Bandana Dee, the Spear Master! (v(- ' ' -)>↑ ~ Dee wait is killing us...

[Cutie Gwen]

You know what, Bandana Dee was probably in the same situation as Bowser Jr, only the devs did the latter one instead

 

[Deleted member]

It is extremely suspicious, especially considering how Waddle Dees are the only Smash Run enemy not to have a trophy. Combined with how Waddle Dees were removed from King Dedede's moveset, and how Bandana Dee himself, now being almost as important to the series as King Dedede or Meta Knight, is also absent, something is definitely up, and I see Bandana Dee DLC as the only reasonable explanation for it.

King Dedede losing the Waddle Dees (and Waddle Doos) in his Side Special and his Final Smash being changed isn't really suspect.

You can blame the 3DS for that.

To be fair, Mewtwo, who has trophies in both versions, ended up being the first confirmed DLC character.
Also, the Ice Climbers, who were functioning perfectly on the WiiU version by the time they were cut, appear in both versions as trophies, using their Brawl model. So, at this point, I don't believe that trophies mean anything, so i guess all we can do is wait and see.

Not the same situation.
Mewtwo only proves that having a trophy doesn't prevent a character from being DLC.
The Ice Climbers were given that trophy after they were scrapped; they would've had a standard character trophy instead if they weren't.
We're talking the bizarre case of a lack of a trophy when there is no reason for there not to be one.

 

[Sun & Moon]

King Dedede losing the Waddle Dees (and Waddle Doos) in his Side Special and his Final Smash being changed isn't really suspect.

You can blame the 3DS for that.

Do you really think the 3ds caused such changes? Or Sakurai himself confirmed that?

 

[Wintropy]

Do you really think the 3ds caused such changes? Or Sakurai himself confirmed that?

The 3DS version has difficulties processing too many objects on the screen at once, hence why the Ice Climbers were cut. It seems the most likely reason as to why Dedede's Final Smash is different in this game.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I really, REALLY wish I knew who Sakurai had actually planned in each version.
I hope he writes a memoir one day, it is driving me crazy to know who almost made it.

Do you really think the 3ds caused such changes? Or Sakurai himself confirmed that?

We have every reason to believe that, considering the reduction in number of playable items in the game, such as how many ATs or Pokeballs can be in play at a time, or the fact that the entire list I posted before has been changed because of the number of smaller units it carried on Screen (RAY MK, Excitebike, Ness FS, etc).

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I really, REALLY wish I knew who Sakurai had actually planned in each version.
I hope he writes a memoir one day, it is driving me crazy to know who almost made it.


We have every reason to believe that, considering the reduction in number of playable items in the game, such as how many ATs or Pokeballs can be in play at a time, or the fact that the entire list I posted before has been changed because of the number of smaller units it carried on Screen (RAY MK, Excitebike, Ness FS, etc).

The only logical guesses I have are BDee and He who causes riots

 

[Sun & Moon]

The 3DS version has difficulties processing too many objects on the screen at once, hence why the Ice Climbers were cut. It seems the most likely reason as to why Dedede's Final Smash is different in this game.

I can certainly see that, but why was his side-B changed? The old Waddle Dee Toss wasn't that difficult to process (even though I'm ok with this change).

 

[Wintropy]

I can certainly see that, but why was his side-B changed? The old Waddle Dee Toss wasn't that difficult to process (even though I'm ok with this change).

I think they just wanted to make it better, sugar.

;3

 

[pupNapoleon]

The only logical guesses I have are BDee and He who causes riots

I'm fairy sure Lucas and Wolf were going to be alts.
Ridley I believe was going to be the games attempt at an oversized character.
Chorus Kids, I think, were intended as well to be a three in one, rhythm based I'd assume, not entirely like IC's.

 

[Deleted member]

I can certainly see that, but why was his side-B changed? The old Waddle Dee Toss wasn't that difficult to process (even though I'm ok with this change).

Consider four Dededes each tossing two Waddle Dees/Doos that wander the stage at once.

 

[Crumb Bone]

Consider four Dededes each tossing two Waddle Dees/Doos that wander the stage at once.

Considering how Olimar still can have three Pikmin at a time, I think the 3DS can handle at least one Waddle Dee per King Dedede. And if that didn't work for some reason, they could just make it so Waddle Dees just bounce like Gordos and don't walk at all.

The 3DS version has difficulties processing too many objects on the screen at once, hence why the Ice Climbers were cut. It seems the most likely reason as to why Dedede's Final Smash is different in this game.

