====Bair Chains====

[Republican0fHeaven]

What type of bair pressure do you guys use? Are the types of bair mixups that you use character-dependent for the MU?

I have just started mixing up 2 auto-cancelled bairs followed by a rising full hop bair to a fast fall l-cancelled bair while wavedashing away. I only really shffl bairs when I think they are wait for the auto-cancelled bair and trying to punish oos.

Do you guys stay in the air for 2+ jumps and bair? In what situations? I need some bair chain help

 

[Massive]

Do you guys stay in the air for 2+ jumps and bair? In what situations? I need some bair chain help

This tends to be a more valid strategy on spacies/fastfallers. I've noticed a lot of them love to fullhop in with a nair/dair (even really good players seem to do this frequently) so getting above them with a bair out is a pretty good way to stop what is otherwise a pretty safe approach.

If you train them to stop full-hopping in by leaving an assortment of bairs up there, they are forced to stay low, something far easier for jiggs to handle.

 

[Republican0fHeaven]

This tends to be a more valid strategy on spacies/fastfallers. I've noticed a lot of them love to fullhop in with a nair/dair (even really good players seem to do this frequently) so getting above them with a bair out is a pretty good way to stop what is otherwise a pretty safe approach.

If you train them to stop full-hopping in by leaving an assortment of bairs up there, they are forced to stay low, something far easier for jiggs to handle.

Awesome! Thanks I didn't consider this with spacies, I will try to land less frequently to stop these approaches (also this will decrease their grabbing opportunities, falco's lasers from hitting, and maybe even make avoiding dash cancelled usmashes easier!!!)

 

[PB&J]

If you want to bair a lot Vs fox specifically:

A lot fox players wait for jiggs to land to run in and attack her or grab her, you can just use this information to bait them. Just full hop a double bair and land so when they run in you can immediately short hop a retreating bair. You cant follow up until they are at like 35-40 percent or something then you can grab out of it if they still try to crouch cancel. At higher percents you can just tech chase or something I guess. If you dont space the retreating bair correctly when they are at low percents they can just crouch cancel to upsmash or something..

 

[Republican0fHeaven]

Good advice. When I fight campy foxes that just dash dance and wait for something, I should totally bait stuff and then pop out that retreating bair. Thanks =]

 

[hungrybox]

Bair is such a good move

 

[Varist]

get the **** out hungrybox

 

[S0FT]

Lol yall guys are such idiots when it comes to hungrybox...

He is the only person ever to win big tournaments only using jigglypuff, yet because the majority of the community dislikes him yall dislike him too. I bet most people are just following along with the rest and don't even know what they dislike about his playstyle...

 

[Massive]

Lol yall guys are such idiots when it comes to hungrybox...

He is the only person ever to win big tournaments only using jigglypuff, yet because the majority of the community dislikes him yall dislike him too. I bet most people are just following along with the rest and don't even know what they dislike about his playstyle...

WTF are you talking about?

 

[Republican0fHeaven]

<3 hungrybox

Better than mango imo

he'll get armada's young link soon enough

Retreating bair is such a good move

 

[Republican0fHeaven]

short hop auto cancel bair (in place)
short hop auto cancel bair (approaching)
short hop auto cancel bair (retreating)
wavedash away to get away
wavedash back into grab
full hop rising bair
shffl'd bair (how close can you get the hitbox to the ground)
shffl'd bair wavedash away
full hop rising bair to retreating ff lcancel bair
same as above without the ff
full hop rising bair to ff lcancel bair in place (wavedash if needed)
full hop rising bair, ff, jump to rising bair again (repeat and end with ff Lcancel bair)
after string of full hop rising bairs, full hop late lcancelled bair (retreating or in place)
wavedash if needed
full hop rising bair->ff jump into rising bair-> retreating Lcancelled bair near ground
mix n match these chains

These are the tools, and only some of the options, of a well-used bair game. You should be able to do them all with your eyes closed and at any instant. Don't fall into too much of a pattern with any one of these moves unless the mu requires it. If one of your friends plays doc, practice hitting his pills with bair and not taking damage while he throws them from platforms, sh, full hop, the ground, etc. He'll get practice shooting them and you'll get practice reacting. Also try jumping and hitting the pill as you fall (duh) rather than standing and waiting for it to come to you.:saturn:

 

[Tekk]

what a fancy post RoH, thanks!

 

[Republican0fHeaven]

No problem man.

I know there is a lot to learn with every character in this game. Heck, things are still evolving. But I figured as far as Jiggz goes... BAIR is the core of her moveset... and... airborne spacial mobility (not just horizontal, but also vertical including the complexity of jumps, slow fall, and fast fall) is her most essential asset.

Thus, you not only need to be able to shffl bairs left and right, full hop rising bair, and auto cancel bair etc.......... but you need to understand how to use these moves WITH WELL-TIMED SPACIAL MOBILITY to keep yourself safe while pressuring/hitting your opponent.

