Ask a quick question, get a quick answer (The Marth FAQ's)

[Jackson]

So apparently campy Marth is good, but how is aggro? I'm leaning toward that play style.

 

[smashkng]

Aggro? Pretty good. Arguably best in the game at that playstyle thanks to his speedy sword to beat out GTFO moves and anti-airs and ability to attack shields pretty well. However before he is that good at it you need to have a high level of ability to control space (in order to be able to attack shields very safely, if you don't have good spacing you can't really do this though) and to zone out opponents. Once you got really good tech skill however he can put offensive pressure on opponents very easily against nearly anyone (well MK's harder because he has the broken safe GSL).

Mikeneko can play slower because he has a ridiculous reaction time. It's pretty inhuman the way he can react to opponent's moves. If you don't have that reaction time though it's easier to just overwhelm the opponent with hard-to-punish aggression like Leon does to force them into doing unsafe and is more doable things to react to.

 

[Shaya]

I don't really think of aggressive/passive at this point. Marth played optimally is safe. Marth played optimally is applying pressure at the same time.

 

[smashkng]

That's really how I mean about his way of playing and how I play. He can be offensive and safe at the same time. With the offensive pressure he can put on opponents he can easily force opponents into making risky commitments once he gets close enough to the opponent, which he can do easy enough for it not to make any of his matchups bad. Your ability to then afterwards read your opponent and adapt to their way of reacting to your pressure is a good test of how good your Marth really is. Of course it depends on the character how easy it is to pressure them. Like pretty much all of the low tiers are extremely lacking in options against that pressure, while the top tiers have better options and can also make it hard for you to get through their long range defense to pressure them in the first place. But even top tiers will eventually have no other option but to guess what the Marth will do (that's why adapting, mixing up with his different safe moves to become unpredictable while not risking too much and outreading them is very important with Marth).

 

[Jackson]

Thanks, good stuff. My spacing is progressively getting better, but I still need to work on attacking shields without getting punished.

 

[Shaya]

Like, realistically there are two match ups Marth plays "passively"

and thats Dedede and Ice Climbers. Only the former would I actively recommend running away from.

 

[1PokeMastr]

And for Dk you just hope that he dies, right ?

 

[smashkng]

I don't think it's that too big of a deal as long as you can consistently keep him in a bad spot. DK's above or in the ledge is an extremely favorable position for Marth so if you consistently do the right thing you can pretty consistently reset the situation in a way in which how long DK lives hardly matters because you can just keep sending him back above you or to the ledge until he eventually gets KOed. DK is also very easy to edge guard with Marth. Plus being the target DK is, once you land a hit he gets comboed so easily for very heavy damage. The only thing which can be a problem is getting in in the first place (because he outranges us and trading with him is usually bad, his spacing tools are very unsafe though) or getting above him (or in the ledge above 100%).

 

[Shaya]

And for Dk you just hope that he dies, right ?

Bait match ups are baitey.

 

[1PokeMastr]

Punch though

 

[Shaya]

No punishment option for shieldbreaker doe.

 

[CURRY]

So okay. Fairs.
I know almost nothing about them. I do SHFF Fair almost literally 99% of the time, but I play against CPUs all the time, so... yeah.
I've read this already, although I'm still not implementing a lot of it... http://smashboards.com/threads/how-to-get-way-better-with-marth.215428/
So isn't full hop Fair the riskiest? I mean, you have a possibility of getting juggled.
Also, I see that rising Fair is almost a staple for Marth in videos. It can lead into Fair or first hit Nair, but isn't the rising Fair risky too?
Retreating Fairs are weird. It's for reading approaches, right?

Now.... Dancing Blade. How often should I be using it every 10 moves? Every time I start my DB, it's probably fresh because I've Faired and Dtilted a whole bunch of times, mixed in with other random moves. Like, should Dancing Blade be really stale, a lot? (As in, for that 10 move queue, should it be used more than those four times?)
Heh. I don't know too much about Marth yet, so if the DB depends on the character you're up against, I want to know just the general amount.

lol I've edited a ton. Welp. So a retreating pivot grab is pretty much single dashdance -> retreat -> pivot grab. Wow. I could've known that a lot earlier. T-T

 

[2nd2none]

So, I've seen Mr R do a really nifty combo: Aerial DB1 > Canceled Nair > Upsmash. Now, I'd like to implement into my own play but I haven't gotten it to work often. It's hard hitting with Aerial DB1 and sometimes, people just get out of the combo and hit me. How does it work? When does it work? How do I do it right? Also, does DB1 (aerial or not) combo into anything else?

Also, is it worth it to learn to platform cancel? I don't see its usefulness other than being flashy.

 

[Jackson]

I kinda feel that platform cancelling might be more trouble than it's worth, as I often just miss the timing and Dair.

 

[1PokeMastr]

That's because you don't practice

And the other guy isn't use DB1 -> Nair in the right conditions.

 

[2nd2none]

What are the right conditions?

 

[1PokeMastr]

I'm not exactly sure, since I'm not one who uses that very often, or at all.

But the general rule of thumb for something like that, is to use it when you know your opponent won't do anything from it.
Usually around higher damages/ low damages.

But mix it up between SH DB1 -> Nair/ Cross Up Uair/ Cross Up Air dodge to a landing grab, etc, all the works.

Like I said, I don't use this at all, I'm just relaying what Leon does to me.

 

[smashkng]

Jackson, you can plataform cancel with control stick down too. I plataform cancel by tilting tilting control stick down. That way you won't risk doing a Dair. A more forgiving method of plataform cancelling. Can be troubling at the beginning but with the help of practice it's far from impossible to become consistent at it.

