Ask a quick question, get a quick answer (The Marth FAQ's)

[Jackson]

So is the consensus here that the only real purpose of Pivot Walking is to look flashy?

 

[CURRY]

So is the consensus here that the only real purpose of Pivot Walking is to look flashy?

It's a pretty dang good taunt, though. Not to mention that you can stop in the middle, so you probably won't get punished, or at least you won't get punished as hard when you spin away.

 

[Shaya]

I use it when I have the time/freedom to set up my fingers for it.
Such as when the game just starts, sometimes after throws/smash attacks, when I PS a projectile and start to move in. I put way too much faith in not tripping and generally knowing my dash lengths + jumping OoD spacing that I don't use it as much as what the technique could merit.

 

[mmKALLL]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oGx_H7bHWA
I played some serious matches against a player somewhat better than me. I felt that I was generally in the control and could do whatever, especially in the first match, but still got beaten hard overall. Since I'm not able to look all that unbiasedly at this, I was wondering if the more experienced players could tell me some key points to focus on? (I guess I try to catch people with fsmash and shield breaker too much, but they generally work well around here - there's probably something more fundamentally wrong with my play)

I noticed that there was a notice about a subforum for video critiques, but.. ..I couldn't find one. I'm not sure if that's because the notice is over three years old or what, but.. In the end, I decided to ask about this here.

 

[Shaya]

Best tip I can ever give is, look at where you swing. Are you hitting? Good! If not.. why not? Marth has to be played reactively (imo), and to miss hits or not have them apply pressure in any way is just wasteful.

Basically you could afford to speed up your responses (like you hit with a fair and don't buffer a dash forward after a landing) and also be more precise for when you swing.

 

[-LzR-]

That's what I've told him for the last 2 years.

 

[Zano]

yeah but shaya has magical girls for an avi, more people will listen to him.

or they'll ignore him because he's in the bbr, maybe it just balances out.

 

[smashkng]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oGx_H7bHWA
I played some serious matches against a player somewhat better than me. I felt that I was generally in the control and could do whatever, especially in the first match, but still got beaten hard overall. Since I'm not able to look all that unbiasedly at this, I was wondering if the more experienced players could tell me some key points to focus on? (I guess I try to catch people with fsmash and shield breaker too much, but they generally work well around here - there's probably something more fundamentally wrong with my play)

I noticed that there was a notice about a subforum for video critiques, but.. ..I couldn't find one. I'm not sure if that's because the notice is over three years old or what, but.. In the end, I decided to ask about this here.

You can pick both safer and more rewarding options. For example, @ 1:18 a SHFF Uair would have been unpunishable and in case it hit you would have put Schwa in the air for potentially more Uair juggles. Uair is a great move to harass players from below the plataforms. Try experimenting with FH very early Uair. It can frame trap extremely well on someone who is above you and still rising in the air. How? It catches double jumps very well, is very hard to react to and even if the opponent air dodges the opponent is still usually still above you, being unable to avoid your second aerial you throw out after the Uair. Landing Uairs can also be very good, especially against shields. It can hit someone behind you when you land and unlike Bair is safe on shield when spaced well, though it can be anti-aired easily if the opponent expects it. @ 17:45 Uair would have punished that whiffed DS better because you would have sent Schwa into the air for nearly guaranteed extra juggles. Instead you Faired him at low % to send him back into the center of the stage, resetting into neutral game and making him only take 10% damage when you could have done so much more damage. Uair is a great move in general. It hits with a very nice arc that makes it hit both in front of Marth and behind him. And try to learn to PSs. PSing landing aerials is easier too if you crouch and then shield right before the opponent throws the aerial while landing. That's because if you shield in a situation in which you didn't get hit but if you hadn't crouch you would have gotten hit, you automatically PS. Marth crouches pretty low so that helps. Use more Bair too when the opponent is diagonally above you. It's really safe and rewarding there. Oh and, actually try to auto-cancel your Nairs. That's usually better than getting the 8 frame landing lag. Nair AC very early anyway.

