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Best Buy Demo Discussion - What do you think of Kirby in Smash 4?

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Krynxe

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This thread is to discuss your thoughts on Kirby from the playable demo at Best Buy. Please visit the other characters boards to discuss different characters.

---

With the playable demos on Wednesday, June 11 and Saturday, June 14, smashers who couldn't attend e3 will have the chance to experience Super Smash Brothers for the Wii U hands on for the first time.


- For information, Click here.
- To find a location near you, Click here.
 

Raziek

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Courtesy of @Croi :

Kirby:
Back throw feels nerfed. Frame data is really bad but cooldown is low. Can't follow it up with anything.
Inhale feels nerfed slightly.
Bair is buffed; comes out faster and sourspot hits harder.
Shield is larger.
Final Cutter damage/knockback is buffed; the shockwave is *drastically* nerfed, presumably to keep scrubs from spamming it online.
Stone has longer startup but is otherwise the same.
Fair feels slightly buffed; less frames in-between each kick.
Dair feels nerfed, smaller hitbox.
Grab game in general feels stronger, but it might just be the animations making it feel more rewarding for landing one.
 

Altais

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It looks, this time, like Kirby's down special has ample knockback even when he performs it on the ground. To mine memory, in past games this move was only dangerous if Kirby used it whilst airborne. This was definitely a smart change, if I must say so mineself. If you want proof of the change, watch the following video at 2:20. During the Sudden Death, Kirby will use said move to KO Mario.

 

t!MmY

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The Best Buy event I attended was the standard 2-minute Free-for-All with Items active. They gave everyone two consecutive games in a row. I spent my first one using each move to get a feel for how they felt and a general idea of any changes. The second game I played I played to win. I used Kirby exclusively for both of my games.

Here are my thoughts:

Standard Attack
Very similiar to the usual Vulcan Jab, but with an extra finisher to knock opponents away. This fixes the problem Kirby has had in the past where he could get punished by the opponent immediately following HitStun (Marth's F-smash, lol). If you hold the Attack Button down Kirby will repeat the first punsh indefinitely, the same as in Brawl.

Dash Attack
This is the same Dash Attack as seen in Brawl, but I am happy to say all the hits from Kirby's Dash Attack connect easily. There doesn't appear to be much of an option to follow-up after the Dash Attack because the last hit sends the opponent away with a fairly strong knockback. I only used it once so I cannot comment much on how strong the knockback was, but might be about on par with his F-tilt.

* * * * * *
F-tilt
Kirby's F-tilt hasn't changed much even after four games now. I believe there is more power behind the kick, so Kirby might be netting KOs with this again. As a generl idea of power, Kirby's F-tilt in Brawl KO'd about 180% depending on the weight - in SSB4 it might KO closer to 130% - 150% (hitting from a short distance from the boundary, such as one end of Battlefield).

D-tilt
I didn't hit anyone with this, but when I used it during the test round it felt like Brawl's D-tilt. I cannot confirm if it still causes a trip or not. If it does, it could potentially be a great way to hit-confirm into Smash Attacks to net KOs depending on how forced trips would work.

U-tilt
At first I thought this was nerfed in speed, but after testing a few of them out both whiffed and on opponents I'm going to say it pretty much felt like Brawl Kirby's U-tilt. The launches and juggles in this game felt a little different than in any other Smash game, so I will say it feels like the combo potential is there, but I don't know to what extent. It was probably modified to keep Kirby from getting *too* many U-tilts on fast fallers but to retain it's usefulness in setting up combos.

F-smash
I'm not even going to bother comparing this thing to Melee's F-smash because the difference is like night and day. When compared to Brawl's F-smash, I would say the start-up was reduced so that it hit faster. I would estimate it hitting closer to 8-frames now. I'm not entirely sure, but the 'sour-spot' from Brawl seemed to be mitigated so that it's way more likely to get a good, strong hit, but that might be from the faster hit frames.

D-smash
I don't have much to comment on this. I didn't hit anyone with it, but it's pretty much the same 'propeller' kick that Kirby's been using for over a decade now. I'll have to try this out again on Saturday because I would like to see if it got any better (I liked the duration it had in Melee to catch spot dodges, and it could have used a little more power in Brawl).

