Are Cult Classics Dead?

[finalark]

In theory, cult classics are games (well, technically also books, shows, movies, ect. but this thread is specially discussing the video games aspect) that are not very well known but have a very small but enthusiastic fan base. These days it's evolved to mean "anything with an extremely dedicated following." You know that a phrase has lost its meaning when you hear people referring to One Piece as a cult classic.

So what is a cult classic? Taking a look at a lot of games that people consider cult classic it's hard to really define them as such any more. For example, Earthbound is considered a cult classic. And yet it's actually surprisingly well known especially with Nintendo including Ness in every single Smash Brothers game. Or how about NiGHTS Into Dreams? Chances are, if you know only of the SEGA Saturn in passing this is the Saturn game that you know. However, it's actually a surprisingly well known game. Especially with SEGA releasing it on pretty much every platform known to man.

So that raises the question, in this digital age of communication are cult classics even popular anymore? It's so easy for word on strange, quirky unique games to spread and thanks to the magic of digital distribution its easier than ever for companies to get their games out to a wider audience. Food for thought.

Or maybe I'm just being myopic. While games like Earthbound and Nights are well known among gaming fans most people who don't care for the hobby probably have never heard of them. Likewise to One Piece which, while very well known among anime and manga fans, never made the same mainstream splash in the US like Naruto or Death Note did.

 

[Minato]

I feel that cult classics can definitely still exist. Information is definitely spread easily compared to before, but I don't think it's enough to stop certain games reaching that status. They're underrated games that are well loved by its community. I don't think cult classics refer just to games that the majority have never heard but, but instead, games that people have never played.

To clarify even more, I think that cult classics are games that are missed out on by a person that loves the genre. A game like Persona is super popular with people that love JRPGs, which is why I won't consider it to have that status. While there are action fans that missed out on Bayonetta, which is closer to a cult classic.

Bringing up Earthbound, to me I find that it's possible for games to exit into mainstream (I don't think Earthbound has) similar to bands.

 

[finalark]

I don't think cult classics refer just to games that the majority have never heard but, but instead, games that people have never played

I have to agree with this. Going back to Earthbound, it might be decently well known but the amount of people who know about it compared to the amount of people who have actually played it is much smaller.

 

[Twewy]

God Hand is a great example of a cult-classic, considering the game sold terribly and was pretty much the death of Clover.

And what a classic it is.

 

[RespawningJesus]

God Hand is a great example of a cult-classic, considering the game sold terribly and was pretty much the death of Clover.

And what a classic it is.

Argh, you beat me to it.

 

[Nino Rybicki]

Sometimes, I feel like Fire Emblem is one, at least outside Japan. Compare how many people know Marth from SSB to how many have actually played his game. Probably even more so for Ike and Roy. Most people I know don't even realize that Marth, Roy, and Ike are from separate universes.

A lot of companies that rarely release stuff outside of Japan have cult followings. I'd say Namco does for its more obscure titles.

 

[finalark]

Sometimes, I feel like Fire Emblem is one, at least outside Japan. Compare how many people know Marth from SSB to how many have actually played his game. Probably even more so for Ike and Roy. Most people I know don't even realize that Marth, Roy, and Ike are from separate universes.

I kind of feel like FE has been in and out of the cult classic pool for a while. When Blazing Sword first came out in the west it was a pretty big deal. So was Sacred Stones, but then after that hype for the series really died down.

Then Awakening comes out and outsells every other internationally released game, bringing in a whole new generation of Fire Emblem fans. We'll just have to wait and see if hype dies down again or if it carries into future installments.

 

[Drakester234]

I think Catherine is kind of a cult classic. It has to garner a very specific audience, and I think Catherine succeeds in doing that. Other than that, I don't think they will be as apparent with review sites everywhere saying something is either an amazing masterpiece or a piece of trash.

 

[TimeSmash]

The 999 series is cult classic material, especially with the advent that the series may never be finished. Both games in the series were incredibly wrought with superb storytelling and hugely intricate. However neither of them sold that well, but received amazing reviews

 

[lordvaati]

I'm just wondering what kind of psycho thought One Piece is a cult classic.

I mean its debut in America was kind of a botch, but it's been on a rise especially after Funimation took over.

Calling OP a cult classic is like calling Soccer an underrated sport.

 

[finalark]

I'm just wondering what kind of psycho thought One Piece is a cult classic.

I mean its debut in America was kind of a botch, but it's been on a rise especially after Funimation took over.

Calling OP a cult classic is like calling Soccer an underrated sport.

I'd argue that One Piece was a cult classic in the states when it first launched since the only people who were hardcore enough to watch subbed anime/read manga back in 2004 really knew about what the original Japanese version was like. Hell, I remember for a while One Piece was known as "That pirate show that has a rap song at the beginning." Doesn't help that OP never made a major mainstream impact in the west the way that something like Fullmetal Alchemist or Bleach, two other anime series that came out around the same time, did.

