Better way to utilize Pac-Man's grab?

[KirbyCheatFurbyMeat]

I always miss it when going into a dash and it's really bugging me. When's the best time to use Pac-Man's grab, and what throw do you think is the best to use? I think his down throw's pretty efficient.

 

[Firedemon0]

Pac-man's dash grab is horrible. Your best bet to catch people with throws are punishes on slower moves, catching someone air dodging into the ground, or you can also use it to catch spot dodge spammers. The range is deceptive because of the wi-fi bars, but it works like other tether grabs, just lingers a bit after it comes out. Its max range seems to be 3 bars in.

 

[Nu~]

It's amazing out of a perfect pivot for characters that like to approach from the ground with grabs and dash attacks like captain falcon. It's also amazing against spin dash approaches.

 

[dragontamer]

PacMan has one of the best pummels in the game at 3.125% damage per hit. Be sure to pummel a few times before DThrowing.

 

[Pacack]

The grab's not bad like many people say it is. It's just super, super strange and it's not really comparable to any other grabs in the game. Think of it as an extended and disjointed regular grab with a lot of endlag, rather than a straight up tether, which is really not what it is.

Use it to punish missed moves with lots of endlag or with medium to hard reads on movement. They're especially good for punishing long rolls and short spotdodges, since the grab comes out noticeably after the grab is pressed and lasts a relatively long time.

Don't rely on it too much, but do not ignore its uses entirely like so many have. In the end, it's a bit character-specific. Learn who it works on in what situations and use your other fantastic punishing tools in its place when you can't reliably grab. (For example, a down smash is also a very good tools for predictable rolls of many lengths since it covers both sides of you, and forward smash is good for medium-duration spotdodges if you read it right.)


As for what grabs to use, pummel is fantastic, and use it a bit before throwing when you can. General guide is:

Down Throw: Go-to for damage. I love this one.

Back Throw: Go-to for killing or throwing offstage (does a little more damage than down throw, but you shouldn't prematurely stale this one if you can avoid it.)

Up Throw: Situational, but it's good at forcing opponents (especially those with weak air games) into Pac-Man's home field.

Forward Throw: This throw is incredibly weird to use, since it doesn't really set up for anything guaranteed (or even near-guaranteed on some characters), but it's useful against heavies and when you're facing towards the edge and want an opponent offstage.

 

[Rashid]

Up Throw can kill at very high %s (like 150%+? maybe less with rage). It's great if your back is far from the ledge and you just want to end that late stock. Best to experiment with kill ranges on different stages.

 

[~Rainbow Mika]

Up-Throw Kills Diddy at 160% on the top of battlefield.
On FD, it kills at 195%+ lol.

Don't rely too much on his grab, is very situational (punish dash attack happy players or a missed smash), but you can do interesting stuff (like dthrow>orange/apple or i think it can open a ftilt lock at mid percents).

 

[Po3T]

I am no frame guru so I will try to make this as descriptive as possible.

So piggy backing off of Pacack, Pac-Man's throw is very interesting: Two annoyances is that if you are near him (Like really close, the point where you can push him back by walking towards him) and he tries to grab, he won't grab you.
The last Three (waves) in his grab will not grab either.

The trick to his grab is the deceiving range, a lot of people get caught just by mistiming a spot dodge or roll. The timing of spot dodges has to be perfect. if not, you are looking at an easy, inevitable grab

I believe he can even grab through his hydrant (Someone might want to check that, I remember doing it once but could just been a fluke)

As far as uses, I am still learning. His D-Throw to Key (or jump key) is good.

 

[BSP]

Gonna push back on this some.

The grab's not bad like many people say it is. It's just super, super strange and it's not really comparable to any other grabs in the game. Think of it as an extended and disjointed regular grab with a lot of endlag, rather than a straight up tether, which is really not what it is.

I think it's pretty bad. I think we can say that, without a doubt, the mechanics of Pac-Man's grab:

1: let other characters get away with well and poorly spaced aerials on his shield. Most people can get a jab or tilt out before our grab comes out. Pac-Man can't consistently respond with any offensive pressure, so they can keep doing it for free.

2:Neuter his neutral game. Since up B only works when you're right on top of the opponent, smart people will realize that running up to Pac-Man -> Shield -> Doing some mixup is pretty effective because he can't beat your shield without moving towards you, which you can react to. Likewise, if Pac-Man is running at you, throwing out a fast, quick hitbox is very effective because you know he can't shield and retaliate like a normal character. I think his ground pressure is greatly lowered because of this.

Use it to punish missed moves with lots of endlag or with medium to hard reads on movement. They're especially good for punishing long rolls and short spotdodges, since the grab comes out noticeably after the grab is pressed and lasts a relatively long time.

You can punish high ending lag moves with anything. Yeah, you can get grabs with good reads with Pac-Man, but the risk:reward is nearly never in his favor. If you grab them, you'll get a pummel and a throw for decent damage and stage positioning, or a KO at very high %. If you miss, you are getting grabbed yourself, getting blasted with a projectile, getting smash attacked, or KO'd if you're at 90%+, less for some characters.

Most rolls in this game are really good. I've stopped trying to catch rolls with Pac-Man's grab, it's just too risky. Some spotdodges can also dodge the beam if they are timed correctly, meaning you're going to eat a charged Fsmash to the face. It's not worth the risk imo.

Don't rely on it too much, but do not ignore its uses entirely like so many have. In the end, it's a bit character-specific. Learn who it works on in what situations and use your other fantastic punishing tools in its place when you can't reliably grab. (For example, a down smash is also a very good tools for predictable rolls of many lengths since it covers both sides of you, and forward smash is good for medium-duration spotdodges if you read it right.)

