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Big Boss for Brawl+

Jiangjunizzy

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 9, 2006
Messages
1,188
Location
irvine, CA
BIG BOSS
a.k.a. Naked Snake
for BRAWL+


First of all, a big thanks to Phantom Wings for his release of Project SA, without him, not only would this project be impossible, but Brawl+, BBrawl and other projects would never come to fruition. So a big, big thanks to him and all the hard work he's done.

I can now get to work on a character that I think would make a great addition to the game: Big Boss. For those of you not familiar with Metal Gear Solid 3, Big Boss is the father of Solid Snake; in MGS3, you play as Big Boss circa 1960; while the characters look the same, they are actually quite different not only in personality, but play style. In MGS3, they added a whole new CQC (Close Quarters Combat) system to the game, which allows you to use judo-style attacks which disarm and disable your opponents.

I am not making Big Boss to fulfill some fanboy fantasy of playing him, I am instead focusing on making him an interesting character to play as. You may be familiar with the Dark Samus codeset I made a while back, and while I do plan to return to it, I think this project will ultimately be of a much higher quality because I actually played the game this character is from.

Anyway, since Big Boss uses CQC, I decided to give him an emphasis on shield pressure. Yes, Big Boss will be breaking shields. In the games, you must also hunt and kill your food and also constantly be in hiding; this means that Big Boss is a hunter, a silent, deadly hunter. The way I envision this to translate to Brawl+ is that Big Boss will lure his opponents to him with traps, but in exchange have very little to help in terms of approach or spacing.

I really appreciate feedback and advise.
I'm currently trying to think of ways that would make him dangerous against shields.


I currently have no codeset/.pac available at this time for download.
This thread is for discussion and ideas until I can get one up and running.

So here are my ideas for Big Boss:
-Super armor on Crawl: The reason I want this is because I intend to remove Snake's reliance on grenades, the ridiculous range of his tilts and his mortar slide. This means that Snake has no real way to get in the face of his opponent. Also, the crawl is kind of a homage to the amount of it you did in the MGS games.
-Lots of utility to his items: I want to give snake a lot of different tools he can use to prepare himself, in MGS3 he had to rely on his abyss of a backpack to keep him alive. This will include not all, but at least some:
-Smoke Grenades
-Stun Grenades
-Regular Grenades
-Sleep Grenades
-Mines that "ground" you (Think Dk's forward B)
-Mines that "shock" you (Think ZSS's dsmash)
-Rations (food that he can randomly get)
-An incredibly good jab cancel, mixup game.
-Less technology-based attacks and more physical attacks.


So here's what I've got planned, and trust me, most of this SHOULD be possible!


Normals
JAB
-Animation Change: Snake can now only do 2 jabs. Third hit is now moved to another move.
-Mostly stays the same.

FTILT
-Animation Change: Snake's third jab (the super kick) is now moved to this slot. There is now no second hit to this attack.
-This move will act as a spacing/defensive move.


UPTILT
-Animation Change: Snake's Ftilt Knee will be moved to this animation.
-Defensive move, it will lose it's ridiculous range horizontally, but will now instead gain some range vertically. It'll be snakes primary defensive/setup move.


DTILT
-Less knockback growth, will be used to set up for attacks.
-Less end lag.

Smashes

FORWARD SMASH
-Animation Change: Uses Snake's Ftilt Hammer Swat animation.
-Will be your everyday forward Smash. Have fun.


DOWN SMASH
-Will either ground opponents or stun them. Still haven't decided. The point of this move is to trap people.
-Perhaps allow more than 2 to be planted.


UP SMASH
-Animation Change: Uses Snake's Uptilt animation.
-The hitbox will be moved to make more sense, but will hit a little bit behind snake to give him some defensive options.
-Less kill power.
-More start up, but less end lag.


Aerials
I haven't really thought about what to do with these. I'd like to make most of them keep their start up. Maybe make his Nair come out faster, and end sooner.
NAIR

FAIR

UAIR

DAIR


Specials
Neutral B - Shot Gun
-Animation Change: Uses the forward smash animation
-This move comes out much more quickly, but has about the same ending lag as the regular forward smash.
-Blasts people far away, but doesn't kill until higher percents. This is Big Boss's wake up move.
-Not sure if this would work in the air. Probably wouldn't.