But yeah, that was back in 2004. These days you'd have to be insane to call One Piece a cult classic.

 

[ZephyrZ]

Well, does it matter if cult classics are all that well known?

What if a game is extremely well known, but only played by a handful of people? Sure, we have Ness in Smash Bros, but how many westerners actually played Earthbound? Just hardcore Nintendo fans who are either a) part of the cult, or b) want to educate themselves in everything Nintendo.

I'll bet only a small handful of people in my hometown know what Earthbound is outside of Smash, and only an even smaller amount have actually played it.

 

[Twewy]

I'm just wondering what kind of psycho thought One Piece is a cult classic.

I mean its debut in America was kind of a botch, but it's been on a rise especially after Funimation took over.

Calling OP a cult classic is like calling Soccer an underrated sport.

A cult classic is usually defined as something loved by a following. Using this logic, things like One Piece, Homestuck, Doctor Who, and Pokemon can even be considered cult classics due to a large loyal following. Things that can be considered cult classics can also turn into huge franchises such as, once again, Doctor Who and Call of Duty, or become popular through their cult status like The Rocky Horror Picture Show.

Though if we consider cult classic by its more standard and used term, then yes, cult classics are still being made or being reintroduced to a bigger audience by expanding the audience through ports and remakes, like Deadly Premonition, Valkyria Chronicles, or Fahreinheit. You cannot kill the concept of a cult classic as there will always be someone who will like a product, no matter how obscure it is or how bad it is considered by others people.

 

[Heroine of Winds]

God Hand is a great example of a cult-classic, considering the game sold terribly and was pretty much the death of Clover.

And what a classic it is.

There's also Okami (which is also made by Clover before it shut down). Despite good reviews, the game sold pretty poorly back when it came out for the PS2.

 

[Twewy]

There's also Okami (which is also made by Clover before it shut down). Despite good reviews, the game sold pretty poorly back when it came out for the PS2.

Clover's actually known for making nothing but cult classics. Even the biggest game they've worked on, Resident Evil 4, can be considered one.

 

[finalark]

Even the biggest game they've worked on, Resident Evil 4, can be considered one.

Wait, what?

RE4 was a HUGE game back in 2005. It was all over the place back int he day. There's a reason why so many horror games that came after it rip it off.

Hell, I'd argue that RE4 is the FFVII or OOT of the RE series. If you've only played one RE game, it's probably RE4.

 

[mimgrim]

The 999 series is cult classic material, especially with the advent that the series may never be finished. Both games in the series were incredibly wrought with superb storytelling and hugely intricate. However neither of them sold that well, but received amazing reviews

The feels man the feels (even playing through the game a second time I still got choked up during that scene).

ZE3 when.

But year the Zero's Escape series is definitely a cult classic.

 

[Twewy]

Wait, what?

RE4 was a HUGE game back in 2005. It was all over the place back int he day. There's a reason why so many horror games that came after it rip it off.

Hell, I'd argue that RE4 is the FFVII or OOT of the RE series. If you've only played one RE game, it's probably RE4.

You have to remember that a cult classic is a well-loved and remembered film/book/game/whatever, and the most common use is for films/books/games/whatever that did not perform well and gathered an audience over time. Something's popularity can be expand by further exposure to the product. RE4's popularity shot up due to the numerous ports and exposure to other audiences. Resident Evil 4 is well-loved and very well remembered, but if we're going to go by the first Gamecube release (no ports, etc), RE4 is one of the lowest selling main RE titles.

The highest selling non-port Resident Evil is 5 at 8.22 million with PS3+360 combined. Resident Evil 6 is close behind, at 5.2 million with PS3+360 combined. Resident Evil 4's original release on the Gamecube gathered 1.7 million, only beating out Code: Veronica and Zero's initial sales on 1.14 and 1.29 million, respectively. You can better assume that if someone's only played one RE, it's 5 or maybe even 6.

It is true RE4 rose in popularity, but take note many forms of media end up doing the same over time. Scott Pilgrim Vs. The World and Rocky Horror Picture Show both failed in the box office, and made most of their profit from home release sales, like how many of RE4's overall sales have come from ports and re-releases. The PS2 and Wii releases each out-sold the Gamecube version, helping raise it's popularity. By 2012, RE4 overall sold 5.9 million units.

Just because something is/isn't popular doesn't mean it can't serve as a source of inspiration. Games like Maniac Mansion, The Secret of Monkey Island, Earthbound and Planescape: Torment can do poorly yet serve as inspiration for other titles and still be considered a cult classic.