Even in the Wii U version, I have been able to make the framerate noticably fall during coin battles, so I don't think a slight framerate drop during an already chaotic Final Smash would be too far out of the question. Even still, there can be up to 12 Pikmin at once on the 3DS version, so I think that they could tweak the Waddle Dee AI to make Waddle Dee Army possible.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Considering how Olimar still can have three Pikmin at a time, I think the 3DS can handle at least one Waddle Dee per King Dedede. And if that didn't work for some reason, they could just make it so Waddle Dees just bounce like Gordos and don't walk at all.

I was under the presumption Dedede only threw Gordos now to improve his moveset, by making it one, less unpredictable (and thus, more competitively viable to perfect), and two, because Gordos were a better item for him.
Also, see below.

Even in the Wii U version, I have been able to make the framerate noticably fall during coin battles, so I don't think a slight framerate drop during an already chaotic Final Smash would be too far out of the question. Even still, there can be up to 12 Pikmin at once on the 3DS version, so I think that they could tweak the Waddle Dee AI to make Waddle Dee Army possible.

Just because you think it could be done doesn't mean it could be programmed, and even if it could, it doesn't mean it would play in a way that would be deemed satisfactory. If it seemed substantially worse than it previously was, it is better that it was just completely changed.

 

[Aunt Jemima]

GUYS

RTDL MODS INCOMING

FOUND OUT MORE STUFF AND NOW RTDL MODDING IS (ALMOST) ON PAR WITH BRAWL MODDING YAY (BUT NOT RLY BUT SORTA CLOSE)

 

[pupNapoleon]

Hm ...rtdl?

 

[AEMehr]

Hm ...rtdl?

Return to Dreamland.

 

[Crumb Bone]

I was under the presumption Dedede only threw Gordos now to improve his moveset, by making it one, less unpredictable (and thus, more competitively viable to perfect), and two, because Gordos were a better item for him.

Also, see below.

I can only speculate as to why Waddle Dee Toss was changed to Gordo Throw, but if Bandana Dee was not planed DLC, it would make more sense to have his side special still involve Waddle Dees in some way. They could still have made it an unpredictable projectile by making the Waddle Dees not walk, so that the Waddle Dees function just like the Gordos in Gordo Throw.


So instead of this...

...we would have this.

Just because you think it could be done doesn't mean it could be programmed, and even if it could, it doesn't mean it would play in a way that would be deemed satisfactory. If it seemed substantially worse than it previously was, it is better that it was just completely changed.

With Rosalina's Final Smash, Power Star, I counted at most 4 star particles on screen at a time for the 3DS version. With Waddle Dee Army, I counted at most 8 minions on screen at a time. They were able to make Olimar work by giving him three instead of six Pikmin, so I think it shows that Waddle Dee Army might be possible with four instead of eight minions on screen at once.

Some Assist Trophies also demonstrate how much the 3DS can handle. Four ghosts can be on screen at once, each with their own separate AI's. I counted three Advance Wars Infantry/Tanks on screen at once. Jeff is able to shoot five homing bottle rockets out (though to be fair, I only saw four out at a time). Dr. Kawashima can create, as I counted, up to four numbers on screen at once. Lakitu can be on screen with at least two Spinies at the same time.

To further help with processing, they could make there only be Waddle Dees in Waddle Dee Army, and simplify the Waddle Dee AI by just making them mindlessly bounce around, somewhat like the star particles from Rosalina's Final Smash.

 

[Shiny Porygon]

To be fair, I think it might have been a bit of a drastic change if Waddle Dees suddenly no longer walked.

Although Gordos aren't as associated with King Dedede as Waddle Dees are, they still fit the role better. Waddle Dees are intended to walk around and act harmless, (which they're able to do in Smash Run), while Gordos are just solitary and are basically incapable of moving.

In the end it was probably easier to just make Gordos fit that role, since they were also originally part of Dedede's side special in Brawl. (I don't know if they acted the same way, though.)

I would say Waddle Dees were already enemies in Smash Run and that's part of the reason, but Gordos are too, so that probably wasn't related to the issue.

 

[Aunt Jemima]

...

Today, only a couple minutes ago, I have just made a possibly groundbreaking discovery about Smash and Kirby. It'll be included in my post with all my modding stuff that's coming later. While I won't say anything right now, @ kirby_queen is going crazy over it.

 

[pupNapoleon]

...

Today, only a couple minutes ago, I have just made a possibly groundbreaking discovery about Smash and Kirby. It'll be included in my post with all my modding stuff that's coming later. While I won't say anything right now, @ kirby_queen is going crazy over it.

