Social Banjo-Kazooie Social Thread - Project Dream Come True!

[Nartic]

O man this is funny, notice how NONE of the figures on his desk orginate(K. Rool/Ridley) from the west or are currently owned by western devs lmao

Did you think Ridley was from the west?

 

[ColtonS25]

Two more points here:

- Being a generic anime-swordsman
- Being part of a franchise Sakurai likes

And people are sick of swordsman because they're not much different from one another, this coupled with the stupid reason why Sakurai always chooses swordsman who are from games that don't give much of an option in terms of moveset. That's the reason why almost every FE are clones, that's why more than HALF of Jokers moves are copy/pasted. People see swordsman as the same because they're being made the same.

O man this is funny, notice how NONE of the figures on his desk orginate(K. Rool/Ridley) from the west or are currently owned by western devs lmao

Wow, you really enjoy recycling these same two talking points, huh? Maybe instead of the constant negativity, you could talk about how there's quite a few Banjo-Kazooie figures out now, and that could be a point in their favor. That could be interesting and not something completely talked to death about.

Anyways, with stuff like the release dates of Super Mario Maker 2 and Marvel Ultimate Alliance 3, new info on Fire Emblem, and other things, I do wonder if we were meant to get a direct of some caliber with all that info in it. It's strange to see announcements for first party games outside of directs as far as I can remember. Yoshi's Crafted World getting dated back in January was the last time in recent memory. Makes me wonder what's going on behind the scenes or potentially at E3.

 

[MissingGlitch]

Anyways, with stuff like the release dates of Super Mario Maker 2 and Marvel Ultimate Alliance 3, new info on Fire Emblem, and other things, I do wonder if we were meant to get a direct of some caliber with all that info in it. It's strange to see announcements for first party games outside of directs as far as I can remember. Yoshi's Crafted World getting dated back in January was the last time in recent memory. Makes me wonder what's going on behind the scenes or potentially at E3.

Sounds like they are trying to make room for E3 news. Or they cancelled the Nintendo Direct they had plans for.

 

[weallfloatdownhere7]

Did you think Ridley was from the west?

Got’em!

 

[Opossum]

Wow, you really enjoy recycling these same two talking points, huh? Maybe instead of the constant negativity, you could talk about how there's quite a few Banjo-Kazooie figures out now, and that could be a point in their favor. That could be interesting and not something completely talked to death about.

Anyways, with stuff like the release dates of Super Mario Maker 2 and Marvel Ultimate Alliance 3, new info on Fire Emblem, and other things, I do wonder if we were meant to get a direct of some caliber with all that info in it. It's strange to see announcements for first party games outside of directs as far as I can remember. Yoshi's Crafted World getting dated back in January was the last time in recent memory. Makes me wonder what's going on behind the scenes or potentially at E3.

The Super Mario Maker 2 release date is suspect, but the Three Houses info in Famitsu isn't out of the ordinary. Shadows of Valentia had something similar, where Famitsu detailed new features that weren't in the original Gaiden during the hype cycle. Namely, the existence of Mila's Turnwheel and more information on non-Gaiden original characters like Faye and Berkut.

 

[Megadoomer]

O man this is funny, notice how NONE of the figures on his desk orginate(K. Rool/Ridley) from the west or are currently owned by western devs lmao

Aside from amiibos, how many figures of K. Rool or Ridley currently exist? The only thing that comes to mind is the First 4 Figures version of Meta Ridley, which isn't out until next year and doesn't ship to Japan.

Also, keep in mind that characters not currently announced for Smash are left out of the image, so the only options for characters that originated outside of Japan (by virtue of Nintendo being a Japanese company, and Nintendo characters making up a huge majority of the game's roster) are Diddy Kong, K. Rool, and Dark Samus.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Sounds like they are trying to make room for E3 news. Or they cancelled the Nintendo Direct they had plans for.

That would make sense, seeing how the Joker gameplay/Stage Builder details were seemingly and randomly pulled out of thin air.

 

[weallfloatdownhere7]

O man this is funny, notice how NONE of the figures on his desk orginate(K. Rool/Ridley) from the west or are currently owned by western devs lmao

Yeah, forget about the fact that Ridley and K Rool are playable fighters and instead focus on how their toys aren’t in the pic

 

[EricTheGamerman]

A LOT of characters that are the most similar have swords, and there's a lot of overlap in each one. 4 Marths, 3 Links, 2 Pits (and a partridge in a pear tree). That's already 9 characters out of 70, with swords who aren't unique at all (in the sense that they have clones). Then you have Dragon Marth, Shulk and Heavy Marth all with counters and so on and so on. Nobody is going to say that Ike and Cloud are clones but they're not as different as DK is from Mario, there's a lot more overlap between the RPG sword fighters than really any other set of characters. Not to mention every character with a sword (except Meta Knight) looks like they're from the exact same game.