You need to use less shield breaker, Ftilt and Fsmash too. SB simply doesn't hit hard enough to compensate for its slow start-up unless it's fully charged and a good player won't get hit by a fully charged one. I only use SB to either surprise someone with its range (it has the longest horizontal range out of all of Marth's moves), usually out of a run, or to try to break shields every now and then, usually used a short time landing and not from the ground. A problem with SB too is that it doesn't hit like an arc, so it's easy to just jump and hit through the blind spot of Marth's upper part of his body. Ftilt can seem good as an anti-air in theory but jab is overall safer and better because it beats air dodges better, has faster start-up and has less recovery. Don't use Ftilt much other than on BF. And on the ground, Dtilt is much better than Ftilt because it lasts a bit longer, has much lower recovery, Dtilt still hits pretty high and when it hits it combos far better, making it better for gaining momentum. A spaced Ftilt isn't safe on shield either (Marth can shield release, run and DB you no matter how well it's spaced), while Dtilt is only -7 on shield.

Use more Usmash. If you have to choose between punishing with Fsmash or Usmash, Usmash is often the better choice, especially when the opponent is at low %s. It deals an impressive 18% damage or possibly even 22% damage and puts the opponent in the air. For Marth, having the opponent in the air is about just as good as having the opponent offstage. Also nice that you can use it OoS without shield releasing and anytime during a dash. It can catch air dodge landing pretty well. Don't underestimate the hitboxes of Marth's Usmash. Want to know why? Here I can show you it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzAWoZsGpwQ @ 0:45

Marth's Fsmash simply isn't as good as it was in Melee though it's still a pretty useful move. It has much worse hitboxes above Marth and doesn't have nearly as long horizontal range. Don't underestimate Marth's Dsmash either. It has almost as good horizontal range as Marth's Fsmash and faster start-up (6 frames start-up compared to 10-12 frames, around frame 12 when Fsmash hits at the bottom). So you can use Dsmash more reactively than you can with Fsmash, for example when the opponent air dodges into the ground pretty late, you can often react to it with Dsmash but not Fsmash. Don't use Dsmash at low %s because then the opponent gets back to the ground too quickly. But at mid or high %s it can set up nice juggle chances even if it doesn't KO the opponent. Oh and, don't be afraid to Up b every now and then. It can make the opponent have to think twice before just rushing in on you because it beats nearly any kind of commitment except shield or sidestep (though the sidestep can be punished easily on reaction if you don't do anything). DS is a great move and the recovery doesn't matter, other than at low %s, as long as you know when it will hit. It can be used at any time during the dash too thanks to you being able to cancel a jump with Up b, so that's another great thing with DS. FF the DSs afterwards too, to reduce the move's recovery. Oh and, if you already have RCO lag, just Up b for a very quick ledge grab (if you Up b very close to the ledge, you can grab the ledge faster than letting Marth automatically snap it. The only minus is it giving you RCO lag, making it good for regrabs after having grabbed the ledge once too).

Overall, I think you had better neutral game than Schwa, but Schwa capitalized from punishment a lot better than you did, being overall better at keeping the momentum than you were once he gained it and hitting 4 times harder. For example Schwa was taking more advantage of ledge trapping and juggling. Don't be afraid to jump and aerial someone above you. It's usually only a bad idea vs DDD. Marth has the aerials to frame trap the opponent. Watching and analysing Mikeneko videos can also greatly help you understand how to juggle opponents with Marth. My final advice is less Ftilt, Fsmash and SB, more Uair, grab, Dtilt, Dsmash, Usmash, Bair, Up b jab and jump early Fairs.

And pretty much what Shaya said. Your spacing is still very improvable, so keep working on it. Get it on point, then practice to pick the optimal options and position correctly so that you can punish for max damage and keep the momentum for a very long time.

 

[CURRY]

Does DB1 - DB3 have a tipper hitbox? It doesn't seem like it...

Also, what is a frame trap? :|

 

[mmKALLL]

Does DB1 - DB3 have a tipper hitbox? It doesn't seem like it...