Side B – Survival Kit
-If possible, I really want to give snake a backpack that pulls out stuff.. I'm not sure how this would work. I was told by Paprika Killer it would be possible to make it come out in a certain order, but it could also work randomly like peach's turnips.

Frag Grenades
Grenades will generally come out a bit slower than Snake, but have a bit more utility. If possible, I'd like to give him all the grenades listed below.
-Works the same as regular grenades.

Flash Bang
-Causes sleep. (or the deku nut flash if possible)
-These grenades would only work on characters that are standing.
-They put Big Boss to sleep too if they go off in his face.

Smoke Grenade
-Leaves a trail of smoke behind. May seem useless at first, but coupled with a super armor crawl, traps and bombs everywhere, this could prove to be much more useful than you think.

Rations
-Snake pulls out some food, and eats it. Would come out randomly.
Down B – Plastic Explosive (C-3)
-Does less damage, has more base knockback
-Planted faster, ignited faster
-Walking over it.. makes it stick to you? Maybe?
-Used for recovery

Up B – Don't know.
-I was thinking of making this a third jump that had some super armor, but someone had a neat idea of making it a cypher that goes horizontally instead of veritcally (for a much shorter distance). So I'm not entirely sure yet.
 

bleyva

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 17, 2009
Messages
511
you didnt even finish Dark Samus and youre already on to a new character?
 

Gregory2590

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 24, 2006
Messages
487
Location
New Jersey
NNID
phireblast
Nair= First two kicks of his original Nair and finishes off with his fair animation?
Fair= Uses the last kick of his Nair animation?
Bair= Idk
Dair= Give a "dive" effect with one of the animations?

That's the best I could think of.
 

colored blind

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 7, 2008
Messages
398
Location
Purdue/West Lafayette
this is better than dark samus, work on this please. i loved mgs3 and big boss.
Lol. Way to be objective. MGS3 is my favorite MGS, but the Metroid franchise has been severely neglected in SSB for as popular as it is.

Bah. Dark Samus would take a lot more work than Big Boss, though.

Though, if we're going to take a character from MGS3, I'd much rather use The Boss. She could be easily modified from ZSS and her gun animations, but is about a billion times more badass than Big Boss/Naked Snake (actual scientific number).

The SA on crawl is a bit scary. All he has to do is crouch and you can't kill him.

As far as useful approaches go, a fast dash and good grab would allow him CQC techniques, especially with DC'd tilts and jabs. And some type of pistol to prevent him being uber-camped (spawn a gun and change the projectile effect with hex editing if you can). Or give him a decent F/Nair to prevent him from being uber-camped. One of the two.
 

Jiangjunizzy

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 9, 2006
Messages
1,188
Location
irvine, CA
Lol. Way to be objective. MGS3 is my favorite MGS, but the Metroid franchise has been severely neglected in SSB for as popular as it is.

Bah. Dark Samus would take a lot more work than Big Boss, though.

Though, if we're going to take a character from MGS3, I'd much rather use The Boss. She could be easily modified from ZSS and her gun animations, but is about a billion times more badass than Big Boss/Naked Snake (actual scientific number).

The SA on crawl is a bit scary. All he has to do is crouch and you can't kill him.

As far as useful approaches go, a fast dash and good grab would allow him CQC techniques, especially with DC'd tilts and jabs. And some type of pistol to prevent him being uber-camped (spawn a gun and change the projectile effect with hex editing if you can). Or give him a decent F/Nair to prevent him from being uber-camped. One of the two.
It will be heavy armor, like Snake's cypher. you can hit him out of it, but he'll be resistant to projectiles and such.
 

exfatal

Smash Cadet
Joined
Apr 20, 2009
Messages
48
Though, if we're going to take a character from MGS3, I'd much rather use The Boss. She could be easily modified from ZSS and her gun animations, but is about a billion times more badass than Big Boss/Naked Snake (actual scientific number).
this^^ i would difently want to see The Boss in brawl. A snake look alike isnt all too applying IMO
 

RPGsFTW

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
Messages
754
I really like your creativity with all of this. Your Dark Samus is cool too. I can't wait to see that finished.