Sure you've got characters like Ryu and Ken, or Peach and Daisy, but no other characters aside from their doppelgangers play anything like them.

I'm sure people would complain if there were 7 Star Fox characters, but also Bucky O Hare and Rocket Raccoon and whoever the **** else.

I'm so confused when people criticize specifically the Echoes of sword fighters, their whole point is to be a copy... Calling Ike "Heavy Marth" and Corrin "Dragon Marth" really doesn't help any criticisms you're trying to make either. Besides being from Fire Emblem, having counters, and Ike and Marth both having blue hair, they're nothing alike. You bring up Mario and Donkey Kong, but they're essentially just variations on punching really, one lighter and one heavy. They may be more visually distinctive, but in essence, they do the same things as one another with Mario having a couple extra moves himself.

Pit and Dark Pit have always felt like a stretch to call "sword fighters" too, they have blades that aren't swords at all and don't even use those blades for ANY of their specials.

Two more points here:

- Being a generic anime-swordsman
- Being part of a franchise Sakurai likes

And people are sick of swordsman because they're not much different from one another, this coupled with the stupid reason why Sakurai always chooses swordsman who are from games that don't give much of an option in terms of moveset. That's the reason why almost every FE are clones, that's why more than HALF of Jokers moves are copy/pasted. People see swordsman as the same because they're being made the same.

I'll echo ColtonS25 and say that your negativity and constant disapproval of these more specific points is starting to wear a little thin. It's fine to criticize something you don't like, but there's also way more interesting stuff to talk about and there are probably better venues than this thread for that consistent disdain. Also, Joker's super unique despite borrowing animations and plays unlike any other character. It's a developmental thing that makes things easier. They could have made Joker incredibly unique if they wanted to, he's not a swordsman really at all.

Anyways, with stuff like the release dates of Super Mario Maker 2 and Marvel Ultimate Alliance 3, new info on Fire Emblem, and other things, I do wonder if we were meant to get a direct of some caliber with all that info in it. It's strange to see announcements for first party games outside of directs as far as I can remember. Yoshi's Crafted World getting dated back in January was the last time in recent memory. Makes me wonder what's going on behind the scenes or potentially at E3.

They did similar things in January from what I remember in which we got info on a handful of certain releases that felt like they might potentially belong in Direct This falls in line with that situation and makes sense. I just don't think they have enough for another general Direct AND E3 at this point without it feeling gratuitous or overly winded. They're much better off focusing on individual upcoming releases and saving blowouts for E3 since they're still committed to the convention. A lot of the information they've been communicating as of recent just doesn't feel like it warrants all the pomp and circumstances of a full Nintendo Direct with E3 right around the corner.

That said, I'm a little bit confused as to why the Smash information wasn't just a Direct. It felt very much like the optimal amount of information to reveal in Smash focused Direct, but they decided to stealth drop the information instead. What that signals to me is that they didn't want the next character reveal to be expected, so they chose this strategy. That does lead me to think whoever the next character is will be someone they explicitly want revealed at E3 and potentially alongside some other major announcement.

 

[TheBeastHimself]

B Brothanigus Oh my God notice how Lucas isn't on Sakurai's desk? I knew it. The man hates Japan.

 

[Opossum]

I swear I don't get how we can be this far into Smash as a franchise and people actually think you can play Marth and Roy the same way with no changes in playstyle. Baffling, really.

If you try to play Marth the same way you play Roy, you're gonna be awful at Marth.

 

[Deleted member]

B Brothanigus Oh my God notice how Lucas isn't on Sakurai's desk? I knew it. The man hates Japan.

Thank you. I started choking because of how hard I was laughing after reading this.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I swear I don't get how we can be this far into Smash as a franchise and people actually think you can play Marth and Roy the same way with no changes in playstyle. Bafflingly, really.

If you try to play Marth the same way you play Roy, you're gonna be awful at Marth.

Never mind they only played similarly in Melee alone. And not even that similarly. Their mechanics are different, and there's a reason why their tier spots are so far apart.