 

[Jackson]

Jackson, you can plataform cancel with control stick down too. I plataform cancel by tilting tilting control stick down. That way you won't risk doing a Dair. A more forgiving method of plataform cancelling. Can be troubling at the beginning but with the help of practice it's far from impossible to become consistent at it.

Cool. So you just tilt down on analog stick and jump and you perform an aerial?

 

[1PokeMastr]

Don't even need to aerial

Let go of down when you pass through the platform

 

[Jackson]

Don't even need to aerial

Let go of down when you pass through the platform

Ok, thanks guys. I'll try that way out.

 

[2nd2none]

Cool. Thanks guys. Seems like the concensus is yes learn platform canceling.

 

[Jackson]

Ok, so I've kinda changed my Marth's playstyle from sorta campy to pretty aggro. I noticed in recent matches that some of my foes couldn't handle the pressure, so I'm staying aggro. It's fun to play as well. Anyway, I can usually improvise decently, but are there any certain combinations of moves that tend to combo together? I'm not talking true throw Comboes, just stuff like Fair to Dtilt.

 

[Jackson]

I realize this is a double post, but this thread is dead so I wanted to alert everybody. Any advice for the Meta Knight matchup? I might be going to a tourney soon and I'll inevitably be playing some. I currently feel like I'm more comfortable in the matchup with Snake, my secondary, but I want to be able to fight him with Marth as well.

 

[IamAxel]

I'm having trouble being too aggressive as Marth. Ill often get air dodged/sidestepped when I go for an attack. Is there any kind of mindset or thought process I can practice to avoid this aggression? (Id appreciate an answer that is not along the lines of "don't be aggressive". I know it sounds like it's a simple fix, but I just need something I can repeat in my mind or think back to, to limit my amazing ability to get read by my opponent.) Thank you

 

[Jackson]

I'm having trouble being too aggressive as Marth. Ill often get air dodged/sidestepped when I go for an attack. Is there any kind of mindset or thought process I can practice to avoid this aggression? (Id appreciate an answer that is not along the lines of "don't be aggressive". I know it sounds like it's a simple fix, but I just need something I can repeat in my mind or think back to, to limit my amazing ability to get read by my opponent.) Thank you

If your opponent is dodging a lot, try to work grabs into your game. You can get a lot of damage and potential follow ups.

 

[Shaya]

What exactly is getting air dodged/spot dodged?

slow fall aerials, fast fall aerials, rising aerials, dancing blade, etc etc, what?

For the most part, I can tell you that being successfully aggressive with Marth involves knowing how to hit people with fair in such a way that it's a frame trap either way. If they're in the air, then if you are trying to aim fair to hit on it's first frame out (frame 4) then they're directly above you and if they air dodge you should be able to swing again before they can hit you. If they're below you, aiming for the last hit of fair (frame 7) while retreating/falling is usually very very safe.

Start fast falling more, start buffering options more.

 

[Jackson]

What exactly is getting air dodged/spot dodged?

slow fall aerials, fast fall aerials, rising aerials, dancing blade, etc etc, what?

For the most part, I can tell you that being successfully aggressive with Marth involves knowing how to hit people with fair in such a way that it's a frame trap either way. If they're in the air, then if you are trying to aim fair to hit on it's first frame out (frame 4) then they're directly above you and if they air dodge you should be able to swing again before they can hit you. If they're below you, aiming for the last hit of fair (frame 7) while retreating/falling is usually very very safe.

Start fast falling more, start buffering options more.

Yay Shaya has returned

I've actually lost a lot of confidence in my Marth for some reason so I'm looking more into my old secondary, Snake. I play him rather decently, I guess.

 

[Zano]

I made shaya remember the marth boards exist, ur welcome

 

[Shaya]

I didn't ever leave, I just tend to not like being a broken record around these parts as I'm always saying the same thing

 

[roymustang1990-]

Can anyone tell me what the point of moonwalking for marth is besides the fact that it looks fancy? Oh,and how do you execute it? XD

 

[Shaya]

There's no moon walking for Marth in brawl

 

[Jackson]

There's no moon walking for Marth in brawl

Yeah, I thought that was a Melee tech.

 

[roymustang1990-]

I guess i failed to describe what I saw other marth mains do then. They did a turnaround motion multiples times while slowly oddly moving forward,it was really strange but fancy looking.I wished I could find a video of it to show you.oh well.

 

[Shaya]

Oh, you mean doop walking (sometimes called haze walking) I think.

Hold A + analogue forward and press c stick diagonally up backwards.

 

[Jackson]

Oh yeah, I think it's often called Pivot Walking. Looks pretty funny. Besides showing off with it, I don't think there's any actual purpose. I guess it'd be nice to know if you want to look flashier.

 

[Taytertot]

I'm having trouble being too aggressive as Marth. Ill often get air dodged/sidestepped when I go for an attack. Is there any kind of mindset or thought process I can practice to avoid this aggression? (Id appreciate an answer that is not along the lines of "don't be aggressive". I know it sounds like it's a simple fix, but I just need something I can repeat in my mind or think back to, to limit my amazing ability to get read by my opponent.) Thank you

As Shaya said it's difficult to know what advice to give without more details, but if they keep dodging then try to force them to dodge by getting them to think your going to attack and instead of actually attacking pause a moment and then hit them out of the dodge. An example would be that when you go for an attack that you use often in that situation think about whether or not they know that you use that attack. If you think they will know what youre going to do then fake as if your using that attack again and then go for a different attack/grab.

 

[Inle~Orichas]

IIRC Pivtot/Doop/Haze walking is as fast or is faster than marth's dash + you can do anything out of it.

 

[CURRY]

Soo is there a page or something? Of all the characters' ledge recovery tactics? (and the length of their ledge attack too?)

 

[1PokeMastr]

Pivot/ Haze/ Doop Walking is a few frames slower than Marth's dash.


And no, just go learn it in training mode.