Bowser SSB4 Moves Breakdown [3DS]

[Zekersaurus]

Bowser's supposed to be a tank so I think it's only appropriate that he's not bullied by projectiles and weaker attacks. He should have a few non -flinch frames or times where he is completely invincible. There was a little bit of that in Brawl if I'm not mistaken, but I think Project M did it right. Bowser, took no flinch from projectiles while crawling (which was probably due to crouch canceling but can still translate over to SSB4 as just a separate mechanic for him.) and during his whirling fortress (which makes sense, Keyword "fortress").

These are just a few examples but I'm sure this can be expanded on more.

Discuss.

Edit: Update

We had said for a while that heavyweights need some sort of flinch resistance at lower percentages, and now this was a tip in the NA demo released recently:

I wonder if DK/D3 get it too...

 

[Neanderthal]

Totally agree.
I think hit-stun immunity frames is the only way to balance heavyweights for competitive play without unbalancing casual play.
Hopefully Ganondorf gets in on it too this time if he's still slow.

 

[_R@bid_]

If anyone in this game deserves armor, it's Bowser. His very archetype is to be a tank, after all.

 

[EverythingSmash]

I'd like some armor for DK as well. Besides just with the punch. DK's hated projectiles since N64.

 

[MatthewSwain9]

But wouldnt this be unfair? Total immunity is a bit too much maybe like a micro flinch or something

 

[Zekersaurus]

quote="MatthewSwain9, post: 15606981, member: 220952"]But wouldnt this be unfair? Total immunity is a bit too much maybe like a micro flinch or something[/quote]
Not if it's only for a split second, and there are characters that already have this. Kirby’s downB, Yoshi's 2nd jump, DK's Neutral B, etc.

 

[Homelessvagrant]

I sure hope so, if there's anything I learned from playing brawl minus, playing an opponent with super armor is beaten only by beating an opponent who has super armor. It's just a completely different battle experience completely and it forces you to change your battle strategy up. Of course the way that Bowser was armored up in Brawl minus was ridiculous but I would imagine battling a sedated version of that to be a blast.

 

[PhlipDarkRiot]

I think the crawling through small projectiles that Bowser had in P:M was fantastic. Wasn't too broken since he couldn't crawl very fast, but it looked right and made camping a lot less annoying.

 

[_R@bid_]

Super Armor: FSmash, Up B startup
Heavy KB Armor: Rest of Up B, Down B, DSmash,USmash, UThrow, DThrow, Nair, Dair, Shell end of Bair
Light Damage Armor: Crouch, Crawl, Dash Attack
Does that sound good for armor, or is it too much?

Reposting from general Bowser thread before the E3 reveal.

 

[Zekersaurus]

Reposting from general Bowser thread before the E3 reveal.

No. Most of it fits, but now that his dash attack is that kick it wouldn't make sense for it to have armor.

 

[_R@bid_]

Shoot, forgot about the new moves.
New version:
Super Armor: Up B Startup
Heavy KB Armor: Rest of Up B, Down B, USmash, DSmash, UThrow, DThrow, Dair, Shell end of Bair
Damage Armor: Crouch, Crawl

 

[Toxicroaker]

I say whirling fortress should reflect small projectiles

 

[_R@bid_]

I say whirling fortress should reflect small projectiles

How exactly would you define small projectiles? Would it reflect anything that doesn't break its armor, or would it use some other system?

 

[Toxicroaker]

How exactly would you define small projectiles? Would it reflect anything that doesn't break its armor, or would it use some other system?

[collapse=the list of moves that can be reflected]
Diddy Kong: Peanut Popgun
Falco: Blaster
Fox: Blaster
Ice Climbers: Ice Shot
King Dedede: Super Dedede Jump (stars produced on the landing)
Kirby: Final Cutter (shock wave produced at the end)
Link: Boomerang, Hero's Bow
Lucas: PK Fire
Lucario: Aura Sphere (uncharged)
Luigi: Fireball
Mario: Fireball
Mr. Game & Watch: Chef
Ness: PK Fire
Olimar: Pikmin Throw
Pikachu: Thunder Jolt
Pit: Paulenta's Arrow
Pokemon Trainer (Charizard): Rock Smash (fragments produced)
Pokemon Trainer (Ivysaur): Razor Leaf
R.O.B.: Gyro
Samus: Charge Shot (uncharged)
Sheik: Needle Storm
Snake: Hand Grenade
Toon Link: Bow, Boomerang
Wolf: Blaster
Yoshi: Egg Toss, Yoshi Bomb (stars produced after landing)
Zero Suit Samus: Paralyzer

 

[LaniusShrike]

I say whirling fortress should reflect small projectiles

Awesome. I mean, the move's called fortress, it deserves something a little more defensive about it. Also, it'd be the only recovery special that does that... nice and unique.