When exactly will that be?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

...

Today, only a couple minutes ago, I have just made a possibly groundbreaking discovery about Smash and Kirby. It'll be included in my post with all my modding stuff that's coming later. While I won't say anything right now, @ kirby_queen is going crazy over it.

Well now I'm curious.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Well now I'm curious.

I second that!

 

[Aunt Jemima]

Sorry I've been taking so long to deliver all the stuff I've been talking about. Modding Return to Dream Land is a lot harder than it seems, as nobody has taken the incentive to start it. I'm basically the only one in the world, outside of some Japanese players (although they quit a couple years ago), who is modding RtDL. The fact that no tools are available increases the workload and effort needed to actually change the game. I'm still brainstorming ideas to datamine this game faster, as it'd be much easier to edit the game if I knew what was what, where everything is, and how to change it. At the moment, it's more-so a "click and hope" sort of deal. I change variables around and see how it reacts in-game. Obviously, this is a lot less efficient than the other methods I could go about... but we'll see.

Of course, it's not totally bad. I don't plug in random stuff and hope something comes out - I browse through existing files to see what's what, and then link it up with in-game stuff to find out. This helps me get the basics I need to know, but it really doesn't help when there's over a hundred different tiles for each set.

More info to come soon. I need to get everything ready, such as videos to showcase, pictures, and have to actually write-up everything. Now, my current plan is to have all my stuff out my tomorrow, along with my future plans and how I'll continue this onward so I don't end up quitting or something due to how overwhelming this can be.

In the meantime, does anybody have any requests for what I should mod with the game? While quite a bit of things are out of the realm of possibility right now, throw out any ideas and I'll see what I can do.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Sorry I've been taking so long to deliver all the stuff I've been talking about. Modding Return to Dream Land is a lot harder than it seems, as nobody has taken the incentive to start it. I'm basically the only one in the world, outside of some Japanese players (although they quit a couple years ago), who is modding RtDL. The fact that no tools are available increases the workload and effort needed to actually change the game. I'm still brainstorming ideas to datamine this game faster, as it'd be much easier to edit the game if I knew what was what, where everything is, and how to change it. At the moment, it's more-so a "click and hope" sort of deal. I change variables around and see how it reacts in-game. Obviously, this is a lot less efficient than the other methods I could go about... but we'll see.

Of course, it's not totally bad. I don't plug in random stuff and hope something comes out - I browse through existing files to see what's what, and then link it up with in-game stuff to find out. This helps me get the basics I need to know, but it really doesn't help when there's over a hundred different tiles for each set.

More info to come soon. I need to get everything ready, such as videos to showcase, pictures, and have to actually write-up everything. Now, my current plan is to have all my stuff out my tomorrow, along with my future plans and how I'll continue this onward so I don't end up quitting or something due to how overwhelming this can be.

In the meantime, does anybody have any requests for what I should mod with the game? While quite a bit of things are out of the realm of possibility right now, throw out any ideas and I'll see what I can do.

Is it possible to mod extra abilities?

 

[Aunt Jemima]

Is it possible to mod extra abilities?

I'm not quite sure where the exact limitations are for that, but AFAIK... sorta? I can edit any ability I want, whether it be the actual textures/models featured in the abilities, over to the way it actually works. The main problem is I have no idea where the actual data for how Copy Abilities function is stored. I'm sure I'll find it eventually, but ATM I have no idea where it is. My goal for starting Copy Ability data is to rip the files from Kirby's Dream Collection, and then find the Smash Ability to replace Mike or Crash in RtDL, so I can see how it functions.

Er, to but it in a more simple way...

Yes, and no. I can EDIT abilities to whatever extent I please, but I can't actually add in new ones without replacing current ones.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I'm not quite sure where the exact limitations are for that, but AFAIK... sorta? I can edit any ability I want, whether it be the actual textures/models featured in the abilities, over to the way it actually works. The main problem is I have no idea where the actual data for how Copy Abilities function is stored. I'm sure I'll find it eventually, but ATM I have no idea where it is. My goal for starting Copy Ability data is to rip the files from Kirby's Dream Collection, and then find the Smash Ability to replace Mike or Crash in RtDL, so I can see how it functions.

Er, to but it in a more simple way...

Yes, and no. I can EDIT abilities to whatever extent I please, but I can't actually add in new ones without replacing current ones.

And thus, Sleep was removed in favour of...Mirror? I don't know

 

[Swamp Sensei]

In the meantime, does anybody have any requests for what I should mod with the game? While quite a bit of things are out of the realm of possibility right now, throw out any ideas and I'll see what I can do.