I had an idea that might be really cool. Big Boss' D-air would use the animation of Snake's B-air, but it would meteor/spike an enemy down, as if he body slammed them. You can make the knockback whatever you think wouldn't be too overpowering, but I think it'd be cool to spike opponents into your Dsmash (mine) traps to further his ability to set-up trap kills. :)

That's all I can say at the moment. Big Boss sounds really cool. ;)
 

V-K

Smash Ace
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Jan 26, 2009
Messages
540
Location
Germany
yup but the aerials should be different to make him not a complete clone
 

Eternal Yoshi

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Get outta my head. I WANTED him to be a guard breaker that has slightly less KO power than Snake but higher damage output too.

I want him to have just flash grenades that hit both of them and put the opponent into a state of dizziness that can break shields. I think it keeps them strong, but prevents him from shield grenading since he will get dizzy too. Also, I recommend you increase the damage output to compensate for the knockback decrease. :)

Nair should be some type of sex kick.

Dair should be modded so that only 1 kick comes out and that kick can be modded to do meteor attacks.

Also, Solid Snake is a clone of this guy.
 

Eternal Yoshi

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Yup. It's VERY ironic.

The Boss can't be done until model hacking comes around.

As for Big Boss,

Bair doesn't need to be changed. It's fine.

I recommend the C3 do LESS knockback than C4, but MORE damage. It makes it more safe for recovery. Also more fair considering it'll be a bit faster.
 

colored blind

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 7, 2008
Messages
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Location
Purdue/West Lafayette
The Boss can't be done until model hacking comes around.
Why? She wears a skintight suit like ZSS, albeit with a bunch of buckles and stuff. And you can definitely make parts of ZSS' hair transparent so we can get pretty close to her haircut. Take a few of her animations, like the laser pistol and super scope, and she could work. But that's neither here nor there.

I think being more creative with Big Boss' moves and their animations would go a long way towards making him more unique. A long lasting Nair using only the first/second kick as a sex kick would be neat. The third hit of Nair could be used as a Uair. His melee attacks being quick with low knockback, but still able to be combo'd into each other using crouch canceling would go a long way towards recreating the CQC techniques of MGS3 yet still being very different from Solid Snake. Using the same animations for every move would would make him more...clone-y, even though PSA allows much more than that.
 

Jiangjunizzy

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 9, 2006
Messages
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Location
irvine, CA
guys if you want The Boss, that's fine.. but please don't talk about it in here. I'm sorry I'm not making what you guys want, but if I was going to make the boss I would rather do her correctly, meaning I'd wait til model hacking is out. Big Boss just made sense to me because he's well.. just Snake with different clothes.

anyways, the .pac is coming along really nicely. I'll come out with a beta sooner or later.
 

Mr.-0

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 26, 2008
Messages
986
whoa. This project looks awesome 0_o. I have a feeling that along with roy this is the only haked character that even has a slight chance to make it into brawl+ tournies. On a side note, I like the fact that he's not gonna be an exact clone of snake.
 

Adetque

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 21, 2009
Messages
149
Side B and Neutral B should be switched imo. And for the backpack move you could make it like dancing blade where if you press up-B after using it it takes out one grenade, Side-B takes out another, etc...
 

Jiangjunizzy

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irvine, CA
I'm now working on his B moves. I was wondering if you guys had any ideas; I'm completely open for suggestion.

I'd like to have a different move for his upB, like jump, or a diving attack, or something. What do you guys think?

Also, I was able to get rid of his mine planting (dsmash) and actually gave him a normal down smash.
 

Eggman

Smash Apprentice
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Oct 15, 2007
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Hrm...a UpB for him would be hard to think of...

Edit - I know this probably sounds hard to do, but I know that Big Boss uses the Fulton Recovery System in Portable Ops. Maybe work in something like that?
 

