Balancing Ness

[Thinkaman]

Link to original post: [drupal=690]Balancing Ness[/drupal]



Ness seeks to win though a unique style of offensive aerials, defensive ground options, and

excellent throws.

Ness struggles against characters who outrange him, and those who can gimp his recovery.

+B and Down-B virtually useless.
+Side-B a poor option.
+u-throw and d-throw typically overshadowed by other throws.
+MARF AND DRAGONMAN.

+ Drastically increase B speed; increase shield damage.
+ Reduce Side-B ending lag.
+ Reduce Down-B initial lag, drastically increase wind effect; increase damage multiplier to 2.0, remove 30% cap.
+ Increase f-Smash reflection damage increase to 100%.
+ Drastically increase d-throw damage.
+ Increase u-throw knockback growth.
+ Decrease grab-release lag.
+ Partial super armor on double jump.

Ness wasn't exactly the most deadly knife in the drawer to begin with, and then I go and add a grab-escape system that lets his opponents escape his certain-death b-throw and excellent-setup f-throw...

So, it's only right that Ness be given a large assortment of buffs to put him in line with the rest of the roster. Now Ness has a secondary, less powerful KO throw (up) and a damaging d-throw that will keep them guessing. Otherwise, Ness's now has specials that aren't terrible... though they still don't contribute to his game much... The double jump armor could help his offense and recovery a LOT if used properly; we'd probably make it a very low knockback limit so things don't get too absurd.

 

[OK'Ssuka?]

To be honest, I am somewhat saddened that in the process of potentially balancing the game out with the grab mechanic you have proposed before, Ness would no longer have a very high guaranteed K.O. throw option, which I thought was one of the highlights of playing as Ness, along with his great aerial game...but if this is for balance, then...

I would have liked to have seen Ness' bat as a better viable K.O. move as the main issue with the bat was that it was laggy as heck and anyone would be able to see it pop out and react accordingly without too much trouble. But I guess the other Ness mainers may have better suggestions that this...eh...

All in all, great blog posts. Hopefully they will generate discussion among those interested in seeing characters rebalanced and bring interest in balancing out the game.

 

[Thinkaman]

Well, as I said, I intentionally buffed Ness's often inferior u-throw and d-throws to even out the impact that the grab escpae mechanic has on Ness.

The bat was never a conerstone of Ness's game, Ness being a predominantly aerial character. I thought making the bat an awesomely powerful reflector was a clever trick, but making the f-smash itself a better move is settign out to change the character that Ness is.

 

[OK'Ssuka?]

Hmm...that is true, Ness does personally prefer the air.

I still think that, even with the Bat as a better refletor, the initial lag will be a large enough deterrent from using this as an option. Wouldn't it be better if you kept the buff you suggested, decrease the initial lag of the bat and decrease the knock back and damage capacity of the Bat so that it retains the unique primary function and a more ready viable option as a reflector without it being corner stone to Ness' game?

Just a suggestion...the ending lag I get, but the initial lag is what bugs me...

 

[_clinton]

Marth and Charizard...the "PSI lock" whatever you want to call it doesn't really bug me because a jump break can get him out of it...they are still annoying...but not that annoying IMO...

Ness' PK Fire is not really a poor option...it has its uses...
PK Jump/Firebound/ect.

Dthrow is not worthless as well...at early % is were it shines, it adds to his Fair pretty well...his up throw is ok for dealing with PK Thunder...but yeah overall his Uthrow seems to be the least useful of his throws...

Well...have a nice day...

 

[Thinkaman]

The bat as it stands is a slow, high damaging smash with a strong tipper. The reflection property is a gimmick, and reducing the lag on move makes Ness start to look less like himself and more like Lucas. Ness's f-smash doesn't deserve to be faster any more than Lucas's u-smash does, or any other slow and powerful attack in the game.

clinton, Ness cannot jump break from Marth or Charizard due to their sufficiently fast pummel speed. PK Fire is pretty poor as far as short range projecitles go, as it has tons of lag on Ness's part and the opponent can smash-DI out of the pillar with ease. I mainly judged his d-throw and u-throw as high percent alternatives to b-throw due to the grab escape system. Currently, they would not cut it.

 

[OK'Ssuka?]

I see your point. Even so, I think that the buff you placed upon the Psi Magnet Down B move that Ness has may give Ness mainers more incentive to absorb projectiles than to reflect them...still, you do have a point about the bat being uniquely slow...heh...

[Edit]

This is a rather slow edit, but if the bat is not a cornerstone in Ness' metagame, then why not simply leave the bat as it is and simply buff some of his stronger points? As it is, I'd rather see that the gimmick be dropped off of a situational F-smash in favor of a buff to his throw (perhaps, making u-throw = to b-throw?) or a buff in his aerial game (perhaps make the bair a better kill move than before?)

[/Edit]

In any case, thanks for taking the time to respond to the concerns I raised. Hopefully the project might see a green light, assuming that there are people out in the community who are able to commit to the hacks.

 

[Ref]

Ness is fine as he is... A well spaced Ness is similar to a well spaced wario... Hard to grab if he's not throwing around his specials at bad times.

As for super armor on DJ, that's Yoshi only please. Ness can air dodge instead.

No need to try balance him... Just practice him a lot and you'd see he is a good character.

 

[Thinkaman]

Um, sorry, but Ness is not fine as is, and a "well-spaced Ness" can barely compare to Wario.

Wario has the third best aerial mobility in the game! Ness, meanwhile, is fairly bad in that department ESPECIALLY considering he is a predominantly aerial character. Ness weights much less than Wario, but not to a degree that allows him to easily escape combos.

Wario has terrific recovery if he has his bike (which he should), while Ness has one of the worst recoveries in the game at high-level play. Wario's f-smash and dair are two of the best moves in the game, while Ness merely has great throws, good aerials, and a very lackluster ground game. Wario's specials also have far greater utility than any of Ness's projectiles.

Ness is one of my three secondaries. I know as well as anyone that he can be played well, but have no reason to deny that he is an overall disadvantaged character.

 

[ColinJF]

This whole rebalancing thing is stupid.

Time is better spent worrying about how to get better at the game than how to modify your character to make him better.

Ness only needs one change to make him god tier anyway: pk thunder moves at six times the speed, pk thunder 2 breaks shields and instants kills.

 

[OK'Ssuka?]

God-tier Ness is not what he is going for. And though it is true that the project hasn't been green lit (or may never be green lit), these thoughts could work as a base to build upon for the potential project that SamuraiPanda has proposed. Even if the project is able to become a reality (however incredibly slim that may be), the patches are not going to be tournament standard and may only be for the odd ball tournament one may rarely see.

In any case, the project will not affect you much (or anyone at all assuming the project never gets a green light) so one could still go and practice upon Brawl Ness to get better at the game. At the very least, one could still dream and speculate of the possible changes that could be brought about to Ness (and for that matter, the rest of the cast).