I don't think it'd be too hard to define "small projectile" for the programmers- if projectile's damage % <= 7, reflect projectile.

I'd also be fine if it merely deflected the projectiles harmlessly upwards, kind of like what happens when Mega Man shoots something invincible.

 

[extremechiton]

or depending on the angle. since bowsers shell is rounded somewhat, if the projectile doesnt hit dead on, like say from a short hop, the projectile will bounce off at a more upward angle, kinda like what happens when a projectile hits your shield at a certain angle.

 

[S_B]

Yes, yes, a hundred, bajillion times, YES!

When I first heard about the existence of super armor in Brawl, my very first thought was "THIS WILL SAVE BOWSER!"

Lo and friggin' behold, Brawl Bowser didn't have even a single frame of super armor.

More than anything, Bowser's Down+B need, need, NEEDS to have super armor. When Bowser does the butt stomp, NOTHING should be able to stop him until he hits the ground.

 

[Tepig2000]

It looks like Bowser has some armor now, at least when he is hit in his shell.

 

[Sobreviviente]

I hate how bowser is looking in this game, but is nice to see his shell finally doing something.

 

[Altais]

View attachment 4745

It looks like Bowser has some armor now, at least when he is hit in his shell.

Hmm, that is pretty cool. I wonder if his shell will provide the same defense whilst he is standing erect.

 

[Tepig2000]

Hmm, that is pretty cool. I wonder if his shell will provide the same defense whilst he is standing erect.

I hope so.

 

[Forcerounds]

Super Armor + measures against projectiles is one of the reasons I love using Iron Tager in Blazblue. If Bowser has them too, I'll definitely be a Bowser user.

 

[Tepig2000]

Super Armor + measures against projectiles is one of the reasons I love using Iron Tager in Blazblue. If Bowser has them too, I'll definitely be a Bowser user.

To me, Bowser is the second worst character in Brawl. The only one who manages to be worse is Ganondorf. If he has armor I might think of playing as him. However, my main will probably continue being Toon Link.

 

[Master Of Blades]

View attachment 4745

It looks like Bowser has some armor now, at least when he is hit in his shell.

I think that just the beginning of his Up smash, it always had armor frames then.

 

[Pazzo.]

Hmm, that is pretty cool. I wonder if his shell will provide the same defense whilst he is standing erect.

That would be interesting... I'll have to keep that in mind while viewing any trailers or pictures of the game. Maybe we can find another example.

 

[S_B]

View attachment 4745

It looks like Bowser has some armor now, at least when he is hit in his shell.

Not to be a party pooper, but I'm not sure that that screen proves anything.

Sakurai is notorious for posting screenshots that have no correlation to actual gameplay.

To me, that screen says less that Bowser's shell provides armor and more that Sakurai said "HAY GUYZ! LET'S TAKE A SCREEN THAT MAKES IT LOOK LIKE SONIC IS BOUNCING OFF BOWSER'S SHELL!"

 

[Big-Cat]

Totally agree.
I think hit-stun immunity frames is the only way to balance heavyweights for competitive play without unbalancing casual play.
Hopefully Ganondorf gets in on it too this time if he's still slow.

I know I'm responding to a nearly six month old post, but I gotta respond.

Super armor as a means of balancing like this is NOT the way to go. The problem with heavy weights in Smash is that they are not nearly as solid as they should be. Having things like some slightly faster attacks, a reliable jab, and the ability to outzone a lot of opponents with range along with adjusting the priority range are key things that need to be addressed. The Smash series has notoriously been biased to characters that are fast in movement and/or attack speed while defensive mechanics have left much to be desired.

Smash is not so unique that it cannot look at the big characters like Zangief, Potemkin, Daimon, and King to see how big guys like them can be viable in a fighting game.

 

[KoRLumen]

I know I'm responding to a nearly six month old post, but I gotta respond.

Super armor as a means of balancing like this is NOT the way to go. The problem with heavy weights in Smash is that they are not nearly as solid as they should be. Having things like some slightly faster attacks, a reliable jab, and the ability to outzone a lot of opponents with range along with adjusting the priority range are key things that need to be addressed. The Smash series has notoriously been biased to characters that are fast in movement and/or attack speed while defensive mechanics have left much to be desired.

Smash is not so unique that it cannot look at the big characters like Zangief, Potemkin, Daimon, and King to see how big guys like them can be viable in a fighting game.

