Official Bob-Omg Social: Count to 300 bob-ombs!

[Fluttershy]

17 "Baby don't hurt me"

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

"Baby don't hurt me"

That reference was too easy to make...

 

[Omar_25]

19 Bob-ombs

 

[Hat N' Clogs]

Since there's a lot of hype going about concerning the upcoming patch, along with the first official Sm4sh tier list, I have decided to release my own personal list at this time! Hopefully this will give the thread more life as of late. Feel free to critique.

EDIT: I updated this list soon after posting. There's a newer one down the page.

Spoiler

Top Tier (Epic winners. S+ is OP, and everyone else is really good in more ways than one.):
S+:
S:
S-:

High Tier (Plz use in tournaments. They are good.):
A+:
A:
A-:

Middle Tier (Pretty good, but not solid good. Tournament viability is in question.):
B+:
B:
B-:

Low Tier (Proceed with caution. Not optimal in many environments.):
C+:
C:
C-:

Bottom Tier (LOL you suck):
D+:
D:
D-:

Changes from official list:
The tier system I used involves having less separate letters. I'm avoiding tiers like "I", "J", etc. Characters are either in S, A, B, C, or D, and then those mega tiers are split up into upper, middle, and lower for each bigger tier.

Big Character changes:
: 29th to 18th (One word: Abadango)
: 22nd to 35th (He's not seen a lot in tournaments, and his lack of attack range can be highly problematic. He's still good enough to be a middle tier though.)
: 42nd to 31st (By far the best Link in the series, and the only remotely good Link IMO. He just feels a lot more natural than the other Links when I play as him. His stat buffs also put him on par with Melee Link at worst.)
: 45th to 38th (His stats and tournament results are far from good, but I don't find them bad enough to be borderline bottom tier. He's been used as a counterpick before.)
: 54th to 45th (Could be biased since I LOVE Ganon in this game, but I don't think he's worthy of bottom 3. This isn't Brawl anymore, and I think his stat buffs compensate. Even so, he's still a poor character).

While this could spark some interesting Smash conversation, I above all else posted because I was bored.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I'd raise Mewtwo to C+, Dedede to at least C and the Miis to D or D+

But besides those three things, I think you pretty much got it...

 

[Hat N' Clogs]

I'd raise Mewtwo to C+, Dedede to at least C and the Miis to D or D+

But besides those three things, I think you pretty much got it...

Thanks for the input! Admittedly, the lower tiers are a place in which I'm less confident and probably less accurate, since tournament results are harder to see, and they simply aren't seen a lot. I'm not a low tier specialist, as evidenced with my 2 Sm4sh mains of Fox and Mario.

22

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Thanks for the input! Admittedly, the lower tiers are a place in which I'm less confident, since tournament results are harder to see, and they simply aren't seen a lot. I'm not a low tier specialist, as evidenced with my 2 Sm4sh mains of Fox and Mario.

Trust me, a good Dedede is ridiculous.

The super armor on the upB and all the shenanigans with the Gordos can make him a serious threat on the right hands.

I fight Dededes on a near-weekly basis, so I'm well aware of how ridiculous he can get.

As for Mewtwo, he's better than he looks. Sure, he can die early, but he's got more than enough tools to return the favor.

The Miis, I actually met a Mii main who used 1111 movesets. Bottom tier is accurate, but I don't think bottom of bottom tier is the right position...

 

[Hat N' Clogs]

Trust me, a good Dedede is ridiculous.

The super armor on the upB and all the shenanigans with the Gordos can make him a serious threat on the right hands.

I fight Dededes on a near-weekly basis, so I'm well aware of how ridiculous he can get.

As for Mewtwo, he's better than he looks. Sure, he can die early, but he's got more than enough tools to return the favor.

The Miis, I actually met a Mii main who used 1111 movesets. Bottom tier is accurate, but I don't think bottom of bottom tier is the right position...

OK. I have little to no DDD experience, so I didn't know about his strategies or stats.

With Mewtwo, I don't like the weight issue. I do think he has tools to be solid, but I still find his light weight extremely problematic.
I find the Gunner and Swordsman to be awful, mainly because of their limited range and air game options. This gets worse with the Swordsman since his/her KO power is pretty darn bad.The Mii Brawler is helped since he/she has better combos and KO power. Whenever I play Mii G or Mii S, I find a void that can't be filled. I just don't see a lot of use with Mii G and Mii S. They may have been buffed over time, but I still find them the worst in the game. Zelda could be worse than them like the experts say, but I currently see Mii G and Mii S as horrendous.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

OK. I have little to no DDD experience, so I didn't know about his strategies or stats.