That said, as much as I enjoy the echo stack joke with Marth, Lucina, Roy, and Chrom, due to Roy starting off as a Marth clone as is, people actually taking that as more than a joke clearly don't know how Roy plays if they think it's remotely serious. -_-

 

[TheBeastHimself]

I'm gonna be that person and say this. I genuinely think the reason why most (not all) people hate sword characters and claim characters like Marth and Roy are 100% identical is because they don't like that they're "anime". Which to me, once again, makes zero sense because how can you say a Japanese game is at fault for including heavy Japanese influence? These people must have the same problem with the Marvel Cinematic Universe, those damn Americans making 90% of the cast American.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Meanwhile, most people are fully on the Kasumi train, despite the fact that she has a sword, too.

Double-standards, thy name is Smash.

 

[MissingGlitch]

Meanwhile, most people are fully on the Kasumi train, despite the fact that she has a sword, too.

Double-standards, thy name is Smash.

We call that the "This character is an exception to what I complain about because I like the character" defense.

 

[Opossum]

Meanwhile, most people are fully on the Kasumi train, despite the fact that she has a sword, too.

Double-standards, thy name is Smash.

In fairness, most of the folks on the Jane Train Kasumi Karavan aren't the ones to complain about "anime swordsmen." Kinda two different groups.

 

[Deleted member]

Meanwhile, most people are fully on the Kasumi train, despite the fact that she has a sword, too.

Double-standards, thy name is Smash.

It's because it's a hot anime chick, obviously.

You should have seen the Fire Emblem speculation back in the Pre-Brawl era and you will see what i mean.

 

[Deleted member]

anyone still doubt Minecraft in smash?

Just to let you know verge still doesn’t know what the mc content is
View attachment 212341
Why still believe this while others are saying they haven’t heard Minecraft in smash?

 

[TheBeastHimself]

anyone still doubt Minecraft in smash?

I don't doubt it but with Phil Spencer endorsing Banjo and then being in talks with Nintendo, I'd say it's not looking to good for Minecraft in Smash. At least Steve. A stage would be cool, or a Mii Costume if we can't get anything else.

 

[Organization XIII]

So far Verge has gotten nothing right about Smash DLC, and it might be petty, but my god I hope the trend continues. I really want him to go away from Smash speculation.

 

[ChunkySlugger72]

If it was being made first party, I'm sure they would've and it would've been glorious. Instead, they let Stubbins use the license so it was released in their signature style. Think "Funko Pops" for plushies. While it may not be preferred, I actually love how cute it is

Yeah I believe Sony does the same thing with their IP's too with that brand, But I really hope sometime down the line Microsoft/Rare make an "In House" Option of Rare branded merchandise, The same way Nintendo and Pokemon handle theirs.

I would love to have an N64 style Banjo-Kazooie plush on my nightstand next to my Mario, Luigi, Yoshi, Pikachu, DK and Diddy Kong plushies.

 

[SuperiorYoshi87]

anyone still doubt Minecraft in smash?

I mean at this point id be shocked if there isnt some sort of Minecraft Mii costume.. it's not hard to make a Minecraft sword and a block head to shove on a Mii and call it a day....

 

[MissingGlitch]

anyone still doubt Minecraft in smash?

Wait did all of you miss the secret Ender Dragon Boss in the stage builder?

 

[Deleted member]

Wait did all of you miss the secret Ender Dragon Boss in the stage builder?

Let’s not forget the grunty stage

They’re both nothing and Steveposters need to stop being in denial

 

[Mr. Stagg]

I mean at this point id be shocked if there isnt some sort of Minecraft Mii costume.. it's not hard to make a Minecraft sword and a block head to shove on a Mii and call it a day....

One has to wonder WHY some characters are shunted off into the Mii costume bin. So far I have not seen an actual reason why some were created. Speculation on my end would be because in some way, these characters could not be implemented as legit fighters. I theorize that Steve could be Mii costumed in the same way Vince, Ashley, Viridi were. I have a feeling that Sakurai wanted to add more reps from both franchises but he could not find a way to properly implement them due to things like time constraints, lack of material, or other reasons.

 

[MonkeyDLenny]

anyone still doubt Minecraft in smash?

Speaking of Minecraft

GUESS WHO'S BACK

Vergeben has suddenly reappeared and he's still dead set on Minecraft being in Smash in some form

Also he's still backing Erdrick (And being kind of a jerk about it)

 

[MissingGlitch]

He is still acting like Xenother has credibility.

 

[Opossum]

Speaking of Minecraft

GUESS WHO'S BACK

View attachment 212357

Vergeben has suddenly reappeared and he's still dead set on Minecraft being in Smash in some form

Also he's still backing Erdrick (And being kind of a jerk about it)

View attachment 212359

In total fairness to Verge, he's kinda right. Especially on FAQs, where he's active, there is a huge amount of "hear what you want to hear" among the community.

