Autofire/Macro players online - new subtler "tells", not just DI

[B Link]

A warning to online players:

Dash_fox posted a while back about some guy named //richard who used autofire. I just recently played a guy named //christian who didn't exactly use autofire DI, but was using several subtler techniques to win.

Original Thread: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=100030

Definitions:
auto-fire: when you press a button/movement and it gets pressed very fast and repetitively for you.
macro: when you get buttons/movements done for you, possibly in a combination/sequence:

you are not wrong, macro is to record an action or a set of actions (and the timings between them) and map it to a button.
you can make more than just a perfect shine macro, you can make one that does auto shield break and so on.

Obvious signals that a player is using autofire:
- Mario + Luigi: Down B always reaches maximum height (I've never personally seen this)
- excessive DI

Non-subtle signals that a player is using a macro

1. Perfect shield-breaking
Self explanatory.


Subtle signals (I've noticed) that a player might be using a macro (does not necessarily prove they are)


1. When using fox/mario they use extremely simple (to the point where its way too predictable) b move -> grab approaches.

This one is hard to know for sure, since some players use this regularly as part of their style. So it doesn't necessarily mean that they're using a macro.

But if you're noticing that a player inherently can't approach properly so they use the most repetitive techniques ONLY (they can't, say, do sh dair -> uairs with mario alternating with a turn around dbl jump bair) it's because their controls are limited by the macro (i.e. if they press one button they'll do something else).

2. Can't recover properly / too easy to gimp

Every player messes up their recovery sometimes. Also if you gimp a player, it doesn't mean they are using a macro >_>. They could also just be noobs.

Nonetheless, macro players have assigned buttons for their macros, instead of using them as regular buttons. This causes them to mess up their recovery more frequently than others.

3. Short hop-aerial macro

Every advanced player will short hop. but this player does short hop techniques in a way that you can tell it's some sort of repetitive macro. This one is kinda hard to tell, because all decent players use short hop to some degree.


4. No DI

Even advanced players might not DI. Some players just don't know how to DI.

Nonetheless, just from my experience, macro players will tend to have no DI because their controls (i.e keyboard?) don't allow for it. It would be too hard to co-ordinate.Their DI is either non-existent or it can be extreme if they're using autofire.

5. Lagspikes at the end of a match

Ask them to do a lagstat at the end of a match (i.e. when you see the "victory" screen), or you can do a lagstat if you're hosting the game. If you see 10-20 lagspikes right at that moment, for like 5 matches+ and they always reply with this:

"I just resetted a song"
"I just opened youtube"

They're probably using a macro. The lagspikes are due to their macro resetting for every match.
__________________

How to beat these players

- don't play them o_O;?
- don't play like you usually do, there are no mind games involved. Just wait for an opening and get them off the stage and edgeguard. They can't get back on stage because their macro messes them up usually.
- for the macro players who don't DI, use jiggly and do dair -> utilt -> rest combos.
...

People I know FOR SURE who have used it (doesn't mean they always use it):
//richard
//christian
Dmo

The point is to raise awareness about this kind of stuff for those who just are not informed that well. Hopefully some people will find this useful. Have a good day.

 

[Battlecow]

Interesting. I don't think I've ever played against one of these guys (or maybe I have and didn't notice).

Hax DI is pretty common though. I make sure that my online DI is always at least slightly subpar just so that I'm not considered a cheater lol.

 

[Dext3rM.]

there are a lot mr b link just evade playing them i know few persons that are really good just for having a altered DI, if u put them in a console they will suck olso makes me mad cuz is not fair

 

[NovaSmash]

yab, legendary, and dock use macros

 

[SheerMadness]

yab, legendary, and dock use macros

Yah. Not positive about dock, don't play him enough.

Pretty gay playing against yab and legendary though. They DI my lasers 3 feet upwards and then punish me. Lame.

 

[Battlecow]

Leg might just double-finger-mash on KB. I have a friend (Miyagi) who can KB DI just as well- take both hands and mash the **** out of the up and right buttons, and see if you don't get similarly ******** DI. I can do it almost as well myself; I just don't because it'd be cheating and also because I always have trouble getting my hands back into position afterwards.

