Beginner Zelda videos (2)

[brawlerbrad91]

here's a vid of me trashing a lv. 9 samus, I'm not really good w/ Zelda yet, but I want to be. This is my second day using her, and I still have to get used to the uair and nair, i don't use them a lot. I don't have a real fighting style yet, but I try to keep opponents out with din's and if they come close, i hope to hit them w/ fsmash which i spam a lot, i need to use dsmash more and ftilt more because fsmash is easy to dodge.

I hope to get some more vids up, i replayed two more on my game yesterday, so they should be up soon. Please comment on my fighting since i have plenty of areas i need to improve on. Anyways, here it is.

Zelda (Me) vs. Samus (CPU lvl.9)

Zelda WiFi Match 1

 

[sFoster]

Don't use dins fire against the computer if you want to practice, or ask others for tips.
It's completly unrealistic and a waste of everybodies time.

Even level 9s DO NOT AIRDODGE dins.. you can juggle them from 0 to death consistently.
Yes it's really that ******** ..

Computers are only good for practicing zelda's other moves.

 

[brawlerbrad91]

ya, i've pretty much figured that out, i rarely use din's on cpu any more

 

[Luthien]

If you want to get good with Zelda

Sorry.

If you want to get good with anybody, you can't really practice against computers. Computers are fine if you're just trying to get the moveset down, but in truth, you are setting your standards way too low if you're actually trying to practice with them. Why is this?

Computers don't teach you how to mindgame

Spoiler

effectively.

Although the AI has been improved greatly since Melee, you won't really learn how to find patterns in your opponent's playstyle if you've been fighting against a computer. You'll be used to the same fighting style, all the time, with no changes. The computer won't try to use mindgames on you either, and you need to learn how to use that to your advantage as well.

Also, you can't improve if you're sandbagging. Period. You can't learn anything from 3 stocking a level 9. Once you're at the point where you can four stock a level 9 computer consistently, you can need to move on to human opponents if you want to get better.

At any rate, you need to have humans around to play humans, so I'd suggest putting up matches against them instead. If you have no one around who enjoys Smash or anything like that, try using the wifi feature. It's the only reason I play Brawl and not Melee now.

 

[Me Myself and Jy]

To me, Zelda is all about priority and mindgames. Don't expect to get too good playing only against computers. There's not much to say since Luthien pretty much covered it but I'll just say this. As one of the premiere Zelda players of Arizona, I never waste time playing a computer.

 

[sFoster]

Luthien I disagree slightly with what you've said.

You say you can't learn how to read patterns in your opponents playstyle, but I think the computer is much easier to read the patterns than any human..

If you can't read the computer, you'll never be able to read a person.. because the computer is much more transparent. So.. if you're not at the point where you can learn to read the computer, then you still have something you can learn by practicing against them.

Sometimes I practice 1v2 against the computer, and sometimes I practice my spot dodging.. because my spot dodging is terrible. Even against the computer I get owned when I try to spot dodge frequently during a match.

I figure if I'm not at the point where I can rely on my spot dodging against the computer I'm just going to get smashed if I try to start spot dodging against a real player.

 

[Luthien]

Luthien I disagree slightly with what you've said.

You say you can't learn how to read patterns in your opponents playstyle, but I think the computer is much easier to read the patterns than any human..

That's the thing. The computer has a pattern, and although it is harder to read from Melee's, it is still just a pattern. The computer will never try to do something unexpected, it will never be thinking "What can I do to throw my opponent off?" I'm not so much talking about pattern analysis as I am talking about predicting changes in patterns, and learning how to deal with them. Very rarely do I find myself surprised by a computer's actions, so if I only fight computers, how will I learn to adjust quickly?

If you can't read the computer, you'll never be able to read a person.. because the computer is much more transparent. So.. if you're not at the point where you can learn to read the computer, then you still have something you can learn by practicing against them.

That's exactly what I was talking about. Once you get to the stage where you are consistently four-stocking [3 stocking now, I suppose] computers, you will no longer learn from them. You need to move on. You can still get better, but at a very, very, very slow rate. And once you do eventually face another human, you'll be in for a shock.

