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Bermudian Smashers - Rate Our Marth's please. (3 new vids inside....please look)

Miggz

Pancake Sandwiches
Joined
May 28, 2007
Messages
1,473
Location
Bermuda [We Gotz De Triangle]
Hey there, my name is Miguel, but my friends call me Miggz. I'm 19 years old and I'm a skilled smasher from the beautiful island of Bermuda. I have been playing Smash for a few years, but I started playing the game with "advanced techniques" for 5 months, and I am very pleased with the results. My opponent in this match is ROK, a good friend of mine. We would really appreciate any critiques and tips. Below I posted the link to our vids. Enjoy...we look forward to hearing from yah soon.

Miguel

*OLD VIDS*

ROK(Marth) vs Miggz(Marth) FD
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ug1msPEUx4

ROK(Marth) vs Miggz(Marth) FD
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=janziTCJa2w

ROK(Marth) vs Miggz(Marth) DL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xsjSTI3ehA

ROK(Marth) vs Miggz(Marth) DL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyNxM65911I


BRAND NEW VIDS BELOW!!

ROK(Marth) vs Miggz(Marth) FD
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bmZxDNWXXs

ROK(Marth) vs Miggz(Marth) YS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rUJZorB4o0

ROK(Marth) vs Miggz(Marth) FD
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZbAtZBaVxI&mode=related&search=
 

DOPL

Smash Rookie
Joined
May 23, 2007
Messages
12
As far as tech skill goes, you both are pretty solid. I saw a lot of little tricks which a lot of people don't utilize.

You both play pretty aggressive Marths. The only thing I can suggest is to temper your play style a bit and be a little more patient. Once the opposing Marth is above you in the air you have a distinct advantage. You don't need to immediately go airborne and try to chase. Often just WDing or DDing around can cause your opponent to make mistakes leading to a smash, grab, tilt, or whatever suits you. However, if you think you can turn one fair into many, go for it =D
 

Miggz

Pancake Sandwiches
Joined
May 28, 2007
Messages
1,473
Location
Bermuda [We Gotz De Triangle]
Thank you so much for the comment. I'm glad you enjoyed watching my friend and I play. And yeah, he and I love applying mind games. So its good to know we aren't like other Marths. ^^

Ahh yes, I see what you mean. I guess we do play a bit rough. I shall take your advice though and be a bit more patient. I guess ROK and I have been playing one another for so long that our styles grew onto each other. lol.

Thanks again for the comment. I really appreciate it. Take care now. :D
 

Miggz

Pancake Sandwiches
Joined
May 28, 2007
Messages
1,473
Location
Bermuda [We Gotz De Triangle]
You guys are better than I expected from marth players who live on an island. Bermuda is capped in skill due to not having a bunch of other awesome smashers to play. Good job reaching this level though.
Hey thanks. And you are correct; there is not much competition down here in Bermuda, which is a real shame. Along with one other person, ROK and I are most likely the most skilled smashers on this little rock. I mean, we have many friends who play but they are too **** lazy to apply advanced techniques. So it sucks that only three people can skillfully represent Bermuda in Smash Brothers. It would be so cool if we could fly to the States and have some fun in a tourney. That must be some experience. ^^

Thanks again for the comment. I'm glad ROK and I are at a decent level. Makes me feel very good about myself. Take care.

:)
 

Virgilijus

Nonnulli Laskowski praestant
BRoomer
Joined
Jun 27, 2006
Messages
14,387
Location
Sunny Bromsgrove
OK, I haven't read what the others posted, but here is my advice:

You guys are very decentMarths, especially from a technical standpoint; you both could pretty consistently Short hop double fairs and what not.

However, you guys both really need to practice spacing. Both of you would almost always move to far towards your opponent while SH Fairing which resulted in shield grabbing or other equally bad outcomes. This thread may help with that: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=104229
He's one of the best players in the country and easily one of the top Marths, so I'm sure his tips weigh heavily.

Also, when you guys did get the other in the air with fairs or up tilts, you would follow it up the your second jump then an up air. As Cactuar told me a while ago, it's important to always try to push the opponent off the edge at low damage: Marths ledge guarding game is incredibly good and it is much easier to kill at medium percentages than high ones (120% on to about 200%), so don't keep them on the stage and add unnecessary damage, as weird as that sounds.

I can't think of much else right now. Best of luck improving :)
 

Miggz

Pancake Sandwiches
Joined
May 28, 2007
Messages
1,473
Location
Bermuda [We Gotz De Triangle]
Wow...today is really my day! I'm happy others like our technical skill. I think short hopping aerials were the hardest thing for me to get the hang of. It feels so good to be able to do it much easier then before. ^^

Ahh yes, spacing...I can see what you mean. We do pass each other when doing our double fairing. A friend of mine once recommended me using the c-stick for aerials. I never tried it yet. I think it’s about time I did. Thank you very much for sending me this thread. I'll be sure to read it tonight. I can't wait.

Lol! That is so true! Yeah he and I shouldn't be wasting time beating the percents out of one another, just take the stock as soon as possible. Yeah I totally agree with yah there. I really appreciate the pointers. I'll be sure to keep them in mind. I feel like a better player already.

