Are overlooked (but unique) Nintendo characters really important?

[parrothead]

Machrider in brawl, nobody thinks he can make it but i do

Mach Rider is overlooked, but how is he going to fight without his motorbike? He would probably be the clone of Solid Snake. I heard you people said no vehicles allowed.

 

[FlipTroopa]

That's true, they were from the Eggerland series, but I didn't wanna get too hardcore on everyone now.

Much like game series' like Metal Gear, and Castlevania, Eggerland infact got it's start on the MSX console, the first console that HAL originally developed for.

Also, Pulseman is Game Freak property (yes, the Pokemon Company), but having not appeared on any Nintendo console, this unique character's chances of making it in are totally shot. I have great Sega Channel memories of that game.

In any case, Lolo and Lala will work similar to Ice Climbers. This might make Ice Climber's two character trait a little less unique, but I think they would be a nice contrast on the duo.

As obvious as it is that Lolo and Lala might pair, I've always been of the school of thought that, since they didn't in their games, they won't in Smash. Instead it goes all "Ice Climbers" on us in another way: switching costumes changes the names and the character you play as, but they are exactly identical otherwise.

 

[parrothead]

As obvious as it is that Lolo and Lala might pair, I've always been of the school of thought that, since they didn't in their games, they won't in Smash. Instead it goes all "Ice Climbers" on us in another way: switching costumes changes the names and the character you play as, but they are exactly identical otherwise.

In the Kirby anime, Lolo and Lala (known as Fololo and Falala) could fly almost forever. But in the Eggerland and Kirby series (known as Lololo and Lalala), they never did get to fly.

 

[FlipTroopa]

In the Kirby anime, Lolo and Lala (known as Fololo and Falala) could fly almost forever. But in the Eggerland and Kirby series (known as Lololo and Lalala), they never did get to fly.

...this has to do with my post how? XD

 

[parrothead]

...this has to do with my post how? XD

Ice Climbers can't fly, but Lolo & Lala probably can. That is probably the only difference between them.

 

[Kirby PopStar]

Some people have suspected that the Lolo and Lala from the Kirby series are different to the ones in the Eggerland / AOL (*shudder* okay, Adventures of Lolo) series. However, as they are seen in the Anime, they are very much a pair. To quote Kirby Kirby Kirby.com, "You can't have one without the other."

That being said, I wonder how they will "fly" in Super Smash Bros. Brawl.

 

[nomis]

Err, you can have both Little Mac styles, its as easy as a head swap. Like Pikachu's different hats.

Nice, I didn't even think of that.

Yes, Pikawil. I came here to show my submissions I made for JoshCube's SBO website. I also came to try and end those annoying submissions, like Master Chief, Petey Piranha, Banjo & Kazooie, Dry Bones, Rayman, and ExciteBiker.

I love you too.

I have done the honor and read through the rest of this thread and started to play Adventures of Lolo. That game is freaking frustrating the first time through.

Lolo and Lala would be very fitting in SSBB. Next to Stafy, I could very much see Lolo and Lala in SSBB.

But I would like to ask, how far should Nintendo go to adding an overlooked character? I would love to see some of the characters you've listed, but the others... I don't know. Would all of the characters listed be a reasonable addition? Is there more than just popularity and marketting in adding a character? Is satisfying a small fanbase worth all the trouble?

 

[parrothead]

Nice, I didn't even think of that.
I love you too.

I have done the honor and read through the rest of this thread and started to play Adventures of Lolo. That game is freaking frustrating the first time through.

Lolo and Lala would be very fitting in SSBB. Next to Stafy, I could very much see Lolo and Lala in SSBB.

But I would like to ask, how far should Nintendo go to adding an overlooked character? I would love to see some of the characters you've listed, but the others... I don't know. Would all of the characters listed be a reasonable addition? Is there more than just popularity and marketting in adding a character? Is satisfying a small fanbase worth all the trouble?