You'll never fight an Ike with a different playstyle, because all computer Ikes fight the same. Compare Spazn's Ike to Rykos. Very different. If I tried fighting Ryko's Ike like I fight Spazns, I would lose. Well, I usually lose anyway, but I would lose very badly. You not only need to learn how to deal with certain character's movesets, but you need to learn how to deal with defensive/aggressive playstyles. And you can't learn that from a computer.

Sometimes I practice 1v2 against the computer, and sometimes I practice my spot dodging.. because my spot dodging is terrible. Even against the computer I get owned when I try to spot dodge frequently during a match.

I figure if I'm not at the point where I can rely on my spot dodging against the computer I'm just going to get smashed if I try to start spot dodging against a real player.

That's working on your basic moveset. And, again, once you manage to perfect your spot dodgeing against a computer, you can't really improve from that point. This is not the same against a human opponent, because a human can always toss things up, do something unexpected, etc. You take your predicting abilty to a whole new level against a human than against a computer. Eventually you will know what a computer is going to do, and be able to spotdodge. With humans, you can only estimate.

Computers don't use mindgames. Therefore, you can't practice dealing with mindgames against a computer. I agree with you that computers can help you improve, but once you can beat them on a consistant basis they can't really help you anymore.

 

[brawlerbrad91]

I'll try to get some wifi ones up, i rarely go on wifi, but since i've got Zelda down, i'll probably start to, i recorded one so far. It should be up soon, i hope.

 

[Soloman]

nah u dont have zelda down. All u do is din spam, anyone with half a brain with air dodge or spot dodge shield your obvious fsmash and punish the hell outta u. Learn to use tilts, hir dtilt is VERY effective at poking dash attacks and getting some easy shots in. Truth, u'd get ***** in a human match.

 

[brawlerbrad91]

nah u dont have zelda down. All u do is din spam, anyone with half a brain with air dodge or spot dodge shield your obvious fsmash and punish the hell outta u. Learn to use tilts, hir dtilt is VERY effective at poking dash attacks and getting some easy shots in. Truth, u'd get ***** in a human match.

first off, when did i say i had zelda down. That was like my second day using her, kinda like i said in the first post, i've gotten better since then, but not that good.

 

[Luthien]

first off, when did i say i had zelda down. That was like my second day using her, kinda like i said in the first post, i've gotten better since then, but not that good.

Here:

I'll try to get some wifi ones up, i rarely go on wifi, but since i've got Zelda down, i'll probably start to, i recorded one so far.

Perhaps you meant it differently?

Anyway, Soloman is kind of right. The Din's Fire spam is fine, but you're going to need to practice using it against humans to find out when it's safe to use it and when it isn't safe to use it. Din's Fire spam isn't your problem.

You roll too much. It's one of the many symptoms of fighting level 9 computers all the time. Fix that. Rolling gets punished a lot now, because any opponent who's worth fighting will pay attention to your roll patterns *coughspazncough*. Seriously, it's an issue I struggle with. Spazn attacks, I roll behind, she dsmashes, I die. The end.

Hope you improve quickly. :]

 

[brawlerbrad91]

OK, here's one of me during a wifi battle, this was about a week ago. Here it is. And you are right about me rolling too much, i definitely do it, it's a bad habit and I need to fix it.

Zelda WiFi match 1

 

[S2]

Its hard to give feedback on a FFA vid because that gameplay mode that doesn't foster regular strategies and mindgames.

As far as the issue of learning on a CPU, there is a key difference between learning a CPUs pattern and analyzing when real players do patterns.

The CPU always plays the same for the most part. There really aren't mindgames because while you can learn to predict what its going to do, it will never try and predict what your going to do. Nor catch on and change its tactics if it thinks you've figured it out.

Human players are both constantly trying to figure each other out, that influences what they are going to do. They also do things randomly at times, out of pattern. Not to mention, while a CPU will always play the same... a human player will spam and repeat things that are effective. A CPU makes no analysis of what's effective and simply does its pattern.

The point is, that playing CPUs in a competetive fashion will make the player lazy. Since the player is rewarded for developing bad habits simply because they work on a CPU, when in a real match they don't work at all. The CPU falls for things no human player would and wont' punish for obvious mistakes.