Thanks...I love training. :D
 

Pye

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 20, 2006
Messages
496
Location
Montreal. PM me if you're on the island! I need op
I watched the first game, and I have to say, you guys are pretty good. Better then me anyway, so I don't really have much to say, I just want to add to something Virgilijus said. See how he mentions getting your opponent off faster and "not adding unnessisary damage"?

Check out your first match there, at around 2:04. An example of not adding too much damage would've been to use a nair instead of a uair there. DI it a little into the stage too, so it sends your opponent off the stage intead of to the middle.

It's just an example though. There are many little things like that you should think of. The earlier you end your combos, the better, as long as your opponent has enough damage that you can send them off the edge. In general, ending combos in ether nairs or low-percent tipper fsmashes gets you quick, efficient low percent kills (and of course, fair to dair).

Marth's moves don't combo together anymore if your opponent manages to survive over 120-130%, as Virgilijus said, which can be a bit of a pain since you can't lead into your finishers. Luckily, Marth has many, many ways of getting kills well before that percentage (60-90% is Marth's "sweetspot", when his moves can kill best). It happens to all Marth players to get a little overzealous with juggling though ^_^

EDIT: If you can, get used to using the C-stick for most of your aerials, since DIing a fair or a bair away from your opponent can only be done with the c-stick, and it's something Marth tends to use a lot for spacing purposes.
 

Miggz

Pancake Sandwiches
Joined
May 28, 2007
Messages
1,473
Location
Bermuda [We Gotz De Triangle]
Thanks bro, I'm glad you think we are good. Yeah I have ROK and Kizzu to thank for the words of wisdom and tips to help me achieve this level. I really hope you find some opponents to play yah though. All the best with that. ;)

Ahh yes 2:04 was a perfect example. I can see that the combo he pulled could have been changed a bit into a fatal one, instead of a prolonging move. So I thank you for pointing out a good moment. Heh...I'll try and restrain the overzealous beast in me when playing with Marth. lol.

Oh yeah, I am so glad I posted here. I'm now determined to train and get into the habit of using the C-stick for some aerials. I'll be sure to post up my progress in the future. Thank you for the comment. All the best with finding a cool opponent. ^^
 

thebluedeath1000

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 14, 2006
Messages
2,348
Location
N.C, Bladenboro
You guys rule at life for the mimic at 18 seconds lol.

Everyone covered anything I had to say so just keep up the good work. You have no glaring faults so be happy with your progress.
 

Miggz

Pancake Sandwiches
Joined
May 28, 2007
Messages
1,473
Location
Bermuda [We Gotz De Triangle]
You guys rule at life for the mimic at 18 seconds lol.
Lol! Yeah that moment was pretty priceless. And you can tell both of us were thrown off for the next two seconds. Come to think of it, we had another mimic moment in this match too. I think I now understand why ROK loved this match so much. ^^

And thank you for your comment. I do cherish our hard work. And I'll continue to train hard. ^^
:)
 

BDAOutlaw

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 10, 2005
Messages
133
Location
Hmph....Pew Lasers Mutha Fuka
I SEE U!!!! ok its time.....im bout to pick up my game......(and play it)<---slang and no slang at same time.

RoK and Miggz i want your two marths against me and Tym once we pick up since we kinda stopped playing :p

DAMIT ur still got more post then me RoK you noob

gotta practice My new crap so i can switch between techniques here and there

Peace
 

Cactuar

El Fuego
BRoomer
Joined
Mar 10, 2006
Messages
4,820
Location
Philadephia, PA
You guys need to work on smoothing out your movement. You have a lot of wasted time between doing everything, causing you to look like slower, choppy players. Try just doing single shffl fairs into dash. Then practice the same thing with the other aerials. It will help you get a better understanding of how fast your character can escape punishment. I saw a bunch of missed fast falls and L-cancels, but that's something that just takes time to work out.

Not terrible though :laugh:
 

Miggz

Pancake Sandwiches
Joined
May 28, 2007
Messages
1,473
Location
Bermuda [We Gotz De Triangle]
@ BDAOutLAW : Lmao! You kill me man. But yeah you gota train bro. I know you hate playing alone sometimes, but just keep working on yah l-cancel in yah free time. I also see yah Samus' super wavedash is popping up allot too, good! You gota record with ROK and I in September, that is when we are doing it again...like around the first week of September. Although we still train together on a regular. To give us plenty of time to work on our Marth's a bit more and our other characters. And yes, you beta get Tym back into it. We guys need some other good players to fight, and I know you can become good with any character. You just have to want it bad enough. I'll see yah Friday and we can talk a bit more about training together sometime. ^^

@ Cactuar: Thank you so much for your feedback. I really value your advice too. I'll be sure to add in some single fairs to my game. Yeah you can count on that. I wish we could play together. We Bermudian players need more skilled players to come here sometime. It’s a beautiful place, and if yah love swimming and good food...this the place for you, well for a vacation anyway. lol. :p

Thanks again...ROK and I are posting more matches in September. We could do it sooner, but we also wana tidy up our spacing with the fairs (along with getting better with other characters)...which I know will come in handy. Thanks again mate. I'll keep in touch via youtube, or even MSN someday when we become better acquainted. :)
 

Saph66

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 13, 2007
Messages
269
Location
Toronto, Ontario
Pretty decent Marth MIggz. I haven't read the other comments but I'll try to help. I only watched your second video though and half of the first one.