 

[th3kuzinator]

I think making a list of players who do in this OP (or another post if one were to be made) would be a fantastic idea because it would be great public chastisement which might dissuade the offenders from continuing to use them. That and it would alert other players to their existence.



I know one of Zell/Shiz's friends uses autofire DI (think his tag was blackdog or something similar). I think one or both of them may use it from time to time.

I know Smasher74x uses rapidfire for Mario/Luigi downb recovery.

I remember Sin used to use a macro for platform drop uairs but since I taught him how to do it w/o them I think he's transitioned off them completely.

Leg uses DI macros.

Yab uses DI macros too.

Not sure on Dock but his DI is also pretty insane, but less insane then the two aforementioned.

More will probably come to me as I think about it.

 

[Battlecow]

A list is a meh idea because it'll come down to accusing people whose DI is "too good" or whatever.

Example- Randomnoob: Hey, sheer always keeps doing the shield-break even when I'm poked or already broken halfway through! He must be using a macro!

*posts in this thread*

Now sheer has to somehow prove that he doesn't macro his shieldbreaks. It just turns into a his-word-against-theirs situation.

Why, exactly, is the Leg thing not up for debate? IDK maybe he does macro but why are you so sure? If it's just how good it is- I'm telling you, I seriously know people who can KBSDI just as well (although not with effective followups lol)

 

[th3kuzinator]

A list is a meh idea because it'll come down to accusing people whose DI is "too good" or whatever.

Example- Randomnoob: Hey, sheer always keeps doing the shield-break even when I'm poked or already broken halfway through! He must be using a macro!

*posts in this thread*

Now sheer has to somehow prove that he doesn't macro his shieldbreaks. It just turns into a his-word-against-theirs situation.

Why, exactly, is the Leg thing not up for debate? IDK maybe he does macro but why are you so sure? If it's just how good it is- I'm telling you, I seriously know people who can KBSDI just as well (although not with effective followups lol)

Shield break macros exist?

Wat.

Also I've only listed the people I'm dead sure on. If its up to debate then don't post them. For instance when you get the maxium possible height out of mario's downb 10 times in a row perfectly you know something is up. To mash every single frame in that downb is extremely tough and rarely ever done on its own. You can just tell its a macro when its done in succession.

I remember one game I was playing with leg that I'll never forget. It was DK vs falcon on Dreamland me being the DK. I had just 4 stocked him consecutively in a few previous games so he was pretty pissed at that point. On the third stock I was uair chaining him on the lower platforms on DL at like 60% and I remember one hit brought him literally from in the air on the middle of that platform to about 3 feet off the stage to the right. Like an UNGODLY distance that even two finger smashing at the precise moment would only get you like half that distance. There's no way that was unassisted DI or I'll quit smash.

The others (Zell/Shiz/Blackdog) have all admitted to me that they have used macros in the past when they were bored.

 

[Battlecow]

IDK how you're dead sure on Leg, but yeah, I'd say there's a 75% chance or so that he and yab use macros. Personally, even when he's mad (and I've beaten him enough to get him mad once or twice) he's never shown any impossibly DI to me- only extraordinary DI.

IDK about the shield macros prolly not obviously sheer doesn't macro that was just an example.

 

[th3kuzinator]

ik was just curious as to whether that actually exists

 

[B Link]

People with insane DI wasn't really the point of my post. It was more towards the subtler techniques that would be hard for any player to notice right off the bat.

i.e. The guy I played did not use any DI (so a person might be like hey, that guys safe he's just not DI'ing) but then he could only approach using short hops and dash grabs and was UNABLE to RECOVER at all with fox (he'd firefox straight right when he needed a diagonal one, this is probably because the macro messed him up)

 

[th3kuzinator]

what kind of macros do that wtf?

 

[B Link]

I know it's done in other online games (like, spamming a skill that requires a combination of buttons).

The smash attack one is the one that caught me off guard the most. It was like when you play a Level 9 CPU and get upsmash'd because they can react within a couple of frames.

