Social Banjo-Kazooie Social Thread - Project Dream Come True!

[maf91186]

I personally thought Isaac shoulda been in Smash 4 over a 3rd FE rep back in 2012 or whenever I first came up with a hopeful roster for Smash Wii U. Now that we have umpteen rpg sword fighters I am vehemently against his inclusion though.

Please let's not start in on characters who happen to have a sword. That's just a small part of who they are. Much like Banjo and Duck Hunt only share a mammal and bird partnership. Blind hatred is what makes us feel so frustrated as Banjo fans. Let's not put it on others too. We're better than that.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Please let's not start in on characters who happen to have a sword. That's just a small part of who they are. Much like Banjo and Duck Hunt only share a mammal and bird partnership. Blind hatred is what makes us feel so frustrated as Banjo fans. Let's not put it on others too. We're better than that.

Besides, Isaac's AT, while not a good example of all his abilities, still shows that he's not just a swordsman.

 

[dlewis53]

Please let's not start in on characters who happen to have a sword. That's just a small part of who they are. Much like Banjo and Duck Hunt only share a mammal and bird partnership. Blind hatred is what makes us feel so frustrated as Banjo fans. Let's not put it on others too. We're better than that.

Thank you. Besides, I found both those arguments to be kind of dumb anyway.

 

[Lycan Rex]

I feel like Isaac fans got unnecessarily screwed over this time around. The rathalos tweet, the golden sun item, the grinch leak and ultimate catering toward "fan service", I can see why they had such high hopes. All that, only for Nintendo to turn around and say "assist trophy again lol". Of course i don't think sakurai nor nintendo meant anything malicious at all, but it's absolutely understandable why Isaac fans feel the way they do. Good intentions can only go so far.

He should've been one of the first at's shown off. Rip that bandaid off quick.

 

[TheAnvil]

Please let's not start in on characters who happen to have a sword. That's just a small part of who they are. Much like Banjo and Duck Hunt only share a mammal and bird partnership. Blind hatred is what makes us feel so frustrated as Banjo fans. Let's not put it on others too. We're better than that.

I'm not saying Isaac would be a bad character, or that he'd be a clone or anything like that. I'm just saying I've had my fill of rpg sword characters.

 

[N3ON]

I think Banjo and Geno are the only two characters that were popular requests since Smash 64 and have maintained popularity right through to this day.

Only if you count little to no presence on polls or in discussion from pre-Brawl up to Spencer's tweet as having maintained popularity right through. Characters that are thought as (near) impossible aren't going to accrue substantial demand, unless as a joke. And that was Banjo's situation up until recently.

Also a pretty suspect claim about Geno, but that's already been addressed.

Banjo & Kazooie has always been a popular Smash pick and heavily requested, Steve hasn't. His popularity is recent due to leaks. Anyone who says otherwise is telling stories.

Well, listen, I've been around since Brawl and wanted Banjo since the beginning, and I can tell you from first-hand experience that from the Rare purchase to Spencer's tweet, Banjo was treated as a "would be cool but won't happen" kinda candidate, which doesn't land you at the forefront of discussion.

He wasn't "heavily requested" until the ballot. At least not since Melee.

 

[MissingGlitch]

I've just gotten to the point of giving up really. I'm tired of always being anxious about the reveals I'm tired of letting reveals devastate me. So I've just accepted that the fighter pass will have no one I want it in so if there is someone I think is worth while I will be somewhat happy.

I will just have to step away during every reveal to avoid all the bandwagon celebrating because it will do nothing but anger me. Especially if it is Steve.

 

[TheCJBrine]

actually Steve was fairly popular on Miiverse, and I like to think some genuine fans were just silent until "leaks" made him relevant in discussion since previously mentioning Steve and liking him would get you a large amount of harshness from some people (and still does sometimes); I know I was sorta afraid to bring up Minecraft before, since a lot of jerks in forums and people I've seen in YT comments generalize the fanbase as being toxic and immature...which is ironic, since they're being toxic as well and all fanbases have toxic people in them, I've seen plenty of nice people in these fanbases alongside the toxicity.