Well, first I have to say is to work on your spacing, as I saw you WD a tad too much by either missing or not sweetspotting, and in my opinion you guys smash attacked a tad too much missing quite a few.

What happened to that spike? You killed yourself lol, don't do that, hehe nice try though. I lol'd in the first video during 18 seconds when both of you missed grabs so far from each other.

You guys had quite a few opportunities to ledgehog each other, but missed it. You might want to WD to ledge hop more, easy kills man lol.

Btw, the controller sounds are a bit annoying, turn up the music abit? lol.
Good job, keep up the good work.
 

Cactuar

El Fuego
BRoomer
Joined
Mar 10, 2006
Messages
4,820
Location
Philadephia, PA
I'll be sure to add in some single fairs to my game.
You don't have to add it to your game, doing what I said is just good for practicing timings. (I use it in my game more often than shdf's, but it's about what you like doing, not me :laugh:)
 

Miggz

Pancake Sandwiches
Joined
May 28, 2007
Messages
1,473
Location
Bermuda [We Gotz De Triangle]
Btw, the controller sounds are a bit annoying, turn up the music abit? lol.
.
Lmao! Yeah he and I have a better idea. We started to post other music with our vids from now on. New batch comming September...I can't wait. In the mean time, I will work on my spacing. In fact, I am getting allot better at it and I am in love with the C-STick for my second fair now. Now I can DI my second fair a bit for spacing. Thanks again for the tips. Every single person who replied thus far had very uplifting comments for me. :cool:
 

Miggz

Pancake Sandwiches
Joined
May 28, 2007
Messages
1,473
Location
Bermuda [We Gotz De Triangle]
Hey everyone! Bermudian smasher Miggz here, I have three updated vids of my Marth. I really hope you can take the time and look at them for me, I'm sure its worth the look. Thanks to everyone's advice here, ROK and I have reached a whole new level. To those who replied to my old vids....it has really helped me out big time. I would love feedback on my newest vids! Thanks, peace!!! :D
 

ArcNatural

Banned ( ∫x, δx Points)
Joined
Jul 19, 2006
Messages
2,964
Location
Boston, MA
Looking better (watched the new ones), but I see what Cactuar means by how your play looks a little choppy. I don't know if it's missed l-cancels or if your just not used to dashing or doing something right after shffls but it just looks a little slow sometimes. Rok is definitely more campy since Miggz almost always is constantly rushing in.

This can really vary to how fast Rok adapts but I feel you could have abused his camping style a lot more. Whenever he came down with an aerial and you rushed in he almost always spotdodged or shielded. Just dash behind to grab will avoid the spotdodge and still get him if he stays in the shield. If your too far away you can just dashdance just in range to see what he does. Your edgeguarding needs some work also.

It seems like your so aggressive that when your supposed to be patient like edgeguarding and such you rush it and put yourself in a bad position. Pay attention to what he does, if he double jumps far from the stage and is overbing back he only has three options: land on stage, aerial dodge on stage, or upB on stage. If he is coming in from below with his double jump most Marth's will double jump. Just try to find ways to gimp him a little more on the edge. If your going to try to edgeguard from the stage remember if they are coming low to stay spaced so you don't get hit unless you plan on jumping over the upB, countering, or ccing the upB to dtilt. You can just space the dtilt so you don't get hit though.

I hope you don't l-cancel in the style of press down to fastfall and hit L or R at the same time (I used to do this, such a hard habit to break fixed it by practicing Falco against Marth pillars), since it looks like you do because you missed most of your full jump l-cancels. Remember not to rush those, be patient if they are shielding try to make your aerial come out as low to the ground as possible to give yourself more time while they are stunned.

I recommend what Cactuar was talking about the shffled aerials to immediate dashing, and also try shffled aerials to immediate uptilt or reverse uptilts. You can easily tell when you have l-canceled those. This is just to help you get faster. I expect your next vids to have at least 1 or 2 times with someone shffl fairing into a shield to dash behind to grab.

For Rok, I hope you can try to be a little more offensive when Miggz starts getting better at grabbing your spotdodges and not missing l-cancels on your shield. It works fine now because Miggz is overly aggressive but hopefully once he starts baiting more and getting grabs from being smart you will be able to open up your game more.

I hope I wasn't too critical, you both seem like solid players, but that was just what I noticed.
 

FrostByte

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
1,075
Location
London, England
You have a very nice mix up game on your approach. Try using a Dtilt to approach sometimes and fastfall your AC nairs. They will get you back to the ground quicker and your attack will still be autocanceled. I noticed that both of you like to DI out of grabs, so you should be throwing each other up most of the time unless near an edge. You can chase with a full jump/instant double jump uair or delayed double jump aerial depending on DI.
 

