Bidou Tech!

[The_Woebegone_Jackal]

Basically it creates more control over your character. My question is, does the Samus community specifically see this as useful for her and if so what kind of possibilities could this open up?

 

[DungeonMaster]

That sliding spot-dodge looks awesome, replaces our roll?
Sliding spot-dodge -> Up-tilt is my immediate though.

 

[Afro Smash]

-_ellipsis_- has been working on this a lot im pretty sure

 

[JAZZ_]

yeah just watch -_ellipsis_- videos on youtube, youll see Bidou in action.

 

[The_Woebegone_Jackal]

After having messed with this a bit, I'm really liking how well it synergizes with jab1 and f-tilt spacing. That alone seems useful enough to bother experimenting further. Other than that though I'm struggling to see what other practical uses it may have for Samus beyond making PP CS punishes much more consistent on my part.

 

[JAZZ_]

After having messed with this a bit, I'm really liking how well it synergizes with jab1 and f-tilt spacing. That alone seems useful enough to bother experimenting further. Other than that though I'm struggling to see what other practical uses it may have for Samus beyond making PP CS punishes much more consistent on my part.

Watch -_ellipsis_- play. You'll see utilization

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

Welp, another tech I won't be able to do. I can't even do perfect pivot consistently.

 

[-_ellipsis_-]

I've been using bidou since December/January now (i can't really remember lol) and it's not going to change Samus's game entirely or make you auto win by any stretch. But samus does get some neat tricks with it.

When used correctly I can get it to enhance my footsies game and get neat microspacing going on similar to how melee's dash dancing works. Combining the max range of a PP slide with crouch slide's hurtbox manipulation can net some interesting whiffs and punishes, and it's very useful against opponent's aerials with big arcing hitboxes like Sheik's or Marth's fair, or opponents with shorter limbs. I also found something cool that Smash Corner didn't cover. I'll post a vid here:

I'm also working on more utilization for crouch cancelling opponent's attacks and understanding the mechanic better. Give me a couple months and I'll have a clean doc explaining all that.

Here's a couple examples of my bidou plays:

 

[XxBlazingSpeedxX]

I do feel if we could implement the sliding spot dodge it could help us out quite a bit, especially with the ability to punish after the dodge against some moves.

 

[The_Woebegone_Jackal]

-_ellipsis_-
That implementation seems very practical, and the shield dropping discovery of yours is incredible!

 

[Shuckle_SSB]

It's useful to fully optimize how Samus CAN be played, but in the end you'll HAVE to have great skill to back it all up. Bidoof is useless if you're not applying the rest of Samus's toolkit. So in the end, it can help but not game-changing. But hey, maybe I'm wrong and someone can prove me wrong.

 

[Ampheras]

I started using it just today, and I feel awesome about the easy perfect pivot. I think PP offers a lot to Samus gameplay. For a while I'm having trouble with dropping L to perform specials, because they are so important in our game, like UpB Oos and Chargeshot, but I think in a metter of time I will get used to it (and the game will feel more pleasent, more buttons to press xD)

I'm also looking forward to this Sliding spotdodge, I think it combined with Dtilt can be a good pressure reliever for us

 

[The Butt Rumbler]

As much as I am interested in Bidou, I'm personally not gonna use it. Reason being is that in order to use Bidou efficiently, I feel that you must have mastered the character already that you'll be using Bidou with. I say that because having fully down things like fundamentals and core aspects of your character are needed before anything else. I view Bidou as something like endgame tech, where it becomes improving all the smaller details of your gameplay and your character to your advantage. Kinda like upgrading your raid gear in World of Warcraft. Even if the upgrade is minimal, it still helps in the long run.

 

[-_ellipsis_-]

The Butt Rumbler I'm inclined to disagree with you, by reason that it's a control scheme that cannot prevent you from mastering fundamentals while you use it, nor can it automatically complement mastered fundamentals like putting on an extra ring that gives you +10 damage. It requires relearning a control scheme, relearning neutral, relearning basic tech just to get used to it.

 

[Afro Smash]

Somone on reddit did this with bidou

 

[Hark17ball]

I may have to try this just for fun.
(Also wanted to see who my FE character was)

 

[DungeonMaster]

I tried so many times for the combo video to do instant-ledge-wall-jump -> Up-air land on stage reversed -> F-air -> F-air and get the whole thing to register on the combo counter.
Crazy hard and then with this control scheme, trivial.

However I personally can't sacrifice my c-stick for smashes. So the c-stick variant is what I'm going to test out.
I know a lot of you guys use c-stick for attack, but I never converted, all tech and combos aside if there's one thing I can't tolerate it's missing a smash attack input. I just can't... tolerate... it...

(April 1st and I feel suddenly younger?)

 

[NamelessHunter]

Pro controller looks to be the best for this. Is there a way to get ridges on a pro controller? Without ridges I have trouble with tilting the stick in the right direction.

 

[Shuckle_SSB]

Pro controller looks to be the best for this. Is there a way to get ridges on a pro controller? Without ridges I have trouble with tilting the stick in the right direction.

Not unless you do some modifications, but in that case your controller would be tournament ILLEGAL for the most part.