For the longest time I didn't realize how my focus should be on approaching, staying in place, retreating WHILE at the same time jumping/fast falling/floating at precisely the right time AFTER I crystallize the tech skill of shffl, autocancel, rising, and empty hop bairs.

I would stare at hungrybox videos and ask myself, what am I doing differently than him? The truth was that I was doing almost exactly the same moveset as him, except full of unnecessary lag frames and lack of spatial mobility.


Now that is the focus of my training.... along with the title of this thread = mixing up bair chains immediately and at any instant

 

[Republican0fHeaven]

I tend to use the A button for rising bairs

And I use C-stick for shffl'd and autocancel bairs

BUT I have trouble autocanceling bairs to the right because I use X to jump and it is a weird finger movement (and you gotta be fast to autocancel it in a short hop)

So I debated using A just for this, but then my mind gets mixed up on whether to use A or C-stick for autocancel'd bairs to the left

>.<

 

[Krynxe]

Yeah, I had sort of the same problems because i use the same button inputs.

I still use c-stick for autocancels though.

 

[Republican0fHeaven]

Guess I just gotta get faster at it then >.<

 

[King5280]

i use z to autocancel bairs.

 

[Republican0fHeaven]

Dunno if I could use Z for aerials. Guess I should try

Hbox uses it

 

[Krynxe]

I am incapable of effectively using my middle finger for R, so I found using Z very difficult.

 

[stelzig]

^There's always L
I rest my forefinger below the R button actually (and hardly ever use R for anything). Don't find it that hard to jump up and hit Z quickly for grabs and stuff... I am not very good at doing aerials with it either though ^x^

 

[Krynxe]

I can only wavedash proficiently with R

and wd oos is super important for puff

 

[Massive]

I can only wavedash proficiently with R

Me too. Wavedashing OoS involves hitting both shield buttons at once for me. It was super rough to become proficient at.

 

[Republican0fHeaven]

Yeah Massive! Same for me... I absolutely NEED the R button for good shield timing and usmash oos and powershielding. I wavedash out of shield with L...

So if I wd oos I use R then L then wd again with R... R->L->R (sometimes another L after this)

I waveland to the left with L and to the right with R haha

But yeah, using Z isn't much of an option for aerials for me cause I have to use my index finger.

 

[Krynxe]

Yeah, and the A button is so warm and welcoming.

 

[Mahone]

i claw and everything is perfect... come on guys get on my level

 

[Strong Badam]

I'd claw to Y with index if I learned to WD w/ L. Man everything would be so much easier.

 

[Krynxe]

Y with index finger? wat.

 

[Massive]

Dem fox-player finger tricks.

Y with index finger makes it easier to jump OoS and do multishine stuff.

I USE X TO JUMP LIKE A MAN.

 

[Republican0fHeaven]

I could imagine Y with index finger being super useful for fox, but not that much better for Jiggz. I need R and can't use my middle finger for it so... oh well.

it is really tough to adopt new finger positions. Muscle Memory >>>

 

[Krynxe]

My thought process was that using index finger for y defeated the purpose because you'd still have to move your fingers around, but I didn't think about using your right thumb for b. The way I usually see people claw is index stuck on B, middle stuck on A, ring stuck on x, thumb for occasional c-stick inputs.

 

[-LzR-]

I never use X. That button is like in middle of nowhere while Y is right there where all the other buttons are.

 

[Krynxe]

I agree 100%

But I also never hold the middle part of my n64 controller and I awkwardly use the analogue stick from the far left handle always, so I don't know if I'm a viable source for controller usage

 

[-LzR-]

I don't really remember what the n64 controller was like, but my hands still hurt from using it.

 

[Strong Badam]

Y with index finger? wat.

Really easy SHFFL uairs if you SH with index Y.

 

[Krynxe]

@LzR
LOL yep. What a good controller.

One time my thumb went completely numb from using that controller for the whole night. I couldn't feel my thumb for like 3 days. It was pretty bad actually

@SB
But shffl uair aren't even difficult in the first place? I guess the uair can come out sooner, idk

 

[Strong Badam]

It's not because of any difficulty, it's for speed and efficiency. There's nothing I can't do with a standard scheme, but there's things I could do better with claw.

 

[Krynxe]

Right, makes sense. I probably wouldn't have too much difficulty adapting to using a claw, because I use fightsticks for every other fighter, but I'd have to essentially re-learn wavedashing with my L button. I've always used R for wd, no exceptions.

If I ever try to get technical with a space animal or something

 

[Mahone]

well i kinda cheat...

i have index on y, middle finger on z, thumb on b, but i use like the joint of my thumb to hit the c-stick, and i use L only, even wd oos, so my fingers like never move lol

 

[Krynxe]

That's interesting.

Do you do that with puff at all? I assume the claw is almost exclusively used for spacies, because it isn't very beneficial otherwise.

 

[Metà]

claw is really useful for peach's float cancels