Miggz

Pancake Sandwiches
Joined
May 28, 2007
Messages
1,473
Location
Bermuda [We Gotz De Triangle]
@ Arcnatural : Hey thanks for the review. I thought it was 100% honest and very helpful, indeed. I too noticed that my edge guarding game needs work. I just have a hard time responding correctly when ROK comes back onto the stage. I noticed that I always seemed to make the wrong choice, so I really appreciated when you broke down the various scenarios and recovery situations. So now I can spend more time thinking clearly about that! ^^

Ahh yes, yes, I did miss some of my full jump aerials. I moist admit that I spent most of time with my canceling short hop ones, that I almost neglected my full jump aerials, so I shall improve on that also. As for the immediate dashing after an aerial, I noticed I did it a few times, but not enough. I am going to take your advise and work on canceling my fairs that hit shields and run behind him for a grab, I did lack that particular movement. As for the up tilts after a SHFFL, you notice that after I did a SHFFL fair I started doing immediate jabs? Those were failed up titlt attempts. lol. So I think that I also just messed up on my follow up after a SHFFL fair stun. The final things that I have to work on is sometimes, after a SHFFL fair, I try dashing away but I sometimes just turn around slowly. I guess I gota press the analog stick a bit harder. :p

Once again, thanks so much for your awesome advice, much respect! And I shall do even better the next time I post. :D
 

Miggz

Pancake Sandwiches
Joined
May 28, 2007
Messages
1,473
Location
Bermuda [We Gotz De Triangle]
You have a very nice mix up game on your approach. Try using a Dtilt to approach sometimes and fastfall your AC nairs. They will get you back to the ground quicker and your attack will still be autocanceled. I noticed that both of you like to DI out of grabs, so you should be throwing each other up most of the time unless near an edge. You can chase with a full jump/instant double jump uair or delayed double jump aerial depending on DI.
Thanks FrostByte! Yeah I like my approaching ways. I think that is were allot of players, not just Marths in general, go wrong. So I am happy to be pretty good at it. Dtilt approach does sound pretty neat. I might just blend that one into my style. I know I like doing it after an SHFFL aerial, but thanks for the tip, I shall indeed aply it. =)
 

Emblem Lord

The Legendary Lord
Joined
Aug 11, 2005
Messages
9,720
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Scotch Plains, NJ
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ShinEmblemLord
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3926-6895-0574
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SW-0793-4091-6136
I'm only going to critique the newer vids, since critiqueing your older vids would be pointless. I always remain objective when critiqueing vids. I make no effort to sound harsh. This is just unbiased objective criticism that is intended to help other players improve. If I sound harsh please do not take offense to it.

Video 1

Beggining of the vid - You and ROK opened with some dash dancing. It seemed a little mindless IMO. Especially on ROK's part. He was DDing too far to be able to pressure you effectively or punish you by capitalizing on lag or a mistakes that you might make.

00:11 - ROK goofed up here. This was a standard Marth combo too. He should have been able to tell that you weren't going to get hit with another u-tilt. He should have followed with an aerial. Preferable a tippered fair or an non-tippered fair to a uair.

00:13 - Another small mistake. Should of went into a juggle combo with some shuffles. Could have been a ken combo and a stock.

00:16 to 00:31 - I see alot of sloppy edge guarding. There were times when ROK had you off the side and he could have did a d-tilt, an f-smash, ran off and did a fair or a reverse up b, but he just stood there. You messed up on an edge guarding attempt as well. But ROK had more chances then you to edge guard and he squandered them all.

00:37 - You went for a SH nair after a dash attack. Know what to follow up with. Know what can combo into what and when.

00:42 - ROK did it again. He got you in the air and went for an additional 2 u-tilts after the first one. he should have chased you after that first one. And you made a very bad choice in doing a forward b right over your oppponent's head. You should have jumped away, especially if you knew he was going to attempt more u-tilts, which you probably did, if you guys train together alot. Also you should have been DIing in a direction as soon as Marth got his hands on you. but you went straight up.

00:44 - You got in a hit with a fair, but were too slow with your follow-up. That was an easy grab or juggle combo that you could have gotten.

00:46 - ROK does 2 d-tilts in a row. Why? Never do that in a Marth ditto. It's asking to get grabbed. He should have cancelled the d-tilt into a grab or an aerial. He could have rolled away or dashed away if he was scared of retalitation. Also since he hit you with the first one, why do another one? Grabbing probably would have been the smartest thing to do.

00:50 to 01:37 - Saw ALOT of sloppy play and sloppy edgeguarding. You guys would get each other off the stage and make no attempt to hit one another most of the time. Other times you would throw out an f-smash when it was clear they wouldn't hit. At one point you threw out 3 d-tilts in a row. This wasn't needed. You hit him with the first one and should have just grabbed. Also when he got back on the stage you made an attempt to dash cross-up to grab, but you were slow and didn't JC the grab. I saw other things too. Like when one of you was in the air the other would throw out some random ground attack like a d-tilt for example. I also noticed a missed shield grab attempt. When you shielded ROK's get up attack, you could have grabbed, and you tried, but you were too slow.

