BOWSER IS SO OVERPOWERED!!!

[deadjames]

Essentially I think the developers kinda turned Bowser into the new Meta Knight.

Talk to me when Bowser is nearly impossible to gimp, has a move with transcendent priority, and all of his other moves are lightning fast with disjointed hit boxes.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

Having transcendent priority is hardly what made metaknight op. I'm not sure you know what that means, but it's pretty inconsequential where metaknight's op-ness is concerned.

 

[deadjames]

Having transcendent priority is hardly what made metaknight op. I'm not sure you know what that means, but it's pretty inconsequential where metaknight's op-ness is concerned.

I know why Meta Knight is OP, and nado isn't the only thing but it's definitely a contributing factor, and I do know what it means, it means that every other move in the game either loses to it, or clanks with it, although there are a few moves that can straight up beat it like Falco's lasers and Luigi's usmash among other things.

 

[GeZ]

Guys, don't use the phrase transcendent priority. It's a misnomer people use when they don't understand how hitboxes or priority works. MK was a character with incredible disjoint, withdrawn hurtboxes, and great priority. But their is no "transcendent priority" property, nor anything that resembles it.

 

[cmart]

What people normally refer to with transcendent priority is a hitbox that cannot clank (Falco Lasers, MK sword attacks). On top of that, MK's hitboxes are coded differently than everyone else's, so he needs this property or his moves will not work properly. While the term itself may be a misnomer, it is a convenient way to refer to a tangible hitbox priority, and in MK's case, appropriate since his hitboxes are legit different anyway.

 

[GeZ]

It's not just really solid sword hitbox? I know there's different hitboxes for weapons, but his hitboxes were different?

 

[#HBC | Joker]

I know why Meta Knight is OP, and nado isn't the only thing but it's definitely a contributing factor, and I do know what it means, it means that every other move in the game either loses to it, or clanks with it, although there are a few moves that can straight up beat it like Falco's lasers and Luigi's usmash among other things.

That's not what it means.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCpxfUlkWwI

 

[cmart]

Yes, MK has both the "no clank" bit set (odd for physical attacks), and his hitboxes are unique in that they do not properly function unless that bit is set.

 

[Mew2King]

Bowser is my favorite character in PM cuz of range/gimping and feeling awesome when I hit people with strong moves or read their shield with koopa klaw, but he's definitely not OP. I beat DJ Nintendo's Bowser by JV 4 stock with Sheik (who I think is not a very good character in PM compared to melee at ALL) after he beat me in a bowser ditto (granted this was one of the first times I ever used bowser but still), and this was 2.5 bowser I believe.

Match 1 (bowser ditto, although one of my first times ever using bowser ever for me and DJ) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paR6R4nB_Nc#t=1m59s

Match 2, JV 4 stock my sheik vs his bowser - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kN3CAiCBGc#t=3m28s



Bowser has a huge weakness in that he cannot deal with camping or spaced ranged attacks on him

honestly I am hoping they upgrade him back to his 2.5 self some time. 2.6 he was nerfed too much.



You REALLY need to NOT use computers or low level play as the basis for judging characters.

 

[Deleted member]

Sheik (who I think is not a very good character in PM compared to melee at ALL)

it's downthrow isn't it.

sheik is bonkers. probably the best in the game (maybe fox). play around with her more, she's incredible.

 

[Mew2King]

That's a bunch of bull****. Puff is better than Sheik overall cuz she's already slightly better than sheik in melee but she is also unchanged where as sheik has no more guaranteed down throw options making her worse. spacies are better too but lasers were nerfed now making their camping worse and shine is no longer invincible making their shinespike less deadly and 1 frame easier to Nair OOS if I decide to Nair before the shine instead of after it.

the ONLY reason I play sheik in PM is because ALL of my Melee skill transfers because she's basically the same, just worse.

