Borderline and Below Team

[Demenise]

First off, I hate how (just about) everybody's team consists of a Blissey, a Skarmory, a Gengar, a Porygon Z, etc. Sure, I like the Pokemon in Overused, but I've always hated being overpowered like that. So, I want to make a Borderline and below team. So far, I've been looking at many different options, and here are some Pokemon that I think that I should put on my team.

Drapion
Gardevoir
Kangaskhan
Miltank
Ninetails
Pinsir
Scizor
Banette
Cacturne
Crawdaunt
Electrode
Kingler
Mantine
Muk
Octillery
Primeape
Sandslash
Seviper
Victreebel
Vileplume
Dewgong
Mawile
Stanler
Wigglytuff
Clefable
Politoed
Poliwrath
Lunatone
Probopass
Granbull
Zangoose

I know, it's a lot, right? Now, here are my questions:

1) Which Pokemon are powerful enough to be on my team? I want a Wall, a Physical Sweeper, a Spiker or a Sweeper/Wall with Spikes, and a Cleric. That's my minimum.

2) Are there any other Borderline and below Pokemon out there that are powerful enough for competitive play?

3) Is Zangoose actually a BL or below Pokemon? I thought it was, but some tier lists say that its OU.

Thanks, guys.

And by the way, for question 1, you can list more than 6 Pokemon. I just want to eliminate some.

 

[O D I N]

Gengar is only on my team cause I like him. >.>

I'm not that helpful in the team building dept. But I've heard Gardevior is decent. Special sweeper, perhaps?

Don't listen to me though.

 

[Wii4Mii 99]

First off, I hate how (just about) everybody's team consists of a Blissey, a Skarmory, a Gengar, a Porygon Z, etc. Sure, I like the Pokemon in Overused, but I've always hated being overpowered like that. So, I want to make a Borderline and below team. So far, I've been looking at many different options, and here are some Pokemon that I think that I should put on my team.

Drapion
Gardevoir
Kangaskhan
Miltank
Ninetails
Pinsir
Scizor
Banette
Cacturne
Crawdaunt
Electrode
Kingler
Mantine
Muk
Octillery
Primeape
Sandslash
Seviper
Victreebel
Vileplume
Dewgong
Mawile
Stanler
Wigglytuff
Clefable
Politoed
Poliwrath
Lunatone
Probopass
Granbull
Zangoose

I know, it's a lot, right? Now, here are my questions:

1) Which Pokemon are powerful enough to be on my team? I want a Wall, a Physical Sweeper, a Spiker or a Sweeper/Wall with Spikes, and a Cleric. That's my minimum.

2) Are there any other Borderline and below Pokemon out there that are powerful enough for competitive play?

3) Is Zangoose actually a BL or below Pokemon? I thought it was, but some tier lists say that its OU.

Thanks, guys.

And by the way, for question 1, you can list more than 6 Pokemon. I just want to eliminate some.

Physical Sweepers: Zangoose, Absol, Arcanine, Swellow, Tauros, Ursaring, Zangoose.

Special Sweepers: Espeon, Gardevoir, Typhlosion.

Walls: Dusclops, Cloyster, Gardevoir, Probopass, Registeel, Regice, Regirock, Umbreon, Aggron, Bastiodon, Gastrodon, Solrock.

Cloyster can provide Spikes and also serve as a Physical wall.

Chansey could be the Cleric, as well as a Special Wall.

Until wii meet again,
Wii4Mii 99

 

[Demenise]

Alright. I'll choose Zangoose as the Physical Sweeper, Cloyster as the Physical Wall/Spiker, and maybe Probopass or Lunatone as a Wall. For a Cleric, maybe Miltank or Vileplume? They both have Heal Bell/Aromatherapy, and Miltank has Milk Drink plus some solid defenses.

More suggestions would be nice as well. Thanks.

 

[MysticKenji]

For the Special Sweepers:

Typhlosion max Sp.Atk = 348
Espeon = 394
Gardevoir = 383

Wii4Mii, you put Zangoose twice.

 

[Wii4Mii 99]

For the Special Sweepers:

Typhlosion max Sp.Atk = 348
Espeon = 394
Gardevoir = 383

Wii4Mii, you put Zangoose twice.

lol

What else do you need suggestions on, Demenise?

Oh yeah...

Choice Scarf Typhlosion Eruption FTW.

Until wii meet again,
Wii4Mii 99

 

[ss118]

We shouldn't have to make your team.