 

[finalark]

You have to remember that a cult classic is a well-loved and remembered film/book/game/whatever, and the most common use is for films/books/games/whatever that did not perform well and gathered an audience over time. Something's popularity can be expand by further exposure to the product. RE4's popularity shot up due to the numerous ports and exposure to other audiences. Resident Evil 4 is well-loved and very well remembered, but if we're going to go by the first Gamecube release (no ports, etc), RE4 is one of the lowest selling main RE titles.

That's true, but you're forgetting that the game was ported to the PS2 in the same year that it was released on GCN. While the game did portly on GCN (big surprise) it sold very well on PS2. Combined with GCN sales, Resi4 sold 5.31 million copies in its first year. Compare this to RE1 (5.05 million in '96 on PS1), RE2 (5.82 million in '98 on PS1) RE3 (3.72 million in '99 on PS1) and RE6 (4.98 million in 2012 with combined sales on PS3 and Xbox 360) and you have a game that actually has numbers comparable to most games in the series.

RE4 didn't build up an audience over time, it was popular from the word go.

The highest selling non-port Resident Evil is 5 at 8.22 million with PS3+360 combined. Resident Evil 6 is close behind, at 5.2 million with PS3+360 combined. Resident Evil 4's original release on the Gamecube gathered 1.7 million, only beating out Code: Veronica and Zero's initial sales on 1.14 and 1.29 million, respectively. You can better assume that if someone's only played one RE, it's 5 or maybe even 6.

Again, you're forgetting that RE4 had a PS2 release in the same year, where it performed very well. I'd hardly call nine months "over time."

Also, I noticed that we got different numbers for our RE6 sales. Just for the sake of comparing notes, where did you get your numbers from? Because this is where I got mine: http://www.vgchartz.com/

 

[Minato]

I wouldn't say RE4 is a cult classic. It's the game that ended up reviving the series by mixing up the formula.

GC sales were definitely limited by the amount of GC owners as opposed to PS2, for sure.

Edit: I wouldn't use VGchartz. Has a lot of history with false/inaccurate info that people don't take it seriously now.

 

[finalark]

Edit: I wouldn't use VGchartz. Has a lot of history with false/inaccurate info that people don't take it seriously now.

I thought some of those numbers looked a little weird. Thanks for the heads up.

 

[Twewy]

That's true, but you're forgetting that the game was ported to the PS2 in the same year that it was released on GCN. While the game did portly on GCN (big surprise) it sold very well on PS2. Combined with GCN sales, Resi4 sold 5.31 million copies in its first year. Compare this to RE1 (5.05 million in '96 on PS1), RE2 (5.82 million in '98 on PS1) RE3 (3.72 million in '99 on PS1) and RE6 (4.98 million in 2012 with combined sales on PS3 and Xbox 360) and you have a game that actually has numbers comparable to most games in the series.

RE4 didn't build up an audience over time, it was popular from the word go.



Again, you're forgetting that RE4 had a PS2 release in the same year, where it performed very well. I'd hardly call nine months "over time."

Also, I noticed that we got different numbers for our RE6 sales. Just for the sake of comparing notes, where did you get your numbers from? Because this is where I got mine: http://www.vgchartz.com/

Thank you for pointing out the PS2 port was 2005. I actually did not know about it, first heard of it in 2006. VGChartz gets info wrong, most of my information was from Capcom's site itself, with Wikipedia articles being checked just in case. Looking back at it, I got RE5's sales figures wrong as well. 8.22 million is a little too much than the 6.7 million I recently saw.

Personally, I still consider RE4 a cult classic, as it's well-loved and remembered by a fanbase. Though, if we're going to use the well-known definition of the term, the Outbreak games and Dead Aim weren't too bad, and I know there's a lot of fan efforts to get custom Outbreak servers up and going.

 

[finalark]

Personally, I still consider RE4 a cult classic, as it's well-loved and remembered by a fanbase.

I'm not a big fan of that definition mostly because you could consider games like Final Fantasy VII and Ocarina of Time cult classics. Although this is really just a difference of opinion at this point.

Though, if we're going to use the well-known definition of the term, the Outbreak games and Dead Aim weren't too bad, and I know there's a lot of fan efforts to get custom Outbreak servers up and going.

Oh man, I remember Outbreak. When I was a kid there was a Blockbuster within walking distance from the apartment I lived in at the time that always had that game. I never got the chance to play it, but I remember the cover being really intimidating. Especially since my previous experience with the series was a joint of courage with one my friends where we tried to get as far as we could in Resident Evil 3. The RE games stopped scaring me around the time I started high school but in my younger years those games genuinely frightened. Doesn't help that almost anything udead (primarily zombies and skeletons, ghosts not so much) really, really terrified me as a kid.

IMO the most cult-classicy of the RE games is probably Code Veronica. Didn't sell all that well? Check. Extremely dedicated and vocal fan base? Check. More people have heard about it than have actually played it, myself included? Check.