Not only satisfying a small fanbase, but also introducing newcomers to fill up the small fanbase. When I read a Nintendo Power issue telling about SSB64, I saw Ness on the list, and I was thinking, "So he came from that wierd game? Well, I'll have to try it out. ", then I seriously became interested in the MOTHER/EarthBound series. And when I checked out Nintendo.Co.Jp's websites, and when Nintendo showed trophies in SSBM (including the ones about Japanese characters and titles), I seriously became a large Nintendo fan.

I understand that most people want only interesting titles, but they should check out the most unique (but obscure) Nintendo titles, like the Legend of Stafy series, Tomato Adventure, and several others.

 

[#HBC | marshy]

Edit- Oops, wrong thread!

 

[FlipTroopa]

Lolo and Lala only flew in the anime; it's not really canon. They could work as a pair, and not saying they wouldn't, but since they were solo in their games (you swapped between which one you wanted to control in Lolo 3), I dunno; just seemed more right to me to let them play solo. Then again, Popo and Nana weren't exactly a pair in IC either... they were just P1 and P2...

And I never did say it yet, but thanks for your threads and charisma, parrothead. You're doing the Smash community a tremendous service

I myself was a big video game fan growing up, got big onto Sonic through elementary, and when N64 came out, I went back towards my younger years and became uber-Nintendo fanboyish. When SSB64 was released, I did a lot of retro-gaming, and when Melee was announced, I did a lot of retro-research. So now I figure I'm one of the more informed Nintendophiles out there, and I'd hope that a lot of people hit that same point, where they no longer think of Nintendo as only Zelda, Mario, Star Fox, and a few other major franchises, but a network of great games. You, parrothead, and helping that happen.

 

[Dastrn]

i'm going to guess that with the possible exception of little mac, we won't see a single character from your list make it into smash bros brawl. i'd be willing to put a sig/avatar bet on it with anyone who wants. winner gets to pic the loser's sig/avatar. PM me if you wanna bet!

 

[FlipTroopa]

I have been doing some serious thinking on the matter, and here's where I stand now:

Sakurai can go three different ways with the character roster.

He can give us these new 5, most of the Melee cast, and a few other characters that are incredibly "pop" suggestions who behave as basically clones (Waluigi, Bowser Jr., Oni-Link, Dark Samus, etc.). And those he adds that are not clones are STILL the ridiculously over-requested ideas that aren't that original: King K. Rool, Ridley, Blaziken, etc. The third party characters he chooses go completely against his statements, being the likes of somebody like Leon Kennedy, Cloud, Sora, or Klonoa.

Sakurai will offer a similar ratio of new characters to old, just like he did from 64 to Melee. We will see a few Melee characters missing, but in their place the new 5, as well a secret batch of other goodness. It's a mix: characters that are ridiculously (some would say overly) popular, and a few new ideas that most weren't expecting. The final roster would include the likes of Bowser Jr., Krystal, Diddy, and Ridley, but mixed with more "franchise" obscure characters like Little Mac, Balloon Fighter, Takamaru, and [insert generic FE character here]. The third party selections would be more "Nintendo," but still go a bit against what he originally had said. Likely candidates include Sonic amongst others.

In the final, and my favorite, option, Sakurai will select characters that are unique to finalize his roster. The game will come complete with a reduced roster from Melee, the 5 new fighters, and then some unlockables that capture a more rich history of Nintendo than the other two options. Old-but-goodies like Little Mac and Balloon Fighter appear alongside Japan-only characters like Barbara, Takamaru, and Stafy. Sakurai still includes the more unique popular suggestions, like Krystal, Diddy, and Isaac, but doesn't stray at all into "clone" or "just plain stupid" territory. The third party selections are more close to home, and are strictly characters that were, at one point, "Nintendo": Simon Belmont, Bomberman, Mega Man, Geno, and a few others.


Which option do you wish for Sakurai to choose? And yes, they're written with a bias

If you ask me, the final roster should have "X" amount characters, and I am 90% sure that will include Takamaru, Little Mac, Jill, Krystal, Diddy, Isaac, and King Dedede. But don't quote me on it; worship me I still brag that I was able to predict Marth, Mewtwo, and Falco's appearances in Melee, up to a year before it was released, and then follow that up with stating Wario, Meta Knight, Pit, and an armorless Samus were in SSB3 (even stating that armorless Samus wasn't a full character, and that Wario and Pit HAD to be starting fighters).