 

[Demenise]

It's not that I need someone to make it. It's the fact that I have no idea which ones to choose. I'm taking all into consideration, but it's kind of difficult to choose one Pokemon over another, especially considering the fact that most of the Pokemon that I have in mind are Physical sweepers.

Let's see... are there any other decent Special Sweepers out there besides the ones already mentioned? Also, are two walls plus a Cleric on one team too much?

 

[Wii4Mii 99]

Well, for more Special sweepers:

Roserade
Exeggutor (with Sunny Day support and Chlorophyll)
Magmortar, although it isn't that fast.
Kadabra
Haunter
Jynx

What's a Cleric? I've heard Blissey with Aromatherapy is a Cleric. Is it a Pokemon with Heal Bell/Aromatherapy?

No, your eyes arn't deceiving you. The almighty Wii4Mii is asking a question.

Until wii meet again,
Wii4Mii 99

 

[mood4food77]

it heals other pokes

what is a cleric supposed to do

blissey and milktank are clerics, vileplume can also be one...but not a good one

 

[MysticKenji]

Well, for more Special sweepers:

Roserade
Exeggutor (with Sunny Day support and Chlorophyll)
Magmortar, although it isn't that fast.
Kadabra
Haunter
Jynx

Roserade = 383
Exeggutor = 383
Magmortar = 383
Kadabra = 372
Haunter = 361
Jynx = 361

Stat-wise, Typhlosion is still in last place

Choice Scarf Typhlosion Eruption FTW.

QFT

What's a Cleric? I've heard Blissey with Aromatherapy is a Cleric. Is it a Pokemon with Heal Bell/Aromatherapy?

Clerics heal teammates and cure staus effects

No, your eyes arn't deceiving you. The almighty Wii4Mii is asking a question.

Until wii meet again,
Wii4Mii 99

LOLZ

 

[ss118]

It's not that I need someone to make it. It's the fact that I have no idea which ones to choose. I'm taking all into consideration, but it's kind of difficult to choose one Pokemon over another, especially considering the fact that most of the Pokemon that I have in mind are Physical sweepers.

Let's see... are there any other decent Special Sweepers out there besides the ones already mentioned? Also, are two walls plus a Cleric on one team too much?

Build a basis for your team, then make members to help support that basis.
For example: Roserade using spikes on a Spikes team, or some1 with sunny day on a sunny day team
stuff like that

 

[Demenise]

Alright. Right now, on my team, I have:

Zangoose (Physical Sweeper)
Cloyster (Spiker/Physical Wall)
*Probopass (Wall)
*Miltank (Cleric)
*Gardevoir (Special Sweeper)

Pokemon with a * next to their name are possible members of my team, but are not confirmed.

Questions!

1) Are two walls okay?
2) Are there better Physical Sweepers out there, or is Zangoose okay?
3) What are some other good jobs to assign to Pokemon, and which Pokemon can perform that job? (I don't want a pure Hazer/pure BPer)

 

[MysticKenji]

Your other wall should be a special wall, so Probopass may not be the best choice.

EDIT: Or not

Probopass = 436 max Sp.Def

This makes his Sp.Def higher than Umbreon's, but Probopass has more weaknesses

 

[Wii4Mii 99]

Yeah, it's OK to have two walls. I have Skarmory and Blissey on my team, both walls.

Like MysticKenji said, you need a special wall, as Cloyster is your physical wall and spiker.

Until wii meet again,
Wii4Mii 99

 

[Demenise]

Your other wall should be a special wall, so Probopass may not be the best choice.

EDIT: Or not

Probopass = 436 max Sp.Def

This makes his Sp.Def higher than Umbreon's, but Probopass has more weaknesses

I'm pretty sure that he learns Magnet Rise which gets rid of his Ground weakness. Now, to work on Fighting...

I'm pretty sure Gardevoir would work... if it really is Borderline and I actually use it.

Anyway, same questions:

1) Are there better Physical Sweepers out there, or is Zangoose okay?
2) What are some other good jobs to assign to Pokemon, and which Pokemon can perform that job? (I don't want a pure Hazer/pure BPer)
3)Is there a Special wall (non-starter and non-legendary) besides Probopass that works well and has decent Defense?

Thanks again, guys.

 

[lowradiation8989]

poliwrath isn't TOO bad (bulk up/belly drum), and electrode is the fastest non-legendary pokemon (416 max speed)

muk is a good wall/hazer, and gardevoir is exactly the same as gallade........except the attack and specatk stats are just switched around

probopass is a good pokemon to use too.............flash cannon, t-wave, block, magnet rise/iron defense

 

[MysticKenji]

1) Are there better Physical Sweepers out there, or is Zangoose okay?
2) What are some other good jobs to assign to Pokemon, and which Pokemon can perform that job? (I don't want a pure Hazer/pure BPer)
3)Is there a Special wall (non-starter and non-legendary) besides Probopass that works well and has decent Defense?

