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Beginner Marth Main Question

jacobpilawa

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 14, 2013
Messages
43
Location
Chardon, Ohio
Hey everyone,

I was just wondering a couple things. I've loved Smash Bros for as long as I can remember, and I just now got into the competitive aspect. I play tournaments at my school, and in all honesty, I'm one of the best, but not always. I am just wondering what I can do to get better. What things should I practice? How should I train? None of my friends are that spectacular, and none of them know even the basics such as wave-dashing and L-canceling. I main with Marth if that helps at all.

TL;DR - How do beginners practice and what things should they work on?


Thanks.
 

Swiper

Smash Rookie
Joined
Nov 6, 2013
Messages
6
More specifically all of the wave techniques and l cancelling. You can use the one player glitch to work by yourself and use c stick (which I advise you learning how to use).
 

MookieRah

Kinda Sorta OK at Smash
Joined
Mar 7, 2004
Messages
5,384
Location
Umeå, Sweden
Here is a link to the Name Entry Glitch you use to play as a single player outside 1-player mode:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyH36Mp7UQ8#t=93 (In case the link doesn't work correctly, it's around 1:30)

Another tip for using this trick is to play in Fixed-Camera mode. This way the games camera system doesn't zoom in so much when you practice alone.


Here is a list of things that new players should work on, starting with easy stuff and moving up a bit. This quick guide assumes no prior knowledge of competitive smash.

1: Short hopping - Lightly tap the jump button (or if you have insane finesse the control stick) to short hop.

2: Learn to fast fall - Pressing down after you reach the highest point of your jump will cause your character to fall quicker. This is used for several situations, shffling, adjusting your spacing to continue combos, mixing up your fall speed to get out of a combo, etc.

3: Tilts - Learn to perform all of your characters tilts on command. Up tilt (aka utilt, lightly tapping up and pressing A) is generally considered the hardest. Some characters can angle their ftilts upwards and downwards, and this is an important skill to learn as well.

4: Turn-around Tilts - Turn around tilts are performing the same tilts as above, except you turn around first. This is something many new players don't realise as being important, but it's quite a crucial basic skill.

5: Using c-stick for aerials - You can use the c-stick to perform all of your aerial A attacks. This is important for spacing, as using the control stick will cause your character to move slightly in the direction you attack (if horizontal), possibly cause you to tap jump (if up), or accidentally fast fall (if down).

6: Shield Grabbing - If you press A while holding shield you can perform a grab. You can block several attacks in the game with shield and have enough time to grab your opponent before they are able to react. This most commonly occurs when a player misses their l-cancel, are poorly spaced, or simply used a laggy move in an inappropriate situation.

7: L-canceling - Pressing L right before you land an aerial attack will speed up the landing lag of the attack. This is a very important tech skill, and should be mastered. Once you get the basics down, practice l-canceling against a Bowser with handicap on max and your handicap on the lowest setting. This simulates hitting your opponents shield, which requires a different timing.

8: Double jumping from ledge - Once your character has grabbed the ledge, you have the option to drop from the ledge by pressing back or down. If performed correctly you can jump back on the stage and even have enough time to perform an aerial attack. Simply jumping back on the stage is often better than the basic ledge get up options that you have.

9: Shffling - Combining short hopping, fast falling, and l-canceling is powerful. It is known as Shffling. To perform a Shffl'ed attack, short hop an aerial, fast fall, and l-cancel. This allows for quick, low height, low lag, aerial attacks on your opponent. Use with caution though, because if you mindlessly shffl and opponent they can easily shield grab you.

10: Falling through platforms - A player can fall through a platform if they are holding down when they would normally land on the platform; however, they cannot drop through a platform if they are in any part of an aerial attack animation. Learning to use platforms to your advantage is a major part of smash, and this is the first step in ledge mastery. Learning the timing to delay an aerial until after you have passed through the platform is a crucial, often overlooked, basic skill.

11: Survival DI - This is probably one of the most important skills on this list. DI is a process, and is very hard for most players to get in the habit of, but the sooner you start the better you will be as a player. A lot of new players don't understand exactly what DI is, or more specifically how to learn how to DI. The easiest way to learn survival DI is to be very aware of your own actions rather than your opponents. Whenever you miss with a laggy attack, put in a bad position, or just in general feel very threatened that a big attack is coming your way, learn to input survival DI.

