Approaches with Fox?

[Shin Kaizoku]

I feel like my approaches with Fox have gotten pretty stale. I usually try coming in with drill, dash attack, or dash grab, but obviously the latter two are much less safe. I'm not sure how good his pivots are either, but I dunno if I would know what a good time to execute them would be anyway. Anyone have some new approaches I should start using?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Just try to mix up as many different options as possible, including baits such as empty hops. Ftilt, walk away utilt, cross ups etc. There's no right or wrong way to approach ... just use whatever gets you an opening.

 

[Flynch]

You can short hop > air dodge through someone (or their attack) and follow with utilt. I learned that while playing during brawl, it doesn't seem as useful in ssb4 but I still like it. Utilt on a character like bowser can really get some damage in.

A short hop or fastfall nair can be used as It's either lagless or pretty much lagless. So you can spot dodge/roll right afterwards.

Approaching with with a dash fair is really viably if the enemy is off the ground.

The drill, dash attack, and dash grab you mentioned will stop feeling stale as you throw more into the mix.

Early on a dash upsmash can net decent damage and you can unstale it by the time you need it for a kill. At lower percents you can sometimes follow with an uair or fair depending on how the opponent moves out of it.

Dash reverse bair is one of my favorites, but that's more of a kill move than an approach.

Honestly anything that can't be easily punished is a good approach. I think one of the best parts of fox is his variety of useful moves, just play around and try using every single move as an approach in training mode. Who knows what will work out

 

[Virgman]

Honestly anything that can't be easily punished is a good approach. I think one of the best parts of fox is his variety of useful moves, just play around and try using every single move as an approach in training mode. Who knows what will work out

This last paragraph hit the nail on the head. Just use moves that are safe on shield. And use Fox's speed, one of the most valuable assets of his metagame. With him being so fast, it's easier to apply mixups into your playstyle.

 

[Neverbound]

Short hop nair, run through their shield and short hop nair fast fall into uptilt

 

[Gunslinger]

Nair, RAR Bair, fox-trot jab, and pivot f-tilts have all worked really well for me along with what you've got down. Nair is generally my preferred approach, probably due to excessive Melee play I've gotten really good at spacing them.

 

[Shin Kaizoku]

Thanks a lot for your input guys. Question though: a lot of the time when I shorthop fastfall nair, I get grabbed OoS. Would spacing better fix this issue, or do I have time to spotdodge or something?

 

[Gunslinger]

Thanks a lot for your input guys. Question though: a lot of the time when I shorthop fastfall nair, I get grabbed OoS. Would spacing better fix this issue, or do I have time to spotdodge or something?

Better spacing. If you're in front of their shield you have to hit with the tip or you'll get punished like that (this is why I think retreating nairs are essential to Fox, since he can't safely nair without his shine). Spacing behind their shield is much safer and easier to perform (can also lead to up-tilt pressure). Another option for countering shields is to empty hop, they shield expecting an aerial, then you get a free grab. If you notice they shield camp whenever you approach them, running past their shield and doing a pivot f-tilt or grab are also effective cross-ups.

 

[Probalo]

I've been using a similar approach to yours. Short hop, dair leading to dash attack and fair. @ Flynch gave some great advice.

 

[Shin Kaizoku]

Better spacing. If you're in front of their shield you have to hit with the tip or you'll get punished like that (this is why I think retreating nairs are essential to Fox, since he can't safely nair without his shine). Spacing behind their shield is much safer and easier to perform (can also lead to up-tilt pressure). Another option for countering shields is to empty hop, they shield expecting an aerial, then you get a free grab. If you notice they shield camp whenever you approach them, running past their shield and doing a pivot f-tilt or grab are also effective cross-ups.

Ahh, okay, thanks, that makes a lot more sense to me. Appreciate it.

I've been using a similar approach to yours. Short hop, dair leading to dash attack and fair. @ Flynch gave some great advice.

Yeah, I agree. Everyone here has been super nice and helpful, so thank you all for helping me with improving in the game.