 

[GeZ]

That's a bunch of bull****. Puff is better than Sheik overall cuz she's already slightly better than sheik in melee but she is also unchanged where as sheik has no more guaranteed down throw options making her worse. spacies are better too but lasers were nerfed now making their camping worse and shine is no longer invincible making their shinespike less deadly and 1 frame easier to Nair OOS if I decide to Nair before the shine instead of after it.

the ONLY reason I play sheik in PM is because ALL of my Melee skill transfers because she's basically the same, just worse.

I was going to say something to the contrary but jesus christ it's M2K. I'll take your word for it, and marvel from afar.

 

[deadjames]

Wait, I just realized size is one of the options to vote for? How could you think Bowser's size makes him OP? Being big is generally a bad thing in Smash, it makes you an easy target.

 

[GeZ]

Wait, I just realized size is one of the options to vote for? How could you think Bowser's size makes him OP? Being big is generally a bad thing in Smash, it makes you an easy target.

There's nothing to argue about. Whoever posted this thread has very little understanding of this game.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

I clicked all the options because boogaloopers. All the %s went up, and they add up to 137% or something. I don't think that poll is very smart.

 

[Fortress]

I cannot consistently beat Bowser at level 8 or 9 with ANY character.

Played against a level nine as Mario, it went down like this:

Dashing A > (turn around) Dashing A > (turn around) Dashing A > U-Tilt > U-Tilt > U-Tilt > U-Tilt > Short-hopped D-Air > Short-hopped N-Air > Money

Tried to take the dude on with Link, here's how King Koopa ended up:

Dashing A > U-Tilt > Short-hopped B-Air > (turn around) Boomerang thrown low > Short-hopped F-Air

And with Ike:

Back Throw > Back Throw > Back Throw > Back Throw > Back Throw > Back Throw > Sakurai cries in his sleep

Don't even start me on how Weegee handled it. But, in all seriousness, my roommate mains Bowser, has his chasing and Down-Special cancelling figured out, and I find that Bowser, while much faster, stronger, and effective overall, can still be combo'd properly, just how he used to be. Which is fine.

 

[Xenozoa425]

CPUs are incredibly predictable and easy to space/bait/punish, and they can barely tech after hitstun 90% of the time even at Lv9, making followups and extending combos that much easier. Bowser's size and weight is a blessing for combo oriented characters like Lucas and Lucario, and gets camped and dash-dance camped just as easily. If you can't beat a CPU Bowser, either you don't know both Bowser and your character(s) as well as you think, or you're just not very good.

 

[Fortress]

If you can't beat a CPU Bowser, either you don't know both Bowser and your character(s) as well as you think, or you're just not very good.

Basically this in regards to CPU players. Level nine Ganondorf is a turd.

 

[Viceversa96]

Bowser is a terrible character. Seriously he's absolute **** and will always be bottom tier. If you lose to him it's because you're running into his hits.

 

[GeZ]

I wouldn't go that far. He's pretty solid in P:M, he just has trouble with certain matchups. The OP is still wrong, but saying he's garbage is drastic at best.

 

[Xenozoa425]

A good Bowser can wreck some serious s*** if you're not careful.

A lot of people are still under the impression that you can just walk up to him and 0-death him like in Melee and Brawl, but they end up eating Up B's everywhere.

 

[\Apples]

You guys wanna know how to beat Bowser? It's really simple: keep grabbing him. Then just punish him in the neutral game if you have to in order to take the stock. His neutral game is god awful and that's his biggest problem.

The option that OP's poll is missing is "Options".

 

[deadjames]

You guys wanna know how to beat Bowser? It's really simple: keep grabbing him. Then just punish him in the neutral game if you have to in order to take the stock. His neutral game is god awful and that's his biggest problem.

The option that OP's poll is missing is "Options".

I agree with the grabbing, but Bowser's neutral game is pretty solid imo.

 

[\Apples]

Explain yourself, I've gotta hear this.

 

[GeZ]

I feel like he does better leaning on the opponent rather than being leaned on. I haven't played him much lately but from my experience with him I thought his neutral and defensive game were poor to make up for his Koopa Kickassery when he's applying regal blasts of dragon turtle offense. He's more imposing when his roars ring true, rather than being cut short by boots to the face and fists to the shell.