Also, what is a frame trap? :|

All dancing blade hits have a tipper hitbox, although the difference is not nearly as big as with most other moves.
I would define frame trapping as putting the opponent in such a situation that their attrative options are punishable due to you having a slight frame advantage. As for frame advantage, it's the difference in time you and your opponent have after an action before being able to do something else.


Also, thanks for the help, everyone!

 

[1PokeMastr]

DB1 tipper knocks upward.
DB1 non tipper knocks away.

 

[mmKALLL]

DB1 tipper knocks upward.
DB1 non tipper knocks away.

In case you've never noticed, DB1 non tipper pops the enemy up too.

I decided to have a look at the data as well and here's what I came back with:
Bone 41, the sword, has two hitboxes - the tipper one deals 4 damage and has a direction of 88 degrees - it hits almost straight up vertically. The nontipper hitbox deals 3 damage and has a direction of 75 degrees, which is still almost directly upwards.
Sure, the hand and arm hitboxes hit away (20 degrees), but I'd imagine them to hit fairly rarely considering how bad the super-close zone is for marth.

 

[1PokeMastr]

DB1 has a much larger "tipper" range.

 

[Pr0fessor Flash]

I Need advice about Marth in doubles because later on I'm going to a tournament!!

 

[Zano]

put your character icon over to metaknight because **** marth in doubles.

 

[Pr0fessor Flash]

put your character icon over to metaknight because **** marth in doubles.

But I don't play MK Plus I would only use my Secondaries depending on what character I'm with plus what if I team with a MK so no matter what I need the Advice

 

[Shaya]

You're a stock tank who generally plays a Marth of no commitment. If you commit with Marth in doubles it usually goes wrong. You are a follow upper-er, and sometimes an initiator. You focus on taking stocks with edge guards.
Don't do full dancing blade unless its completely free to do so. Usually safer just to do the first 3 hits in doubles. Its good for "slowing" down the pace of a single character to have your team mate capitalise.

 

[CURRY]

A lot of the time when I attack, I just get those sparks (clipping the hitbox) or I am too far away...

I only play with CPUs at home... so yeah I don't really know about it much, but should I get in slightly closer....? Or should I still be throwing out those attacks from a long-ish distance?

Again, I don't play with human opponents that much, but is whiffing a fair or DB1-3 like that really punishable?

 

[Shaya]

Again, I don't play with human opponents that much, but is whiffing a fair or DB1-3 like that really punishable?

Completely and utterly yes. Fair maybe not so much if you're using it properly, but if you're going to DB2, you're usually asking to get punished, db3 is a free kill move punish.

 

[ぱみゅ]

I still remember that one time a Level 9 Zelda LK'd me out of a connecting DB3Forward

 

[smashkng]

Fair has to be spaced very well to be that effective. But once you've mastered spacing, you have a ridiculously safe move (compared to almost any other move in the game) which is amazingly versatile (it can combo, safe approach, zone, pressure, be used to punish, ledge trap etc.).

Treat DB as being really unsafe on shield. But you can get away from punish many times when you use it unexpectably. DB1 -> DB2 as quick as possible beats shield grab attempts even if the timing of the shield grab is optimal due to it being -5 on shield. And a lot of people will do that when they just hear something hitting their shield, hence why be unpredictable with DB at times you're not 100% sure it will hit. Going for the down variation in DB3 is usually "somewhat" more safe on shield than the forward one because Marth takes a step backwards, but is still very unsafe so again be unpredictable with it. Mixing up with well spaced aerials (Fair/Uair/Nair) and grabs at burst range (spacing dash grabs at the max unreactable range is REALLY good) really can keep the opponent guessing and very confused. DB is still great for approaching though cause not only it beats sidesteps but it also beats many counter attack attempts by characters with worse range thanks to its range.