The trolls who use Steve to bash Banjo-Kazooie fans need to shut up, though, I bet most if not all of them don't even care. Genuine Steve fans shouldn't be bashed either, of course.

 

[Quick Gaming (QG)]

I’m ready for this drought to be over. Just give us Joker and reveal the next fighter (even though it’s probably Erdrick). Seriously though, we first started speculating the SE Rep back in August or last year, I’m ready to know who it is, if anyone at all

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

You keep saying that word. I don't think you know what it means.

People keep conflating the iconic IP, Minecraft, with the interchangeable default skin.

Yeah, we know what it means. And Steve is definitely a gaming icon. He's a fully named character, and recognize due to his design. He's everywhere. And people buy the character's merchandise because they know who he is. He's one of the most recognizable characters even if you don't know the name. Pretty comparable to Link, actually. Most know his name, some think he's named Zelda, but pretty much everybody recognizes his design. Made even better by them both being designed to be avatars at first(Link got defined in a different way, but was pretty blank at first. Zelda II really started to get there). Steve's key difference is that he didn't get named till later, and by the fans alone(which started the Steve? designation for a while), but that changed little since the origins didn't really matter anyway. In the end, both are huge gaming icons that pretty much everybody knows who they are. And the reality is, a lot of characters are not on that level. And as much as I like Banjo, I won't pretend he's that mainstream. He absolutely is an amazing character, and definitely a great option for Smash. But if we're choosing the biggest icons, Steve wins by a mile, really. And since it only furthers help Banjo's chances to get in at a later point, there's really no downside to having the bigger icon in before the lesser icon. It cannot hurt whatsoever with sales or making the game more popular.

Like how people think interchangeable default tunic of Link is iconic?

I think you are grasping at straws to refuse Steve has legit reasons to become a playable fighter at this point.

Sometimes you might as well give up. No point in it when people refuse to accept hard truths about a character's iconic nature.

Plus, Link started as an avatar right away. He evolved to being different in the second game, but his whole point was an interchangeable character. He actually is still an avatar-like design with constantly changing clothes and only a partial default look(even BOTW took the default look away). Him changing shape is actually a notable character feature.

They also make claims that steve in smash would boost Banjo's chances.

Because it will. Banjo is a lesser known character. He's owned by Microsoft. Once Microsoft gets content in Smash, it's far easier to get content in that wasn't already in. This has happened quite often with more than one 3rd party company, with Bamco being the sole exception when it came to playable characters. It'll never hurt to have someone else in first if it only leads to other characters getting in. Banjo first has to be in the game, not even playable, first. If he doesn't become playable right away, he only has anywhere to go but up unless Microsoft no longer wants content in Smash. Which is pretty doubtful. Considering the only company to forego Smash one time was Konami... yet got tons more content in Ultimate, there's far more chances Banjo would be playable in a later game than not(if he doesn't become playable in Ultimate, regardless of whether he appears in the game with the other DLC as a Spirit/Mii Costume/AT or isn't in at all. Though really, I honestly expect Steve, Banjo, and Master Chief to appear in some way as is if Microsoft gets content. Regardless of which one is playable, the others are too big of icons to ignore).

I feel like Isaac fans got unnecessarily screwed over this time around. The rathalos tweet, the golden sun item, the grinch leak and ultimate catering toward "fan service", I can see why they had such high hopes. All that, only for Nintendo to turn around and say "assist trophy again lol". Of course i don't think sakurai nor nintendo meant anything malicious at all, but it's absolutely understandable why Isaac fans feel the way they do. Good intentions can only go so far.

He should've been one of the first at's shown off. Rip that bandaid off quick.

There was no Golden Sun item whatsoever(it's unrelated and just admittedly looks similar). The Rathalos tweet has nothing to do with GS, but is just a nod to JRPG design in general. It literally had JRPG protagonists fighting a dragon. At best it's kind of a Camelot style, but otherwise, had zip to do with GS either way. People took it way out of context. The other two are valid points, but the first two never meant anything.

I do agree he should've been shown off earlier, but it's possible his AT was done later. Possibly Shadow's was done later too(maybe they did try to make him playable but it didn't pan out. Sega said no, and he kept his AT status, but was finished up last minute. Who knows).