 

[Nausicaa]

Hit him in the face with spaced attacks until he can't do anything but shield and can't act out of his shield without being hit?

 

[himemiya]

"Dear pmbr, I get my ass handed by an cpu bowser please nerf him kthxbai!"

Why are you training with lvl9 cpu's anyway? If you don't have smash competitive friends then try online and if you don't have internet then play with lvl1-3 cpus since they're better to practice with anyways.

 

[Viceversa96]

Hit him in the face with spaced attacks until he can't do anything but shield and can't act out of his shield without being hit?

That's why he's a piece of ****. Just bait his attacks and grab him. Bait up b Oos or forward b and be aware of his armor and you will win. If you lose to Bowser it's because you're playing bad.

 

[JayMan-X]

That's why he's a piece of ****. Just bait his attacks and grab him. Bait up b Oos or forward b and be aware of his armor and you will win. If you lose to Bowser it's because you're playing bad.

or you dont know these things (ie Matchup knowledge)

 

[Viceversa96]

or you dont know these things (ie Matchup knowledge)

That's what we're here for to help.

 

[\Apples]

You don't bait Up+B OOS. You just grab his shield. Defense is all this character truly has against smart players, and even then... doesn't quite cut it. He's fundamentally flawed in my eyes. Would benefit from more applicable super armor IMO. About the only thing he has going for himself is his crawl armor, which is actually kinda tight.

Like he kinda does alright against spacies cause of it but not actually. As much as I hate to admit it I think he's mostly just gimmicks.

 

[Xenozoa425]

He is literally a walking gimmick. But he's fun to use, and more so to win with against casuals and competitive players.

 

[Chaos_Blasta]

@M2K: 2.6 Bowser was definitively improved since 2.5, although light armors on some things are definitively missed. Gaining things like a much better grab range, lower endlag on certain attacks and slight buffs on down b and uthrow really help him out.

 

[Archangel]

I think Bowser is alot better some people think. Slightly worse than some people believe as well.

He's a walking gimmick that is true, The challenge for beating a bowser is the same challenge for beating alot of characters.

In the pre-armada era of peach it was thought that peach was super gimmicky. All she does is Dash attack and Dsmash and if you can avoid or bait those moves then she sucks. Jigglypuff's long before Hbox's time were spamming the Bair's and they Bair(ly) did anything else. Still, these gimmicky characters have proven how good they actually are. Some of them still building off the same old tricks from 05. I wouldn't be shocked if Bowser followed a similar path. In which case the "this is broken crowd ends up looking correct.

 

[Xenozoa425]

There will always be "those" people that mindlessly try to Zerg rush Bowser and eat Up B's OoS for breakfast, then complain about how OP or broken he is.

 

[Fortress]

There will always be "those" people that mindlessly try to Zerg rush Bowser and eat Up B's OoS for breakfast, then complain about how OP or broken he is.

When in actuality, it's hard to play Bowser well and effectively. You can swing around his big ol' fists all day and end up lucking out and getting the big hits in, but for the kind of play we saw at the Big House finals, Bowser beating out Mario in the end? That's a tough thing to do, I imagine.

 

[JUGGERNAUT043]

Bowser is a very big character buffed up to be a worth adversary

while ganon is a very shrunk character with little buffs to be but a raised eyebrow amongst the heavies lol

 

[JUGGERNAUT043]

If you can't beat a cpu opponent then please don't tell people that you're good at the game. Bowser is so far from OP it's ridiculous. Also calling tournament play "stupid" just kinda tells us where you're at as far as skill level. Not rude by any means, just saiyan.

see why cant i find ppl like you to talk to in the ganondorf forms lol

 

[Phaiyte]

see why cant i find ppl like you to talk to in the ganondorf forms lol

I main ganon.

 

[JUGGERNAUT043]

I main ganon.

yet I never see u that often :? why not make some of ur own threads id love to hear another mains perspective on current things