Which zone is best for Marth? It depends on the situation and the matchup. In matchups where the opponent has more range than you (like Snake, DK, DDD, ROB, Ike, Olimar and MK), it's usually just outside the opponent's range, where any of their moves they whiff can be punished on reaction. Another good zone in such matchups is the zone in which you can safely dash to shield to get in. It's not that effective against Olimar though cause of his extreme grab range and you being able to jump in well diagonally spaced Fairs relatively safely thanks Olimar's awful priority on his moves. Olimar's only reliable option to beat this is like retreating and pivot grabbing, which obviously is not the best anti-air in the world because of him sacrificing stage control and also being punishable if you predict it and jump more in. Back to dash to shield. When spaced right dash to shield REALLY good, you can punish almost anything OoS they throw at you, even their max range moves, especially when PSing because of the shield sliding into the opponent, so it only really loses to grabs, which are baitable with this kind of approach. And to make it more complicated for the opponent to deal with, you can even space that dash to shield OUTSIDE their grab range so that they have to do a very risky dash grab to beat it. This kind of dash to shield can work very well vs someone like DDD. If you're not in the dash to shield range, walking to shield can still be really good thanks to Marth's very fast walk speed.

In matchups like Falco, being at far range is bad and being at close range, while not bad (Marth has some REALLY good GTFO options, like shielding thanks to his OoS options, DS, even DB and jab are good), isn't the optimal position to be at. Because you outrange Falco's poke tools, throwing out things like Fair and Dtilt are pretty safe and it's easier to punish commitments with moves like DB. Mid range is usually the best position then. Marth's poke tools are pretty safe there. Falco can easily be pressured into having to make a risky commitment with things like Illusion or jab, he can't safely throw out Lasers there. Well executed rushdown is the best way to play against characters like Falco. Rushdown works well because it allows for heavy pressure and the opponent being unable to reposition well enough to properly punish Marth's tools. When the opponent is suffering from heavy pressure, it's very to force them into making very risky commitments which can be punished very severely on reaction. And of course, against characters Marth outranges, he usually has a big advantage in the neutral game. If your spacing is on point, throwing out stuff like a lot of Fair and Nair is very safe and doesn't require as much thinking as in matchups he gets outranged. The aerials also beat out nearly any projectile which isn't trascendent, like Link/TL projectiles, Pit's Arrows and Mario Bros.'s Fireballs.



To summon up, against chars Marth outranges, his best zone is around the tip of his sword and ranges a bit away from the tipper range, where you can zone them out and pressure them hard (you can wall such characters out so if you're playing correctly the opponent should be the one at disadvantage in the neutral game). Against characters who outrange Marth, it's the range just outside their best ranged attacks (unless the move is ridiculously telegraphed of course, like Ganon's Utilt). You still can throw out attacks which usually have too short range to reach the opponent, but if the opponent throws out an attack, it will hit them due to their hurbox extending. This strategy is usually really safe with moves like Fair, which when used right are almost if not impossible to whiff punish. The ranges in which you can dash to shield safely and the burst range are other very good positions in general in nearly all matchups (dash to shield usually has to be mixed with walking even at the best ranges for approaching if the opponent has a projectile. It's good to know though that if you dash back and then forward (like a 1 time dash dance) and afterwards tilting a bit backwards until the first frame which you can shield in which you hold forward (apparently if you don't hold forward, you can't shield as early as when you do), you can make the dash to shield shorter, which can certainly be useful in some situations.

 

[JustinofTime]

i couldn't find a thread about it but i was wondering what do y'all think is the best combination of dancing blade?

 

[smashkng]

It depends on the situation. Most of the time all forward is best, but not always. Going for the up variation of DB4 is good for putting the opponent in a juggle position and it can KO at high percents, especially when tippered. The down variation of DB3 can be safer on shield (though it really isn't in general) because Marth takes a step back. When hitting shields with DB, if you plan carrying on with DB after touching it with DB1, try going for DB2 ASAP (which is bufferable). DB1 to 2 is -5 on shield when done ASAP, so if the opponent attempts to shield grab DB1, he'll get hit by DB2 and therefore the rest of DB. Trust me, it happens pretty often especially in situations the opponent doesn't expect you to DB. DB1 can combo into other things at very high percents (like 150%, at high percents it pops them up more), like grab and Dsmash.

 

[mmKALLL]

Sometimes, doing DB4 down really late might catch an opponent off guard as well, as they will try to punish DB4 forward or get their shield broken. Back in the earlier days of Brawl (when arguably the playstyle of many Marths was more basics-oriented and "cleaner"), some notable Marth players recommended doing DB2 up and DB3 down as a mix-up if the opponent SDI'd out from the full forward DB combo (which happens a lot when level of play gets higher).