It's a good thing that Namco Bandai is helping out, then :D

 

[Superyoshiom]

[collapse=the list of moves that can be reflected]
Diddy Kong: Peanut Popgun
Falco: Blaster
Fox: Blaster
Ice Climbers: Ice Shot
King Dedede: Super Dedede Jump (stars produced on the landing)
Kirby: Final Cutter (shock wave produced at the end)
Link: Boomerang, Hero's Bow
Lucas: PK Fire
Lucario: Aura Sphere (uncharged)
Luigi: Fireball
Mario: Fireball
Mr. Game & Watch: Chef
Ness: PK Fire
Olimar: Pikmin Throw
Pikachu: Thunder Jolt
Pit: Paulenta's Arrow
Pokemon Trainer (Charizard): Rock Smash (fragments produced)
Pokemon Trainer (Ivysaur): Razor Leaf
R.O.B.: Gyro
Samus: Charge Shot (uncharged)
Sheik: Needle Storm
Snake: Hand Grenade
Toon Link: Bow, Boomerang
Wolf: Blaster
Yoshi: Egg Toss, Yoshi Bomb (stars produced after landing)
Zero Suit Samus: Paralyzer

Spoiler

Not theYoshi bomb! My only strategy with Yoshi is to spam that attack!

 

[S_B]

I know I'm responding to a nearly six month old post, but I gotta respond.

Super armor as a means of balancing like this is NOT the way to go. The problem with heavy weights in Smash is that they are not nearly as solid as they should be. Having things like some slightly faster attacks, a reliable jab, and the ability to outzone a lot of opponents with range along with adjusting the priority range are key things that need to be addressed. The Smash series has notoriously been biased to characters that are fast in movement and/or attack speed while defensive mechanics have left much to be desired.

Smash is not so unique that it cannot look at the big characters like Zangief, Potemkin, Daimon, and King to see how big guys like them can be viable in a fighting game.

Spacing options are also key for heavyweights, and Bowser could stand to have some disjointed hitboxes to keep him from getting ravaged by characters that DO.

 

[UltimateWario]

View attachment 4745

It seems a bit silly that Sonic can ram himself at incredible speed into Bowser's spike-covered, rock-hard shell and Bowser is the one who takes damage. Nice that this may be rectified.

I hate how bowser is looking in this game, but is nice to see his shell finally doing something.

Might I theorize that you might be a fan of Godzilla, rather than Bowser? Because this is the first time Bowser actually looks and acts like Bowser.

 

[S_B]

It seems a bit silly that Sonic can ram himself at incredible speed into Bowser's spike-covered shell and Bowser is the one who takes damage. Nice that this may be rectified.



Might I theorize that you might be a fan of Godzilla, rather than Bowser? Because this is the first time Bowser actually looks and acts like Bowser.

Again, the screenshot proves nothing.

Sakurai is NOTORIOUS for posting screenshots that have no relevance to gameplay.

Otherwise, we could deduce that SSB4 includes a minigame where Luigi entertains a pikmin sitting on a tree stump.

 

[UltimateWario]

Again, the screenshot proves nothing.

Sakurai is NOTORIOUS for posting screenshots that have no relevance to gameplay.

That's why I said "MAY be rectified".

 

[S_B]

That's why I said "MAY be rectified".

Ah, gotcha.

I'm sure Sakurai is just trying to be cute in these screenshots, but he ultimately winds up being more of a troll.

 

[Superyoshiom]

What about that picture with Sonic hitting Bowser's shell? Do you think characters will take damage from hitting the shell?

 

[Sobreviviente]

Might I theorize that you might be a fan of Godzilla, rather than Bowser? Because this is the first time Bowser actually looks and acts like Bowser.

Godzilla sucks, Gamera FTW

And no, bowser always looked like bowser, is just that he is more iconic than ever and a lot of new stuff had been added to the carácter, so, a change was needed and is great they did, but that doesnt mean i like it, in melee he was the bomb >;P

 

[S_B]

What about that picture with Sonic hitting Bowser's shell? Do you think characters will take damage from hitting the shell?

We can't say for certain (it'd be awesome if they did) but the only thing I DO know is that the screenshots don't mean anything.

Like I said, Sakurai is more interested in taking screens that look funny than screens that accurately represent game mechanics.

 

[S_B]

Awesome. I mean, the move's called fortress, it deserves something a little more defensive about it. Also, it'd be the only recovery special that does that... nice and unique.

I don't think it'd be too hard to define "small projectile" for the programmers- if projectile's damage % <= 7, reflect projectile.

I'd also be fine if it merely deflected the projectiles harmlessly upwards, kind of like what happens when Mega Man shoots something invincible.

Bowser being able to reflect projectiles back at the attacker would actually be something that could ensure he doesn't get projectile camped (or at least not as badly).

It would be amazing if they gave this to Bowser, and it might also make him unique in that his recovery would deflect projectiles.

 

[oxyborb]

In the Little Mac video, when Mega Man shoots Bowser in the back... is that a splash effect against his shell? He still takes damage, but do you think damage is lessened at all?

 

[SkaRiot]

In the Little Mac video, when Mega Man shoots Bowser in the back... is that a splash effect against his shell? He still takes damage, but do you think damage is lessened at all?

That splash effect happened on Mario in the analysis video, so there's not any damage decrease or armor when Megaman shot Bowser.