doom dragon 105
Smash Lord
i recently picked up zamus and ive read the guides but i have no idea if i should approach or if i should then comes the question of how? help
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Approach ?
- Thread starter doom dragon 105
- Start date
James Sparrow
Smash Master
If you're losing you're somewhat forced to approach. You can do so with spaced forward b's, stun gun, dsmash. These moves allow you to be at a safe distance to avoid punishment, but apply pressure. If you're winning, I wouldn't suggest an aggressive playstyle, as ZSS's move set doesn't lend itself to that style too greatly (imo others may disagree). You want to be selectively aggressive, that is play aggressively when they open themselves up for attack, or are in a combo.
A simple answer to your question would be jump around and press side b a lot.
A simple answer to your question would be jump around and press side b a lot.
doom dragon 105
Smash Lord
lol thanks
Nitrix
Smash Ace
Zero Suit Samus should'nt really have to approach in most cases. Remember, you have the armour pieces AND your own ray-gun. The armour pieces will almost always force your oponents into approaching you right off the bat anyways. The only characters that should really ever make you approach repeatedly are the ones with projectiles that can out-spam yours. This includes Pit, Samus and other characters like that.
If this is the case, then either use your side-b, dash attack, or up-b into a kick. Those three usually work well for approaches.
If this is the case, then either use your side-b, dash attack, or up-b into a kick. Those three usually work well for approaches.
DeliciousCake
Smash Lord
Armor pieces don't last forever. Paralyzer has a very short range compared to most projectiles, and your opponent will not be forced to approach as they can just stand out of range. Also, I really don't understand your logic with approaching with an up-special. How are you supposed to approach with a vertical attack that has almost no horizontal hitboxes? And what kick? Dash attacks are easily shield-grabbed.
Your best bet is short-hopped paralyzer approaches and spaced f-specials. RAR-ing also works but isn't as effective because of ZSS' large short-hop.
doom dragon 105
Smash Lord
so basically i have 1 approach and i almost always have to
Sesshomuronay
Smash Lord
Short hop to B-side can be great for spacing and stuff. I usually approach with a dashing grab, dash attack or the 1st technique I listed involving the Side B.
FadedImage
Smash Journeyman
If short-hopped side-b's aren't doing the trick, you can also try throwing out u-airs as you land from a short hop, it auto-cancels into d-tilt or jab nicely. N-airs work well too, if you space them properly, you can't get shieldgrabbed (since the hit makes them slide back) unless they powershield. Otherwise, dashing grabs can work wonders, as long as you time them well and keep them on their toes.
Spacing nairs, bairs, Plasma Whip and Paralyzer all work well, as well as crossing up with aerials. Shield pressure with tilts and jabs can get a lot done for you. Dash attack is a way to follow up other attacks if your opponent makes a mistake in avoiding the attack.
Nitrix
Smash Ace
Armour pieces can be a big advantage. Paralyzer is a projectile. If the oponent doesn't have a projectile, then you can use your range to your advantage and make them approach.
I suggested the up-special as a way to mix-up the approach. If you run up and simply dash attack then you will obviously be caught. If you run up, and up-special you can easily land right above them with a high-priority kick. It works pretty well in terms of unpredictability.
Zero Suit Samus has a very fast dash attack. I would never go as far as saying don't approach with it.
DeliciousCake
Smash Lord
Up-special is not Flip Jump. Learn how to play ZSS before throwing out inaccurate statements.
You might as well just say this about any character.
Contradicts your previous statement. That is, unless you're trying to get people punished for it.
Yes, dash attack is a useful approach. I use it alot. In fact, I use it more than I should. That's why I'm telling people not to do it in order to prevent themselves from being punished.
stoopdklutz
Smash Journeyman
I love using the dash attack. It sets them up for a jab combo, or up or down tilts to juggle with.
Nitrix
Smash Ace
I made a typo and you are telling me that I don't know how to play ZSS?
That doesn't really make sense. If the dash attack works well, then tell people to use it. You should'nt purposefully deny useful info from the OP just because you use the Dash Attack too much.
DeliciousCake
Smash Lord
It's not a typo if you do it twice knowingly. You're in the wrong and you know it.
I made a typo and you are telling me that I don't know how to play ZSS?
It works well. It doesn't work well more than two or three times a match. And I'm not "denying information," I'm warning against overuse and predictability. Denying would be me saying "I know something important about dash attack but I'm not going to tell you."