 

[Conda]

I find Falco and Fox share some approach strategies. Dash has similar utility, even though Falco's is generally better they can both use it similarly. Same goes for bair and uair followups. Falco gets fair as a good gimp option, while Fox has nair instead (unless you want to help them recover, then by all means use fair ).

Falco can go for a down-b out of dash as an alternate dash attack (with custom 3 this is brutal), while Fox has the speed to get closer and put his own hurtbox into the fray and execute different options (dair, nair, etc).

Fox's options don't feel safe on shield, though, which has caused me to not be as 'aggressive' as Fox's speed makes me want to be. Any tips?

 

[SwiftWindStream]

Utilizing foxes grabs will gain you a large amount of momentum in the battle. Try to fake your opponent out by fake hopping and fake runs and when they come in for an attack, dodge roll and grab. This is a good dodging strategy I've learned with fox. Try to predict when character may use long range moves to use fox's shield to its full potential.

 

[Illuvial]

Fox has loads of approaches, that's what makes him so dangerous, you never know what to expect!

Full hop Dair
Nair
Retreating Fair
Dash attack
Pivot jab or Ftilt
Up Smash is still an amazing tool despite its nerfs

@ Conda I'm gonna point out that Smash is one of those games where almost nothing is safe on block if you don't space perfectly and pick one of the most optimal options for the situation. If you use that Dash Attack too early so that you're right next to the opponent after they block it, well damnit you're getting punished. What's that, didn't space that Nair or retreating Fair properly? Well that's a punish as well

The trick to learning what can and can't be punished is just learning MUs in general. Learn what certain characters can punish and can't punish. Not only that, but learning player tendencies can also help in knowing if a move is safe or not. Look at the video I linked below, and notice how Chibo throws out 4 or 5 Up Smashes without any fear. Notice how Will doesn't punish them at all. What this tells Chibo is that Will either doesn't know how to punish that option or is scared to punish that option, and noticing that meant that Chibo could throw that move out more since he knows that Will doesn't deal with it properly. Now granted Will does straighten up and punishes Chibo for the win at the end of that match, but the fact that it took 4 or 5 hugely punishable Up Smashes for Will to get that this is something he can punish is a big deal, and Chibo was right to abuse it (just not as much as he did).

Just practice MUs with the characters themselves and be on the lookout for how your opponent plays and reacts to various setups and moves, hope this helps!

http://youtu.be/W0TXVEZUDjs?t=7m5s

 

[Sir Tundra]

Nair Plane is still an amazing approaching tool despite the fact that this game is more ground based. It can also be used as a pop up against spot dodges. Dash attack is also a good approach tool in fact its even better thanks to the fact that it can lead to an uptilt juggle however if your opponent sees it coming then it can generally be risky and get you comboed after being grab so you wanna use it carefully. Bair is better as an approaching tool rather than an edge guarding tool.

@ Illuvial Not sure if I'd count up smash as an approaching tool. Maybe when the wii u version is out and dacus is actually possible. But as for now I just Use it as a punish when someone whiffs a grab or tries to dash attack me while I'm shielding when that opponent is at High percents.

 

[Illuvial]

Nair Plane is still an amazing approaching tool despite the fact that this game is more ground based. It can also be used as a pop up against spot dodges. Dash attack is also a good approach tool in fact its even better thanks to the fact that it can lead to an uptilt juggle however if your opponent sees it coming then it can generally be risky and get you comboed after being grab so you wanna use it carefully. Bair is better as an approaching tool rather than an edge guarding tool.

@ Illuvial Not sure if I'd count up smash as an approaching tool. Maybe when the wii u version is out and dacus is actually possible. But as for now I just Use it as a punish when someone whiffs a grab or tries to dash attack me while I'm shielding when that opponent is at High percents.

Yeah, I'm currently having my Smash friends flog me for my insolence, not sure why I put Up Smash lol

 

[MrPhox]

Get comfortable walking at people. You'll find that the opponent will often times feel pressured to act. Then you punish them with fox's quick reaction times.

