Apparently Ness ***** Low Tier

[Giggidax]

this word is being used alot. i would feel left out if i didnt say it as well.

RAAAAPEE
omfg RAPEZies

ness is ok but i dont like him O_O

 

[Wave⁂]

Feels good, doesn't it?

 

[SLH]

link owns all other low tier characters, without question. if anyone deserves top low tier it's him and not ness -_-

 

[Endless Nightmares]

I don't think Link owns G&W, Pikachu, Zelda, Luigi, or YLink

 

[KevinM]

Still saying that Ness does not **** bowser, you have not backed up any physical evidence to prove that

 

[SLH]

I don't think Link owns G&W, Pikachu, Zelda, Luigi, or YLink

he does. link vs. ylink is evenish, but that's it really

 

[Wave⁂]

Still saying that Ness does not **** bowser, you have not backed up any physical evidence to prove that

The flaw in your argument is that it is technically impossible to prove anything in Smash. However, I will attempt to prove your little argument wrong.

What does Bowser have against Ness? Let's count:
Fortress
Ftilt
Edgeguard
Juggling against someone who cant DI
Fair
Fine, I'll add taunt...

Well, if anyone can add any, feel free.

What does Ness have against Bowser?

Juggling
Bat
Fair
Bair
(Taunt)
Even more fair because it is used so much
YYG
Sweetspotting the ledge
Faster
better WD
More aerial movement
NAIR I can't believe I forgot that...

Well, not counting the taunt, i believe Ness comes out on TOP.

 

[KevinM]

Although i will give you the fact that Ness might have better Aerials, bowser can usually slap him away with one move and then begin an approach of his own with much better killabilty.. idk i would put the Ness Bowser match-up at even and maybe slightly in either/or's favor.

Boozer can sweetspot the ledge too

and he's so cute when he taunts how can you take our taunt away

 

[The_NZA]

I'm sorry but Ness's fair stuffs anything and everything bowser has, and thats just it.

 

[Wave⁂]

If you "slap him away," then he techs, then begins another cycle.

 

[thesage]

Fair spam that match. I got a Bowser player (that was much much much better than me skillwise), I think it was Chillin but I'm not sure, down to one stock. It was my first major tourney. I wasn't l-cancelling all the time back then and I still did pretty good. Ness beats Bowser, badly.

The only problems he has in low tier are GandW. Luigi has a slight advantage. Link, and ylink are even. I'm not sure about pikachu though...

 

[The_NZA]

I dont think luigi has an advantage. If you know how to handle him off the stage hes really really really easy...or i might just be above my luigi apponents in skills.

 

[Timotee]

If you guys insist on the bowser vs. ness discussion, then I should add that Gimpy told me you can chain pk fire on bowser. Not sure how good it is, but something to be in the equation.

NZA, the top luigis will be using >B and \/B to mix up their recoveries, making that part much more difficult. Luigi is not a match to be taken lightly, I think he's got the edge.

 

[The_NZA]

heres the thing. I've never seen down B used effectively by luigi, and secondly, the forward b is exactly why its easy. Luigi has a hard as hell time sweetspotting and can almost always be batted when he tries. Also, this means he can only get to stages while being exactly next to them...making it even easier. There are so many options against a luigi its almost unfair. My favorite is the pkflash, cause in the unlikely case they try to forward B ONTO the stage, you can nail them 99% of the time. Additionally it gets them when they try to up B to the edge. Its like edgeguarding a much easier marth.

 

[Timotee]

But if you've never fought a luigi that can use all options in recovery well, you don't really have the experience to make a judgement call on the character match-up. The ones that do use it have way more recovery power than without. Most of the good luigis, even the ones that don't use \/b, will be saving their jump for the end of the recovery to make sweetspots, or offensive recoveries, that much easier.

I wouldn't risk the pk flash edgeguard myself, because that'd leave you nice and open for a misfire if they're going to be that low. Just my opinion on it. I'd go into more depth, but I feel there's a reason Luigi can win a full blown tourney or two.

 

[The_NZA]

well tim, while you bring up a valid point, in my experience the pkflash can get rid of those luigis who still hold out their jump till later. The fact of the matter is the jump will always come out 9/10 times AT the side of the stage, as thats almost the only point where their horizontal movement CAN end...when they hug the stage. At that point as long as you time your pkflash appropriately, they cant avoid it as a projectile.

 

[thesage]

I always liked using pkt and hitting them away from the stage. It really messes up their recovery. Down b is very useful for Luigi, but if he hasn't stored one on the ground, he can't do it.

 

[KevinM]

I don't know perhaps the Ness i play isn't that good, haha you can chain PK fires on bowser though? That kinda makes me laugh and cry at the same time... imagine getting a bunch of damage straight out of Ness' worst B move... that haha

 

[Scrubs]

I don't know why the discussion is focussed on Bowser and Zelda. Ness has a lot more to worry about in low tier than those 2. Don't get me wrong Ness is one of the better low tier characters but there are a few above him.

DK has an pretty big advantage over him. DK out ranges Ness by miles, he can combo just as well as Ness can with Uair but has more options to finish the combo off. If DK spaces his Bair well Ness will never get a grab. Bair also destroys Ness's recovery.

Link has a big advantage over Ness for obvious reasons. Range + Projectiles + Power. Sex kick is great for edgeguarding against Ness.

Pikachu is just as fast as Ness is but can't combo as well. However Iron Tail kills Ness at about 80% without DI. Plus Pikachu has one of the best recoveries out of the low tier characters. It is quite hard for Ness to edgeguard him effectively. Without putting himself at risk.

Luigi is definitely the best low tier charcter and owns Ness. I don't think the reasons need to be listed.

I reckon the low tier list would look something like this

Top Tier

Luigi
Link

High Tier

DK
Yoshi
Roy
Pikachu

Mid Tier

Y.Link
Zelda
Ness
G&W
Bowser

Low Tier

Kirby
Pichu
Mewtwo

 

[The_NZA]

Disagree through and through. Ness kills dk, simply because ness's odd weight makes him less vulnerable to most of Dk's combos. Second of all, Ness can stuff anything dk has with his fair. I know i say that a lot, but the fact is if a character has less range than ness's fair, he's screwed pretty bad. Thats why ness kills roy. Thats why he kills dk. Thats why he kills bowser.

Against pikachu you bring up valid points nad i dont know how to argue them. I haven't played any good pikachu players.

adn against luigi...well i've already expressed my opinions but honestly. Play a good luigi, knock him off the level and ask him to recover, and do one of two things. Pk flash, or, bat to hit the sweetspot of the edge.

If you dont get him, i'd be surprised.

 

[ArcNatural]

Any smart luigi player will >B under the stage, and second jump to sweetspot upB. As long as they sweetspot the upB you can't hit them with the bat. So if your hitting them with the bat when they upB, chances are they didn't sweetspot correctly. Both Ness and Luigi's recoveries are about even, in that they both can be *****. IMO Luigi has a better ground and aerial game than Ness so that's where the true matchup is. Ness vs. Luigi isn't as simple as throw them off edgegaurd. You need to consider the rest of the matchup.

 

[thesage]

I think that Luigi's air game < Ness's air game, but his ground game > Ness' ground game.

 

[KevinM]

Hey hey don't bash Scrubs tier list, it has boozer at mid tier.. ok someone revise it now and keep making boozer climb the list

 

[Wave⁂]

Why can't we bash his list?

~~

Anyways, if Luigi tries to sweetspot the ledge, simply drop down and use a sourspotted nair against his ^B.