Of course. Pac-Man's throws are pretty damaging. I try to use them whenever I can, but the danger of doing so is very real. To do any punish option that isn't OOS, you have to factor in shield drop too, and our OOS shield stuff either has bad range (Nair, Up B) or has range but is weak and harder to hit with (Bair, Uair, Fair). If you want to do a non OOS punish, shield drop adds 7 frames or so, and others could shield by then, or they may jab you before you hit them.

I'm pretty negative about his grab, but the positives just aren't worth the downsides to me. Heck, I think the grab is intentionally awful just so that Pac-Man doesn't destroy the cast. I didn't even mention the dead zones that the thing has. The whole beam doesn't grab, your dash grab will whiff at point blank...sigh.

Agree with everything you said about the throws though.

 

[Jords2Good]

Pac-mans grab is a bit risky but you gotta know when to use it, I'm pretty decent catching people with his grabs, its basically just punishing the opponent but you just gotta be really really quick. I mainly use it when people run towards me, after perfect shielding and a few other specific moves by other characters like sonic's spin dash attacks.

although the bars that show up is very misleading, thats what I hate about it, the bars should not extend that far if its not gonna catch anybody. His grab would actually be alot better if he can grab that far.

 

[fromundaman]

His grab IS bad, but it has uses, and his throws are amazing.

At mid %s, a missed tech on Dthrow allows us to jab lock with Fair, which leads into another guaranteed grab (depends on the character; the bigger they are the larger the window this works for. For someone like D3 you can pretty much do this between 10 and 80%).

The way I set up grabs TBH is only on moves I know I can punish OoS (Like Kirby Dair which usually can't be shieldgrabbed by non-tether characters) or if I have something that traps them into shielding. For example doing a jab-launched hydrant near the ledge then running up and grabbing is great since your grab will combo into the hydrant behind you and the hydrant punishes both a roll and a punish on a whiffed grab.
Melon can serve the same purpose, as can some of the gushed fruits.

Since the hitbox stays out a bit, it's also great in teams for doing combos into his grab. I've told/shown you guys the infinite my Kirby partner and I do in teams thanks to Pacman's grab.

 

[BSP]

Up-Throw Kills Diddy at 160% on the top of battlefield.
On FD, it kills at 195%+ lol.

Don't rely too much on his grab, is very situational (punish dash attack happy players or a missed smash), but you can do interesting stuff (like dthrow>orange/apple or i think it can open a ftilt lock at mid percents).

Non rage U throw kills pretty late. Rage helps a good amount though. When you're at high %, Uthrow KOs much faster., though it s still not amazing or anything.

 

[Pepto_Bismol]

I'd say the best way to use his grab would be OoS or when you see an opportunity for a punish. Would definitely avoid using it as an approach option.

 

[COLINBG]

You have to look at what the grab offers and think accordingly.

- It has a lot of ending lag
- It has decent range (the animation is misleading, but it's still decent).
- It stays active for a long time so you can punish spot dodges (you shouldn't count on that, but it means people can randomly run into your grab, too).
- The further the opponent is, the longer it takes to grab him. If he's directly in front of you, it grabs immediately.

your dash grab will whiff at point blank...sigh.

I always miss it when going into a dash

It does miss, but only if you run into the other character before grabbing. If you press the grab button a few frames before hitting the other character, you will be able to perform a dash grab at (almost) point blank. It's really not hard to do, and doesn't noticeably limit your options, so it's hardly a relevant flaw.

By looking at this only, you see that it's a completely different grab from most of the other characters. Link's or Samus' grabs work in a similar way, and are probably the closest to Pac's.

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The pummel is strong. It's slow, but you can and should be using it to rack up damages. Grabbing alone means you have 3/6/9/any other multiple of 3 depending of the percent + minimum 5% from the throw, free damages. This is not negligible.

The throws are not that good, in the sense that the follow-ups are either non-existant, situational (depending on teching/DI from the opponent), or not worth it (either you don't do much damage/knockback and you're better off charging fruits, or it's unsafe if you miss). You don't really have any true combo you can abuse like other characters can *cough* Diddy ZSS *cough*. Don't get me wrong, I'm NOT saying you can't follow up form the throws, I'm just saying you can't do it as reliably as many other characters.

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- Dthrow (10%): Your go-to throw. If you don't have any reason to use the others, use this one. It's also the throw that gives you the most follow-up possibilities.

- Bthrow (11%): You can kill with it, but need rage, need the opponent at a high percent, and need him not to be too heavy. Still a kill option to keep in mind. It's the throw that does the most damage. You can Bthrow and try to Bair, which can kill early, so that's cool. And Pac is pretty good at gimping in general, them's the facts.

These are the two throws you want to use the most.

- Uthrow (5%): I don't really know the purpose of this one. You can Uthrow to Uair at early percents, I guess.

- Fthrow (6%): Like Bthrow, but worse. If you can't Bthrow use this one. I guess.

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Because of the drawbacks of the grab, and because Pac is not a combo-heavy character, you should be using the grab in only one situation: when you can. Your gameplan doesn't revolve around it; you have other effective ways to rack up damage (do not rely on Throw -> X aerial combos to do so), and don't need it to kill. This means you shouldn't fish for the grabs, but grab when it's safe to do so. If the opponent does a punishable thing, you can go for a grab (but a smash might be better if you can). Pac's grab's primary fonction is getting the opponent off you, and doing a bit of damage at the same time.