 

[KnitePhox]

you can't stop people from using this hax di. If a list of names is made people can just make new names/reset ip all that stuff. You can even use macros on controllers. Pretty lame that people use keyboards and hax di. Everyone should use n64 controllers with no hacks di.

 

[B Link]

I edited my post for clarification - I am referring to subtler autofire/macro techniques, not excessive DI (which everyone has the common sense to know about).

 

[NovaSmash]

dannySSB uses rapid fire for mario's recovery

 

[Peek~]

Interesting thread

Now I can keep an eye out for these people

 

[The Star King]

B link, I don't understand how the things in the OP are related to autofires/macroing at all. Can you explain this to me? I hope you know what you're talking about and you won't lead to people being falsely accused.

For instance when you get the maxium possible height out of mario's downb 10 times in a row perfectly you know something is up. To mash every single frame in that downb is extremely tough and rarely ever done on its own.

I'm pretty sure I can do this. I don't think it's that hard. I don't think you have to press B like every other frame for a perfect one >_>

It wouldn't surprise me if Smasherx74 used autofire, though, since he once used a DI macro against me under the name "Masahiro Sakurai".

 

[felipe_9595]

I dont have ami Joy, so for me is imposible to do pivot utilt without a macro to change the configuration (Dont misunderstand, i can do it perfectly on a controller, but i dont have one atm, so i have to use that macro)

Edit:

dannySSB uses rapid fire for mario's recovery

Because he is lazy as ****. He can do a perfect Rising tornado without turbo (i saw it on the nationals) but he doesnt want to **** his controller

 

[The Star King]

If you hold up beforehand you can pivot utilt. I do it all the time.

 

[felipe_9595]

Mmm weird, it jumps when i try it.

 

[blaze3927]

there are some more options for macro that i wouldnt be surprised that quite a few online smashers use:

the obvious:
B rapid
analog rapid (di)

not so obvious
z slow rapid ( for perfect z cancelling)
analog stick range buttons (i.e perfext ff uairs/tilts)


etc.

unfortunately the inbuilt kaillera rapidfire detection doesnt seem to work or is usually disabled.

 

[th3kuzinator]

If you hold up beforehand you can pivot utilt. I do it all the time.

Same. It's just one of those flashy techs that is pretty easy on keyboard.

Mmm weird, it jumps when i try it.

Your maximum stick range is probably over 63. That's the default. If you go higher you can get more DI with each hit (not macros, but still a slight kb hacx di improvement) but you will jump a lot instead of being able to utilt. If you're using nrage put the maximum stick range back to 63 and you should have no problem.

z slow rapid ( for perfect z cancelling)

hmm thats interesting.

unfortunately the inbuilt kaillera rapidfire detection doesnt seem to work or is usually disabled.

This exists?! Is there anyway I can turn this on in my games so I can figure out who is using rapid fire?

 

[The Star King]

Your maximum stick range is probably over 63. That's the default. If you go higher you can get more DI with each hit (not macros, but still a slight kb hacx di improvement) but you will jump a lot instead of being able to utilt. If you're using nrage put the maximum stick range back to 63 and you should have no problem.

Really? I normally use Jabo, but I tried pivot utilts at 100 range with nrage and it still worked.

Speaking of which, 100 range with nrage felt totally fine. I could probably play like this for crazy DI, but I don't really want/need my DI to be that insane >_>

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

I remember //Richard saying he used a SHDL macro lol.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Really? I normally use Jabo, but I tried pivot utilts at 100 range with nrage and it still worked.

Speaking of which, 100 range with nrage felt totally fine. I could probably play like this for crazy DI, but I don't really want/need my DI to be that insane >_>

Hmm maybe its a different version of nrage because i remember when I tried on mine it didn't work.

and on 100 its really amusing to watch the hand for your character moving faster across the screen than a normal one.

oh wait, thats another tell that someone is using that method. Their hand on the movement screen will go faster than the normal limit.

the more you know

 

[B Link]

B link, I don't understand how the things in the OP are related to autofires/macroing at all. Can you explain this to me? I hope you know what you're talking about and you won't lead to people being falsely accused.

Sure, I can see why people might get the wrong idea.

I edited the first post to clarify stuff.

