Attacks that out-prioritize the glide attack in the air.

[Alopex]

I think this list is needed so that everyone knows what they're getting into against certain characters.

Needless to say, the glide is extremely important to Pit's recovery. Without it, Pit's recovery is very slow and gimpable. The huge priority of the glide attack is what gives Pit a safe way back.

So if someone can reliably stop that, then Pit needs to be very careful. If they can out-prioritize your glide attack, then they can out-prioritize ALL your aerials, and that will end up forcing a WoI on you.

So I think a list is in order and I will need your help with it since I just don't remember everything about every character, but I'll get it started. Not all of these are reliable ways to stop the glide attack, but one should at least be aware of them:

G&W - Fair, Bair, Nair from below, UpB
Meta Knight - Uair, UpB, NeutralB, SideB (Other aerials?)
Marth - Fair, UpB (Nair?)
Olimar - UpB (I have read that Olimar aerials with Blue Pikmin have high priority but haven't had the chance to test it out yet.)
R.O.B - Bair (Fair? Nair? Uair?)
Snake - (Bair?)
Ice Climbers - Uair, UpB (Bair?)
Ganondorf - UpB
Captain Falcon - UpB
Donkey Kong - NeutralB (UpB?)
Bowser - (SideB? UpB?)
Ike - Fair, Bair, Nair
Link - Uair, Zair (Fair? Nair?)
Toon Link - Uair, Zair (Fair? Bair? Nair?)
Zelda - Uair
Sheik - SideB (Bair? Nair?)
Mario - SideB
Samus - Zair
Ness - Fair
Charizard - Fair (Bair? UpB?)
Ivysaur - Bair, Fair, Uair, UpB
Squirtle - UpB
Yoshi - (Bair?)
ZSS - UpB, SideB (Nair?)


Ok, that's what I'm starting with. Some might be wrong, and some might have been forgotten.

I'm not including Dairs because they're not something anyone will use since it's just way too hard to get above a gliding returning Pit, especially if the Pit DI's the launching attack properly.


EDIT for clarification -

This is a list meant to help prevent getting gimped or forced into a dangerous WoI, so I'm only including attacks that can do that. Because of that, grounded attacks won't be included, because those attacks don't pose a threat to your recovery.
Also, projectiles will always stop you, so I don't think they need to be included, since that would be all of them. With good timing you can cancel out most projectiles (I believe lasers and breath attacks [IC's, Bowser, Charizard] are the only exceptions) with your Glair, but you'll still be left without your important glide for a safe return. So always be careful of projectiles. I might add an amendment to this list to include projectiles that pose the most threat (e.g. Zelda's).

 

[Rogue Pit]

A couple of things is wrong with this list. Priority implies 2 things going up against each other and one wins. For example Mach Tornado going up against Pit's Fair. The Fair will lost and the Tornado will keep going.

I think most of the things on your list mainly outreachs Pit's glide attack not out prioritizes it.


G&W - Fair, Bair Nair
I think Fair and Bair does, but not Nair.

Meta Knight - UpB (Aerials?NeutralB)
His Shuttle loop and Mach tornado do Out Prioritizes it

Marth - Fair, UpB (Nair?)
I think his UpB is the only one that does. His Fair and Nair usually is too fast to react to.

Olimar - Fair, Bair, Uair with Blue and Yellow Pikmin (others?)
I've never been stopped by an olimar while using glide attack. His aerial game isn't that well.

R.O.B - Bair (Fair? Nair? Uair?)
I think Bair and Nair might just Cling and Glair has priority over the rest.

Snake - (Bair?)
I think that might just outreach him.

Ice Climbers - (Bair?)
Pretty sure that doesn't

Donkey Kong - NeutralB
That has super armor, it takes damage and still goes. As for the punch it most likely does.

Ike - Fair, Bair, Nair
Bair probably is the only one.

Link - Uair (Fair? Nair?)
His Uair should be the only one, and dair.

Toon Link - Uair (Fair? Bair? Nair?)
Uair and Dair also

Zelda - Uair
Uair and most like Dair, fair and bair sweetspoted

Sheik - (Bair? Nair?)
Doubt any of them

Mario - SideB
Only really turns him around

Ness - Fair
I don't think so but his Dair most likely does.

Charizard - Fair (Bair?)
Charizard's Fair shouldn't be a problem in the beginning it deals damage but no knockback. And Bair outreachs

Ivysaur - Bair, Fair, Uair
Uair yes, Bair and Fair outreachs

Yoshi - (Bair?)
I don't think Bair but i think Dair

ZSS - UpB (Nair?)
Not Nair and i haven't a clue about UpB

Also you said this

So if someone can reliably stop that, then Pit needs to be very careful. If they can out-prioritize your glide attack, then they can out-prioritize ALL your aerials, and that will end up forcing a WoI on you.