Thanks again, guys.

1. Zangoose has 361 max Attack. Absol and Ursaring have higher max. Attacks and Absol learns Psycho Cut which counters Fighting types.

3. Dusclops and Umbreon work well. Gastrodon, Bastiodon and Solrock could also work.

 

[Wii4Mii 99]

I'm pretty sure that he learns Magnet Rise which gets rid of his Ground weakness. Now, to work on Fighting...

I'm pretty sure Gardevoir would work... if it really is Borderline and I actually use it.

Anyway, same questions:

1) Are there better Physical Sweepers out there, or is Zangoose okay?
2) What are some other good jobs to assign to Pokemon, and which Pokemon can perform that job? (I don't want a pure Hazer/pure BPer)
3)Is there a Special wall (non-starter and non-legendary) besides Probopass that works well and has decent Defense?

Thanks again, guys.

Swellow is another good physical sweeper, having Speed on par with Weavile and having STABed Gutsed Facade.

I can't think of any other really important roles.

Hypno is a special wall that no one would expect. You could also use Chansey, Gardevoir or Slowking.

Until wii meet again,
Wii4Mii 99

 

[Demenise]

Okay. So now, I have:

-Cloyster
-Muk/Probopass (Hazer wall/overall great wall)
-Gardevoir (probably, Special Attack sweeper)
-Zangoose
-Miltank (probably, Cleric)
-Kingler (POSSIBLY, another Physical Sweeper can't hurt)

So...

1) Is Gardevoir DEFINITELY a Borderline Pokemon and not Overused?
2) Any Pokemon that I should replace for any reason?

By the way, I'm not a big fan of pre-evolutions.

 

[MysticKenji]

Okay. So now, I have:

-Cloyster
-Muk/Probopass (Hazer wall/overall great wall)
-Gardevoir (probably, Special Attack sweeper)
-Zangoose
-Miltank (probably, Cleric)
-Kingler (POSSIBLY, another Physical Sweeper can't hurt)

So...

1) Is Gardevoir DEFINITELY a Borderline Pokemon and not Overused?
2) Any Pokemon that I should replace for any reason?

By the way, I'm not a big fan of pre-evolutions.

1. Gardevoir might've been OU in the 3rd gen, but is Borderline now
2. Hm...well...E-vire/Gyara combo kills half your team. Gallade does some damage too, but is killed by Gardevoir. Kingler could be switched to another pokemon to counter this.

 

[Demenise]

Hm... After looking over my team again, I've found many different common weaknesses, most being Fighting. So, I'm switching my team around again.

-Zangoose (Physical Sweeper)
-Cloyster (Spiker/Rapid Spinner/Physical Wall)
-Gardevoir (Special Sweeper)
-Cleric PREFFERED (not Miltank or Chansey, can be replaced by a non-Cleric depending on Pokemon limits)
-Special Wall (no pre-evolutions or Probopass)
-Another Pokemon (preferably another Sweeper)

Any suggestions? I need a good Cleric that's not Miltank or a pre-evolution (it could be something besides a Cleric depending on Pokemon limitations) , a good Special Wall that's not a pre-evolution or Probopass (I don't need more prey for Fighting-types), and another Pokemon.

Thanks again!

 

[MysticKenji]

Hm... After looking over my team again, I've found many different common weaknesses, most being Fighting. So, I'm switching my team around again.

-Zangoose (Physical Sweeper)
-Cloyster (Spiker/Rapid Spinner/Physical Wall)
-Gardevoir (Special Sweeper)
-Cleric PREFFERED (not Miltank or Chansey, can be replaced by a non-Cleric depending on Pokemon limits)
-Special Wall (no pre-evolutions or Probopass)
-Another Pokemon (preferably another Sweeper)

Any suggestions? I need a good Cleric that's not Miltank or a pre-evolution (it could be something besides a Cleric depending on Pokemon limitations) , a good Special Wall that's not a pre-evolution or Probopass (I don't need more prey for Fighting-types), and another Pokemon.

Thanks again!

I don't know much about Clerics, so I can't help you there.

As for the Special Wall, Solrock could be used due to being Rock/Psychic, so he helps kill Fighting types. On the other hand, he's countered by Dark, Water, Grass and Steel...