But generally you want to do it full forward in all situations if the opponent doesn't SDI out, and up in some situtations against some characters who can be juggled easily.

 

[JustinofTime]

It depends on the situation. Most of the time all forward is best, but not always. Going for the up variation of DB4 is good for putting the opponent in a juggle position and it can KO at high percents, especially when tippered. The down variation of DB3 can be safer on shield (though it really isn't in general) because Marth takes a step back. When hitting shields with DB, if you plan carrying on with DB after touching it with DB1, try going for DB2 ASAP (which is bufferable). DB1 to 2 is -5 on shield when done ASAP, so if the opponent attempts to shield grab DB1, he'll get hit by DB2 and therefore the rest of DB. Trust me, it happens pretty often especially in situations the opponent doesn't expect you to DB. DB1 can combo into other things at very high percents (like 150%, at high percents it pops them up more), like grab and Dsmash.

nice thanks for the tips i usually try to mix up my dancing blades i mainly use all forward and then do the down on DB4 ( still learning the smash lingo i came from playing street fighter) to rack up damage..but thanks ill put this to good use

 

[JustinofTime]

Sometimes, doing DB4 down really late might catch an opponent off guard as well, as they will try to punish DB4 forward or get their shield broken. Back in the earlier days of Brawl (when arguably the playstyle of many Marths was more basics-oriented and "cleaner"), some notable Marth players recommended doing DB2 up and DB3 down as a mix-up if the opponent SDI'd out from the full forward DB combo (which happens a lot when level of play gets higher).

But generally you want to do it full forward in all situations if the opponent doesn't SDI out, and up in some situtations against some characters who can be juggled easily.

i see what you mean i try to delay my DBS sometimes to trick the opponent but thanks for the tips they helped! i dropped maining link and went to marth after seeing what he can do

 

[mmKALLL]

If your opponents aren't all that skilled, DB4 down will work fine, but in my opinion you should not prefer it. It might become a habit that could be nasty to get rid of once your opponents learn how to SDI properly or you advance through the ranks enough.

Funny thing, I went from being a Link main to Marth as well (after a couple of characters).

 

[CURRY]

HOW DOES THIS WORK????
Backwards grab???
Does this have anything to do with dash dancing?
http://gfycat.com/ImpressionableParallelBlackfly

 

[-LzR-]

He simply turns around and grabs. Turn around is only 1 frame if you immediately perform another action so it looks like it's something special. Just carefully press the control stick backwards and input a grab. Don't press the stick too much or you will get a dashgrab like I always do and get wrecked.

 

[CURRY]

Meh. No more gfycat.
http://youtu.be/JyCtGTQhRG4?t=14m59s
How does that work? How does he get out of lying down (Snake dthrow) so quickly?
Like, something special about the platform?

 

[-LzR-]

The Dthrow put Marth just barely out of the edge of the platform. Normally this causes the character to fall and be able to act immediately. In this case the SV platform was moving forward, causing Marth to land on it soon afterwards. If you look carefully you see Marth doing an instant nair because he knows he will fall off and right after he does the nair he lands on the platform, autocanceling and inputting a jab.

 

[-Se7en-]

Question, when Ramin plays he can initiate a dash and dash the other direction without interrupting the first dash. How is this done?

This would drastically help to know against Meta Knights.

 

[Pr0fessor Flash]

Is Side B jump Dair Possible and could work on real a player?

 

[Zano]

it works on snake and, that's pretty much it

 

[-Se7en-]

Whelp, okay Marth Boards.

 

[CURRY]

I'm confused as to where to launch people.

I always thought heavyweights (Snake) were people that you would try to launch to the side, but apparently, you're supposed to launch them up...?
So... where do I launch people like:
-Fox?
-Samus?
-Jiggs?
I'm classifying Fox as a lightweight + fast faller, Samus as a heavyweight + slow faller, and Jiggs as a lightweight + slow faller.
Probably not as dramatic stats as them, but I'm using them as general terms.