Case in point, and an example he didn't mention, "Blog Theory." It came out of nowhere after Box Theory was gaining traction and many people desperately clung to it because it meant more than just Ken and Incineroar were left, even when the days until release were winding down and the theory couldn't possibly hold true.

 

[ivanlerma]

Speaking of Minecraft

GUESS WHO'S BACK

View attachment 212357

Vergeben has suddenly reappeared and he's still dead set on Minecraft being in Smash in some form

Also he's still backing Erdrick (And being kind of a jerk about it)

View attachment 212359

Guess Who's Back, Back Again, Vergie's Back, Tell a Friend.

 

[osby]

One has to wonder WHY some characters are shunted off into the Mii costume bin. So far I have not seen an actual reason why some were created. Speculation on my end would be because in some way, these characters could not be implemented as legit fighters. I theorize that Steve could be Mii costumed in the same way Vince, Ashley, Viridi were. I have a feeling that Sakurai wanted to add more reps from both franchises but he could not find a way to properly implement them due to things like time constraints, lack of material, or other reasons.

Considering we have playable characters' Mii costumes, that's a very weak argument. Vince, Ashley and Viridi have costumes likely because they already had models that can be used for costumes.

Steve being "Mii costumed" is more akin to Smash 4 Heihachi.

 

[Ayumi Tachibana]

Also Sakurai confirms again that there are 4 more dlc characters. I know he wouldn't announce a 2nd fighter pass yet. But as it stands right now we shouldn't expect a second fighter pass till we are told otherwise.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

I'm kinda little bit worried of the way he worded.
When you count in Japanese you need to add specific "counter" after numbers.
In that tweet Sakurai used "4人 (yo-nin)", which means 4 people. The counter "nin" is only used to count humans. You don't use it to count animals unless you have certain intention. It's just grammatically wrong and sounds super weird.
Smash officials always used "体 (tai)" as counter for the fighters as far as I'm aware. The counter "tai" includes humans and animals or any other behave similar to them (like robots/androids or any sentient beings).
Banjo is a humanoid character so yes "nin" could work, but it still feels very off to me not using "tai". If that was for pokemon, you never use "nin", humanoid or not.
So the tweet gives me an impression that the remaining 4 DLC characters are all human characters or some humanoids if we are lucky. But I just can't see characters like Amaterasu or Agumon from that word.
Maybe this is me thinking too much though. I hope Sakurai worded the way he did just to conceal the DLC character's identities.

 

[MissingGlitch]

I'm kinda little bit worried of the way he worded.
When you count in Japanese you need to add specific "counter" after numbers.
In that tweet Sakurai used "4人 (yo-nin)", which means 4 people. The counter "nin" is only used to count humans. You don't use it to count animals unless you have certain intention. It's just grammatically wrong and sounds super weird.
Smash officials always used "体 (tai)" as counter for the fighters as far as I'm aware. The counter "tai" includes humans and animals or any other behave similar to them (like robots/androids or any sentient beings).
Banjo is a humanoid character so yes "nin" could work, but it still feels very off to me not using "tai". If that was for pokemon, you never use "nin", humanoid or not.
So the tweet gives me an impression that the remaining 4 DLC characters are all human characters or some humanoids if we are lucky. But I just can't see characters like Amaterasu or Agumon from that word.
Maybe this is me thinking too much though. I hope Sakurai worded the way he did just to conceal the DLC character's identities.

Yeah I think you might be looking to far into it. I'm sure he just meant it as fighters/characters.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Speaking of Minecraft

GUESS WHO'S BACK

View attachment 212357

Vergeben has suddenly reappeared and he's still dead set on Minecraft being in Smash in some form

Also he's still backing Erdrick (And being kind of a jerk about it)

View attachment 212359

Despite how much I dislike Verge personally, I’m still curious to see how this plays out. I’m not one to disregard him entirely after the Direct leak and the thing with Minecraft is that he has always been so vague as hell about it except for the Ender Dragon boss thing, so anything Minecraft could validate him there. And Erdrick (a character I still think likely independent of leakers) would certainly validate him and bring him back to the forefront of Smash speculation.

I don’t know if these are based on anything more concrete (Verge was never good at communicating anything about his info) or if he’s just throwing all his Smash eggs into a basket of two characters that could seem likely and hoping for the best.

I’m really not interested in him dominating conversations again, but that doesn’t mean I won’t pay attention when he says things. A LOT of base “leaks” from him came true, so he’s still worth watching with a curious eye from afar even now.

Though, this is the first time in a while I’ve slightly deflated about Banjo’s chances. Which to be fair, I probably needed as I had been getting potentially too confident in things...