The ftilt becomes your poke move, find that range so you can hit with the tip. If you can confidently walk up to the enemy and tilt/jab/shieldgrab them, then you start saving dash attack as a way to just prolong combos. Often times I will just wait people out with fox. Don't be too aggressive.

 

[RPK]

Full jumping is legit. If they follow you to punish you before the peak of your jump, you can airdodge and cancel the ending lag to make it lagless. If they don't then you have a number of options. One of the best and most under used options when it comes to approaching is fast fall empty jumps. Also rolling after a jump since rolling is legit in this game. You can use the empty fast fall full jump to cross them up and roll to the the other side again to cross them up. Also if they come up at you, you can easily jump away.



On the ground walking is incredibly op and should be abused more. If youre just rolling around, or running everywhere, take a break. Your circle pad will thank you for it. When the time comes for you to go in, you have an incredible amount of options from standing/walking that covers a great amount of distance quickly. His best range has always been mid range. Keeping them in reach while staying out of theirs.


Dash attack: This move will be a great and go to option because of it's lingering hitbox. It lasts a long time and can even catch rolls at the end of their invincibility.

Boost Pivot Grab: This move covers an amount of distance that is greater than any roll relatively quickly.

Pivot F-tilt: If you dash up to them and theyre still shielding, a pivot f-tilt at the back of their shield while you slide away. Its a great move, and it feels like it has as much lag as a whiffed first jab.

Cross up Roll: Because rolls are OP, they should be used, and abused. Cross up roll is great because it gets into them, AND behind them. Especially if they're shielding, then their options are even further limited. Also this lets Fox get in where CQC is incredibly dangerous.

Walking: Just walking up to them and staying right out of range of their fastest poke is also a great option to see how they react. If they throw out a normal and whiff, laugh at them and punish them with Fox's great closing tools. If they throw out a projectile to try and get you out of their space, reflector, and cross up roll, or sh nair/dair or whatever aerial you please. Again, Fox's best range is mid-range.

Silly ground approaches that shouldnt be used but will be posted anyways.

JC Illusion: This is the baller approach despite being incredibly dangerous, and easy to read/interrupt. The end has practically no lag, and people with no Fox experience will not know how to handle Fox just zipping back and forth on the stage making him practically uncatchable.

Firefox: THE TRUE BALLER APPROACH! If used on the ground and angled correctly it has no lag. Also people wont know what you're doing and will be absolutely confused thinking they can just shield it and that it has a lot of lag at the end. Spoilers, it has none.

 

[DavemanCozy]

Dash attack is awesome. Pops up opponents slightly up so you can follow them up with B-air or U-air.

N-air is also really good, as its knockback is favourable to chase the opponent in the ground.

Foxtrot -> jab / f-tilt works well too, Fox has some of the best dash start up and an increadibly fast jab (I believe it is 5 frames).

Dashing -> empty shorthop -> [land] Shield works if your opponent is throwing out ground moves to keep you away. Likewise, Foxtrot / walk up (Fox's max walking speed is still quite fast, 4th fastest in the game) -> Shield works if your opponent is throwing out short-hopped aerials. Obviously time your shield so it blocks something though, don't get hit when you're moving towards the opponent.

Pivot F-tilts / U-tilts and pivot grabs work if you have conditioned your opponent to dodge certain attacks or shield when you run up to them, respectively.

Key word here is conditioning. Fox has tons of options to approach with. However, they can all be reacted to and countered, some of them quite obvious. For example, empty hops put you at risk, since you're not doing anything to protect yourself when you short hop. On the other hand, say you were approaching your opponent with aerials, the match goes on, and they think you're going to go at them with a N-air or something similar. If your opponent expects you to do this, they might shield, in which case an empty short hop will be advantegous because you can just not throw a move, land and grab them.

Fox is a character that conditions the opponent to act a certain way, then uses another approach option to fool them. As long as you play the mental game you'll succeed.