 

[weallfloatdownhere7]

Yeah, we know what it means. And Steve is definitely a gaming icon. He's a fully named character, and recognize due to his design. He's everywhere. And people buy the character's merchandise because they know who he is. He's one of the most recognizable characters even if you don't know the name. Pretty comparable to Link, actually. Most know his name, some think he's named Zelda, but pretty much everybody recognizes his design. Made even better by them both being designed to be avatars at first(Link got defined in a different way, but was pretty blank at first. Zelda II really started to get there). Steve's key difference is that he didn't get named till later, and by the fans alone(which started the Steve? designation for a while), but that changed little since the origins didn't really matter anyway. In the end, both are huge gaming icons that pretty much everybody knows who they are. And the reality is, a lot of characters are not on that level. And as much as I like Banjo, I won't pretend he's that mainstream. He absolutely is an amazing character, and definitely a great option for Smash. But if we're choosing the biggest icons, Steve wins by a mile, really. And since it only furthers help Banjo's chances to get in at a later point, there's really no downside to having the bigger icon in before the lesser icon. It cannot hurt whatsoever with sales or making the game more popular.


Sometimes you might as well give up. No point in it when people refuse to accept hard truths about a character's iconic nature.

Plus, Link started as an avatar right away. He evolved to being different in the second game, but his whole point was an interchangeable character. He actually is still an avatar-like design with constantly changing clothes and only a partial default look(even BOTW took the default look away). Him changing shape is actually a notable character feature.


Because it will. Banjo is a lesser known character. He's owned by Microsoft. Once Microsoft gets content in Smash, it's far easier to get content in that wasn't already in. This has happened quite often with more than one 3rd party company, with Bamco being the sole exception when it came to playable characters. It'll never hurt to have someone else in first if it only leads to other characters getting in. Banjo first has to be in the game, not even playable, first. If he doesn't become playable right away, he only has anywhere to go but up unless Microsoft no longer wants content in Smash. Which is pretty doubtful. Considering the only company to forego Smash one time was Konami... yet got tons more content in Ultimate, there's far more chances Banjo would be playable in a later game than not(if he doesn't become playable in Ultimate, regardless of whether he appears in the game with the other DLC as a Spirit/Mii Costume/AT or isn't in at all. Though really, I honestly expect Steve, Banjo, and Master Chief to appear in some way as is if Microsoft gets content. Regardless of which one is playable, the others are too big of icons to ignore).


There was no Golden Sun item whatsoever(it's unrelated and just admittedly looks similar). The Rathalos tweet has nothing to do with GS, but is just a nod to JRPG design in general. It literally had JRPG protagonists fighting a dragon. At best it's kind of a Camelot style, but otherwise, had zip to do with GS either way. People took it way out of context. The other two are valid points, but the first two never meant anything.

I do agree he should've been shown off earlier, but it's possible his AT was done later. Possibly Shadow's was done later too(maybe they did try to make him playable but it didn't pan out. Sega said no, and he kept his AT status, but was finished up last minute. Who knows).

All this talk of choosing the biggest icon is silly when you stop and remember that we’re getting freaking Joker, who is by no means mainstream. He’s popular to hardcore gamers, sure, but most mainstream audiences likely have no idea who he is.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

All this talk of choosing the biggest icon is silly when you stop and remember that we’re getting freaking Joker, who is by no means mainstream. He’s popular to hardcore gamers, sure, but most mainstream audiences likely have no idea who he is.

Sega seems to have refused to put in any actual icon besides Sonic, so they're more like an exception to the rule. All the other 3rd parties are major gaming icons on Steve's level(Bayonetta and Joker are the only two characters who aren't major gaming icons so far. Banjo can easily be the third, though. And while he's not my top Microsoft pick, that'd still be great since it can mean tons of cool Microsoft content in general).

