Official Bob-Omg Social: Count to 300 bob-ombs!

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

...Have you even been reading my posts? I don't think you have.

Enlighten me then

 

[A10theHero]

72 Lucario that inflict 300% damage to themselves

Enlighten me then

Everything I needed to say has already been said. Just scroll up and read it, dude.

 

[Luig]

73
Yeah, what you said A10...
It's a common misconception that Melee has more hitstun than brawl and 4. However, that's just because more BKB in 4 and brawl, airdodges being usable out of tumble(and no helplessness), and fall speeds and gravity are universally lower.

 

[A10theHero]

74
Yep, that's what I said. And there's rage too.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I actually think they should bring back brawl airdodge, but keep the ground lag.

Brawl's airdodges actually had more than 3 frames of end lag.

Yeah, but there are so many invincibility frames in those that spamming them is actually safe...

 

[Luig]

Yeah, but there are so many invincibility frames in those that spamming them is actually safe...

76
Airdodges in brawl and 4 have the same amount of invincibility frames (sans a few character specific ones)
However, in smash 4, airdodges have much more IASA frames than in brawl. Try it out. It's actually really noticeable.

 

[A10theHero]

77
http://www.buzzfeed.com/ahmedaliakbar/xx-reasons-the-official-sonic-the-hedgehog-twitter#.hu3jjqDB3

 

[Luig]

77

 

[A10theHero]

79
SG never responded when I told him to scroll up and read my old posts, so I might as well write them again:

53
Smash 4 has the same hitstun formula as Melee and Brawl. It's the overall increased base knockback and lower fall speeds that really prevents combos.

57
Yeah, but it's not by much. Airdodging is still a much stronger option since, unlike in Melee, it won't make you helpless. And again, rage, the increased base knockback, and fall speeds lower than Melee's mean it's not combo-oriented. Increasing the hit stun would just make the characters with combo-oriented playstyles stronger and increase the gap between top tier and bottom tier characters.

 

[Luig]

80
Yeah, that does make sense.
I wonder how they could make the game less defense oriented and a bit more combo oriented though....

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Airdodges in brawl and 4 have the same amount of invincibility frames (sans a few character specific ones)

I'll look it up.

. . .

Smash 4's air dodges have 11-15 less frames of ending lag depending on the character, but saying an air dodge is quicker than 25 frames for any character is an exaggeration. (fastest is 28, slowest is 34)

However, in smash 4, airdodges have much more IASA frames than in brawl. Try it out. It's actually really noticeable.

No.

Again, it's the lowered ending lag.

 

[Deleted member]

82 People would rather flex their muscles

 

[Luig]

I'll look it up.

. . .

Smash 4's air dodges have 11-15 less frames of ending lag depending on the character, but saying it has less than 25 frames of lag for any of them is an exaggeration. (fastest is 28, slowest is 34)


No.

Again, it's the lowered ending lag.

83
IASA means how many interruptible frames the attack has. that's what I meant by IASA. It meant less end lag.

 

[A10theHero]

84 people don't chuckle

I personally prefer the lack of combos because it means that there's a greater emphasis on reading and predicting your opponent. It makes the mental aspect of the competition more interesting, but it comes at the cost of visual competition, so it's understandable why that's unpopular.
Regardless, to increase the amount of combos, they would first have to decrease the knockback in certain attacks, especially those of lower-tiered characters. Decreasing the endlag and startup in certain attacks would work too. The only hard part would be maintaining each character's unique aspects while doing this.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

IASA means how many interruptible frames the attack has. that's what I meant by IASA. It meant less end lag.

IASA basically means doing something before the attack ends.

Air dodges don't have those frames; you can't do anything until the air dodge is over.

 

[Luig]

86
It's like all the people that think there can be a perfectly balanced game. You can't have a game like this without having a character that is better than another character, unless you sacrifice the characters' originality. So have fun with all your mario clones.

 

[Hat N' Clogs]

87 Mario clones

 

[Luig]

IASA basically means doing something before the attack ends.

Air dodges don't have those frames; you can't do anything until the air dodge is over.

88
Oh, I checked it.
My bad.

 

[Smudges]

89 mario clones

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

There can't be a perfect balance with a roster filled with so many different characters.

But among the four Smash games, 4 got closest to it.

 

[Hat N' Clogs]

There can't be a perfect balance with a roster filled with so many different characters.

But among the four Smash games, 4 got closest to it.

Uh huh. It also helps that they are releasing patches for the game.