 

[Brothanigus]

Did you think Ridley was from the west?

No. People on this site seem to think so. I've had way too many people try using Ridley as an argument to disprove Sakurai's bias, which is a thing.

If there was no bias we wouldn't have gotten 2 characters he wanted(Inceneroar and Joker) over any fan request or western character.

 

[N3ON]

No. People on this site seem to think so. I've had way too many people try using Ridley as an argument to disprove Sakurai's bias, which is a thing.

If there was no bias we wouldn't have gotten 2 characters he wanted(Inceneroar and Joker) over any fan request or western character.

Pokemon Company keeps imploring Sakurai to take from anywhere in the series but he refuses to consider anything but the most recent gen.

Biased *******. He didn't even listen to any of the non-existent popularity for characters that hadn't been publicly revealed yet.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

No. People on this site seem to think so. I've had way too many people try using Ridley as an argument to disprove Sakurai's bias, which is a thing.

If there was no bias we wouldn't have gotten 2 characters he wanted(Inceneroar and Joker) over any fan request or western character.

I mean, I don’t think you can disprove bias, but you can show that he doesn’t exclusively adhere to it and that’s what Ridley shows.

Great, he added two characters he was interested in, one of which being a Pokemon that might as well be mandated by Nintendo at this point and he just went with who he was interested in because it would be impossible to know what Pokemon fans liked before those games even released. He made the best of that situation more or less. And Joker has been wanted by quite a few people, maybe not top tier fan request, but he certainly had supporters and had even showed up on polls in the lower areas.

We’re still five unique fan driven newcomers (Inkling, Ridley, Simon Belmont, King K Rool, and Isabelle to an extent as she had been a major new fan favorite Nintendo character beyond Smash) to the three Sakurai “bias” picks you seem dead set on demonstrating (Incineroar, Piranha Plant, and Joker).

And I feel like pushing the whole Western things falls pretty flat when the only real “Western” fan picks are characters made by Rare like Banjo Kazooie and Dixie Kong, a couple of specific indie reps like Shantae and Shovel Knight who may not have the best shot of getting in to begin with, and then a couple of oddballs like Crash and Rayman... Geno, Isaac, Shadow, Bomberman, Krystal, Waluigi, Bandanna Dee, Captain Toad, Paper Mario, Phoenix Wright, Sora, Ashley: are all “Eastern” characters and rank higher than any “Western” character with the exception of Banjo... I can’t say I’m surprised when Sakurai focuses primarily on “Eastern” characters then.

 

[N3ON]

And I feel like pushing the whole Western things falls pretty flat when the only real “Western” fan picks are characters made by Rare like Banjo Kazooie and Dixie Kong, a couple of specific indie reps like Shantae and Shovel Knight who may not have the best shot of getting in to begin with, and then a couple of oddballs like Crash and Rayman... Geno, Isaac, Shadow, Bomberman, Krystal, Waluigi, Bandanna Dee, Captain Toad, Paper Mario, Phoenix Wright, Sora, Ashley: are all “Eastern” characters and rank higher than any “Western” character with the exception of Banjo... I can’t say I’m surprised when Sakurai focuses primarily on “Eastern” characters then.

Yeah. It is important to note that, with the exception of DK characters, which is still a Japanese IP, there weren't any western characters that became extremely popular until mid-way through Smash 4 last time. And even some characters like Crash and Doom Guy didn't get too demanded until post-ballot.

Historically western demand is a relatively new phenomenon to Smash. At least western demand that could compete with eastern demand. Sure Banjo and the like were requested for Melee, but after that, the clamouring died down for a long long time, until Spencer's tweet.

 

[DMTN]

Vergeben is starting to feel like a parody of himself. Everyone and their mother knows about Erdrick, but Vergeben is presenting this as an epic, groundbreaking leak. It's obvious that he had correct information about the base game, but now he's just being corny.
There's no doubt in my mind that Erdrick is real, but that's because of the datamine, not Vergeben.

 

[TheAnvil]

Yeah. It is important to note that, with the exception of DK characters, which is still a Japanese IP, there weren't any western characters that became extremely popular until mid-way through Smash 4 last time. And even some characters like Crash and Doom Guy didn't get too demanded until post-ballot.

Historically western demand is a relatively new phenomenon to Smash. At least western demand that could compete with eastern demand. Sure Banjo and the like were requested for Melee, but after that, the clamouring died down for a long long time, until Spencer's tweet.

Crash only really became a prevalent choice with fans when N Sane Trilogy came to the Switch.