U-smash
There's still a horribly weak sour-spot on this attack when Kirby hits when the kick drops behind him. The good news is that it isn't nearly as bad as it was in Brawl/Melee so that you won't necessarily give your opponents free hits on you when you land it - it's about on par with Project: M's U-smash sour-spot. The U-smash itself isn't changed much, it's still used as a strong vertical launcher as expected from the standard U-smash.

* * * * * *
Kirby's Aerial Attacks were awesome. I felt like they were polished up, made more useful, and became more effective overall.

N-air
I will have to give this one more testing, but it felt like the problems it had in Brawl were addressed. I'm going to have to see how it could possibly be used during offense, specifically during combos/pressure, and get back to everyone on this after Saturday. I'm also interested in testing it out off-stage, against various opposing hitboxes, etc.

F-air
Kirby's F-air in SSB was great. In Melee it was garbage. In Brawl it was just underwelming. The main problem with Brawl Kirby's F-air was how akward and difficult it was to use the F-air. The last hit of Brawl Kirby's F-air was decent, but it just took too long to get there and with B-air being an overall better move the F-air just got over-shadowed. In SSB4 the akwardness seemed to be addressed the same way as the Dash Attack by making it easier to land the multi-hitting kicks. Additionally, with the change to the games mechanics, the F-air now has untapped potential! You can Fast Fall and convert to a ground attack such as F-tilt or reversed U-tilt, or you can go for the third kick and send your opponents over the edge. I'm very happy with this attack and cannot wait to use it more when the game launches.

B-air
This move has everything Kirby needs to do work in his battles. The range, power, and utility of this move is all still there, but the sweet-spot feels ... sweeter. I would say it reminds me of the B-air found in SSB which makes me happy.

D-air
The problem with D-air in all itereations of Smash Bros after the first was that the amount of reward you got when actually hitting with the thing was practically not worth it. In Melee you might get something off an L-canceled D-air but it was more likely to get stuffed before it came out, and in Brawl the follow-ups were a gamble. - and let's not even talk about how lackluster the off-stage was with this. But in the SSB4 demo this is all addressed. Successfully pulling off this slow attack on-stage felt like an almost guarenteed advantage or flat-out combo. Off-stage you won't be seeing the awesome Kirby Spike of Doom from 64 days, but you will at least drag your opponents down with you for a good distance with a very solid-hitting multi-attack. I am very pleased with how this looks so far, because I know that balancing this attack can be difficult (shortening the start-up, for instance, can make it very spammy off-stage, increasing the power messes with on-stage options and make it feel 'cheap' in lower level arenas, etc).

* * * * * *
I wasn't very impressed with Kirby's Specials. They felt similar to Brawl's and there really wasn't enough changed about them to get me excited about using them. This isn't to say that they won't be changed later, or that there isn't the chance for something cool to be discovered, but in the short time I had with the game, nothing stellar popped out for me.

Swallow (N-Special)
I believe this comes out faster, much like the speed of a grab. I'm thinking they must have done something about that wonky "gust" hitbox that he had in Brawl. I copied Zelda and he still has his "Young Zelda" hat. I'll keep this one in mind to possibly try out more on Saturday, but ... Man! I just want Sakurai to give Kirby his Abilities found in Super Star one of these days. :*(

Stone (D-Special)
I was not impressed with this attack. It didn't seem especially powerful but it was exceptionally slow. Unless there's more to this than I could intially see (like Armor Frames), then this move is a bust.

Final Cutter (U-special)
I didn't see much of a change in this attack, though the ending lag might not have been as bad. If that's the case, then at least that's something, right? Getting punished for sending out Final Cutter shots was lame.

Hammer (F-Special)
Okay, so this was fun, I'm not going to lie. It's still not necessarily a good move, but it's always great to land on unsuspecting opponents. One thing that was disappointing was the added lag time after an Aerial Hammer. It was a good amount of lag, too.