 

[Lord_Deathborne]

I noticed that Mach Rider is absent from this thread.

 

[parrothead]

I noticed that Mach Rider is absent from this thread.

I know Mach Rider is obscure, and I do enjoy him, but I'm afraid he wouldn't fit in SSBB, because he is a character that rides on a vehicle, and most people don't want vehicles. No offense. He could fight without his bike, but I'm afraid that he might be either a clone of Solid Snake or Captain Falcon, or probably a semi-clone of both.

 

[Lord_Deathborne]

I know Mach Rider is obscure, and I do enjoy him, but I'm afraid he wouldn't fit in SSBB, because he is a character that rides on a vehicle, and most people don't want vehicles. No offense. He could fight without his bike, but I'm afraid that he might be either a clone of Solid Snake or Captain Falcon, or probably a semi-clone of both.

If you can remember, C. Falcon an Fox were also characters that were confinfined to their vehicles before SSB64 (with exception to the SF Pilots in multiplayer mode in SF64, which wasn't much to talk about...).
Mach Rider can be developed from the ground up just as they were.
The same could be said of Balloon Fighter, who just floats around on balloons...

EDIT: n/m. I see you didn't suggest Balloon Fighter in the first place (why so many do, I can't understand...).
Alice from Balloon Kid would work...

 

[SR7884]

BOOOOOOO! Yellow card for putting down one of my favorite Earthbound characters ever. He doesn't use PSI. He's too badass for PSI. He'll Bottle Rocket your face off.

Also, you get a warning for assuming Dedede would be a clone. Have you played a Kirby game? He can fight way differently. He Floats for Crissake.

dotdotdot beat me to this but.....

I take you've never touched Earthbound have you? Jeff's abilities revolve around being the only character to fire bottle rockets. Also he can fix broken items and make them into deadly machines that only he can use such as the Hungry HP Sucker, the Counter-PSI Unit, and the Heavy Bazooka. Next time, know what you're talking about before you list it.

calm down, little babies....it's just a joke....

I've never played Earthbound and I've never owned a SNES....so I have no idea who Jeff is, he just looked amusing....

don't be so uptight, it's just a video game character.....

I'm sure a bunch of pixels could blast my face off.....

 

[parrothead]

If you can remember, C. Falcon an Fox were also characters that were confinfined to their vehicles before SSB64 (with exception to the SF Pilots in multiplayer mode in SF64, which wasn't much to talk about...).
Mach Rider can be developed from the ground up just as they were.
The same could be said of Balloon Fighter, who just floats around on balloons...

EDIT: n/m. I see you didn't suggest Balloon Fighter in the first place (why so many do, I can't understand...).
Alice from Balloon Kid would work...

If Sakurai gives Mach Rider some unrealistic fire arms, then he might work, but he'll probably turn out like Solid Snake. I added him to the list.

And the reason why I didn't add Balloon Fighter, is because there is more than one Balloon Fighter in Balloon Fight (one blue, one red, and several bird-like Balloon Fighters). And why did I add Alice (Balloon Kid and Balloon Fight GB)? Because she has a personality, while a Balloon Fighter doesn't, and according to the Balloon Fighter trophy, "The Balloon Fighter's name is unknown". I know he is more well known than Alice, but Alice is a better choice. If a Balloon Fighter was talking to someone, it would be like this:

Person: What is your name?
Balloon Fighter: I don't have a name.
Person: What is your occupation?
Balloon Fighter: I'm a Balloon Fighter.

Now do any of you understand this?

 

[Snowman3karrotz]

Hey, How the hell do you do links "bomb rain" is it on specific games only or can I do it on any game???
Ive did it a couple of times on my friends system but I cant seem to pull it off once at my house...
any one got any tips on how to do it???

 

[parrothead]

Hey, How the hell do you do links "bomb rain" is it on specific games only or can I do it on any game???
Ive did it a couple of times on my friends system but I cant seem to pull it off once at my house...
any one got any tips on how to do it???