Besides that, Steve is not expected like Banjo has been. Banjo is the "expected pick", so the argument works better against you. The analogy also doesn't work that well since while Banjo is less mainstream, he's still super expected in comparison. There's a major flaw in the comparison here. You either have a character who is expected, or a character who is mainstream. You can't have both if you're talking about Steve or Banjo. Cause neither fit both categories really well. In fact, Erdrick is pretty much in the same boat as Banjo too, a more apt comparison. Highly expected, but not all that mainstream. They're just lesser known in a different way(Banjo is known worldwide, true, but still not all that known. Erdrick is only known in Japan, but not known in the West).

 

[weallfloatdownhere7]

Sega seems to have refused to put in any actual icon besides Sonic, so they're more like an exception to the rule. All the other 3rd parties are major gaming icons on Steve's level(Bayonetta and Joker are the only two characters who aren't major gaming icons so far. Banjo can easily be the third, though. And while he's not my top Microsoft pick, that'd still be great since it can mean tons of cool Microsoft content in general).

Besides that, Steve is not expected like Banjo has been. Banjo is the "expected pick", so the argument works better against you. The analogy also doesn't work that well since while Banjo is less mainstream, he's still super expected in comparison. There's a major flaw in the comparison here. You either have a character who is expected, or a character who is mainstream. You can't have both if you're talking about Steve or Banjo. Cause neither fit both categories really well. In fact, Erdrick is pretty much in the same boat as Banjo too, a more apt comparison. Highly expected, but not all that mainstream. They're just lesser known in a different way(Banjo is known worldwide, true, but still not all that known. Erdrick is only known in Japan, but not known in the West).

Joker belongs to Atlus though. They’re adding Joker solely because of the good relationship Nintendo and Atlus have, as well as because he’s a from a recently successful game of Atlus’. The whole “iconic status” thing really isn’t some kind of requirement at this point. Smash Ultimate seems very much focused on fan service rather some kind of popularity contest.

And Banjo may be wanted by fans, but I definitely wouldn’t say he’s “expected.” He has always had a ton of doubt surrounding him, due to his lack of relevancy and being owned by Microsoft. Also, I don’t know how old you are, but Banjo is very much recognizable to gamers who grew up in the 90s. Just because he’s not very relevant today doesn’t suddenly mean he’s some obscure character

 

[MissingGlitch]

This Is just another loop argument again. Just like the last few times this happens no body wins.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Joker belongs to Atlus though. They’re adding Joker solely because of the good relationship Nintendo and Atlus have, as well as because he’s a more recently popular character. The whole “iconic status” thing really isn’t some kind of requirement at this point. Smash Ultimate seems very much focused on fan service rather some kind of popularity contest.

And Banjo may be wanted by fans, but I definitely wouldn’t say he’s “expected.” He has always has a to of doubt surrounding him, due to his lack of relevancy and being owned by Microsoft. Also, I don’t know how old you are, but Banjo is very much recognizable to gamers who grew up in the 90s. Just because he’s not very relevant today doesn’t suddenly mean he’s some obscure character

Joker belongs to Sega. Sega bought Altus. All of Atlus' properties now are owned by them. It's a Sega property fully. No different from Banjo being a Microsoft property fully. Joker was never expected to get in. People definitely expected Banjo to get in, earlier than Ultimate even. They're both not highly mainstream(though I'd argue Banjo is definitely more known than Joker, but so is Bayonetta).

Banjo has been heavily expected as the sole Microsoft rep for quite a long time. It's a vocal minority, sure, but he's still vastly expected.

Fair enough on the iconic status, but my point was your comparison doesn't work. Also, Ultimate doesn't run on popularity alone either. Most of the fan service was due to popularity alone too. That's literally how Simon, Richter, King K. Rool, Ridley, Dark Samus, and Chrom got in. They're literally one and the same at this point. The first 4 are confirmed ballot picks and "due to fan requests"(which is exactly how Dark Samus and Chrom are described, so there's a heavy implication they're ballot-based too, which is half of the characters shown upon Smash's release. PP appears to have been intended for base, as the datamine shows one cut character, and PP is the only one with a Palutena's Guidance. Half of the original Ultimate roster isn't bad for fanservice/ballot). Joker isn't really "fan service" either, as he isn't exactly about being requested. He's an unexpected pick.