A good Dedede is scary.

Heck, middle tier may be a more suiting position for the King.

With Mewtwo, I don't like the weight issue. I do think he has tools to be solid, but I still find his light weight extremely problematic.

True, but putting him bottom of low JUST because he dies easy and yet, Cloud and Mac are higher?

Plus, his Teleport is a great recovery!

I find the Gunner and Swordsman to be awful, mainly because of their limited range and air game options. This gets worse with the Swordsman since his/her KO power is pretty darn bad.The Mii Brawler is helped since he/she has better combos and KO power. Whenever I play Mii G or Mii S, I find a void that can't be filled. I just don't see a lot of use with Mii G and Mii S. They may have been buffed over time, but I still find them the worst in the game. Zelda could be worse than them like the experts say, but I currently see Mii G and Mii S as horrendous.

But said they're worse than Zelda is a little too much, imo.

Actually, put every D- character in D. They're bad, but not worse than Samus or Jigglypuff...at least, not enought to earn them a lower tier...

 

[Hat N' Clogs]

True, but putting him bottom of low JUST because he dies easy and yet, Cloud and Mac are higher?

Plus, his Teleport is a great recovery!

Yeah, my bad for not being more clear. I think it's one of Mewtwo's most critical weaknesses, but it's not the only reason why he's in C-.

His recovery is indeed good, which helps vertical endurance, but his horizontal endurance is laughably bad.
Other reasons why I find Mewtwo poor is because he's even easier to hit and maybe even combo now due to being even a bigger target than he was in Melee, and since wavedashing is gone, his approach isn't as reliable. His grab game is highly nerfed as well since chaingrabbing is no longer existent, and his throws were one of the few good things about him in Melee. While his air game may have gotten better, his ground game is still not noteworthy.

On the upside, Confusion is a lot better in this game, which is nice, and disable is more useful as well. His aerials are overall stronger as well. His recovery is still solid, at least.

However, I still find Mewtwo to be a low tier character, and also not bordering on middle tier because of those weaknesses.

In other news, I placed Jiggs and Samus above the bottom 3 because I at least know people that play these two characters. NOBODY plays Zelda, Mii G, or Mii S.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Other reasons why I find Mewtwo poor is because he's even easier to hit and maybe even combo now due to being even a bigger target than he was in Melee, and since wavedashing is gone, his approach isn't as reliable. His grab game is highly nerfed as well since chaingrabbing is no longer existent, and his throws were one of the few good things about him in Melee. While his air game may have gotten better, his ground game is no different.

On the upside, Confusion is a lot better in this game, which is nice, and disable is more useful as well. His aerials are overall stronger as well. His recovery is still solid, at least.

However, I still find Mewtwo to be a low tier character, and also not bordering on middle tier because of those weaknesses.

That makes sense...

 

[Hat N' Clogs]

That makes sense...

I sure hope it does.
Once again, I'm not a low tier expert. I'm doing my best to understand the less viable characters, though.

28

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I sure hope it does.
Once again, I'm not a low tier expert. I'm doing my best to understand the less viable characters, though.

Yeah, low tiers are tough to really figure out...

I got lucky to know about Dedede and his middle tier potential, to be honest.

Also, because of the way the game is balanced, I don't see the point of dividing the tiers in three sub-tiers.

I'd say S+ is its own tier as SS, then S and S- in the same tier, then all the As and so on.

 

[Hat N' Clogs]

Yeah, low tiers are tough to really figure out.

I got lucky to know about Dedede and his middle tier potential, to be honest...

Also, because of the way the game is balanced, I don't see the point of dividing the tiers in three sub-tiers...

I'd say S+ is its own tier as SS, then S and S- in the same tier, then all the As and so on...

I get what you're saying about sub-tiers.