Also, what is the best upward killing move out of a dash?
-If Dancing Blade is stale?
-If Dancing Blade is fresh (consider that you have three hits before you get the up finale)
So okay, Dolphin Slash isn't a good option, right? =.=
So our only SIDE killing moves out of dash is a foxtrotted fsmash, and the dash attack, right?

Also, how do people do that thing where they shield out of a dash????
Whenever I try to do that, I always get punished because Marth is ending his dash (those frames when you can press A to execute a dash attack)

Last thing: should I just do a run instead of a dash to kill, maybe? How fast is his run compared to dash?

 

[Xinc]

I was wondering whether it is possible to mixup aerial DB first hit into a fair? I've done it on a friend's MK and GW with much success for the first few matches. I mean, it can deal a bit additional damage and can "combo" into a fair. What do you think?

 

[smashkng]

I'm confused as to where to launch people.

I always thought heavyweights (Snake) were people that you would try to launch to the side, but apparently, you're supposed to launch them up...?
So... where do I launch people like:
-Fox?
-Samus?
-Jiggs?
I'm classifying Fox as a lightweight + fast faller, Samus as a heavyweight + slow faller, and Jiggs as a lightweight + slow faller.
Probably not as dramatic stats as them, but I'm using them as general terms.

Also, what is the best upward killing move out of a dash?
-If Dancing Blade is stale?
-If Dancing Blade is fresh (consider that you have three hits before you get the up finale)
So okay, Dolphin Slash isn't a good option, right? =.=
So our only SIDE killing moves out of dash is a foxtrotted fsmash, and the dash attack, right?

Also, how do people do that thing where they shield out of a dash????
Whenever I try to do that, I always get punished because Marth is ending his dash (those frames when you can press A to execute a dash attack)

Last thing: should I just do a run instead of a dash to kill, maybe? How fast is his run compared to dash?

Marth is a character who has both good horizontal AND vertical KO moves. You don't have to worry all that much about which way to KO as long as you're aware of the KO percents of Marth's moves. Getting the opponent above you is always a great idea, even when you do it with moves you wanted to KO with and it failed to do so. If you become good enough to consistently keep the opponent in unfavorable positions after hitting them, you don't have to worry much about moves KOing very late. Also, learning to be able to consistently tipper will radically change your opinion on how good Marth is at KOing. If you take into account tippering, which is especially possible to do at a rate of prolly 65-70% vs a good player, Marth really has a ton of KO moves. Try learning estimates of KO %s, like from around 160% Marth's front Dsmash KOs Snake without tippering. To KO, I don't really force them from neutral. Instead I make safer decisions, like FH retreating Fair, grab or DB in the right situations which leads to the opponent getting into a bad spot, like the air, offstage having the opponent cornered which is where you can get much more chances of landing KO moves.

No, DS out of dash to KO IS a viable option. You can jump out of dashes anytime you want and jump is cancelable with DS, so yeah. DS has a lot of horizontal and if the opponent tries to intercept your approach with an attacking move, it will beat out that because of all of its invincibility frames starting from frame 1. It sure has all the risks you always have when using Up b (like whiffing or it getting shielded), but if it's going to KO, it's worth the risk. Just be extremely unpredictable with it. Usually for me works when the opponent got into a bad spot and only has a few amount of frames to get out, or when the opponent does something like air dodging into the ground. It's much harder to hit with it from neutral.

BTW, Fsmash and DA are NOT the only side KO moves Marth has out of a dash. And those are too the least viable KO moves to use out of a dash too. Jump early Fair is a much more viable KO move in such a situation and presents much lower risk than foxtrot Fsmash and DA (foxtrot Fsmash is very situational cause you can only use it in particular moments, the other moves can be used ANYTIME). Of course, Usmash is also a good KO move which is usuable out of a dash. Does a very nice 18% damage uncharged (or 22% when Usmash tippers after the first hitbox) when fresh. Try not to whiff Usmash though cause it has a lot of recovery frames. It does have a really good hitbox however and is one of Marth's very few moves which hit both in front of him and behind him. Proof: look at Usmash's hitbox