01:35 - Again, I'm seeing that you guys are allowing one another to get back on the stage. Why did you jump so high? You completely threw away your chance to edge guard him. It worked out for you because ROK tried to ledge hop fair even though you clearly weren't close enough.

01:45 - ROK was on the ground and you did nothing. Not even a d-tilt or a wavedash forward to make him feel pressured to do something. You also could have nailed him with an f-smash right after he got up.

01:53 - Stop jumping when ROK is on the edge. You are completely screwing up any chance you might have had to edge guard. A better opponent would capitilize on that and punish you for it.

02:00 - O_O ROK just missed. Just blantantly didn't hit you at all. You were right there. ROK shouldn't have missed that Nair.

02:11 - This time you messed up. Just like I said before about ROK, there is no reason as to why you shouldn't have been able to follow-up successfully after that dash attack.

02:26 - A ledge hop Bair would have been nice, but ROK SDed out of fear.

02:45 - A shielded Dair should have been a free combo for you Miggz.

03:01 - Right about here I thought," Yeah, Ken combo....wait, wait...WTF?!" There was no reason to go for an u-tilt here. Should have went for a grab or just kept fairing.

03:16 - You let yourself take a hit here. Where was the shield.

03:22 - You played around on the edge and died for it. Not good.

Basically I saw bad habits, sloppy play, slow reactions and missed opportunities to follow-up or poor follow-up attacks. I saw alot of needless things such as full jumping when an opponent was on the edge, no attempts to run off the stage for edge guarding, alot of grab wars and missed JC grabs. Your play overall wasn't fluid. And you guys even out right missed some of your attacks when the other was completely vulnerable. Your reaction times were slow as well. There is no secret method that I can tell you to improve this. You have to get a feel for it. Play more. Practice more. Speed up your game. This isn't mindgames. This is pure technical skill and practice is the best thing to do to improve it. Also be quicker when punishing your opponent. You guys often hesitated. You have to get out of that habit.

Video 2

ROK started off ok, but he could have went for a combo when you were on the platforms.

00:13 - ROK throws out some dash dance spam. I know he was doing this mindlessly because you did a short hop fair and hit him with it. And Marth takes some time to hit the peak of his jump in a SH, so that proves that ROK really wasn't thinking when he was doing this. He should have been able to shield your attack with no trouble. Dash dance with purpose and awareness. Also when you hit him that could have been a grab, but instead you dashed back and missed your grab that you didn't JC. Not good.

00:21 - Bad spacing for edge guarding. Then you full jumped back which left you vulnerable. If you wanted to get away you were better off rolling or wavedashing back.

00:23 - ROK had a free combo, but he cut it off. He could have kept going. There was no reason to stop.

00:28 - Bad time to forward b and it cost you.

00:42 - No attempt at all to edge guard.

00:50 - Should have attacked sooner, but you hesitated.

01:13 - More hesitation cost you an easy kill.

01:17 - ROK stood there and let you slice his face off.

01:21 - ROK popped you up and stayed put on the ground. You guys need to work on following up with your combos.

01:38 - ROK could have punished here. Wave dash from shield to grab would have been good.

02:05 - Where was the edgehog? You let him back on the stage.

02:15 - Silly mistake on ROK's part.

02:32 - Once again, you jump back when you should be edge guarding.

02:42 - Could have been a Ken combo, but you went for a grab instead.

03:05 - Should have been a tipper f-smash right here. Then you wnet on to do a good edge guard with a ledge hopped bair, but then you died. You shouldn't have died from it though.

Everything I said in the first vid apllies here, but I do have a few more things to add. I noticed more non-JCed grabs in this game. You need to JC your grabs. You are left far more vulnerable if you don't. I also noticed a few jabs here and there at point blank range. This isn't a good idea. Marth's jab isn't good in the first place and you definitely don't want to use it when you are that close to an opponent. I also saw more silly little mistakes in this vid and a little more hesistancy then in the first vid. I also caught a few failures to follow-up. Work on these areas of your gameplay.

Video 3

00:11 - Failed to follow-up correctly. A quick full hop Fair or Nair was in order.

00:18 - Could have been a Dair on ROK's part. And his Bair missed altogether.

00:22 - Bad follow-up choice and you hesitated.

00:35 - ROK was vulnerable, but you dashed away for no reason.

00:48 - Bad follow-up with the jab. Should have been a grab.

01:00 - Another failure to follow through with any sort of attack.

01:30 - That really should have been a d-throw not an u-throw on ROK's part.

01:38 - Mistake on following up on your part.

01:48 - Too slow on the re-grab attempt because you hesitated.

01:56 - You let ROK back onto the stage.

02:12 - Very late follow-up. That could have been a nice juggle combo.

Saw some mistakes after that, but I won't make notes of them specifically. Mostly just errors in edge guarding and doing wierd things at certain moments that left you guys vulnerable. Like at one point ROK did a Dolphin slash to hit you. Then you came down and punished him while he was in his recovery lag.