It is difficult for me to understand what you are trying to say.

 

[nomis]

Not only satisfying a small fanbase, but also introducing newcomers to fill up the small fanbase. When I read a Nintendo Power issue telling about SSB64, I saw Ness on the list, and I was thinking, "So he came from that wierd game? Well, I'll have to try it out. ", then I seriously became interested in the MOTHER/EarthBound series. And when I checked out Nintendo.Co.Jp's websites, and when Nintendo showed trophies in SSBM (including the ones about Japanese characters and titles), I seriously became a large Nintendo fan.

I understand that most people want only interesting titles, but they should check out the most unique (but obscure) Nintendo titles, like the Legend of Stafy series, Tomato Adventure, and several others.

The thing is that Ness is freaking popular in Japan, so it was a good choice to just throw him in.

But satisfying a small fanbase wouldn't do much for Nintendo. Sure, I looked through all the trophies in SSBM, but all I got out of it were the words, "Nifty" , "Cool" , and "Wow." Not many people want to spend their time playing semi-good/interesting games, let alone buy them (which is what Nintendo is probably ultimately aiming for).

So why should Nintendo satisfy a small fanbase for only a MINIMAL gain? Not many people see the big picture: that by adding obscure characters Nintendo shows that they appreciate the fan's standpoint. The best thing to do is to promote obscure characters that have been in GOOD games, so they can promote their game and hopefully sell more units.

I'm not saying that all their games suck, it's just that a character has to be backed by good memories from their good games, not decent memories with decent games. Those decent memories just fade away, just like the character.

That's why I'm all for Stafy; he deserves the spot before many other Nintendo characters. Kudos to Tose for making such a good game. The only problem is that his personality (to me, at least) is very similar to Kirby.

 

[Kirby PopStar]

i'm going to guess that with the possible exception of little mac, we won't see a single character from your list make it into smash bros brawl. i'd be willing to put a sig/avatar bet on it with anyone who wants. winner gets to pic the loser's sig/avatar. PM me if you wanna bet!

Not so. I'm telling you, and I'm telling everyone right now for a fact that Lolo & Lala WILL be in the game. As far as the other characters are concerned, I cannot say. (But, I am hopeful!) I'm not forcing anyone to believe me as I know you have no reason to, but I'm just doing a favor by giving the heads up on this.

There is also something I'd like to point everyone to;
Nintendo.com News: Super Smash Bros. Brawl Developer Interview

This article has changed since it was originally posted. In specific, this particular portion.
[At this point, the audience began to shout out characters, including: Sonic, Ridley, Captain Olimar, Waluigi, "Anyone from Pro Wrestling," Fawful, Mega Man, Lolo, Reggie, and Mr. Miyamoto]
Lolo was added, where it originally was not on that list of characters that were supposedly shouted out. Even the E3 board post was edited without a time stamp. I don't think anyone shouted it at the showing either.

Overlooked Nintendo characters are very important. Super Smash Bros. is, in my eyes, sort of a homage to all of Nintendo. But, we can't iust focus on the popular intellectual properties of Nintendo. There's so much more!

 

[Lord_Deathborne]

If Sakurai gives Mach Rider some unrealistic fire arms, then he might work, but he'll probably turn out like Solid Snake. I added him to the list.

And the reason why I didn't add Balloon Fighter, is because there is more than one Balloon Fighter in Balloon Fight (one blue, one red, and several bird-like Balloon Fighters). And why did I add Alice (Balloon Kid and Balloon Fighte GB)? Because she has a personality, while a Balloon Fighter doesn't, and according to the Balloon Fighter trophy, "The Balloon Fighter's name is unknown". I know he is more well known than Alice, but Alice is a better choice. If a Balloon Fighter was talking to someone, it would be like this:

Person: What is your name?
Balloon Fighter: I don't have a name.
Person: What is your occupation?
Balloon Fighter: I'm a Balloon Fighter.

Now do any of you understand this?