This is incorrect, Glair isn't pit's most prioritized attack.Mach Tornado is a good example. It out-priortizes Glide attack, but Nair, Ftilt, Dtilt, and Second slash of FSmash out prioritizes it.

 

[Alopex]

I think most of the things on your list mainly outreachs Pit's glide attack not out prioritizes it.


This is incorrect, Glair isn't pit's most prioritized attack.Mach Tornado is a good example. It out-priortizes Glide attack, but Nair, Ftilt, Dtilt, and Second slash of FSmash out prioritizes it.

In the air, all priority is is the distance between the hitbox and the hurtbox. A move has good priority if the hitbox is far from the hurtbox. This is why disjointed hitboxes have such priority.

So if an attack can outreach the glide attack, then it will beat the glide attack if they are executed at the same time.

Because in the air, attacks don't go through attacks like on the ground. This is why it's common to see two players send each other flying at the same time in the air, whereas this will never happen on the ground because the low-priority attack will get cancelled. Aerial attacks never cling against another aerial attack. They both happen and whichever hitbox hits the opponent's hurtbox first, wins. So reach, especially disjointed reach, is very key.


As for the attacks that have more priority than the Glair, those are all useless to you in the air (except Nair) which is what counts when you're returning to the stage. In terms of aerial priority, I'm fairly certain that the glide attack has the most of any of Pit's.


Because this is a list meant to survive gimping, I'm only including aerials, because aerials and projectiles are the only things that can be used to gimp. Projectiles are handled differently, though, so I don't include them in this list.


Thanks for your input on the list, though. I'll review it and then make edits where appropriate.

 

[Hayang]

First of all, sweet sweet thread. I've been wanting to test this for a long time. I think we should do this for more of Pit's aerials.

And I'm pretty sure Alopex is correct about the definition of priority. When two characters use aerial attacks on each other, one of three things will happen:
1- They'll both miss
2- Both hitboxes of both aerials will cross the hurtboxes of both characters, sending them flying away from each other having recieved the proper amount of damage.
3- The hitbox of character A's aerial will cross the hurtbox of his opponent B, whose aerial's hitbox fails to reach character A's hurtbox. Based on the timing of the clash, the aerial that wins may vary, but the aerial that tends to win more often is said to out-prioritize the other aerial.

I think a lot of people get that confused; someone I saw at a local tournament asked if priority was based on the damage of the aerial or something like that.

In this respect I think initial list is more accurate than Rouge's corrections; a well-placed Marth's or Ike's Fair most probably do out prioritize Pit's glide attack and so on.

I also want to point out that I think Olimar's UpB and Ivysaur's UpB work too, not sure about ZSS's. Also, are we considering Zairs, too? Link's and TL's seem likely to outprioritize the Glair.

 

[Alopex]

I also want to point out that I think Olimar's UpB and Ivysaur's UpB work too, not sure about ZSS's. Also, are we considering Zairs, too? Link's and TL's seem likely to outprioritize the Glair.

Oh yes, totally, I completely forgot about Zairs. Lemme go add those.

As for Olimar and Ivysaur's UpB, yes they would out-prioritize the glide attack (Glair). I'll add those in, but these 2 definitely fall under the "not so reliable" category, along with Marth's UpB, since it leaves them in helpless animation. ZSS's UpB, however, can be used continuously, so it's more reliable.

 

[Ryanarius]

In the air, all priority is is the distance between the hitbox and the hurtbox. A move has good priority if the hitbox is far from the hurtbox. This is why disjointed hitboxes have such priority.

So if an attack can outreach the glide attack, then it will beat the glide attack if they are executed at the same time.

Because in the air, attacks don't go through attacks like on the ground. This is why it's common to see two players send each other flying at the same time in the air, whereas this will never happen on the ground because the low-priority attack will get cancelled. Aerial attacks never cling against another aerial attack. They both happen and whichever hitbox hits the opponent's hurtbox first, wins. So reach, especially disjointed reach, is very key.


As for the attacks that have more priority than the Glair, those are all useless to you in the air (except Nair) which is what counts when you're returning to the stage. In terms of aerial priority, I'm fairly certain that the glide attack has the most of any of Pit's.


Because this is a list meant to survive gimping, I'm only including aerials, because aerials and projectiles are the only things that can be used to gimp. Projectiles are handled differently, though, so I don't include them in this list.