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzAWoZsGpwQ @ 0:49

You can shield from a dash from frame 17 onwards. But you gotta hold forward by frame 17 to shield that early. Of course, don't press shield too early cause that will lead to inputting roll, but the timing window is huge. The thing with dash though is that by holding back and then immediately after forward while slowly starting to tilt circle backwards you can shorten this dash, which can be useful when you're a bit closer to the opponent. Still remember to hold forward by frame 17 however and try not to input roll by accident. Use dash to shield in spacing a bit further from the opponent. Do NOT use it from too close to the opponent, in such situations if you gotta shield, make use of Marth's awesome walk speed instead. Go to training mode and try learning to space the dashes to shield correctly there. It will help a lot with your ability to approach the opponent.

Dash or run to KO? Doesn't really matter other than fox trot Fsmash, which is risky and very situational, being able to neutral b (which in such a case is used more for spacing than KOing), being able to side b backwards during dash (during run you can still b-reversal DB to do it behind, but for some reason the first hit loses a bit of horizontal range when you b reversal the side b). And if the 1 frame jump start-up to do Up b bothers you (during dash you have to jump cancel the DS, you don't have to during the run animation).

@ Xinc
Do you mean rising DB1 or DB while falling down on a grounded opponent. If you mean rising air DB on a grounded opponent, then yeah Fair is a decent option. But that's because ringing DB1 usually doesn't really combo into anything. If you do a fall down air DB on a grounded opponent, then doing a normal DB combo is more reliable. After the DB the opponent is most of the time in a disadvantaged position anyway. When it comes to using it as an air to air (unless the opponent is really close to the ground so that the DB combo ends on the ground), DB is usually OFFENSIVELY outclassed by other tools Marth has like all of his aerials. Offensively it's mostly only useful for gimping the space animals.

 

[CURRY]

@ Xinc
Do you mean rising DB1 or DB while falling down on a grounded opponent. If you mean rising air DB on a grounded opponent, then yeah Fair is a decent option. But that's because ringing DB1 usually doesn't really combo into anything. If you do a fall down air DB on a grounded opponent, then doing a normal DB combo is more reliable. After the DB the opponent is most of the time in a disadvantaged position anyway. When it comes to using it as an air to air (unless the opponent is really close to the ground so that the DB combo ends on the ground), DB is usually OFFENSIVELY outclassed by other tools Marth has like all of his aerials. Offensively it's mostly only useful for gimping the space animals.

Isn't fair ALONE usually best for downward recovery though? It hits a little bit under Marth (I don't know about DB1) and it autocancels... although usually you're supposed to hit in FRONT of yourself anyways.
DB1 is also an air stall... and so that means you would hang in the air for a bit after getting that hit in.

imo, it's easier for me to actively space fair because I use cstick... but if you use bstick, it might be easier to space the DB1, but I'm not very sure, since you kinda... hang in the air during DB.

 

[mmKALLL]

@ CURRY
While it does matter where to hit enemies, especially so at high percents, you have to take into account that this is Smash. Whatever hit you can manage to land, regardless of whether it kills or not, is more damage and in almost all cases a good thing positioning-wise. Stage control and advantageous situations force the opponent to use options that are riskier than they otherwise might need to use, which can land you the kill. Rather than weights, I think that you should consider the recoveries. For example, Snake has a much easier time recovering from high than low, and you might prefer to keep him close enough to stage to follow up. Then again he is somewhat easy to juggle and Marth is more than capable of tacking on some extra damage with various landing covering options and his aerials.

Which direction to hit in varies a lot by the situation, and more often than not you will do well enough to just get any hit at all. In most cases there isn't a chance to choose between multiple kill moves. While it is true that you would do well to try and kill Snake off the side, and while his weight is one definitive factor in why that is so, it's not even close to being the whole reason. For the most part, you will be able to classify characters in heavyweights, midweights and lightweights, and just learn the various kill percentages for Marth's killing moves versus those weight classes. If there's some notable difference from that classification in a single character, it'll become distinct when learning to play that particular match-up. I wouldn't worry about that too much before you get there.