Okay, so I gotta go, but I'm definitely making plans on making another trip to the Saturday event this weekend! I want to say that already I'm really happy with the game and I can't wait to play more of it!
 

-TAG-

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One of the reasons I barely played Kirby in Brawl was how weird some of his moves felt, particularly the majority of his aerials. But hearing these changes that he's getting gives me more hope of him being a more competent and less wonky fighter.
 

Lord Viper

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Is Hup Canceling still in?
☯ Crap I forgot about that. My memories of Smash Bros are fainter than I realize. T_T

☯ Well I can tell you that if you like Brawl Kirby then you are going to love how fast his moves come out in this game, (except for Air Flip Hammer, I think it doesn't cancel if you land on the ground with it). His Final Smash has an good reach and it connects above him and below him.
 

t!MmY

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So there wasn't much more to write about after my trip to Best Buy on Saturday. This is mostly because the two additional 4-player Free-for-All matches I played were just that much more chaotic than the ones on Wednesday. A couple things I can add on though:

I hit with D-tilt a few times and didn't once get a trip. I felt like the chance of getting a forced trip off these D-tilts would have been very likely if the tripping mechanics of D-tilt were the same as they were in Brawl. In other words, it's unlikely that D-tilt trips anymore, or, at the least, the rules governing Kirby's D-tilt tripping have been modified.

N-air feels buffed, though as I mentioned earlier the matches were more chaotic with more X-bombs and terrain changes, so it's hard for me to say in what way. I know that with the new mechanics N-air will have a better chance of being useful either as a lead or to help string combos together. Aside from that, it's mostly the same as it was in Brawl.

It's much easier to get a Copy on someone because the speed of Swallow felt like it was sped up to more of a Grab's framerate (hits on about frame 6). The cool-down animation was changed which made it felt slower and easier to punish, but chances are it's about the same cool-down as in Brawl considering how slow that thing was. I approve of the change of animation because it gives Kirby more of his Return to Dreamland style.

I tested out the Stone more in hopes of finding something better about it. I don't think there are any Armor Frames on start-up (I got hit out of it right when activating it). It still seemed very weak, especially considering how difficult it is to land. Kirby's F-smash felt like it packed much more power. Unless there's something I didn't find out about this move, or if it doesn't get improved before the final build, it will probably be a poor attack in yet another Smash game.

I got to see Mega Man and Wii Fit Trainer hats for Kirby. They're hilarious, but I would still prefer his traditional hats.

I'm really looking forward to the launch of this game...
It's gonna be a long wait. :\

Is Hup Canceling still in?
From what I performed, it is possibly still in. Unfortunately the volume wasn't loud enough for me to hear any "Hup" that may have issued forth.
 
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SmileyStation

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The Best Buy event I attended was the standard 2-minute Free-for-All with Items active. They gave everyone two consecutive games in a row. I spent my first one using each move to get a feel for how they felt and a general idea of any changes. The second game I played I played to win. I used Kirby exclusively for both of my games.

Here are my thoughts:

Standard Attack
Very similiar to the usual Vulcan Jab, but with an extra finisher to knock opponents away. This fixes the problem Kirby has had in the past where he could get punished by the opponent immediately following HitStun (Marth's F-smash, lol). If you hold the Attack Button down Kirby will repeat the first punsh indefinitely, the same as in Brawl.

Dash Attack
This is the same Dash Attack as seen in Brawl, but I am happy to say all the hits from Kirby's Dash Attack connect easily. There doesn't appear to be much of an option to follow-up after the Dash Attack because the last hit sends the opponent away with a fairly strong knockback. I only used it once so I cannot comment much on how strong the knockback was, but might be about on par with his F-tilt.

* * * * * *
F-tilt
Kirby's F-tilt hasn't changed much even after four games now. I believe there is more power behind the kick, so Kirby might be netting KOs with this again. As a generl idea of power, Kirby's F-tilt in Brawl KO'd about 180% depending on the weight - in SSB4 it might KO closer to 130% - 150% (hitting from a short distance from the boundary, such as one end of Battlefield).