Nitrix
Smash Ace
Dash attack works really well, I usually try to follow up with a simple jab combo. If your oponent doesn't really seem to know how to handle ZSS you could always just use the side-B as your main approach-weapon. The range usually catches them off-guard.
lol. Why so serious? If you want to continue trying to convince me that I know nothing, send a whisper. I don't want you to pollute this thread any further with your innacurate judgements.
DeliciousCake
Smash Lord
Plasma-whip is a logical and effective approach whether or not you opponent is familiar with ZSS. D-tilt is more effective for comboing than jab combo and isn't as easily shielded.
You obviously don't understand how forums work, nor do you understand who I am.
Whispers are in MMOs. And if you've played MMOs, I'm wondering why you don't find DC the nicest **** person you've ever met on the internet.
As a general rule, any character that can actually force you to approach (I'm thinking Falco and Lucario especially) is going to be a character you have a hard time with as ZSS.
As a general rule, any character that can actually force you to approach (I'm thinking Falco and Lucario especially) is going to be a character you have a hard time with as ZSS.
Nitrix
Smash Ace
I just meant private messages. I would think DC is a nice person, but I am not so receptive when I am told that I know nothing about ZSS because I confused the up-b with the down-b. That is harsh, no matter how you look at it.
Sorry, I assumed mods didn't support off-topic discussions. I guess I'm wrong.
DeliciousCake
Smash Lord
Ever go to General Brawl Discussion? Yeah.
Nitrix
Smash Ace
I was talking about this forum.
DeliciousCake
Smash Lord
We're self-moderated unless things get incredibly stupid.
Adapt
Smash Lord
It would be nice to have a mod capable of cleaning stuff up... imo we could use one local mod in each character forum
doom dragon 105
Smash Lord
lol i dont find anybody dash useful except for samus and kirby
d2Law89
Smash Journeyman
Mmm. ZSS isn't really a widely played character, so yes, spacing the Side-B is one of the most effective approaches and defensive maneuvers. However, unless you're fighting a rock, people are going to be able to read it easier than a Dr. Seuss book.
What I like to do, and often find effective is full hopping Side-B, blatantly missing, then FFing an aerial. Of course, you have to be very particular about spacing, as always.
What I like to do, and often find effective is full hopping Side-B, blatantly missing, then FFing an aerial. Of course, you have to be very particular about spacing, as always.
3GOD
Smash Ace
I'm going to investigate this more, but at one point I tried to increase the safety of the dash attack by waiting until I was right on top of the opponent to use it. I tested against a shielding Marth, and if you time it so that you dash attack right as you run into him, you can move past him before he can shield grab you.
The reason I want to investigate more is that Marth leans forward for his grab, so it might only work on certain characters with similar grab lunges. Other characters who stand still and grab might be able to grab the dash attack no matter how late you wait to initiate it.
Obviously, they could probably still shield drop and punish (Utilt might be fast enough to stop that), but most people are so used to shield grabbing dash attacks that it would probably provide a good opening.
EDIT: Checked this out a little more...
ZSS can actually initiate a dash attack such that it hits her opponent on the back side of his/her shield.
Dash Attack:
Total: 31 frames
First hits on frame 6
Shield Hit Lag: 7
Shield Stun: 9
Advantage: -23
The frame advantage (or disadvantage as the case is for this and most moves in Brawl) is not good, but ZSS's dash attack carries her a good distance away from the opponents, and they will have to drop their shields/jump from shields before they can counter in any way. I think very few aerials will be able to reach her because of the distance. A shield drop takes 9 frames I think (I need to make sure on this), so that leaves them 14 frames to cover the distance and attack...
To sum up, it's a tough call on the safety of this tactic, but it's probably useful and reasonably safe.
The reason I want to investigate more is that Marth leans forward for his grab, so it might only work on certain characters with similar grab lunges. Other characters who stand still and grab might be able to grab the dash attack no matter how late you wait to initiate it.
Obviously, they could probably still shield drop and punish (Utilt might be fast enough to stop that), but most people are so used to shield grabbing dash attacks that it would probably provide a good opening.
EDIT: Checked this out a little more...
ZSS can actually initiate a dash attack such that it hits her opponent on the back side of his/her shield.
Dash Attack:
Total: 31 frames
First hits on frame 6
Shield Hit Lag: 7
Shield Stun: 9
Advantage: -23
The frame advantage (or disadvantage as the case is for this and most moves in Brawl) is not good, but ZSS's dash attack carries her a good distance away from the opponents, and they will have to drop their shields/jump from shields before they can counter in any way. I think very few aerials will be able to reach her because of the distance. A shield drop takes 9 frames I think (I need to make sure on this), so that leaves them 14 frames to cover the distance and attack...
