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Bi-Planar Play

HideousBeing

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 21, 2007
Messages
733
Location
Escondido, CA
I had a thought that Brawl might feature something I'll call Bi-Planar Play. The idea is that each stage has two fields of play. Here's what I mean. Now, instead of a sidestep dodge, it would be a planar switch. You would do it, and you would step back to the second plain of play. Here, anyone on the first plain would be unable to attack you. Basically, it would be adding almost a semblance of depth or 3-Dness to the game, but not quite. It wouldn't be like SoulCalII, where you can avoid attacks by circling your opponent. You could just switch to the secondary plain of play, which would be a little further away from the primary plain. Characters could have attacks that affect both plains. For example, Link's spin attack could still not be avoided by the sidestep- it would hit both plains. As well as the planar swith, there could be an attack that you do to switch plains. Get behind someone in the secondary plain, and return to the primary plain with an attack of some sort.

The terrain could change with the plains too. Maybe your standing on a platform, and you do a planar switch- the platform is narrow, so you drop off on the secondary plain. There would also be areas where you could not do a planar switch, because there is a wall directly behind you. At such areas, the secondary plane would have a boundary where the wall is- where you could wall tech, wall jump, etc.

Below I have a couple of 3D images I modeled for better understanding:





So, these pictures show the two fields or "plains" of play I am describing. The transparent strips represent the 2-D fields of play. We can see that character B on the primary plain cannot do a plain switch, because there is a wall behind him. We can also see that this wall serves as terrain on the secondary plain for character A. Character A could jump up onto the block. Character B cannot interact with it, because it is not in his plain. If character A were to jump up onto the block, and plain switch, he would fall to where character B is. I hope those visual aids help.

So this would lead to some weird possibilities. Imagine if the edges of a certain stage were at different spots on the separate plains. You would have to edgehog the right edge. Also, would they have to include arial plain switches? Othewise, if the stage has a base platform that only spans one plain, an accidental plain switch would mean instant death. Or they could just avoid that scenario. Also, the developers would have to define appropriate hit lag, or rather, "switch" lag settings, or the move would be a concrete way to dodge always. You would get an imbalanced pattern in which your opponent performs an attack, you plain switch and return with a plain switch attack to punish. Maybe they could even keep sidestep dodges in. You would return after your sidestep as always, but anyone on the other plain could hit you while you're "invincible" on the initial plain. Also, there would have to be a clear way to tell which plain a character is on. You couldn't just keep track of how many times they've toggled the move. It would have to be obvious somehow. Otherwise, two players could easily lose track which plain they are on. So, thoughts?
 

Soodey

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 16, 2006
Messages
169
Yeah, this has been discussed before i believe, and your argument is convincing but, in my oppinion, we wont see it in brawl. would be interesting if it wont distrupt balance
 

pdk

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 20, 2006
Messages
1,320
instead of SC3 use a game that doesn't suck for your example of "bi-planar play," namely...



which happens to have implemented this feature almost exactly as you described back in 1998 with some additions of its own; coincidence?
 

CutMet

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 21, 2007
Messages
265
Location
Tucson AZ
I saw this in a game before, to win you simply had to switch planes constantly and spam homing projectiles, it wasn't that fun. I think it is a good idea, but not for Smash. Something I noticed in some of Brawl's pictures though is that it looks oddly 3D maybe it is just me. I really wouldn't want this to replace the spot dodge, it is just to complicated.
 

Sariku

Smash Master
Joined
May 24, 2007
Messages
4,384
Location
Biloxi, Mississippi
I almost love the idea to thinking about it, espcially with the diagrams, but it would be alittle too complex for the game. Sorry. But I would like to see that in another fightin game, but not smash.
 

generalgrievous

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jun 3, 2007
Messages
5
It's really thought out and all, but to me it sounds a little like Super Paper Mario, not that I have a problem with that. Also, I think that people would abuse it and it would take away from the overall smash experience.
 

Chaotic Yoshi

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 20, 2001
Messages
1,384
Location
canada
If I could rep your posts hideous, I would.

I thought of something similar because of the recent screenshots from smashbros.com. Some of them have that feeling of "bi-planar play" as you titled it. But it still feels a little farfetched and may just be the result of doctored screenshots for specific poses.

Assuming they were leaning towards that, implementing this into the game would be quite a task especially when they stated they want an easier control scheme.
 

SSJ4Kazuki

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 13, 2005
Messages
2,605
Location
UK (Edinburgh, Scotland)
I saw this in a game before, to win you simply had to switch planes constantly and spam homing projectiles, it wasn't that fun. I think it is a good idea, but not for Smash. Something I noticed in some of Brawl's pictures though is that it looks oddly 3D maybe it is just me. I really wouldn't want this to replace the spot dodge, it is just to complicated.
CutMet has it right, Youtube/tourney matches would become boring SoBs to watch.
 

Zeela12

Smash Ace
Joined
May 19, 2007
Messages
588
Location
Longmont, CO
ya, defiantly too complicated in my opinoin, very good use/step towards a full 3D game, but too much mindtricks for now I guess, keeping it simple like before would be best.
 

HideousBeing

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 21, 2007
Messages
733
Location
Escondido, CA
This idea was gay when I first heard about it,and still is...


The search function works wonders,doesn't it?


Here is the scenario which can completely break this.

Me:Fox

You:Bowser

Me:Shoots Lasers at you*Stage Shifts*

Bowser:*Stage Shifts*

Me:*Shifts back*

*Eventually when time is over*

What do you know,I won by doing nothing but stage shifting for 8 min. =/
Oop. I would never have guessed anyone else would make a thread like this. Not to mention, what would I search for? That thread is ancient ancient anyway.
 

Cubelarooso

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 19, 2007
Messages
1,614
Location
[Hide my Location]
I LOVE that idea!
... As long as it's only implemented in one stage (Mushroom Kingdom III), and functions as in the source game (Super Mario Bros. 3)!
 

Spirithawk

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 24, 2006
Messages
85
Thats an interesting idea, but like people said, it could be abused very easily. Maybe a way to avoid that would be to create specific spots on the stage where you could switch planes, rather than replacing the sidestep. I don't remember to well from when I was watching my friend play, but I think Paper Mario does it in this way. So what I mean is maybe at 2-4 specific spots, you can press A or something and switch planes. This also means some stages can have it, some won't, so people who don't like it don't have to play it.

Also, this would probably only work if the terrains of the different planes were different.
 
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