D-tilt
I didn't hit anyone with this, but when I used it during the test round it felt like Brawl's D-tilt. I cannot confirm if it still causes a trip or not. If it does, it could potentially be a great way to hit-confirm into Smash Attacks to net KOs depending on how forced trips would work.

U-tilt
At first I thought this was nerfed in speed, but after testing a few of them out both whiffed and on opponents I'm going to say it pretty much felt like Brawl Kirby's U-tilt. The launches and juggles in this game felt a little different than in any other Smash game, so I will say it feels like the combo potential is there, but I don't know to what extent. It was probably modified to keep Kirby from getting *too* many U-tilts on fast fallers but to retain it's usefulness in setting up combos.

F-smash
I'm not even going to bother comparing this thing to Melee's F-smash because the difference is like night and day. When compared to Brawl's F-smash, I would say the start-up was reduced so that it hit faster. I would estimate it hitting closer to 8-frames now. I'm not entirely sure, but the 'sour-spot' from Brawl seemed to be mitigated so that it's way more likely to get a good, strong hit, but that might be from the faster hit frames.

D-smash
I don't have much to comment on this. I didn't hit anyone with it, but it's pretty much the same 'propeller' kick that Kirby's been using for over a decade now. I'll have to try this out again on Saturday because I would like to see if it got any better (I liked the duration it had in Melee to catch spot dodges, and it could have used a little more power in Brawl).

U-smash
There's still a horribly weak sour-spot on this attack when Kirby hits when the kick drops behind him. The good news is that it isn't nearly as bad as it was in Brawl/Melee so that you won't necessarily give your opponents free hits on you when you land it - it's about on par with Project: M's U-smash sour-spot. The U-smash itself isn't changed much, it's still used as a strong vertical launcher as expected from the standard U-smash.

* * * * * *
Kirby's Aerial Attacks were awesome. I felt like they were polished up, made more useful, and became more effective overall.

N-air
I will have to give this one more testing, but it felt like the problems it had in Brawl were addressed. I'm going to have to see how it could possibly be used during offense, specifically during combos/pressure, and get back to everyone on this after Saturday. I'm also interested in testing it out off-stage, against various opposing hitboxes, etc.

F-air
Kirby's F-air in SSB was great. In Melee it was garbage. In Brawl it was just underwelming. The main problem with Brawl Kirby's F-air was how akward and difficult it was to use the F-air. The last hit of Brawl Kirby's F-air was decent, but it just took too long to get there and with B-air being an overall better move the F-air just got over-shadowed. In SSB4 the akwardness seemed to be addressed the same way as the Dash Attack by making it easier to land the multi-hitting kicks. Additionally, with the change to the games mechanics, the F-air now has untapped potential! You can Fast Fall and convert to a ground attack such as F-tilt or reversed U-tilt, or you can go for the third kick and send your opponents over the edge. I'm very happy with this attack and cannot wait to use it more when the game launches.

B-air
This move has everything Kirby needs to do work in his battles. The range, power, and utility of this move is all still there, but the sweet-spot feels ... sweeter. I would say it reminds me of the B-air found in SSB which makes me happy.

D-air
The problem with D-air in all itereations of Smash Bros after the first was that the amount of reward you got when actually hitting with the thing was practically not worth it. In Melee you might get something off an L-canceled D-air but it was more likely to get stuffed before it came out, and in Brawl the follow-ups were a gamble. - and let's not even talk about how lackluster the off-stage was with this. But in the SSB4 demo this is all addressed. Successfully pulling off this slow attack on-stage felt like an almost guarenteed advantage or flat-out combo. Off-stage you won't be seeing the awesome Kirby Spike of Doom from 64 days, but you will at least drag your opponents down with you for a good distance with a very solid-hitting multi-attack. I am very pleased with how this looks so far, because I know that balancing this attack can be difficult (shortening the start-up, for instance, can make it very spammy off-stage, increasing the power messes with on-stage options and make it feel 'cheap' in lower level arenas, etc).