 

[Glöwworm]

I don't know what the input plugin has to do with lag spikes but I know that there is a definite way to see if the person is using autofire (not exactly macros). In Kaillera, when you record, it records the buttons pressed and saves it into a .KREC file. What somebody should do is somehow manage to open this file and have it readable and see the raw button inputs. If there's a thousand consecutive B button inputs (say, for when a mario performs a rising tornado) then that person is definitely using autofire. Something else to test is (in theory) you can record yourself playing and do a rising tornado. Now use autofire and do the same rising tornado. Check out if there's a difference in file size between the auto fire .KREC file and the non-autofire .KREC.

I'd say the former is more accurate.

 

[Zantetsu]

I agree with Glowworm. Find a way to read .KREC files and you'll be able to tell, 100%, if someone is using a maco.

 

[Peek~]

I don't know what the input plugin has to do with lag spikes but I know that there is a definite way to see if the person is using autofire (not exactly macros). In Kaillera, when you record, it records the buttons pressed and saves it into a .KREC file. What somebody should do is somehow manage to open this file and have it readable and see the raw button inputs. If there's a thousand consecutive B button inputs (say, for when a mario performs a rising tornado) then that person is definitely using autofire.

This would be pretty badass if possible

Forget Autofire/Macro players, Id use it for myself

 

[coastercrazy10]

That wouldn't be terribly difficult, assuming the .KREC files aren't encoded in some ridiculous manner. It would probably have to be done after a match so I don't know how much good that would do you, but it's definitely possible.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I legitimately have to use a macro because my controller is ****ed up, i dunno if that counts, but one of the buttons doesn't work so i macro it to another one.

also, is changing your threshold and deadzone TECHNICALLY cheating?

i don't do something crazy and like put my thres at 100%, it's more so like 15 deadzone, 10 thres, when i heard the standard for n64 is like 10 deadzone 60 thres.

 

[Glöwworm]

I legitimately have to use a macro because my controller is ****ed up, i dunno if that counts, but one of the buttons doesn't work so i macro it to another one.

I wouldn't consider that a macro but you should just remap the button to a functioning button on your controller rather than keeping it mapped on the dead button and you resorting to use a macro.

Also, this is another yet crazy but plausible idea about having the correct deadzone and threshold. Shouldn't there be a way for someone savvy at modding N64 controllers to somehow tap into the motherboard (or if there's a chip with the programming in there) and based on what he finds there, he can calculate how much the deadzone/threshold would be if you were to put it in numbers? I remember reading a while back that there's some sort of frequency the N64 controller emits and I'm sure that's measurable and could be calculated into what controller plugins use. It was about how a certain third party controller was too sensitive and the reason was that the controller was emitting a way higher signal rate than the original 64 controller.

EDIT: After thinking this through a bit, it seems like my idea might be flawed. Maybe...

 

[blaze3927]

the kaillera rapidfire detection settings is controlled server side im afraid
I currently have one setup on desiree's at the highest possible setting but i havent had any hits

 

[B Link]

Macro players strike again lol.

Played a guy named DMO today, could only do b moves, fair, fsmash, grab and bair with pikachu. No other moves. Lagged every time I hit him. I used jiggly and he couldn't escape my simple dair utilt combos. Jigglypuff really screws them over lol.

 

[NovaSmash]

Macro players strike again lol.

Played a guy named DMO today, could only do b moves, fair, fsmash, grab and bair with pikachu. No other moves. Lagged every time I hit him. I used jiggly and he couldn't escape my simple dair utilt combos. Jigglypuff really screws them over lol.

i dont get it, how does only using b moves and not being able to di mean that they are using macros? that just sounds like a noob with bad internet to me.

 

[SheerMadness]

I agree with gav, a lot of the stuff you're talking about just sounds like them being a noob...

I told Legendary his macro DI was too pro yesterday and he got really sensitive about it and said he'll never play me again lololol.

 

[B Link]

You haven't played many of them if you don't know what I'm talking about

 

[The Star King]

I agree with gav

I think you're too quick to assume they're using macros bro. I don't think they're that common, especially amongst random noobs on kaillera >_>