Make Galatica Knight playable.

Same for Magalor.

And Landia.

 

[Aunt Jemima]

And thus, Sleep was removed in favour of...Mirror? I don't know

I dunno.

I kinda wanna replace Meta Knight or DeDeDe with Parasol Dee. Wouldn't take that long, either. Just grab Bandana Dee's model, remove the bandana, replace the spear with the Parasol, and copy Kirby's animations from Parasol over the spear ones. Then I'd be able to bring back my adorable little friend from Super Star!

inb4playablepoppybrosjr

Make Galatica Knight playable.

Same for Magalor.

And Landia.

Well, Galacta Knight is basically already done. Magolor, I dunno. Landia is pretty much already a character cause of the "ability". Unless you mean being able to control their movesets and stuff.. I'd have to re-animate them for every single possible sequence that Kirby and Co. run into.

I dunno, lol. Seeing Magolor, Landia, and Galacta Knight riding the Warp Star through Cookie Country would be hilarious.

 

[kirby_queen]

I think the best reason to Mod Return to Dreamland is to make the game exciting to revisit for veteran players. In crease hazards and difficulty of the main game. If puzzles can be made more complicated and level design also changed that would be great.

OR even just making more awesome Power room challenges as those were a good test of skill utilizing powers.

Also a change in True Arena as well. In crease speed of bosses or the sort of minions they can call. Have Chozos shotzos in the fights to avoid. I actually found Return to Dreamlands True Arena to be one of the more challenging ones because some fights had two sub bosses to fight at the same time.

All of these ideas would be cool.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Chozos

What is this, Metroid? Mind you Kirby meets Samus in Dreamland 3

 

[kirby_queen]

What is this, Metroid? Mind you Kirby meets Samus in Dreamland 3

LMAO omg wrong thing. Sorry I meant Shotzo. Kind of similar sounding. Hahahaha. http://kirby.wikia.com/wiki/Shotzo

 

[Cutie Gwen]

LMAO omg wrong thing. Sorry I meant Shotzo. Kind of similar sounding. Hahahaha. http://kirby.wikia.com/wiki/Shotzo

I've always liked Shotzos for some reason, HAL made a game about the ones with wheels called Trax if I recall

 

[Aunt Jemima]

I broke the game and I don't know how to fix it

pls send help

 

[SS-bros14]

I broke the game and I don't know how to fix it

pls send help

Uh... Try Googling?

 

[Aunt Jemima]

Uh... Try Googling?

*Googles "How to fix broken Return to Dreamland from modding it"*

*clicks Nintendo Support*

y r u mawding our gaem isn't it purrfect U SCRUB >=( - HAL Labs

 

[Call911imonfire]

I broke the game and I don't know how to fix it

pls send help

Oh noes Sending Backup! *Sends B-Dee*

 

[SS-bros14]

*Googles "How to fix broken Return to Dreamland from modding it"*

*clicks Nintendo Support*

y r u mawding our gaem isn't it purrfect U SCRUB >=( - HAL Labs

Get a new game?

 

[Aunt Jemima]

Random, but I thought it was cool. Decrypting some files from the game and I came across these in my latest dump:

Spoiler

They're all from the ending credits scene. It's those little cute screenshots that HAL took to include in it. If anybody wants the one of them on the frame that's in the credits, ask and you shall receive.

Also, could anybody possibly edit them to their original colors, or does the blue tint obscure it too much?

 

[Shiny Porygon]

Is it possible to tamper with unused files?

I was reading through this website, and I checked out the removed attributes from RTD:

http://tcrf.net/Kirby's_Return_to_Dream_Land

There's a few graphics and data there, such as an unused enemy (with complete animations for each enemy-like function, I believe) along with textures for unused Super Abilities, like Super Cutter, or Super Spark. Not only that, but there's also some unused music and SFX.

Is there any way to edit those into the game itself and see how they work, or replace them with other already existing models/characters?

 

[Wintropy]

*Googles "How to fix broken Return to Dreamland from modding it"*

*clicks Nintendo Support*

y r u mawding our gaem isn't it purrfect U SCRUB >=( - HAL Labs

I laughed a disproportionate amount at this.

Get a new game?

And submit to the game's ineffable chastisement? Foolhardy fool! Cadding cad!

Hit the game harder and mod it better, that'll learn it!

 

[Chandeelure]

Today I went to the beach and I wanted to buy a bandana, I failed because I didn't find one.

Buuut, I bought a Mario cap in a little store XD