 

[Clock Tower Prison]

As much as I am interested in Bidou, I'm personally not gonna use it. Reason being is that in order to use Bidou efficiently, I feel that you must have mastered the character already that you'll be using Bidou with. I say that because having fully down things like fundamentals and core aspects of your character are needed before anything else. I view Bidou as something like endgame tech, where it becomes improving all the smaller details of your gameplay and your character to your advantage. Kinda like upgrading your raid gear in World of Warcraft. Even if the upgrade is minimal, it still helps in the long run.

If you do plan on getting to "endgame" you should start using it now, if only for the sole reason of having to learn a new control scheme you may as well "level up" knowing how to do it rather than taking more time after you hit "cap"

 

[KayJay]

Pro controller looks to be the best for this. Is there a way to get ridges on a pro controller? Without ridges I have trouble with tilting the stick in the right direction.

The Classic Controller Pro has Ridges on both sticks and it has 4 digital shoulder buttons.

 

[NamelessHunter]

The Classic Controller Pro has Ridges on both sticks and it has 4 digital shoulder buttons.

Thanks. Just picked up a used one for 14. Should work perfectly.

 

[moofpi]

Thanks. Just picked up a used one for 14. Should work perfectly.

http://hyperkinlab.com/procube-controller-black/

There's also this. I was hoping to get one before this bidou business anyway, but this could be perfect.

 

[Petroklos]

Tried a bit of Bidoof a few days ago. Makes PPivoting and (Extended)DDancing almost TOO easy. On the other hand it messes up my reflexive inputs too much though to be useful yet. I'll need to modify the control scheme that MySmashCorner shows to resemble my original more but even with that, no aerials or tilts on the CStick confuse me too much.

 

[DungeonMaster]

I mentioned this in KayJay's lab thread - but I think we can sliding spot dodge without the need for bidou or even good perfect pivot skills (I can't PP worth a damn).

I'm using a wii up pro, and simply left stick to dash -> smash the left stick down + shield.

I've been practising for a couple of hours and it's quitie consistent.

It could be that I'm somehow, because of my specific controller, inputting a PP, so it would be good if someone else were to attempt the AT to confirm.
I've done the bidou sliding spot-dodge and the distance is actually slightly smaller than the no-bidou control scheme, so it could be a different AT altogether.

 

[Xygonn]

So, regarding button layout and grip.

I have been working on bidou and my setup is as follows (GCC) :

L: Shield
A: attack
B: jump
X: special
Y: grab
C-stick: special

I hold the gamecube controller normally in my left hand with my right thumb on C-stick, index finger on b, middle on a, and ring finger on x. I tried to do the face button layout with special on b but I found that holding b with the index finger and manipulating the C stick was difficult. I lay the controller on my right thigh for stability. This is basically forgoing the right 2 shoulder buttons with everything available on the face buttons. I think this is a much easier grip on GCC than traditional styles. I call this "Arcade" grip.

DungeonMaster could be a dash into run transition slide. We get a decent amount of slide out of that in our usmash.

 

[Petroklos]

So, regarding button layout and grip.

I have been working on bidou and my setup is as follows (GCC) :

L: Shield
A: attack
B: jump
X: special
Y: grab
C-stick: special

I hold the gamecube controller normally in my left hand with my right thumb on C-stick, index finger on b, middle on a, and ring finger on x. I tried to do the face button layout with special on b but I found that holding b with the index finger and manipulating the C stick was difficult. I lay the controller on my right thigh for stability. This is basically forgoing the right 2 shoulder buttons with everything available on the face buttons. I think this is a much easier grip on GCC than traditional styles. I call this "Arcade" grip.

DungeonMaster could be a dash into run transition slide. We get a decent amount of slide out of that in our usmash.

For a moment I had the Pro Controller's layout in mind and got VERY confused. I'll steal that from you and try it out.

 

[Xygonn]

For a moment I had the Pro Controller's layout in mind and got VERY confused. I'll steal that from you and try it out.

Layout doesn't work for pro controller Does work on CC Pro or regular CC and gives 2 shoulder buttons on the left.

 

[Petroklos]

Layout doesn't work for pro controller Does work on CC Pro or regular CC and gives 2 shoulder buttons on the left.

Yea, I got that after a couple of minutes of pure confusion.

Tried it, not sure if I like it. Makes my right hand hurt and tired way too fast... If I decide to move on with Bidoof I'll keep your grip in mind (and/or in use).

 

[Xygonn]

V

 

[Clock Tower Prison]

Xygonn you are either crazy or revolutionary but only time will tell.

 

[NamelessHunter]

What are people's opinions on SHADs vs Sliding Spot Dodges? Currently I am thinking I want SHADs when spacing is important and Sliding Spot Dodges (PPSDs?) when being airborn could be disadvantagous. Maybe it's as simple as aerial vs tilt? Or is one just flat out better than the other?

 

[Xygonn]

What are people's opinions on SHADs vs Sliding Spot Dodges? Currently I am thinking I want SHADs when spacing is important and Sliding Spot Dodges (PPSDs?) when being airborn could be disadvantagous. Maybe it's as simple as aerial vs tilt? Or is one just flat out better than the other?

Sliding spot dodge gives you some stuff because FAF is 6 frames faster. Lets you catch a few things SHAD won't. Gives you immediate access to ftilt which tech chases into charge shot for the KO.

SHAD is much easier to execute and much more flexible. You also still get KO confirms of uair, or straight KOs off nair and bair. You can also bait an "empty landing" from SHAD with CS if they have been punishing your SHAD.