I actually picture M. Rider as more of a C. Falcon-type brawler. And I already acknowledged that Alice (I said she would work, not wouldn't) was a better choice than the generic Balloon Fighter. The end of my message was simply correcting myself, as I accidently made the notion that Balloon Fighter was on your list - I simply confused it with another. Pretty much all of your suggestions are good ones, I hope I didn't come off as unnecessarily judgemental.

 

[GenG]

Well, about the new roster, I think Brawl have to be "definitive" in terms of franchises participation. If there is a major character left, then I could say that the game is incomplete.
Do you think that giving up franchises like Golden Sun or Custom Robo to please Mario fans with crappy characters like Bowsy or Waluigi is right? I don't think so. Sakurai must to take consideration of this "franchises balance".

 

[Lord_Deathborne]

By Bowsy, do you mean Bowser Jr.?
And I completely agree, let's go easy with the Mario characters already...

 

[FlipTroopa]

Not so. I'm telling you, and I'm telling everyone right now for a fact that Lolo & Lala WILL be in the game. As far as the other characters are concerned, I cannot say. (But, I am hopeful!) I'm not forcing anyone to believe me as I know you have no reason to, but I'm just doing a favor by giving the heads up on this.

There is also something I'd like to point everyone to;
Nintendo.com News: Super Smash Bros. Brawl Developer Interview

This article has changed since it was originally posted. In specific, this particular portion.
[At this point, the audience began to shout out characters, including: Sonic, Ridley, Captain Olimar, Waluigi, "Anyone from Pro Wrestling," Fawful, Mega Man, Lolo, Reggie, and Mr. Miyamoto]
Lolo was added, where it originally was not on that list of characters that were supposedly shouted out. Even the E3 board post was edited without a time stamp. I don't think anyone shouted it at the showing either.

Overlooked Nintendo characters are very important. Super Smash Bros. is, in my eyes, sort of a homage to all of Nintendo. But, we can't iust focus on the popular intellectual properties of Nintendo. There's so much more!

You know, the audio I heard, tacked onto the trailer, didn't have that awesome interview to go with it :/ I don't recall Lolo in any of the immediate articles I read afterwars, though, either. Hmm. And I remember reading that the crowd cracked up when someone said "REGGIE!" and then added "no, MIYAMOTO!"

Here's some food for thought, btw: When that guy yelled Fawful, Sakurai made a "wtf" face. A translator shot over and goes "It's [insert japanese name] from Mario and Luigi, sir," and Sakurai kinda went "ohh," nodded, and kept listening in to suggestions.

 

[parrothead]

You know, the audio I heard, tacked onto the trailer, didn't have that awesome interview to go with it :/ I don't recall Lolo in any of the immediate articles I read afterwars, though, either. Hmm. And I remember reading that the crowd cracked up when someone said "REGGIE!" and then added "no, MIYAMOTO!"

Here's some food for thought, btw: When that guy yelled Fawful, Sakurai made a "wtf" face. A translator shot over and goes "It's [insert japanese name] from Mario and Luigi, sir," and Sakurai kinda went "ohh," nodded, and kept listening in to suggestions.

XD, that's a good one, FlipTroopa.

If many of the obscure Nintendo characters appear in SSBB either as a trophy and/or playable character, then I would be as happy as these people. Sorry, the higher quality version of that video is extremely rare.

 

[xianfeng]

I know an overlooked nintendo character I wanna see, the girl froz Zelda BS, you could choose male or female the male being link and there was a female she would be awsome she should make a comeback in a future zelda game or in Brawl she could be a clone of Link or original it would be cool.

 

[Pika420]

I know that the topic of Little Mac has been beat to death, but I just wanna throw out there that the ONLY reason I bought Fight Night Round 2 for my GC was because of Super Punch-Out and the ability to play as Little Mac. So there.

 

[Deleted member]

Hell yes they are.

Nintendo has pretty much realised that SSB can be used as a springboard to launch new titles and franchises (e.g. adding Isaac/Felix/Alex from Golden Sun would cause huge hype for Golden Sun 3, which has been asked for four years already).

 

[parrothead]

I know that the topic of Little Mac has been beat to death, but I just wanna throw out there that the ONLY reason I bought Fight Night Round 2 for my GC was because of Super Punch-Out and the ability to play as Little Mac. So there.