* * * * * *
I wasn't very impressed with Kirby's Specials. They felt similar to Brawl's and there really wasn't enough changed about them to get me excited about using them. This isn't to say that they won't be changed later, or that there isn't the chance for something cool to be discovered, but in the short time I had with the game, nothing stellar popped out for me.

Swallow (N-Special)
I believe this comes out faster, much like the speed of a grab. I'm thinking they must have done something about that wonky "gust" hitbox that he had in Brawl. I copied Zelda and he still has his "Young Zelda" hat. I'll keep this one in mind to possibly try out more on Saturday, but ... Man! I just want Sakurai to give Kirby his Abilities found in Super Star one of these days. :*(

Stone (D-Special)
I was not impressed with this attack. It didn't seem especially powerful but it was exceptionally slow. Unless there's more to this than I could intially see (like Armor Frames), then this move is a bust.

Final Cutter (U-special)
I didn't see much of a change in this attack, though the ending lag might not have been as bad. If that's the case, then at least that's something, right? Getting punished for sending out Final Cutter shots was lame.

Hammer (F-Special)
Okay, so this was fun, I'm not going to lie. It's still not necessarily a good move, but it's always great to land on unsuspecting opponents. One thing that was disappointing was the added lag time after an Aerial Hammer. It was a good amount of lag, too.

Okay, so I gotta go, but I'm definitely making plans on making another trip to the Saturday event this weekend! I want to say that already I'm really happy with the game and I can't wait to play more of it!

So what i got from this was:

Standard Attack-Buffed
Dash Attack-Buffed
F-tilt-Same(knockback has been increased overall for the game because the ceiling is just larger and walls are wider. I think that is Nintendo appealing to 1080p+)
D-tilt-Nerfed(With changes in the game's mechanics)
U-tilt-Same
F-Smash-Buffed
D-Smash-Uncertain(probably the same, it has pretty long active frames)
U-Smash-Buffed
N-Air-Buffed
B-Air-Buffed
D-Air-Buffed(I'd say its more of a sidegrade but thats okay too)
Swallow-Buffed
Stone-Same
Copy-Same
Final Cutter-Same
Hammer-Nerfed(Overall)


Is that about right?
 

Asdioh

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Remember how half the cast of Brawl can punish Kirby's Swallow if they have momentum-changing moves, like Toon Link's dair, ROB's dair, Falcon/Ganon's down B, etc? I'm hoping it has some hitstun now?
 

SRUFUS3D

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So there wasn't much more to write about after my trip to Best Buy on Saturday. This is mostly because the two additional 4-player Free-for-All matches I played were just that much more chaotic than the ones on Wednesday. A couple things I can add on though:

I hit with D-tilt a few times and didn't once get a trip. I felt like the chance of getting a forced trip off these D-tilts would have been very likely if the tripping mechanics of D-tilt were the same as they were in Brawl. In other words, it's unlikely that D-tilt trips anymore, or, at the least, the rules governing Kirby's D-tilt tripping have been modified.

N-air feels buffed, though as I mentioned earlier the matches were more chaotic with more X-bombs and terrain changes, so it's hard for me to say in what way. I know that with the new mechanics N-air will have a better chance of being useful either as a lead or to help string combos together. Aside from that, it's mostly the same as it was in Brawl.

It's much easier to get a Copy on someone because the speed of Swallow felt like it was sped up to more of a Grab's framerate (hits on about frame 6). The cool-down animation was changed which made it felt slower and easier to punish, but chances are it's about the same cool-down as in Brawl considering how slow that thing was. I approve of the change of animation because it gives Kirby more of his Return to Dreamland style.

I tested out the Stone more in hopes of finding something better about it. I don't think there are any Armor Frames on start-up (I got hit out of it right when activating it). It still seemed very weak, especially considering how difficult it is to land. Kirby's F-smash felt like it packed much more power. Unless there's something I didn't find out about this move, or if it doesn't get improved before the final build, it will probably be a poor attack in yet another Smash game.

I got to see Mega Man and Wii Fit Trainer hats for Kirby. They're hilarious, but I would still prefer his traditional hats.