I could merge them together, but I personally like having 3 sub-tiers for each bigger tier. It makes it easier for me to analyze and split the characters. With the system I use, I personally think "ok, these top tiers are OP, semi-OP, and great but not quite OP. With high tiers, there's real good, pretty darn good, and good enough to be viable in tournaments, etc." It's just easier for me to interpret how good the characters are. My mind is weird like that

 

[A10theHero]

31 howdies

 

[Hat N' Clogs]

32 greetings to a Pikachu main named A10

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I could merge them together, but I personally like having 3 sub-tiers for each bigger tier. It makes it easier for me to analyze and split the characters. With the system I use, I personally think "ok, these top tiers are OP, semi-OP, and great but not quite OP. With high tiers, there's real good, pretty darn good, and good enough to be viable in tournaments, etc." It's just easier for me to interpret how good the characters are. My mind is weird like that

Also, I forgot to say something; Cloud is too high!

Sure, he's got a lot of tools to be viable, but top of high tier?

The reason I didn't speak of it before is because I'm biased

 

[A10theHero]

34
I gave a really detailed answer to this person's question in the Pikachu Q&A thread and now they think I'm an experienced player and I should train them. How do I let them down gently? I'm a terrible player.

 

[Hat N' Clogs]

Also, I forgot to say something; Cloud is too high!

Sure, he's got a lot of tools to be viable, but top of high tier?

The reason I didn't speak of it before is because I'm biased

Ah, ok.
In the few matches I had with Fluttershy and also by watching your tournament set, I saw potential in Cloud. Yeah, he's not too hard to combo and his recovery is hilarious, but he's got amazing KO power, decent combos, has good mobility for a higher middle-weight, and limit break done right is awesome. His popularity is pretty high as well (but this point isn't completely accurate since he's a recent DLC release, and the hype factor is strong with this one).

However, he could easily go down though since he was released recently. The only higher tier DLC character that's always been "good" (or rather higher tier potential) in my eyes for a long time has been Ryu, and there's not a huge chance Cloud is the 2nd one. Even so, I find him to be solid as of now.

35

 

[A10theHero]

36
Roy is secret top tier. :^)

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I gave a really detailed answer to this person's question in the Pikachu Q&A thread and now they think I'm an experienced player and I should train them. How do I let them down gently? I'm a terrible player.

Tell them you switched to Cloud

Ah, ok.
In the few matches I had with Fluttershy and also by watching your tournament set, I saw potential in Cloud. Yeah, he's not too hard to combo and his recovery is hilarious, but he's got amazing KO power, decent combos, has good mobility for a higher middle-weight, and limit break done right is awesome. His popularity is pretty high as well (but this point isn't completely accurate since he's a recent DLC release).

However, he could easily go down though since he was released recently. The only higher tier DLC character that's always been "good" (or rather higher tier potential) in my eyes for a long time has been Ryu, and there's not a huge chance Cloud is the 2nd one. Even so, I find him to be solid as of now.

Amazing KO power? You mean the Limit Breaks?

Limit Break mode is a double-edged sword; you gain powerful moves, greater recovery and faster speed, but also get a slightly shorter jump and a faster falling speed, making it more difficult to recover without wasting Climhazzard (his double jump is pretty good for horizontal recoveries, by the way) AND making it easier to combo him.

He's definetely a solid character, but the position you gave him is too high, imo.

 

[Hat N' Clogs]

Tell them you switched to Cloud


Amazing KO power? You mean the Limit Breaks?

Limit Break mode is a double-edged sword; you gain powerful moves, greater recovery and faster speed, but also get a slightly shorter jump and a faster falling speed, making it more difficult to recover without wasting Climhazzard (his double jump is pretty good for horizontal recoveries, by the way) AND making it easier to combo him.

He's definetely a solid character, but the position you gave him is a too high, imo.

I do mean within the limit breaks, yes...which would make the ko power/limit break point sorta redundant, but whatevs.

I didn't know about the faster fall speed, actually. Well, that shows my Cloud maining skills Embarrass
38

A10theHero He's our boy!

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I do mean within the limit breaks, yes...which would make the ko power/limit break point sorta redundant, but whatevs.

He's still got KO potential with his forward smash and, at much higher damages, foward tilt, up tilt, back air and, of course, has two meteor smashes, including his down air, which is the fastest in the game despite its startup (meteors on frame 10).

I didn't know about the faster fall speed, actually. Well, that shows my Cloud experience Embarrass

Also, Limit Break mode really screws his gameplay...