91

 

[Luig]

82
I'm not sure which one was less balanced.... brawl or melee...

 

[A10theHero]

93
Brawl was more unbalanced because it was pretty much Meta Knight or death.
Melee was more balanced with at least 8 different characters being common victors.

 

[Hat N' Clogs]

82
I'm not sure which one was less balanced.... brawl or melee...

Brawl, cuz

94

 

[Smudges]

IASA basically means doing something before the attack ends.

Air dodges don't have those frames; you can't do anything until the air dodge is over.

Correct. Certain moves appear to have a long animation, but can actually be interrupted during the animation. Things like MK's Fsmash, and Rob's down tilt. Especially the latter. He has this animation where he pulls his hands back, but you can cancel that by doing anything else.

Sorry, you guys are too quick for me...
95

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I'm not sure which one was less balanced.... brawl or melee...

What about 64?

 

[Deleted member]

97 Nui Harimes

 

[A10theHero]

98
Melee just has a much higher degree of technical skill required than Brawl and Smash 4

 

[Hat N' Clogs]

What about 64?

64's balance is pretty good, so I venture that the decent character balance of the 1st game is why it wasn't an option.

99 options

 

[Luig]

What about 64?

100
I've seen people win tournaments with Luigi and Samus in 64. I haven't seen anyone win with Pichu in melee or Ganon in brawl....

 

[Deleted member]

101 Nui Harimes

 

[A10theHero]

102
Poor Melee Kirby

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I've seen people win tournaments with Luigi and Samus in 64.

Isai doesn't count...

I haven't seen anyone win with Pichu in melee or Ganon in brawl....

True...

 

[Luig]

Isai doesn't count...


True...

64 has a very different playstyle... if you know how to avoid and hit, you can win with pretty much anybody. As Isai puts it, don't get hit.

102
Poor Melee Kirby

104
I don't think he's good... but i think he's better than he's given credit for.

 

[A10theHero]

105
Agreed.

 

[Hat N' Clogs]

All this Smash talk has inspired me to post my current Melee tier list:

Spoiler

Hat n' clogs' Super Smash Bros. Melee tier list

Current as of July 7th, 2015

SS/OP Tier:
S/Top Tier:
A/High Tier:
B/Mid-High Tier:
C/Middle Tier:
D/Mid-Low Tier:
E/Upper Low Tier:
F/Low Tier:
G/Bottom Tier:
H/LOL FAIL Tier:




Mega-Tiers:

Viable:
Semi-Viable:
Not Viable:

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Put Marth on S and I completely agree, Hat

 

[Hat N' Clogs]

Put Marth on S and I completely agree, Hat

Spoiler

The reason why I put in SS in-between the spacies is because his attack range is SO GOOD and his predictable recovery is the only critical weakness that can be seen. has good speed, amazing combos, solid KO power, nice dash dancing, the Ken Combo, and isn't as easy to combo as his fellow top tier brethren (aside from . She's pretty much immune to zero-death lol).

Anyway, has worse recovery than , and has good range but not GREAT range. can also get combo'ed for days and his endurance isn't the best (vertical is amazing, but horizontal is poor). has decent KO power, but it's not as good as 's. still has arguably the best combo game in the roster, though. is a little faster than , but I still think Marth beats him overall, in stats and in specific matchups.

However, is indeed the best character. Best mobility, arguably the best combo game, decent recovery, solid KO power, good mind game potential. His attack range is even manageable despite being mediocre. Only critical weaknesses he has is that he can get KOed easily if you get comboed hard. is not only a fast faller, but is also a light weight. This can be problematic if the player isn't careful and/or skilled at DI. Even so, he's still got good enough pros to be better than .

Overall, is good enough to go toe-to-toe with the spacies IMO, but he's not the best character in the game because has better combos, mobility, KO setups, the shine, matchups, etc. while I think is better than because has worse recovery, can get easily comboed and edgeguarded by and also other characters, and has amazing attack range
(maybe the best in the game; or at least even with and ).

I'm not a professional Melee player, so don't take this as gospel truth. This is just what I have observed from watching tournaments on youtube.

 

[Smudges]

Sorry, but melee Bowser is a competitively viable Solo-Main, and I resent his low placement in your tier list. You are WRONG.
109

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

110

Good night.

Sorry, but melee Bowser is a competitively viable Solo-Main, and I resent his low placement in your tier list. You are WRONG.
109

By that logic, Smash 4 Bowser is OP