12: Dash dancing - Dash dancing is when you dash back in forth in your dash animation. For clarification, your dash animation is the first part of your run. If you hold a direction for too long you enter your run animation, and you are not able to quickly change direction. This is a very important movement skill to master. It is important that you learn how to dash dance in a variety of controlled ways. Learn the maximum distance of your dash and do max length dash dances. Learn to do very tight, rapid dash dances. A good way to practice precision is to go to Pokemon Stadium and use the markings on the ground as a guide.

13: Out of shield options (OoS) - When you have your shield up, you have more options than spot dodging (pressing down) or rolling (pressing left or right in sheild). As covered by shield grabbing, you can grab out of shield, but you can also jump out of shield. This means you can perform any aerial attack (even a shffl'ed attack) from shield. Keep in mind that there is a time and place for every OoS option, and that none are truly obsolete. Experiment with all your options to learn what is appropriate for a given situation.

14: Wave dashing - When you air dodge into the stage, your character will slide. Performing this purposefully and quickly is known as a wavedash. Most characters benefit from wavedashing, even if their wavedash doesn't seem very impressive. This is a vital movement skill, and should be mastered by all players (even if you are a Jigglypuff main). It is important to note that wavedashing is an OoS option.

15: Learn basic character specific tech - Each character tends to have their own tricks that only they can do. It's very important to learn all of them, but as a beginner player be sure to start with the most basic tech and work your way up.




This covers almost all (if not all) basic tech in smash. From here you should have a very good foundation to work from. Here are a few tips and tricks for learning tech skill:

1: Don't get ahead of yourself. Master the basics before moving onto higher end stuff. You will find that tech skill builds on itself. The more you learn to use your hands, the easier the harder stuff is to learn. Experienced players tend to pick up tech skill very quickly in large part due to the fact that they are so accustomed to existing, similar melee tech. By sticking with the basics first, you set yourself a good pace to learn the game, and your time invested in learning tech is spent in a wiser manner.

2: Practice things slow. Lots of studies show that your body learns muscle memory by simply going through the motions. Try performing a tech skill in practice mode under a slower speed to get a feel for it, and when you have a very high success rate with that trick, speed it up to the next level until you can perform it in normal speed.

3: Practice only a few things at a time. I try not to juggle more than three things at any one time. There is no point in partially mastering 10 things when you could have truly mastered 3 or 4. The sooner you master a technique in practice, the sooner you can try using it in real matches and learn how to use it appropriately.

4: If you don't have much time or patience, practice in short bursts. You will be amazed at how much 5 minutes can do when learning tech. Even if you don't seem to get much out of it during that practice time, you will usually see improvement the next time you play/practice.

5: Stay motivated. A lot of tech practice can be boring, but you have to stick with it if you want to improve. If you need to, mix in a little bit of practice against lvl 7 computers in between your tech training to relieve the monotony and to work on implementing the tech you have already mastered.
 

McSkouvy

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 24, 2013
Messages
2
[collapse="Text Wall"]Here is a link to the Name Entry Glitch you use to play as a single player outside 1-player mode:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyH36Mp7UQ8#t=93 (In case the link doesn't work correctly, it's around 1:30)

Another tip for using this trick is to play in Fixed-Camera mode. This way the games camera system doesn't zoom in so much when you practice alone.


Here is a list of things that new players should work on, starting with easy stuff and moving up a bit. This quick guide assumes no prior knowledge of competitive smash.

1: Short hopping - Lightly tap the jump button (or if you have insane finesse the control stick) to short hop.

2: Learn to fast fall - Pressing down after you reach the highest point of your jump will cause your character to fall quicker. This is used for several situations, shffling, adjusting your spacing to continue combos, mixing up your fall speed to get out of a combo, etc.

3: Tilts - Learn to perform all of your characters tilts on command. Up tilt (aka utilt, lightly tapping up and pressing A) is generally considered the hardest. Some characters can angle their ftilts upwards and downwards, and this is an important skill to learn as well.

4: Turn-around Tilts - Turn around tilts are performing the same tilts as above, except you turn around first. This is something many new players don't realise as being important, but it's quite a crucial basic skill.

5: Using c-stick for aerials - You can use the c-stick to perform all of your aerial A attacks. This is important for spacing, as using the control stick will cause your character to move slightly in the direction you attack (if horizontal), possibly cause you to tap jump (if up), or accidentally fast fall (if down).