Eternal Yoshi

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I wanted his up and B to be a prop that can't be done yet. I wanted him to have one of the floating platforms that he can equip and have it behave like ROB's upB. I wish I could find a picture.

I'm referring to those hovering platforms the enemies used during the last part of the motorcylcle chase in MGS3.
 

Eggman

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I wanted his up and B to be a prop that can't be done yet. I wanted him to have one of the floating platforms that he can equip and have it behave like ROB's upB. I wish I could find a picture.

I'm referring to those hovering platforms the enemies used during the last part of the motorcylcle chase in MGS3.
THAT would be awesome
 

DeadX

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 19, 2009
Messages
251
sounds awesome.
one of the better additional characters by far.
 

Mr.-0

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 26, 2008
Messages
986
His up b shoudl be like a cross between dolphin slash and falcon dive: he rockets up at an angle ( albeit farter than marth ) and then if he hits somebody, he could grab them ( they'd be floating in the air momentarily ) and knee them very very quickly so there not floating for long and then immediatly footstool them. It would also have armor like snake's upb. Or it could just be a longer version of marth's upb with snake armor and then if he gets somebody do a similair to falcon dive animation type thingy. It's not very big boss like, though. I also see him having a deadly grapple shot tether thingy, maybe. And also, to go with his survivil thing, he can make two C3's maybe. ANd I like the backpack thing, but don't make it in a set order or like dancing blade, then people will just spam itm to get rations. And the shotgun sounds nice for regular b, though I think a tranquilizer stun gun would be nice too. Just suggestions, btw.
 

cookieM0Nster

Smash Champion
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If you edit the up B, there wont be any momentum, just the animation.

Trust me.

Keep Up B the same, or else Big Boss wont have any recovery.
 

Jiangjunizzy

Smash Lord
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I'm working on it off and on; when I can figure out some things I'll let you guys know. Currently, I'm trying to figure out how to generate an item simply for visual sake, but I'm not sure how to do this.
 

mofo_

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fair could be a item throw animation ( or grenade toss animation ) like sheiks fair
nair could be one of the nair kicks but only one and sexed
dair could one of the dair kick but only one and spikes and slower start up
uair use part of uthrow animatioon to do somethin cool??
dsmash could be a planted pitfall and can plant 2
for neutral b shotgun, make you can make it so that you only shoot like 7 shells, and then you have to take the time to reload.....
 

Eggman

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I'm working on it off and on; when I can figure out some things I'll let you guys know. Currently, I'm trying to figure out how to generate an item simply for visual sake, but I'm not sure how to do this.
Well, as long as you keep trying and don't give up :)

I'm really excited about this. Not only as a MGS3 fan, but as a Brawl player. No offense to anyone who has done this, but most of the PSA fighters so far just seem like everyone picked their favorite character and made them broken or added elements to all their moves :ohwell: This actually has the possibility of being a completely different character. Go Jiangjunizzy, go!
 

cookieM0Nster

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Well, as long as you keep trying and don't give up :)

I'm really excited about this. Not only as a MGS3 fan, but as a Brawl player. No offense to anyone who has done this, but most of the PSA fighters so far just seem like everyone picked their favorite character and made them broken or added elements to all their moves :ohwell: This actually has the possibility of being a completely different character. Go Jiangjunizzy, go!
This is partly true. Almost everyone's first character ended up being their favorite, for the most part. However, some people, such as Jiang, thought of a character that would be awesome, without automatically choosing their favorite character.
 

Mr.-0

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 26, 2008
Messages
986
Does anyone else think it's weird that if I could I would make clones of myself ( the natural way like as in MGS, just with female cells that were sriped of there DNA etc. and stuff, not going into more detail ) and make sure that I had identical twins but, just like in MGS, one would have my dominant genes, and the other my ressesive genes. Than i'd have another clone 9 months later , same way, but with my same mixture of both. Weird, huh?

On a topic related note, it would be absolutely amazing if we could get all of the snakes ( like the ones on mount snakemore ) into brawl. that would be amazing cool awesomeish and stuff. So, in order for that to happen, we need naked snake. Don't give up, jianjungzzy!
 
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