I'm really looking forward to the launch of this game...
It's gonna be a long wait. :\


Me: Hmm... do you think that the Hammer or Stone could be viable through customisation? Like, to be like brawls hammer or PM's stone (used defensively.)
 
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Drexel

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I played as Kirby during the Smashfest and I love him. He's got a good grab range and good throws, especially the Z up throw on the Boxing Ring stage as Hbox showed during the Invitational at the E3. His air attacks varied a little bit from Brawl though. I felt the up air attack was weaker, the forward and backward airs were stronger and the down air is pretty much the same. The special side, (Hammer), felt a little different, namely a longer lag at the end and I though the rotation when you use it in the air was a tad slower than in Brawl. Similar things with the up special, the Final Cutter, I felt it had a bit more lag at the end of the attack but pretty much the same. Overall, I am pleased with Kirby, especially with his new final smash. Though I did like using the Cook Kirby, the Ultra Sword is much better suited for Kirby and more powerful.
 

t!MmY

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Question for people who got to play the demo: Is his dash attack still useful?
This implies that it was useful to begin with. XD
I jest; we Kirby players know his Dash Attack had its uses, as minor as they were. The good news is that in the demo his Dash Attack is better (either through tweaking it's properties and/or by the game physics themselves). The bad news is it's still superficially the same Dash Attack as seen in Brawl which doesn't lend to it being especially game-changing. So, if you thought it was useful before, then it will likely be just as useful or more so in SSB4.
 

Cutie Gwen

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This implies that it was useful to begin with. XD
I jest; we Kirby players know his Dash Attack had its uses, as minor as they were. The good news is that in the demo his Dash Attack is better (either through tweaking it's properties and/or by the game physics themselves). The bad news is it's still superficially the same Dash Attack as seen in Brawl which doesn't lend to it being especially game-changing. So, if you thought it was useful before, then it will likely be just as useful or more so in SSB4.
YES!! I love the dash attack, I find it's priority to be useful
 
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Hmm....now I'm curious....after reading through the comments, I've seen no mention of Kirby's new Hammer Flip technique that Sakurai directly mentioned. Was that not available in the demo???
 

Drexel

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Hmm....now I'm curious....after reading through the comments, I've seen no mention of Kirby's new Hammer Flip technique that Sakurai directly mentioned. Was that not available in the demo???
Couldn't say, didn't even know that existed until you said that. XD
 

Hong

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Hmm....now I'm curious....after reading through the comments, I've seen no mention of Kirby's new Hammer Flip technique that Sakurai directly mentioned. Was that not available in the demo???
It takes... 4... 5? seconds to charge.

It might work as an edge-guard like Roy's Flare Blade, only more manoeuvrable. Not sure how well it will work since Brawl and Smash 4 have very forgiving ledges.
 

SRUFUS3D

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Is kirby's ground and air speed improve? Is N-air better now if so how? Could somebody give detail on kirbys U-air and Hammer flip.
please...
 

SRUFUS3D

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So there wasn't much more to write about after my trip to Best Buy on Saturday. This is mostly because the two additional 4-player Free-for-All matches I played were just that much more chaotic than the ones on Wednesday. A couple things I can add on though:

I hit with D-tilt a few times and didn't once get a trip. I felt like the chance of getting a forced trip off these D-tilts would have been very likely if the tripping mechanics of D-tilt were the same as they were in Brawl. In other words, it's unlikely that D-tilt trips anymore, or, at the least, the rules governing Kirby's D-tilt tripping have been modified..



Actually T1mmy Kirby's down tilt can still thankfully trip opponents, take a look:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bryoKOZuyrU

Oh yeah what do think of the potential of down air?
 

SmileyStation

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Actually T1mmy Kirby's down tilt can still thankfully trip opponents, take a look:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bryoKOZuyrU
Oh yeah what do think of the potential of down air?
fantastic. Was that random or does that always happen when you hit someone with it? Trying to gather as much info as possible. Also thanks to this info, id like to promote his vids since he has a decent amount of footage of kirby: SBIT Smash Bros Italia

Man those pivot tilts and turnaround cancels were sick. I cant wait to use that as kirby.
 
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