This last video is more of the same from the other 2. But I saw ALOT more mistakes made when it came to following-up then I did in the other two vids. The oth of you really need to work on this aspect of your game. Train to the point where you know what to do and when so you will never hesitate. Ther is no reason to hold back when you are comboing someone. They are at your mercy, so what is the point in stopping unless they are too far away? Don't stop the combo unitl your opponent is dead, you knocked them off the stage for edge guarding, or they are too far away to continue comboing.

You should both be proud for reaching this level, but Im not like everyone else in this thread. I'm not going to baby you because you are on an island. I give people the truth. And the truth is that you guys can ascend to a much higher level then this just by working on the things I talked about in this critique. So don't feel like you have gone as high as you can go just because there aren't many smashers on Bermuda. You can go so much higher. I will list the main things you guys need to work on to step up your game.


The Training Regiment

1) Speed up your game play. You need to be able to move as soon as possible from one move to the next. Like Cactuar said before try dashing after shffls or dashing after a d-tilt. Abusing Marth's speed is one of the key traits of good Marth's. You have to do it to be a good Marth. Mess around in training mode to egt a feel for speeding up your game. Practice wavedashing from your shield, immeditely dashing after an aerial or a d-tilt, buffering rolls after aerials, and using auto cancelled Nairs.

2) Don't hesitate. Become more comfortable with your moves and attacks. This way you will not hesitate when you have someone in a combo or someone is vulnerable. This will also speed up your game.

3) Know how and when to follow-up. This is really just a combination of speeding up your game and not hesitating. Once those aspects of your game have improved your follow-up attacks will improve as well becasue you will have more confidence and you will know what to do and when. Experiment and practice vs cpu's to get comfortable doing combos.

4) Space yourself when edge guarding. This si very important. Don't jump away from the ledge. Just be a at safe distance but still close enough that you can rush in and grab, hit with a d-tilt or hit witha tippered f-smash.

5) Don't be afraid to run off the stage to edge guard. You will have to get comfortable doing this, but once you master it you will be both become much better players.

6) JC your grabs. They have less lag then regular grabs. Less lag = good.

7) Make smarter choices for the situations you are in. If someone is shielding and you are right in thier face, don't jab. Grab or dash back and forward b. You could also dash cross-up to grab. Be smart about your choices and think about the consequences of how you play and mistakes that you make.

8) Proper spacing for combos. No decent Marth player should be missing an attack in a combo. Your opponent can't move so there is no reason why you should miss. You need to get more comfortable doing combos so that you know what distance you have to be at to hit with w/e attack of your choice.

9) Start using dash cancelled d-tilt as an approach. It's arguable Marth's best approach.



If you train hard and work on all these aspects of your game play you and ROK will become faster, fluid Marth's. So train hard. And power up to the very limit.

I hope I was helpful.
 

Miggz

Pancake Sandwiches
Joined
May 28, 2007
Messages
1,473
Location
Bermuda [We Gotz De Triangle]
I'm only going to critique the newer vids, since critiqueing your older vids would be pointless. I always remain objective when critiqueing vids. I make no effort to sound harsh. This is just unbiased objective criticism that is intended to help other players improve. If I sound harsh please do not take offense to it.

Video 1

Beggining of the vid - You and ROK opened with some dash dancing. It seemed a little mindless IMO. Especially on ROK's part. He was DDing too far to be able to pressure you effectively or punish you by capitalizing on lag or a mistakes that you might make.

00:11 - ROK goofed up here. This was a standard Marth combo too. He should have been able to tell that you weren't going to get hit with another u-tilt. He should have followed with an aerial. Preferable a tippered fair or an non-tippered fair to a uair.

00:13 - Another small mistake. Should of went into a juggle combo with some shuffles. Could have been a ken combo and a stock.

00:16 to 00:31 - I see alot of sloppy edge guarding. There were times when ROK had you off the side and he could have did a d-tilt, an f-smash, ran off and did a fair or a reverse up b, but he just stood there. You messed up on an edge guarding attempt as well. But ROK had more chances then you to edge guard and he squandered them all.

00:37 - You went for a SH nair after a dash attack. Know what to follow up with. Know what can combo into what and when.

00:42 - ROK did it again. He got you in the air and went for an additional 2 u-tilts after the first one. he should have chased you after that first one. And you made a very bad choice in doing a forward b right over your oppponent's head. You should have jumped away, especially if you knew he was going to attempt more u-tilts, which you probably did, if you guys train together alot. Also you should have been DIing in a direction as soon as Marth got his hands on you. but you went straight up.

00:44 - You got in a hit with a fair, but were too slow with your follow-up. That was an easy grab or juggle combo that you could have gotten.

00:46 - ROK does 2 d-tilts in a row. Why? Never do that in a Marth ditto. It's asking to get grabbed. He should have cancelled the d-tilt into a grab or an aerial. He could have rolled away or dashed away if he was scared of retalitation. Also since he hit you with the first one, why do another one? Grabbing probably would have been the smartest thing to do.