Gliscor/Mamoswine would be a step to taking care of that problem...

 

[lowradiation8989]

1. Gardevoir might've been OU in the 3rd gen, but is Borderline now
2. Hm...well...E-vire/Gyara combo kills half your team. Gallade does some damage too, but is killed by Gardevoir. Kingler could be switched to another pokemon to counter this.

the e-vire/g-dos combo is way too obvious

 

[Demenise]

Hm... After looking over my team again, I've found many different common weaknesses, most being Fighting. So, I'm switching my team around again.

-Zangoose (Physical Sweeper)
-Cloyster (Spiker/Rapid Spinner/Physical Wall)
-Gardevoir (Special Sweeper)
-Cleric PREFFERED (not Miltank or Chansey, can be replaced by a non-Cleric depending on Pokemon limits)
-Special Wall (no pre-evolutions or Probopass)
-Another Pokemon (preferably another Sweeper)

Any suggestions? I need a good Cleric that's not Miltank or a pre-evolution (it could be something besides a Cleric depending on Pokemon limitations) , a good Special Wall that's not a pre-evolution or Probopass (I don't need more prey for Fighting-types), and another Pokemon.

Thanks again!

Still need help with that.

And Kenji, Mamoswine and Gliscor are two Pokemon that I would LOVE to have on my team. Only thing is, they're both OU.

 

[tshahi10]

poliwrath isn't TOO bad (bulk up/belly drum), and electrode is the fastest non-legendary pokemon (416 max speed)

muk is a good wall/hazer, and gardevoir is exactly the same as gallade........except the attack and specatk stats are just switched around

probopass is a good pokemon to use too.............flash cannon, t-wave, block, magnet rise/iron defense

since when is ninjask legendary

Swellow is another good physical sweeper, having Speed on par with Weavile and having STABed Gutsed Facade.

I can't think of any other really important roles.

Hypno is a special wall that no one would expect. You could also use Chansey, Gardevoir or Slowking.

Until wii meet again,
Wii4Mii 99

swellow can hold flame orb and sweep with facade

 

[Demenise]

Alright, so after re-examining my choices, I really don't have many Clerics to choose from. So, because of the lack of actual jobs, I have to live with what I have.

-Cloyster (Spiker/Rapid Spinner/Physical Wall)
-Gardevoir (Special Sweeper)
-Zangoose (Physical Sweeper)
-Special Wall/All Around Good Wall (not Probopass or Solrock)
-Physical Sweeper (not Swellow)
-Special Sweeper

Questions:

1) Are there ANY other jobs besides Cleric that I can replace one of the new Pokemon with?
2) What are some good Pokemon for the positions not yet filled?
3) Is Zangoose really powerful enough to be on the team? I mean, he's powerful, but I'm pretty sure that there are some Borderline that overpower him... is he good enough, though? He's one of my favorites.

I really appreciate the help.

By the way, once again, NO PRE-EVOLUTIONS.

 

[lowradiation8989]

since when is ninjask legendary




swellow can hold flame orb and sweep with facade

well, his atk isn't very good, and the fact that burned pokemon's atk goes a stage lower, his guts will just bring it back to normal........plus, i find normal moves quite useless, since they can never be supereffective against anything

 

[shadydentist]

so... toxic orb swellow? guts+facade is quite beastly. That, plus STAB? Ridiculous.

edit: Oh, I think guts cancells out burn's reduced attack.

 

[lowradiation8989]

so... toxic orb swellow? guts+facade is quite beastly. That, plus STAB? Ridiculous.

edit: Oh, I think guts cancells out burn's reduced attack.

toxic orb is better

 

[Wii4Mii 99]

Guts cancels out Burn Orb's burn's attack reduction.

Toxic Orb does more damage to the user, starting on the third turn because it badly poisons the Pokemon like Toxic, not ordinarily poisons it.

Vileplume is like, UU, has access to Aromatherapy, and has a resistance to Fighting.

Until wii meet again,
Wii4Mii 99

 

[Demenise]

I think that I may add Vileplume to my team. It's a good Cleric, plus it makes a decent Special Wall. It also has good Sp. Atk.

1) Is this a good choice for a Cleric/Special Wall, or should I get Muk, which is a pure Special Wall, but does it better?

2) If I DO keep Vileplume, is this a good Moveset?

-Aromatherapy
-Synthesis
-Solarbeam
-Sunny Day (for Clorophyll, Synthesis, and Solarbeam)

 

[Zook]

No, go with Flame Orb. Guts negates the Atk lowering, and burn does less damage than Toxic.