You'd be surprised how useful Climhazzard and Blade Beam can be in the neutral. Also, he loses the ability to Limit Cancel, which means he loses the ability to do anything out of a dash.

Limit Break does more harm than good, to be honest.

 

[A10theHero]

40 characters who are our boy

 

[Hat N' Clogs]

He's still got KO potential with his forward smash and, at much higher damages, foward tilt, up tilt, back air and, of course, has two meteor smashes, including his down air, which is the fastest in the game despite its startup (meteors on frame 10).


Also, Limit Break mode really screws his gameplay...

You'd be surprised how useful Climhazzard and Blade Beam can be in the neutral. Also, he loses the ability to Limit Cancel, which means he loses the ability to do anything out of a dash.

Limit Break does more harm than good, to be honest.

Thanks for the info. I trust your knowledge of Cloud highly. Because of this, a modified tier list will be coming soon...
41

Edit: Here's the updated list:

Spoiler

Top Tier (Epic winners. S+ is OP, and everyone else is really good in more ways than one.):
S+:
S:
S-:

High Tier (Plz use in tournaments. They are good.):
A+:
A:
A-:

Middle Tier (Pretty good, but not solid good. Tournament viability is in question.):
B+:
B:
B-:

Low Tier (Proceed with caution. Not optimal in many environments.):
C+:
C:
C-:

Bottom Tier (LOL you suck):
D+:
D:
D-:

Edits: I trust your analysis in general concerning DDD and Cloud, but I stand by my opinions on Mewtwo, Mii G, and Mii S. Lucina fell to bottom because after thinking about it, I find her to be the least useful FE character. Her range is weaker than Marth's, she doesn't have KO potential like Ike or Roy, and she can't camp like Robin. Lucina is very basic, and that hurts her in my mind.

 

[ELITEWarri0r115]

42 Roy Mains

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Thanks for the info. I trust your knowledge of Cloud highly. Because of this, a modified tier list will be coming soon...

Also, his KO potential MAY be amazing, but actualy landing the moves? That's another story...

High Tier is something I could see happening for Cloud because he has a lot of options and decent frame data (not great, but not horrible either), but you're overestimating him...

 

[Omar_25]

44 Bob-ombs

Is Samus really that bad in Smash 4? I've only played the game like five times so I really wouldn't know.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Is Samus really that bad in Smash 4? I've only played the game like five times so I really wouldn't know.

The only good Samus I know (besides Zero Suit) is Melee Samus...

 

[ELITEWarri0r115]

46 wishes to change username

 

[Hat N' Clogs]

The Stoopid Unikorn Does the new Cloud placement look good?

47

Spoiler

Top Tier (Epic winners. S+ is OP, and everyone else is really good in more ways than one.):
S+:
S:
S-:

High Tier (Plz use in tournaments. They are good.):
A+:
A:
A-:

Middle Tier (Pretty good, but not solid good. Tournament viability is in question.):
B+:
B:
B-:

Low Tier (Proceed with caution. Not optimal in many environments.):
C+:
C:
C-:

Bottom Tier (LOL you suck):
D+:
D:
D-:

Edits: I trust your analysis in general concerning DDD and Cloud, but I stand by my opinions on Mewtwo, Mii G, and Mii S. Lucina fell to bottom because after thinking about it, I find her to be the least useful FE character by quite a lot. Her range is weaker than Marth's, she doesn't have KO potential like Ike or Roy, and she can't camp like Robin. Lucina is very basic, and that hurts her in my mind.

 

[Ness Gymrae]

48 Tier Lists

 

[Hat N' Clogs]

49 greetings to Ness Gymrae

 

[Ness Gymrae]

50. Good day to you Hat n'

 

[ELITEWarri0r115]

51 Bob-ombs

 

[Felix the Slayer]

52

Guess who pre-ordered FE Fates: Birthright?

Spoiler

Not me

Spoiler

Because I pre-ordered Conquest instead

 

[Fluttershy]

36
Roy is secret top tier. :^)

I prefer Browser Jr. Myself but eh

52

Guess who pre-ordered FE Fates: Birthright?

Spoiler

Not me

Spoiler

Because I pre-ordered Conquest instead

..Traitor

 

[Felix the Slayer]

54

 

[Ness Gymrae]

55

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Hat N' Clogs

For now, it's pretty good, but I'm sure we'll have a more accurate position in a few months