6: Shield Grabbing - If you press A while holding shield you can perform a grab. You can block several attacks in the game with shield and have enough time to grab your opponent before they are able to react. This most commonly occurs when a player misses their l-cancel, are poorly spaced, or simply used a laggy move in an inappropriate situation.

7: L-canceling - Pressing L right before you land an aerial attack will speed up the landing lag of the attack. This is a very important tech skill, and should be mastered. Once you get the basics down, practice l-canceling against a Bowser with handicap on max and your handicap on the lowest setting. This simulates hitting your opponents shield, which requires a different timing.

8: Double jumping from ledge - Once your character has grabbed the ledge, you have the option to drop from the ledge by pressing back or down. If performed correctly you can jump back on the stage and even have enough time to perform an aerial attack. Simply jumping back on the stage is often better than the basic ledge get up options that you have.

9: Shffling - Combining short hopping, fast falling, and l-canceling is powerful. It is known as Shffling. To perform a Shffl'ed attack, short hop an aerial, fast fall, and l-cancel. This allows for quick, low height, low lag, aerial attacks on your opponent. Use with caution though, because if you mindlessly shffl and opponent they can easily shield grab you.

10: Falling through platforms - A player can fall through a platform if they are holding down when they would normally land on the platform; however, they cannot drop through a platform if they are in any part of an aerial attack animation. Learning to use platforms to your advantage is a major part of smash, and this is the first step in ledge mastery. Learning the timing to delay an aerial until after you have passed through the platform is a crucial, often overlooked, basic skill.

11: Survival DI - This is probably one of the most important skills on this list. DI is a process, and is very hard for most players to get in the habit of, but the sooner you start the better you will be as a player. A lot of new players don't understand exactly what DI is, or more specifically how to learn how to DI. The easiest way to learn survival DI is to be very aware of your own actions rather than your opponents. Whenever you miss with a laggy attack, put in a bad position, or just in general feel very threatened that a big attack is coming your way, learn to input survival DI.

12: Dash dancing - Dash dancing is when you dash back in forth in your dash animation. For clarification, your dash animation is the first part of your run. If you hold a direction for too long you enter your run animation, and you are not able to quickly change direction. This is a very important movement skill to master. It is important that you learn how to dash dance in a variety of controlled ways. Learn the maximum distance of your dash and do max length dash dances. Learn to do very tight, rapid dash dances. A good way to practice precision is to go to Pokemon Stadium and use the markings on the ground as a guide.

13: Out of shield options (OoS) - When you have your shield up, you have more options than spot dodging (pressing down) or rolling (pressing left or right in sheild). As covered by shield grabbing, you can grab out of shield, but you can also jump out of shield. This means you can perform any aerial attack (even a shffl'ed attack) from shield. Keep in mind that there is a time and place for every OoS option, and that none are truly obsolete. Experiment with all your options to learn what is appropriate for a given situation.

14: Wave dashing - When you air dodge into the stage, your character will slide. Performing this purposefully and quickly is known as a wavedash. Most characters benefit from wavedashing, even if their wavedash doesn't seem very impressive. This is a vital movement skill, and should be mastered by all players (even if you are a Jigglypuff main). It is important to note that wavedashing is an OoS option.

15: Learn basic character specific tech - Each character tends to have their own tricks that only they can do. It's very important to learn all of them, but as a beginner player be sure to start with the most basic tech and work your way up.




This covers almost all (if not all) basic tech in smash. From here you should have a very good foundation to work from. Here are a few tips and tricks for learning tech skill:

1: Don't get ahead of yourself. Master the basics before moving onto higher end stuff. You will find that tech skill builds on itself. The more you learn to use your hands, the easier the harder stuff is to learn. Experienced players tend to pick up tech skill very quickly in large part due to the fact that they are so accustomed to existing, similar melee tech. By sticking with the basics first, you set yourself a good pace to learn the game, and your time invested in learning tech is spent in a wiser manner.

2: Practice things slow. Lots of studies show that your body learns muscle memory by simply going through the motions. Try performing a tech skill in practice mode under a slower speed to get a feel for it, and when you have a very high success rate with that trick, speed it up to the next level until you can perform it in normal speed.

3: Practice only a few things at a time. I try not to juggle more than three things at any one time. There is no point in partially mastering 10 things when you could have truly mastered 3 or 4. The sooner you master a technique in practice, the sooner you can try using it in real matches and learn how to use it appropriately.

