anyone with mobility

 

[Overswarm]

I like FD in some matchups that don't involve me getting grabbed. I also really, really like Bowser's grab combos. So FD isn't as bad as it was in the past for me at least.

 

[leelue]

fd is one of the worst stages in smash

I wish I could like this post a thousand ****ing times.

 

[Pluplue]

so bowsers pri op amirite

 

[Overswarm]

so bowsers pri op amirite

He's not OP, but a few things I've noticed have been stronger than I would have imagined:

fair hits easily above and below where bowser's claw is, making it incredibly easy to space and hit someone. I like it and all, but it is easy.

get up attack under 100% can be an auto edgeguard against some characters, which isn't necessarily stronger than other edgeguarding attempts but is so easy it's near impossible to mess up. This means that if Captain Falcon gets below the stage and gets hit by the getup attack, he dies. Marth or Sheik could kill him in the same situation too, they'd just have to time things and work a bit harder than Bowser. I could see knockback scaled down, or the direction it hits you more influenced by DI, or the direction it hits you more determined by when it hits you so that the initial part of the attack doesn't hit you down and out as it does. I dunno.

The fire not running out and being super hard to punish from in front is kinda silly too. I'm pretty good at SDI but it has rarely been worth it to SDI through to hit Bowser out of the flame, generally better to just wait or move around which creates some funny stalemates. You see this a lot in Kirk games.

 

[Youngster Joey]

why are these threads so inactive? :O and i personally feel that fountain is really good for him. also yoshis story (whatever the melee one is), wario ware, and green hill zone are all good for him. these are basically small stages where the opponent cant get away. and with small blast zones they die so much earlier and it seems that bowser is still somewhat difficult to kill. my wins on these stages are much less close than others. someone who normally beats my i usually 2 stock or something on these stages. i recommend these.

for some reason i also tend to do alright on pits skyworld but not the zeldas skyworld.

as for what to avoid i think i need advice on that. i dont really like that SSE place too much. fd is good and bad. i guess like you guys said i dont see many benefits to FD.

 

[Ace55]

FD is autoban, YS is his best stage hands down, BF is my favorite starter after YS, DL64 is decent, not wild about SV or PS1/2. I have a strong dislike for FoD but it's a good Bowser stage. WW isn't as good as I thought it would be, Metal Cavern is awesome. The flying part of Halberd is good, the landing part sucks. Castle Siege is similar to Halberd (Good/Bad). DCastle, Norfair, Skyloft and Rumble Falls are pretty terrible. Yoshi's Island, GHZ and Skyworld are pretty good.

My take on things. Did I miss anything ?

 

[traffic.]

WW's platforms make me so happy, JC down-b WL fair off the top platform is TOO GOOD. Otherwise, standard responses. Yoshi's, FoD, WW, MC. anything with a small platform or close blastzones makes for some pretty brutal matches.

PS2's ceiling counteracts a lot of the horizontal space, since they can't very well get above you safely without risking an easy uair kill, it's not difficult to close off 70% of the map from your opponent and stick to the edgeguard game. Plus the platforms being close to the ledges makes them equally functional for bowser, as well as puts him in a very solid position to cover the entire vertical plane.

 

[| Kailex |]

What i think fits bowser is fighting on small stages, that is all

 

[Chaos_Blasta]

Randall is a ******* ****-******* *****. It's the only reason i hate YS so much that i'm actually glad always ban it for me.

 

[choknater]

yeah honestly any small stage is great for me

 

[Crazy Ivan 505]

How PS 2 or Picto?

 

[Chaos_Blasta]

I think Picto is not legal.

PS2 is okay, i guess. Low ceiling makes for early kills with vertical-trajectory moves, but recovery options are very limited there.