Where did I say Banjo was obscure? He's a lesser gaming icon on Bayonetta's level. He's still an icon, just not on the grand scale that others like Ryu, MegaMan, Steve, Mario, Sonic, Pac-Man, etc. are. They're far bigger ones and way more recognizable. You're reading something I didn't say.

 

[TheAnvil]

This Is just another loop argument again. Just like the last few times this happens no body wins.

Yeah I'm not gonna regurgitate the argument all these pages on, everything he said was disproven pages ago so it's completely pointless to reiterate it all again.

 

[Mr. Stagg]

Yeah I'm not gonna regurgitate the argument all these pages on, everything he said was disproven pages ago so it's completely pointless to reiterate it all again.

All this talk of game sales, iconography, and Merch Lines is absolutely pointless. The main questions that have to be answered are "Does this video game character work as a Smash Brothers fighter?" This can be split into the other requirements Sakurai mentioned before. Things like "Can they show emotion?" And "Do they show personality in their game?", "Can references be pulled from the source material to create a balanced, viable moveset?"

For the pass it divides into 3, "Do they work as a fighter?", "Do they have music potential?", and "Do they have a stage to use?" Nintendo gave Sakurai a list of indeterminate size to pick from, and Sakuri would decide on if they can make a pack out of it.

The point of this thread often diverts from this doctrine because of superficial things like game sales and iconography. Not saying I dont contribute to this diversion, but I feel we need to stick to those main questions. I honestly believe that Banjo and Kazooie fulfill all these questions perfectly, and Steve does not. Everything around that decision is just irrelevant air popcorn. Things like iconography should be discussed through PM'S or created in a separate thread.

 

[TheCJBrine]

I think Steve could fit if they didn't restrict themselves to the fixated pixels of normal Minecraft; Minecraft: Dungeons allows the characters to show emotion and move their limbs better without deviating from Minecraft's style.

tbh they could take minor liberties anyway like making the pixels on his face change and whatever. I doubt Mojang would want them to stick to fixed pixels, that makes no sense. If Sakurai is creative (and he definitely is) they could make Steve into a Smash fighter just fine.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Yeah, Steve fits pretty well and very easily into Smash. So... that isn't an issue whatsoever. Most characters do, really.

 

[GillyGrime]

While I was initially sad to see Isaac as an assist, and felt sorry for his fans, I was so impressed at how the fanbase reacted. Granted they were initially very disappointed, but very quickly the fanbase bounced back with positivity towards having the Mii Costume and the assist being revamped since Brawl, it was so refreshing to see.

But that aside, I think everyone on this site is getting angsty now at the wait for the 2nd DLC fighter. People are also highly anticipating a "Square Enix" fighter and a "Microsoft" fighter, which when the possibility of Geno and Banjo presents itself, makes everyone very eager to find out if it's all just been a red herring.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I do agree he should've been shown off earlier, but it's possible his AT was done later.

I think Isaac's AT shows signs of this:

• His model looks bad even when considering that AT models are lower-poly than fighter ones
• The hands he summons look like recycled Master Hands, which they didn't in Brawl
• His new moves are ones that wouldn't require them to model rocks or plants

 

[Mr. Stagg]

Yeah, Steve fits pretty well and very easily into Smash. So... that isn't an issue whatsoever. Most characters do, really.

No, he does not. It is a major issue no matter how you spin it. Both players need to see what a fighter is doing, and even with the Dungeons adjustments it still looks like a stiff, ugly mess. The models would look unfinished and stale as opposed to the detail all the other fighters have.

Sakurai wants to keep as close to the source material as possible. Steve barely has anything to work with and I doubt giving him different weapons and tools like villager is going to solve it. This also does not distract from the lack of music as well. If so many liberties need to be taken then why go through all the trouble for Steve when Banjo-kazooie's music, stage, and moveset can be so easily worked into Smash?

I'm aware of Sakurai bias, though I doubt even he would want to put in such a conflicting fighter in the game. If anything, Sakurai's enjoyment of Minecraft furthers that point because he would know that the world of Minecraft is more important than the default avatar.