00:50 to 01:37 - Saw ALOT of sloppy play and sloppy edgeguarding. You guys would get each other off the stage and make no attempt to hit one another most of the time. Other times you would throw out an f-smash when it was clear they wouldn't hit. At one point you threw out 3 d-tilts in a row. This wasn't needed. You hit him with the first one and should have just grabbed. Also when he got back on the stage you made an attempt to dash cross-up to grab, but you were slow and didn't JC the grab. I saw other things too. Like when one of you was in the air the other would throw out some random ground attack like a d-tilt for example. I also noticed a missed shield grab attempt. When you shielded ROK's get up attack, you could have grabbed, and you tried, but you were too slow.

01:35 - Again, I'm seeing that you guys are allowing one another to get back on the stage. Why did you jump so high? You completely threw away your chance to edge guard him. It worked out for you because ROK tried to ledge hop fair even though you clearly weren't close enough.

01:45 - ROK was on the ground and you did nothing. Not even a d-tilt or a wavedash forward to make him feel pressured to do something. You also could have nailed him with an f-smash right after he got up.

01:53 - Stop jumping when ROK is on the edge. You are completely screwing up any chance you might have had to edge guard. A better opponent would capitilize on that and punish you for it.

02:00 - O_O ROK just missed. Just blantantly didn't hit you at all. You were right there. ROK shouldn't have missed that Nair.

02:11 - This time you messed up. Just like I said before about ROK, there is no reason as to why you shouldn't have been able to follow-up successfully after that dash attack.

02:26 - A ledge hop Bair would have been nice, but ROK SDed out of fear.

02:45 - A shielded Dair should have been a free combo for you Miggz.

03:01 - Right about here I thought," Yeah, Ken combo....wait, wait...WTF?!" There was no reason to go for an u-tilt here. Should have went for a grab or just kept fairing.

03:16 - You let yourself take a hit here. Where was the shield.

03:22 - You played around on the edge and died for it. Not good.

Basically I saw bad habits, sloppy play, slow reactions and missed opportunities to follow-up or poor follow-up attacks. I saw alot of needless things such as full jumping when an opponent was on the edge, no attempts to run off the stage for edge guarding, alot of grab wars and missed JC grabs. Your play overall wasn't fluid. And you guys even out right missed some of your attacks when the other was completely vulnerable. Your reaction times were slow as well. There is no secret method that I can tell you to improve this. You have to get a feel for it. Play more. Practice more. Speed up your game. This isn't mindgames. This is pure technical skill and practice is the best thing to do to improve it. Also be quicker when punishing your opponent. You guys often hesitated. You have to get out of that habit.

Video 2

ROK started off ok, but he could have went for a combo when you were on the platforms.

00:13 - ROK throws out some dash dance spam. I know he was doing this mindlessly because you did a short hop fair and hit him with it. And Marth takes some time to hit the peak of his jump in a SH, so that proves that ROK really wasn't thinking when he was doing this. He should have been able to shield your attack with no trouble. Dash dance with purpose and awareness. Also when you hit him that could have been a grab, but instead you dashed back and missed your grab that you didn't JC. Not good.

00:21 - Bad spacing for edge guarding. Then you full jumped back which left you vulnerable. If you wanted to get away you were better off rolling or wavedashing back.

00:23 - ROK had a free combo, but he cut it off. He could have kept going. There was no reason to stop.

00:28 - Bad time to forward b and it cost you.

00:42 - No attempt at all to edge guard.

00:50 - Should have attacked sooner, but you hesitated.

01:13 - More hesitation cost you an easy kill.

01:17 - ROK stood there and let you slice his face off.

01:21 - ROK popped you up and stayed put on the ground. You guys need to work on following up with your combos.

01:38 - ROK could have punished here. Wave dash from shield to grab would have been good.

02:05 - Where was the edgehog? You let him back on the stage.

02:15 - Silly mistake on ROK's part.

02:32 - Once again, you jump back when you should be edge guarding.

02:42 - Could have been a Ken combo, but you went for a grab instead.

03:05 - Should have been a tipper f-smash right here. Then you wnet on to do a good edge guard with a ledge hopped bair, but then you died. You shouldn't have died from it though.

Everything I said in the first vid apllies here, but I do have a few more things to add. I noticed more non-JCed grabs in this game. You need to JC your grabs. You are left far more vulnerable if you don't. I also noticed a few jabs here and there at point blank range. This isn't a good idea. Marth's jab isn't good in the first place and you definitely don't want to use it when you are that close to an opponent. I also saw more silly little mistakes in this vid and a little more hesistancy then in the first vid. I also caught a few failures to follow-up. Work on these areas of your gameplay.

Video 3

00:11 - Failed to follow-up correctly. A quick full hop Fair or Nair was in order.

00:18 - Could have been a Dair on ROK's part. And his Bair missed altogether.

00:22 - Bad follow-up choice and you hesitated.

00:35 - ROK was vulnerable, but you dashed away for no reason.

00:48 - Bad follow-up with the jab. Should have been a grab.

01:00 - Another failure to follow through with any sort of attack.

01:30 - That really should have been a d-throw not an u-throw on ROK's part.