According to the SNES Super Punch-Out!! Wikipedia article, the blonde-haired boxer is nameless and is (incorrectly) billed as Little Mac in the GCN version of Fight Night Round 2. They also added an external link to a negative review that contains profanity and shows the SNES Super Punch-Out!!'s weakness.

Sounds like the people who edited the article don't want to know the blonde-haired boxer is truly Little Mac, because the name of the blonde-haired boxer = any name you type in, the article-editors are too fond to the NES Punch-Out!! titles, and the blonde-haired boxer is not little, but he is "Mac".

Everytime I hear about Punch-Out!!, I hear about the NES versions, but not much of the arcade versions (which started it all) nor the SNES Super Punch-Out!!

The reason why I am calling it "SNES Super Punch-Out!!" is because there is also the arcade Super Punch-Out!!, so I won't cause confusion to occur.

If the blonde-haired boxer appears in Super Smash Bros. Brawl as Little Mac, it would teach those diehard Punch-Out!!/Nintendo fans who he really is. But poor green-haired boxer, he doesn't have an official name.

 

[Deleted member]

Maybe its because I visit a certain website way too much, but everytime I think about Punch Out! I think of evil bike thieves...

But Little Mac (whatever his hair colour) has been suggested for years, and I'd be reasonably happy with him if he was included.

 

[icymatt]

But poor green-haired boxer, he doesn't have an official name.

He looks like Principal Skinner, so let's call him 'Spanky'.

And even though I'm a big fan of Super Punch-Out!!, I still refuse to refer to him as Little Mac, because he's not. He's YOU!

 

[parrothead]

He looks like Principal Skinner, so let's call him 'Spanky'.

And even though I'm a big fan of Super Punch-Out!!, I still refuse to refer to him as Little Mac, because he's not. He's YOU!

He also looks similar to Will Ferrell.

In some other video games, you name the protagonist (and sometimes other characters). Some already have official names (like Link, Ness, Ninten, Red (Pokemon) Michael Jones (StarTropics, not rapper), etc.)

Mr. Game & Watch never had a name until Nintendo official gave him one for SSBM and G&W Gallery 4.

 

[bbb]

I don't see what's wrong with the generic Balloon Fighter. On the menu screen they refer to Popo & Nana as Ice Climbers, and they could just stick a name on 'im like, Steve...

 

[#HBC | marshy]

The generic Balloon Fighter is great. Overlooked Nintendo characters can be important, but not all of them. Characters like Uniracers, Hakkun, Cupid, Nester, Todd, Ninten, and Tin Star are overlooked for a good reason. Hmmm....those sound familiar.

 

[Chaos_Dude]

Well, about the new roster, I think Brawl have to be "definitive" in terms of franchises participation. If there is a major character left, then I could say that the game is incomplete.
Do you think that giving up franchises like Golden Sun or Custom Robo to please Mario fans with crappy characters like Bowsy or Waluigi is right? I don't think so. Sakurai must to take consideration of this "franchises balance".

Definitely. The one that gets me the most is the plethora of Link ideas such as cel-shaded Link and Zora Link and all the other Links who, if included in the series, would take up valuable spaces for better characters. No, I don't want to play as random Zora NPC#7. I wanna play as someone from another series that I've waited two games to see and have been denied. Let's put some actual characters into the third, not rehashes.

 

[Chickenboy666]

I only have 5 words:
Demille must be in Brawl

 

[Thrillhouse-vh.]

Shame on you parrothead, you claim to be for the oscure Nitendo characters, but Kensuke Kimachi and Ryota Hayami are nowhere on your lists!

Chack them out from my sig, and see how well they can fight!

BTW Uniracer FTW!

 

[Falco-Z]

They are important, for two reasons:
As already said, Smash Bros is a great advertisement for other series'.
Also, by being less well known, they have more potential to be alterted by Sakurai and staff into very original characters.

However, as said at the top of this page, they should not be the reason that popular characters are excluded from Brawl.

 

[Lord_Deathborne]

I think it ultimately comes down to merit and potential.