 

[Twewy]

IMO the most cult-classicy of the RE games is probably Code Veronica. Didn't sell all that well? Check. Extremely dedicated and vocal fan base? Check. More people have heard about it than have actually played it, myself included? Check.

It outsold both Outbreaks combined, I think. To be honest Resident Evil is a big series, so it can be hard to identify a game in it as a cult classic. Really the only games you couldn't at least consider one is Gaiden or Operation Raccoon City, maybe the first two Survivor games.

 

[finalark]

It outsold both Outbreaks combined, I think. To be honest Resident Evil is a big series, so it can be hard to identify a game in it as a cult classic. Really the only games you couldn't at least consider one is Gaiden or Operation Raccoon City, maybe the first two Survivor games.

According to this article (granted, the article is two years old at this point) the only way Code Veronica outsold Outbreak was by combining the sales of the DC and PS2 versions of the game: http://www.dualshockers.com/2013/10...dent-evil-series-with-resident-evil-5-on-top/

Outbreak is certainly less known. But Code Veronica is one of those games that saw multiple re-releases and got its fanbase over the course of several years while Outbreak was less fortunate. Basically, Outbreak outsold the initial DC release of Code Veronica but not the combined sales of all versions of CV.

 

[ZomBiehn]

Gex needs a return! Gex 64 3D!!!!!.........no?

 

[Twewy]

Gex needs a return! Gex 64 3D!!!!!.........no?

If Gex got a new game I really wouldn't want it to be a remake/port of the 3rd game. Maybe a reboot or a remake of the very first one, yeah.

Outbreak is certainly less known. But Code Veronica is one of those games that saw multiple re-releases and got its fanbase over the course of several years while Outbreak was less fortunate. Basically, Outbreak outsold the initial DC release of Code Veronica but not the combined sales of all versions of CV.

I'd still consider it a cult classic, to be honest. I mean, the game's pretty fondly remembered, and you'd have to have a pretty loyal fanbase to have fan-made private servers released for a decade old game.

 

[Dexmaster]

I'm not sure I agree with your description of a cult classic. The way I see it, it's a game that isn't too well known or popular, with a small, however very passionate, fanbase. Look at the Earthbound series. Not a lot of us knew about it before Smash bros, and many still don't, but there are still people who want Lucas as DLC (bless those poor souls) and people willing to make a fan sequel and a spiritual successor (Citizens of Earth looks awesome). Pokemon wouldn't really work, because a good portion of the fanbase don't really follow it passionately.

 

[finalark]

Pokemon wouldn't really work, because a good portion of the fanbase don't really follow it passionately.

Not to mention that it's one of the Nintendo's best selling franchises that made a huge cultural impact in all three major regions (NA, EU and Asia).

I'm not sure I agree with your description of a cult classic. The way I see it, it's a game that isn't too well known or popular, with a small, however very passionate, fanbase.

In theory, cult classics are games that are not very well known but have a very small but enthusiastic fan base.

I think we're actually on the same page.

 

[TimeSmash]

@ Twewy how dare you not mention the game eponymous to you

 

[mimgrim]

@ Twewy how dare you not mention the game eponymous to you

I dunno. The World Ends With You is a pretty popular and rather well known game as far as I know.

 

[finalark]

I'm not really sure if The World Ends With You is one of those games that is actually popular and well known or if it's one of those cases where everybody knows about it, plenty of people talk about it, but you'll be damned to find a single person who has actually played it.

In my experience, it's the latter. Although it might just be the area I live in. On that note, I poked around on the internet a bit to see how well it sold.

Under a million copies in the US. Ouch. Yeah, it's definitely the latter.

 

[Raider 88]

I feel like Xenoblade Chronicles could be considered a cult classic in the US. I've still yet to meet someone who has actually played the game,even though it has excellent reviews. I mean, it was barely released in the US. More are aware of it now though, because of smash and the 3ds remake coming out

 

[finalark]

I feel like Xenoblade Chronicles could be considered a cult classic in the US. I've still yet to meet someone who has actually played the game,even though it has excellent reviews. I mean, it was barely released in the US. More are aware of it now though, because of smash and the 3ds remake coming out

As somebody who has actually played the game (entirely because one of my friends had the foresight to pick it up when it first launched) I can say that I'm really glad it's getting a rerelease. It's a great game and more people should play it. I just wish Nintendo didn't limit the game's audience (again) by making it exclusive to the New 3DS.

 

[Twewy]

I dunno. The World Ends With You is a pretty popular and rather well known game as far as I know.

Personification of the game here, just saying that you're wrong. Sorry bud, I'm upset about it too. TWEWY was a great game and used every feature of the DS in some form, it's a shame it didn't become a best-seller.

 

[Dexmaster]

I think we're actually on the same page.

Well aren't I good at reading