01:38 - Mistake on following up on your part.

01:48 - Too slow on the re-grab attempt because you hesitated.

01:56 - You let ROK back onto the stage.

02:12 - Very late follow-up. That could have been a nice juggle combo.

Saw some mistakes after that, but I won't make notes of them specifically. Mostly just errors in edge guarding and doing wierd things at certain moments that left you guys vulnerable. Like at one point ROK did a Dolphin slash to hit you. Then you came down and punished him while he was in his recovery lag.

This last video is more of the same from the other 2. But I saw ALOT more mistakes made when it came to following-up then I did in the other two vids. The oth of you really need to work on this aspect of your game. Train to the point where you know what to do and when so you will never hesitate. Ther is no reason to hold back when you are comboing someone. They are at your mercy, so what is the point in stopping unless they are too far away? Don't stop the combo unitl your opponent is dead, you knocked them off the stage for edge guarding, or they are too far away to continue comboing.

You should both be proud for reaching this level, but Im not like everyone else in this thread. I'm not going to baby you because you are on an island. I give people the truth. And the truth is that you guys can ascend to a much higher level then this just by working on the things I talked about in this critique. So don't feel like you have gone as high as you can go just because there aren't many smashers on Bermuda. You can go so much higher. I will list the main things you guys need to work on to step up your game.


The Training Regiment

1) Speed up your game play. You need to be able to move as soon as possible from one move to the next. Like Cactuar said before try dashing after shffls or dashing after a d-tilt. Abusing Marth's speed is one of the key traits of good Marth's. You have to do it to be a good Marth. Mess around in training mode to egt a feel for speeding up your game. Practice wavedashing from your shield, immeditely dashing after an aerial or a d-tilt, buffering rolls after aerials, and using auto cancelled Nairs.

2) Don't hesitate. Become more comfortable with your moves and attacks. This way you will not hesitate when you have someone in a combo or someone is vulnerable. This will also speed up your game.

3) Know how and when to follow-up. This is really just a combination of speeding up your game and not hesitating. Once those aspects of your game have improved your follow-up attacks will improve as well becasue you will have more confidence and you will know what to do and when. Experiment and practice vs cpu's to get comfortable doing combos.

4) Space yourself when edge guarding. This si very important. Don't jump away from the ledge. Just be a at safe distance but still close enough that you can rush in and grab, hit with a d-tilt or hit witha tippered f-smash.

5) Don't be afraid to run off the stage to edge guard. You will have to get comfortable doing this, but once you master it you will be both become much better players.

6) JC your grabs. They have less lag then regular grabs. Less lag = good.

7) Make smarter choices for the situations you are in. If someone is shielding and you are right in thier face, don't jab. Grab or dash back and forward b. You could also dash cross-up to grab. Be smart about your choices and think about the consequences of how you play and mistakes that you make.

8) Proper spacing for combos. No decent Marth player should be missing an attack in a combo. Your opponent can't move so there is no reason why you should miss. You need to get more comfortable doing combos so that you know what distance you have to be at to hit with w/e attack of your choice.

9) Start using dash cancelled d-tilt as an approach. It's arguable Marth's best approach.



If you train hard and work on all these aspects of your game play you and ROK will become faster, fluid Marth's. So train hard. And power up to the very limit.

I hope I was helpful.
Hey thank you SO much for this advice. I agree 100% with everything you said, and it has indeed helped me. This was one of the best reviews ever! No doubt one of the best you’re one of the best and professional helpers on this site. Not to mention you was even nice enough to do up little training steps for me as well. Good news, I started JC grabs last night. They are much easier then I thought, don't know why I avoided those for so long. Although sometimes I do a Up smash by accident, but I'm sure its just a practice phase thing. The main thing I can't wait to get better at is making smarter choices. I'm a very smart person, so I'm sure I'll become allot better at paying attention in my matches in no time, therefore enhancing my mind games! Once again, thanks for everything you have done for me, you not only made me a better Marth player, but a better player in general. I wish you and I can keep in touch, I have a feeling you and I could become good friends. :)

Take care...I'll be sure to post my progress someday. ^^
 

shinkazenokizzu

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 5, 2007
Messages
147
Location
The Bahamas
Hey thank you SO much for this advice. I agree 100% with everything you said, and it has indeed helped me. This was one of the best reviews ever! No doubt one of the best you’re one of the best and professional helpers on this site. Not to mention you was even nice enough to do up little training steps for me as well. Good news, I started JC grabs last night. They are much easier then I thought, don't know why I avoided those for so long. Although sometimes I do a Up smash by accident, but I'm sure its just a practice phase thing. The main thing I can't wait to get better at is making smarter choices. I'm a very smart person, so I'm sure I'll become allot better at paying attention in my matches in no time, therefore enhancing my mind games! Once again, thanks for everything you have done for me, you not only made me a better Marth player, but a better player in general. I wish you and I can keep in touch, I have a feeling you and I could become good friends. :)

Take care...I'll be sure to post my progress someday. ^^
i agree he is the best pro helper i have ever seen >_< wow that was like a play by play guide. cool
 
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