4: If you don't have much time or patience, practice in short bursts. You will be amazed at how much 5 minutes can do when learning tech. Even if you don't seem to get much out of it during that practice time, you will usually see improvement the next time you play/practice.

5: Stay motivated. A lot of tech practice can be boring, but you have to stick with it if you want to improve. If you need to, mix in a little bit of practice against lvl 7 computers in between your tech training to relieve the monotony and to work on implementing the tech you have already mastered.[/collapse]
Here are some more things you can practice.

Wave landing - Instead of waiting to reach the apex of your jump and then landing on platforms, air-dodge downwards as soon as you pass over the platform. This allows much faster climbing on maps and allows you to instantly jump again or do an attack.
I don't know where to put it on the list, but I think it's more important than wave dashing.

Teching - after you're hit and your character is tumbling (I don't know if there's a better term for it, but it's when your character lies down after hitting the ground), press l or r before hitting the ground and hold left or right if you want to roll. This can be done on floors, walls and ceilings (I don't know if you can do it as you pass upwards through a platform). This one is harder to do because it requires another player. One thing I've done is to play against 3 level 9 computes on Temple, go to the bottom part of the stage and just let them wail on me while I try to tech every time I hit a surface. If you're not trying to fight them, I don't think it'll form any bad habits, but I'm not sure.
Once again, I don't know where this should go on the list, but probably above wave dashing.

Sweet spotting 3rd jump - learn the areas off-stage where you can 3rd jump, grab the ledge and not get hit.
This one is character specific, so it's at the bottom of the list.

As for DI, I found this in another thread: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=60218. It goes over the three types of DI and gives some information about teching.


Also, thanks for the tip on 1 player vs. I was using a much harder solution that required two controllers; I should've realized that pressing the back button on screen with the second controller is the same as pressing b on the first controller.
 

SAUS

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 20, 2008
Messages
866
Location
Ottawa
I think marth is a bit on the light side.

Out-of-shield options (that I can think of/use):
- Grab. Marth's grab range is really good.
- Wavedash -> grab. This is useful for when they are too far away or behind you to do a regular shield grab.
- Wavedash. Marth's wavedash is good so you can use it to get out of some shield pressure sometimes.
- Short hop dair. Marth's dair hits behind him and it stuns for a pretty long time even at low %, so it's a good option for hitting and then running away. You usually can't combo off of it.
- Short hop aerial. At higher damage and the correct spacing, you can use whatever aerial you want that can hit them.
- Up-b. This to me is usually desperation, but it can kill them if they are in the sweetspot for it and it's especially tricky when you can edge cancel it on a platform.

Keep in mind that sometimes you won't have time for anything other than just wavedashing to get the hell out of there.
 

dRevan64

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 1, 2010
Messages
355
Location
Philly
Hi my name is roll I'm a good out of shield option because I can be buffered with the cstick during pressure please don't forget about me just because I don't look cool I'm your friend I swear
+ everything saus said
 

SAUS

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 20, 2008
Messages
866
Location
Ottawa
Hi my name is roll I'm a good out of shield option because I can be buffered with the cstick during pressure please don't forget about me just because I don't look cool I'm your friend I swear
+ everything saus said
lol yes. I often forget to roll with non-Link characters. Link's other options are too weak to not consider rolling >.<
 

McSkouvy

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 24, 2013
Messages
2
Hi my name is roll I'm a good out of shield option because I can be buffered with the cstick during pressure please don't forget about me just because I don't look cool I'm your friend I swear
+ everything saus said
Yeah, it's alright, but not nearly as good as wave-dashing in most scenarios where you want to move. Maybe I'm a little biased against rolling because I tend to do it too often and get punished for it.
Also, you can buffer a jump with the cstick too; you might be able to buffer a short jump if you do it right.
 

SAUS

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 20, 2008
Messages
866
Location
Ottawa
Yeah, it's alright, but not nearly as good as wave-dashing in most scenarios where you want to move. Maybe I'm a little biased against rolling because I tend to do it too often and get punished for it.
Also, you can buffer a jump with the cstick too; you might be able to buffer a short jump if you do it right.
It's the same thing the other way around. After kind of ruling it out as just a terrible option, some people (like me) forget that it IS and option, and that sometimes it is the best option to use.
 
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