 

[N3ON]

All this talk of game sales, iconography, and Merch Lines is absolutely pointless. The main questions that have to be answered are "Does this video game character work as a Smash Brothers fighter?" This can be split into the other requirements Sakurai mentioned before. Things like "Can they show emotion?" And "Do they show personality in their game?", "Can references be pulled from the source material to create a balanced, viable moveset?"

For the pass it divides into 3, "Do they work as a fighter?", "Do they have music potential?", and "Do they have a stage to use?" Nintendo gave Sakurai a list of indeterminate size to pick from, and Sakuri would decide on if they can make a pack out of it.
View attachment 199507

The point of this thread often diverts from this doctrine because of superficial things like game sales and iconography. Not saying I dont contribute to this diversion, but I feel we need to stick to those main questions. I honestly believe that Banjo and Kazooie fulfill all these questions perfectly, and Steve does not. Everything around that decision is just irrelevant air popcorn. Things like iconography should be discussed through PM'S or created in a separate thread.

That's because Banjo and Steve both meet the criteria, so there's no point to dwell on it.

 

[TheCJBrine]

No, he does not. It is a major issue no matter how you spin it. Both players need to see what a fighter is doing, and even with the Dungeons adjustments it still looks like a stiff, ugly mess. The models would look unfinished and stale as opposed to the detail all the other fighters have.

In my opinion, he'd look fine, even with stiff limbs, at least in my imagination. Not unfinished, just as a different art-style, and they can even use the website's/merchandise's cleaned up colors so it'd fit even better (not that I wouldn't like the ingame appearance). It's not like Sakurai never takes liberties anyway, so I don't see why they wouldn't give him emotion from Dungeons or even just simply change pixels on his face to show it, and I'm sure Mojang would even want it.

There's also plenty of items and stuff they could use where he's not like Villager, Link nor Game & Watch. But we can agree to disagree.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Tomorrow’s the first big day of announcements

 

[ItsMeBrandon]

While we're still getting things back on track, I might as well share a link to a playthrough of Banjo-Kazooie that the Super Gaming Bros. are currently doing.

Actually, let me drop the first part here in the thread:

It's been a lot of fun watching them play B-K, and I'm hoping they get to Tooie. They're about to get to Freezeezy Peak.
If you're interested in seeing 2 B-K fans explain the game to 2 uninitiated people, you might like this playthrough.

 

[weallfloatdownhere7]

Tomorrow’s the first big day of announcements

Any predictions that might relate to the Microsoft/Nintendo collaboration? I’m predicting they’ll announce Cuphead for the Switch

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Any predictions that might relate to the Microsoft/Nintendo collaboration? I’m predicting they’ll announce Cuphead for the Switch

Rare replay on Switch. Sadly wouldn't get Killer Instinct, but definitely will get B&K. Actually, I'm thinking Gamepass will be on there for sure(even if Rare Replay isn't). Are any of the Halos on the Gamepass? I know that Minecraft is on it now(might not be literally right away, though. I don't know when it actually is active on the Gamepass).

 

[Guynamednelson]

Are any of the Halos on the Gamepass?

Most of the series is.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Rare replay on Switch. Sadly wouldn't get Killer Instinct, but definitely will get B&K. Actually, I'm thinking Gamepass will be on there for sure(even if Rare Replay isn't). Are any of the Halos on the Gamepass? I know that Minecraft is on it now(might not be literally right away, though. I don't know when it actually is active on the Gamepass).

Tomorrow is a Nindies direct but Rare Replay on Switch would be great.

I'm hoping for Cuphead and his pal Mugman.

 

[weallfloatdownhere7]

Rare replay on Switch. Sadly wouldn't get Killer Instinct, but definitely will get B&K. Actually, I'm thinking Gamepass will be on there for sure(even if Rare Replay isn't). Are any of the Halos on the Gamepass? I know that Minecraft is on it now(might not be literally right away, though. I don't know when it actually is active on the Gamepass).

I’m referring to the Indie presentation Nintendo is hosting lol so I don’t expect any of that. But maybe some stuff could be announced during GDC?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I’m referring to the Indie presentation Nintendo is hosting lol so I don’t expect any of that. But maybe some stuff could be announced during GDC?

Ohhhhh, that. Yeah, GDC will probably announce one of them.