To sum up, it's a tough call on the safety of this tactic, but it's probably useful and reasonably safe.
Well, if you're trying to hit them with it, then yes, they will be able to do something about it, but hitting with Plasma Whip is something of a pleasant surprise for a Zamus, rather than a goal. Anyone who only ever tries to hit with Plasma Whip is missing the picture.
James Sparrow
Smash Master
That's a really good way of putting it.
25%Cotton
Smash Ace
uh... a lot of the time i'll hold back. usually direct attacking when unprompted is like.... terrible for zamus. occasional dash attack > utilt is nice... but it's easy to punish... and i think the utilt can sometimes be powershielded (so instead i will do a grab... only if i'm certain they will shield, though).
mostly, don't actually approach. i mean, sure, run up to them... here are some options.
if you're close enough for them to hit:
1. shield... only if they're attacking you...
2. grab ... don't do this too much. use zamus's grab rarely.
3. dash attack > something
4. i like to do roll-around + dtilt, but i don't know if this is actually good at all...
5. ftilt or dtilt. they're fast... but only use them if your opponent is doing a slow move, being stupid, or shielding (yay shield pressure)...
if you're NOT close enough for them to hit:
1. sometimes i flip jump bait someone. they like to chase you when you do this, expecting you to use the kick. don't use the kick (you can use it once or twice later on in the match
). instead, either tilt for shield pressure (or an attack, if it works out like that) or short hop a sideb.
2. simply do a slow shorthopped backflip (as in a jump backwards, you do a cool backflip) and use sideb. i really love using zamus's backflips. it looks so cool!! XD anyway, you can actually backflip and move a bit FORWARD, but it's risky...
3. uncharged paralyzer. only use charged if you're facing a not-sonic who is either distant or doing some laggy attack that's going to miss. follow this with whatever, just do it QUICK.
4. stand there. you're so close, maybe you'll get THEM to approach. if you see this coming pretty early, you may be able to get in a dsmash chain.
this of course isn't every option, and not all of them are necessarily that GREAT... just know that zamus is all about keeping the perfect space from an opponent. all of her attacks seem to be perfectly built to complement the range of sideb. you just need to try to maintain that distance. make your opponent know this by emphasizing it throughout the match, and you can pretty easily trick them and breach this distance for her faster attacks.
mostly, don't actually approach. i mean, sure, run up to them... here are some options.
if you're close enough for them to hit:
1. shield... only if they're attacking you...
2. grab ... don't do this too much. use zamus's grab rarely.
3. dash attack > something
4. i like to do roll-around + dtilt, but i don't know if this is actually good at all...
5. ftilt or dtilt. they're fast... but only use them if your opponent is doing a slow move, being stupid, or shielding (yay shield pressure)...
if you're NOT close enough for them to hit:
1. sometimes i flip jump bait someone. they like to chase you when you do this, expecting you to use the kick. don't use the kick (you can use it once or twice later on in the match
). instead, either tilt for shield pressure (or an attack, if it works out like that) or short hop a sideb.2. simply do a slow shorthopped backflip (as in a jump backwards, you do a cool backflip
) and use sideb. i really love using zamus's backflips. it looks so cool!! XD anyway, you can actually backflip and move a bit FORWARD, but it's risky...3. uncharged paralyzer. only use charged if you're facing a not-sonic who is either distant or doing some laggy attack that's going to miss. follow this with whatever, just do it QUICK.
4. stand there. you're so close, maybe you'll get THEM to approach
. if you see this coming pretty early, you may be able to get in a dsmash chain.this of course isn't every option, and not all of them are necessarily that GREAT... just know that zamus is all about keeping the perfect space from an opponent. all of her attacks seem to be perfectly built to complement the range of sideb. you just need to try to maintain that distance. make your opponent know this by emphasizing it throughout the match, and you can pretty easily trick them and breach this distance for her faster attacks.
Orichalcum
Smash Journeyman
You dont approach you space them with >b or pewpew. Its allways better to get approached as ZSS. And if you feel the need to dash attack do it when the enemy is not waiting for you or unable to shield it. The dash attack is very good despite the fact that it gets shield grabbed 90% of times. It links pretty well to other moves, so just dont use it when you are unsure to use it, or just dont use it all.
e: oh another good thing would be running shield cancel to uptilt or dsmash, depending on what you shield
e: oh another good thing would be running shield cancel to uptilt or dsmash, depending on what you shield