EDIT: Wait, I'm replying to the last post last page. W4M beat me to it!

 

[Wii4Mii 99]

No, go with Flame Orb. Guts negates the Atk lowering, and burn does less damage than Toxic.

Hey, why didn't I think of that?

Until wii meet again,
Wii4Mii 99

 

[Demenise]

I think that I may add Vileplume to my team. It's a good Cleric, plus it makes a decent Special Wall. It also has good Sp. Atk.

1) Is this a good choice for a Cleric/Special Wall, or should I get Muk, which is a pure Special Wall, but does it better?

2) If I DO keep Vileplume, is this a good Moveset?

-Aromatherapy
-Synthesis
-Solarbeam
-Sunny Day (for Clorophyll, Synthesis, and Solarbeam)

------------------------------

Also, Toxic Orb >>> Flame Orb. Toxic Orb lowers your defenses and does more damage OVER TIME. However, it does not lower attack, which really helps Facade become a OHKO move. Then, you can switch Swellow out, and the Toxic damage will be reset (It takes away 1/16 HP, then 1/8 HP, then 1/4 HP, etc. every turn if you don't switch out. Every time you switch the Pokemon out, it resets and takes away 1/16 HP).

Flame Orb, on the other hand, lowers Attack but does a set 1/16 damage each turn. Now, you may be thinking that Guts cancels it out. This is true, but remember, it cancels out Guts. Guts is one of the major reasons that Swellow has Facade. Therefore, Flame Orb is pretty much a waste to the non-experienced player.

If you're a good switcher, then Toxic Orb works much better.

 

[Wii4Mii 99]

Guts cancels out burn's attack reduction, but you still get the Guts attack boost. Toxic does 1/16, 2/16, 3/16, etc, while burn does 1/16.

Both Orbs give you a Guts boost, but Toxic does more damage.

Gutsed STABed powered-up Facade FTW.

That Vileplume moveset looks pretty good. You'll just have to watch out for Tyranitar and Sandstorm.

Until wii meet again,
Wii4Mii 99

 

[Demenise]

Is Vileplume an effective Special Wall altogether, or is Muk better, despite the fact that he has no healing options? (He has Haze, though, but I'm pretty sure that I can get a PHazer, which compliments Cloyster's Spikes.)

 

[Wii4Mii 99]

Meh, Vileplume has a weakness to Ice Beam, a very common Special Attack. Flamethrower is also seen a bit.

Altaria may work as a Special Wall, as long as you watch out for Ice Beam. It has 105 base Special Defense. Roost, and cal learn Haze through breeding.

Until wii meet again,
Wii4Mii 99

 

[game & kirby]

altaria isn't a bad idea, but 4x weak to ice is hard to swallow for mediocre stats. I have two suggestions to make:

For your physical sweeper, kangaskhan is a good idea. 95 base atk to zangoose's 115, but much better defenses and hp, good speed (base 90) and a much, much better moveset, with moves like a STABed dizzy punch, EQ, and even Outrage, which i think is a brilliant move for him to have. Possible moveset:
-Crunch
-Outrage
-Earthquake
-Brick Break

Kangaskhan is also able to sub-punch or sub-reverse, if you so wish.

For your special sweeper, yanmega could work really well, as posted in some other threads. Brilliant spAtk, and with a base 95 speed, using protect 1st turn means that next turn it outruns just about anything. (speed boost ability) Good STAB moves like Bug Buzz and Air slash help. Possible moveset:
-Bug Buzz
-Air Slash
-Protect
-psychic/ancientpower

any comments?

 

[Demenise]

Hm... I've been thinking about Physical Sweepers, and it has always been a toss up between Zangoose and Kangaskhan... I dunno, I may choose Kangaskhan instead.

I'm definitely not choosing Yanmega. It's usually considered Overused, and I'm just not a big fan of it.

I like Altaria almost as much as I like Vileplume. The things about Altaria:

1) It cannot attack. It'd just be a waste if it did, for it's better with support and it's not that strong.
2) It can only heal itself with Refresh or with Natural Cure. It can't heal anyone else.
3) Ice Beam is the most common attack in competitive play, and it can't take a hit from Ice Beam.
4) It can't do anything but Haze, Refresh, and Sing.

Vileplume, on the other hand, although its defenses are a little lower, can actually heal itself quickly with Synthesis, can do a bit of attacking for itself, and has Aromatherapy.

Feel free to tell me if any of this is wrong.

1) How much better is Kangaskhan than Zangoose?
2) Altaria or Vileplume?