Thanks for your input on the list, though. I'll review it and then make edits where appropriate.

This is correct and to take it a bit further you need to look at the animation of pits glide attack. It first comes out below him and then goes to infront of him. The result of this is that if an aggressive say marth jumps out and fairs at a gliding pit. The pit may start his glair but while its still in its downward attacking phase the marth fair will win. While if the pit predict marth is going to jump out and glairs early to get the foward part of the glair against the fair the glair has a decent chance of winning.

Because of the timing importance this creates and the fact that some attacks will beat the downward striking part while others will beat the foward striking part a really accurate list is hard to make. But a list of what moves will give glide attack trouble is still worth making.

As for the list it seems that projectiles stop it should be noted because a lot of characters best reaction is just to shoot something or throw something at it. Beyond that mk neutral b does beat the glide attack the rest of the moves give it trouble at the least but its still hard to tell if they truly beat the glair. Pretty much every dair beats the glide attack but they'd be hard to get in the right position to work so I probably wouldn't include them.

 

[AndrewCarlson]

Anyone want to test if Peach's F-air outprioritizes Pit's glide attack? I'm in the middle of a debate with the Peach boards regarding their match-up with Pit. Test any of her other aerials if possible.

 

[Rogue Pit]

Well i feel like an idiot, thanks for the enlightenment, to redeem myself Ill contribute to the list.

Link, Samus, and Tink's Zair will overcome it.

Along with Mk's Uair, and Drill rush.

Weegee's Up B

Projectiles like Ryan said.

Falcon and Ganon's Raptor Booster

And squirtle's UpB are some that i can think of.

Also i think his Glair out reachs all that olimar can do.

Also Hayang said

In this respect I think initial list is more accurate than Rouge's corrections; a well-placed Marth's or Ike's Fair most probably do out prioritize Pit's glide attack and so on.

It's not a big deal but i hate being called rouge.

 

[Neb]

|G&W
-Uair (Or at least screws with it)
-Bair
-Fair
-Upb
-Nair (From Below)

 

[DemonicTrilogy]

Ice Climbers
Up air and Up B (for sure) would out prioritize glide attack if they attack from under.

 

[Admiral Pit]

Doesnt Pit have a move of his own to outprioritize his own glide attack? The only things I thought that probably might be possible is the F-tilt, F-air, or Usmash, but im not sure.

 

[kown]

up air out prioritizes it...im pretty sure

 

[Hayang]

I think Charizard and Bowser's flamebreath/thrower would be viable; short or full-hopped flames are a common method of stopping advancing foes.

btw, I see a lot of Pits doing a linear glide that would go a good height above their enemy's head and then swooping down to to do a glide attack, which throws the enemy's timing off the first time but not the next. How else do you change the direction of your gliding approach to mess with your opponent's timing?

Also sorry Rogue; I didn't mean offense.

 

[Admiral Pit]

It's spelled Rogue... G first, then the U. He might hit you with his angelic knee after he grabs you, he did it to me before, but it wasn't from spelling his name wrong...

 

[Hayang]

I didn't even realize.

Spoiler

10apologies

 

[Bnzaaa]

Ice Climber's blizzard would probably beat out a glide attack too? I don't think anyone would like to try that up close.

I also doubt Pit can attack through explosive attacks.

Most attacks end up clashing with the glide attack from my friendlies with Meta Knight users. Any quick attack can leave you safe to attack Pit after he uses a glide attack if they clash. (such as a jab) Snake's up tilt clashes with it, with the hitbox covering his whole body (assuming he's facing Pit,) and is fast enough to deal another tilt or jab before Pit can recover.

I know this thread is about out prioritizing the glide attack, but there are cases where powershielding, or attacking the glide attack gave me more options than trying to beat it, and getting beat.

 

[Alopex]

I know this thread is about out prioritizing the glide attack, but there are cases where powershielding, or attacking the glide attack gave me more options than trying to beat it, and getting beat.

Yes, but then you're not gimping Pit's recovery. That means Pit is free to come back to the stage safely. And that's all that matters. He survived and is back on the stage to keep fighting. That's what Pit wants. If you want to gimp him, you'll need to out-prioritize his Glair. Few characters can do that.



Also, I made an edit to the original post so that people understand that this is a list meant to help you avoid getting gimped. I think everyone can agree that the Glair is the main thing prevent Pit from being forced into a dangerous WoI. That's why you all use it to return to the stage - it's safe. But that safety can be shattered by some attacks, G&W's Fair is probably the most dangerous of all. This list is here to make sure you're aware of when your glide could be compromised.