Tomorrow is a Nindies direct but Rare Replay on Switch would be great.

I'm hoping for Cuphead and his pal Mugman.

Cuphead feels like it has a good chance. Possibly more Deltarune information and a Shantae game.

 

[Mr. Stagg]

Any predictions that might relate to the Microsoft/Nintendo collaboration? I’m predicting they’ll announce Cuphead for the Switch

It's all about the indies so I doubt Rare replay would be announced. Fingers crossed for a Shante Smash Bros announcement.

 

[BKupa666]

Endless poo-flinging over who's the biggest icon is fruitless when Smash additions involve so much more than just going down the totem poll of how many little kids in a focus group can identify a character. It is worth noting users will actively argue icon status doesn't matter when they can gain internet points defending the obligatory new shock character from angry hordes of [insert expected character here] fans, but then develop amnesia and argue [said expected character] is unlikely because they're not as iconic as John Q. Sim or The L-Block.

All this to say, I forget if I shared this in here already, but you Banjo folks may enjoy:

 

[MissingGlitch]

All this to say, I forget if I shared this in here already, but you Banjo folks may enjoy:

Pack it up boys. We did it.

 

[ZoroCarlos]

Endless poo-flinging over who's the biggest icon is fruitless when Smash additions involve so much more than just going down the totem poll of how many little kids in a focus group can identify a character. It is worth noting users will actively argue icon status doesn't matter when they can gain internet points defending the obligatory new shock character from angry hordes of [insert expected character here] fans, but then develop amnesia and argue [said expected character] is unlikely because they're not as iconic as John Q. Sim or The L-Block.

All this to say, I forget if I shared this in here already, but you Banjo folks may enjoy:

It's a joke and all but I actually feel very sorry for that bear

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Endless poo-flinging over who's the biggest icon is fruitless when Smash additions involve so much more than just going down the totem poll of how many little kids in a focus group can identify a character. It is worth noting users will actively argue icon status doesn't matter when they can gain internet points defending the obligatory new shock character from angry hordes of [insert expected character here] fans, but then develop amnesia and argue [said expected character] is unlikely because they're not as iconic as John Q. Sim or The L-Block.

All this to say, I forget if I shared this in here already, but you Banjo folks may enjoy:

It's honestly pointless to not accept facts. We know who the bigger icon is. But that has a pretty reasonable chance of not mattering at the end of the day.

If we keep up with patterns for 3rd party picks, sure, it would matter. But we also know that patterns easily get broken and aren't hard rules. A big thing is that a 3rd party needs some gaming history. It may be a guideline, but it still holds up. Despite some lesser known characters like Bayonetta and Joker getting in, they still have gaming history. They're still rather big games in their own right. Banjo already easily has that going for him. Now, if the biggest icon of a company gets in first, then yeah, Banjo would come in later if that pattern holds. We'd get someone like Steve instead(since Master Chief is apparently disconfirmed. And no, I am not convinced it was more than a ****post tweet, so let's not get into that again. I don't think he was likely playable either way) first. And Banjo later. Banjo feels closer to Geno's situation. A huge fan favorite, but the company has no foot in the door, as well as a character who has no current games and can easily be lower priority due to lack of relevance. So getting in the more relevant character before the next is an understandable way to go about it. Even if Banjo doesn't get in Ultimate, as long as Microsoft has content, he feels like he has a severely high chance of being playable at some point. He feels like Ridley to me in that regard(albeit, I actually wanted Ridley in and I don't care as much about Banjo. Still respect the character though). Highly requested, and would get in at some point, it just might not happen for a while.

 

[Lycan Rex]

All this to say, I forget if I shared this in here already, but you Banjo folks may enjoy:

Guys i figured it out! Steve is innocent! K rool was the one who took banjo spot this whole time!

...

 

[MissingGlitch]

I feel like I keep getting baited because there is stuff I want to say but it will just keep the argument going longer, it's all stuff everyone has heard before, and it will all be considered null and void because "Minecraft is more relevant".

 

[Bubblestand]

It's honestly pointless to not accept facts. We know who the bigger icon is.

Banjo